Project M Social Thread

[Grim Tuesday]

...Who? Never seen him around.

He pretty much joined to get a copy of P:M and then left. He didn't like it.

If I'm getting mixed up with someone else... I'm pretty sure Timic has it as well?

 

[Ulevo]

Instead, let's discuss this video showcasing the new metaknight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39vRDt-pm5o


This includes the new MK "tip system" on his moveset.

This just made my day. Best news I've had Smash related all week long. Fantastic stuff.

I'm going out on a limb and assuming the "tip system" is akin to Marths' sword?

EDIT: Never mind, went back a page and read. Awesome stuff.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I would say he's more like a small Roy with wings and a mask, rather than a Marth with those, with the middle doing more damage, d-tilt popping them up, and falling fast and stuff.

 

[Darkshooter]

^So in basic English, Roy and Kirby rolled into one?

Spoiler

Heres hoping the PAL install works as easy as the NTSC

 

[FireBall Stars]

I would say that the tipper and center of Galaxia works very differently and more complexily than Marth's and Roy's swords.

There's no real sweetspot, both types do something different, there's no, "this is better than this" thing.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Well, technically Marth's tips and nontips are used for different purposes as well, but not to extent that MK's are.

Roy's revamp will also make his tips somewhat useful.

 

[FireBall Stars]

^^Well, technically Marth's tips and nontips are used for different purposes as well, but not to extent that MK's are.

Roy's revamp will also make his tips somewhat useful.

Yes, I agree.

 

[cubaisdeath]

I wish you guys would stop talking about roy and making it sound like he'll be good =(

I like him the way he is lol

 

[Strong Badam]

So yeah I heard that you *****es were talkin about MetaKnight, so I figured I'd showcase how MK is in Melee. Watch the video Shanus posted to see how we balanced him out in Project M.
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[TryHardFalcon]

Wow this makes sense... Auto L-cancel will automatically get rid of the landing detection problem also I don't know why people are saying this will ruin the technical aspect of the game because L-canceling is one of the easiest techniques there is...

 

[shanus]

Wow this makes sense... Auto L-cancel will automatically get rid of the landing detection problem also I don't know why people are saying this will ruin the technical aspect of the game because L-canceling is one of the easiest techniques there is...

Landing detection is significantly more impactful than that, so no.

You know those short lasers from falco in melee. Ganons dair through platforms? Samus's low missile cancels? etc etc

All of those enabled by landing detection. Sorry but your argument is wrong on so many levels.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

rPSI Edit: As of 9/19/10, I will infract you if you bring up Manual L-Canceling vs. Automatic L-Canceling. >:U

<I am so disappoint.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Emphasis on the MOTHE****ING >:U face!

>:U

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Emphasis on the MOTHE****ING >:U face!

>:U

 

[GP&B]

I lol'd.

Spoiler

Yeah, seriously? ALR won't fix all of that.

 

[FireBall Stars]

obvious troll is obvious

 

[ManEg]

I just figured out that rPSI = RocketPSIence...>:U

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I just figured out that rPSI = RocketPSIence...>:U

 

[Sneak8288]

I know you guys are all in love with melee and it's tiers and all that wonderful stuff -.-' But why not make A NEW tier list. Or rather why not GET RID OF the tier list all-together? You're trying to make all the characters viable right? Trying to make them as BALANCED as possible right? Is the goal of project M to make it so all the old hardcore melee players want to play this over melee so they're trying to not make them hate it? Or are they actually trying to make something new that would bring some old love to a newer version of the game? (Newer not necessarily needing to mean better)

because then you will have brawl+

 

[GP&B]

because then you will have brawl+

Honestly, when I saw Brawl+ in his signature, it made me think that's what he wanted.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Zelgadis should have grabbed MK toward the end instead of Dsmash.

Down Smash still seems a bit..... I can't think of the word now.....
but other than that, looks excellent and better balanced.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Alright, here are my opinions on what Pichu: M should have. I made this without access to hit-box data, I only had SDM's frame data and my own knowledge as a resource, so a few parts might be a bit wrong. These should be considered seperate ideas, not a package. It is entirely fine to incorporate one idea and disregard another, the character would still work.

Jab:
- Hits on frames 2-3.
- Slightly dis-jointed hit-box in front of Pichu.
• Charged: Chargeable on frame 3. Creates small electric jolt in front of Pichu (similar in animation/size to forward smash). Deals 0.5% recoil damage, 1 frame of hit-stun and no extra damage or knockback.
• Uses: Jab resetting and locking.

Dash Attack:
- 37 frames total.
- IASA frames 32-36.
- Hit-box extends slightly further in front of Pichu.
- Knocks opponent up (similar to Melee Fox’s dash attack).
• Charged: Chargeable on frames 14-16. Knocks opponent down. Deals 2% recoil damage and 2% extra damage.
• Uses: Combo starting, starting tech-chases and tech-chasing.

Ledge Attack (<100%):
• Charged: Chargeable on frames 21-24. Knocks opponent down. Deals 1% recoil damage and no extra damage.
• Uses: Recovering from the ledge and starting tech-chases.

Ledge Attack (>100%):
• Charged: Chargeable on frames 54-59. Knocks opponent down. Deals 1% recoil damage and no extra damage.
• Uses: Recovering from the ledge and starting tech-chases.

Floor Attack:
• Charged: Knocks opponent down. Deals 1% recoil damage and no extra damage.
• Uses: Recovering from the floor and starting tech-chases.

Forward Tilt:
- High priority.
- Slightly dis-jointed hit-box in front of Pichu.
- Angleable
• Charged: Chargeable on frames 9,-11. Semi-spikes. Deals 2% recoil damage an no extra damage.
• Uses: Edge-guarding and spacing.

Down Tilt:
- Hits on frames 5-9.
- Hit-box on the tip of the tail is slightly larger.
• Charged: Pulls the opponent in to Pichu. Deals 1% recoil damage and no extra damage.
• Uses: Comboing and Spacing.

Up Tilt:
- Hits on frames 5-14.
- Hit-box on the tip of the tail is slightly larger.
• Charged: Pulls the opponent in to Pichu. Deals 1% recoil damage and no extra damage.
• Uses: Comboing and Juggling.

Up Smash:
- Hits on frames 7-11.
- Hit-box extends slightly further horizontally to both sides.
- Knockback/hit-stun similar to Dr. Mario’s up smash at low-mid percents.
• Charged: Melee knockback. Deals 1.5% recoil damage and no extra damage.
• Uses: Juggling, starting combos and KO’ing.

Down Smash:
- Has 39 frames total.
- Hit-box extends slightly further horizontally to both sides.
• Charged: Has 6 hit-boxes (on frames 6-7, 9-10, 12-13, 15-16, 18-19 and 21-22) which trap opponents similarly to Pikachu's down smash. Deals 0.5% recoil per hit-box, 'B' can be released at any time to deliver the last hit of non-electrified D-Smash (automatically delivers this hit on frame 24 if 'B' is not released) and each hit-box deals 2% damage.
• Uses: Gimping, KO’ing and damage racking.

Forward Smash:
- Has no hit-box.
- Deals no recoil damage, damage, stun or knockback.
• Charged: Performs Melee version of the move.
• Uses: Mind-gaming and KO’ing.

Neutral Air:
- Slightly larger hit-box.
• Charged: Increases range greatly and decreases knockback. Deals 1% recoil damage and 1% extra damage.
• Uses: Aerial spacing, approaching, retreating, comboing and off-stage gimping.

Forward Air:
- Slightly larger hit-box.
- Only hits once, similar to Diddy Kong’s fair in Brawl.
• Charged: Performs Melee version of the move.
• Uses: Comboing, aerial spacing and off-stage gimping.

Up Air:
• Charged: Chargeable on frames 4 and 5. Has small, spiking hit-box on the very tip of the tail. Deals 2% recoil damage and 3% extra damage.
• Uses: Comboing, juggling, combo finishing and off-stage gimping.

Down Air:
- Hits on frames 6-26.
- Multi-hit drill (similar to Fox’s down air).
• Charged: Performs Melee version of the move.
• Uses: Approaching, comboing and off-stage gimping.

Back Air:
- Increases air speed.
• Charged: Multi-hit horizontal drill (similar to Charged Fair). Deals 4% recoil damage and no extra damage.
• Uses: Recovering, comboing, off-stage gimping and aerial spacing.

Thunder Jolt:
- Comes out on frame 15.
- Projectile lasts 110 frames.
• Uses: Camping, approaching and retreating.

Skull Bash:
- Deals no recoil damage.
- Charges faster.
- Charge can be held.
• Uses: Recovering, mind-gaming and lag punishing.

Agility:
- Deals no recoil damage.
- Can jump out of landing lag animation (Agility Cancelling/ACing/Aceing)
- Still has 1 frame of 'landfallspeciallag' at the very end of the move, allowing for Perfect Agility landing and dashing.
- Faster start-up.
• Uses: Recovering, mind-games and movement.

Thunder:
- Aerial Thunder is jump-cancellable on frame 20.
• Uses: Edge-guarding, walling and KO’ing.

Grab:
- Grab-box extends slightly behind Pichu.
• Uses: Starting combos.

Pummel:
• Charged: Deals 0.5% recoil damage and 2% extra damage.
• Uses: Damage racking.

Forward Throw:
- Knocks opponent upward instead of downward.
• Charged: Performs Melee version of the move.
• Uses: Tech-chasing and starting combos.

Up Throw:
• Charged: Extra, large, vertical knock-back and hit-stun. Deals 1% recoil damage and 2% extra damage.
• Uses: Chain-throwing, starting combos and setting up for KOs.

Down Throw:
• Charged: Knocks opponent to the ground. Deals 1% recoil damage and 1% extra damage.
• Uses: Chain-grabbing, tech-chasing, starting combos and setting up for KOs.

Back Throw:
• Charged: Increases hit-stun. Deals 1% recoil damage and 1% extra damage.
• Uses: Gimping and setting up for edge-guarding.

Weight: Equal with Melee (NTSC) Kirby.

Falling Speed: Equal with Melee Ganondorf.

Fast Falling Speed: Equal with Melee Roy.

Walking Speed: Equal with Melee Pikachu and Pichu.

Dash Speed: Equal with Melee Marth.

Air Speed: Equal with Melee Dr. Mario.

Traction: Equal with Melee Donkey Kong.


CHARGING:
Charging is a new mechanic that I R MarF came up with, that allows Pichu to hold down 'B' during any of his normal moves to give them a different effect.

Charged moves will deal recoil damage (the exact amount is dependent on the move) but come with several benefits, allowing Pichu players to decide between a safer play-style, a play-style with more options, or anything in-between.

You can Charge seperate parts of the move by releasing 'B' on any frame you don't want charged, and pressing it on any frames you do want it charged. Some attacks can only be electrified on certain frames (you don't need to press it on these specific frames, just holding it before hand and waiting will still work).

Charged moves would have an electrical graphic around them to designate them as being charged.

Neutral B and Down B have no un-charged state and do not require holding down the 'B' button.

 

[Spelt]

So ... he'd only have one A move that doesn't deal recoil?

lol.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

So ... he'd only have one A move that doesn't deal recoil?

lol.

Good job at reading the whole post.

EDIT: Don't worry, I updated my post for you. Look at the very bottom.

 

[Ganoncide]

Pichu should have additional hitstun

 

[Impp]

I'm really looking forward to this hack. I'm going to buy a copy of Brawl when this thing gets completed. If you need any suggestions for Zelda, I can help you out. I main Zelda in melee and do pretty well.

 

[Ganoncide]

I'm really looking forward to this hack. I'm going to buy a copy of Brawl when this thing gets completed. If you need any suggestions for Zelda, I can help you out. I main Zelda in melee and do pretty well.

Project M is the reason to buy brawl :D

 

[JOE!]

2 questions:

1) if Pichu is gonna be implemented, WHY are you keeping the recoil? o_O

2) just out of curiosity, why was manual L canceling decided over just negating the lag of aerial moves on the acharacters that benifit most from l canceling?

 

[Shadic]

1) if Pichu is gonna be implemented, WHY are you keeping the recoil? o_O

It's a defining character trait that we can balance around.

2) just out of curiosity, why was manual L canceling decided over just negating the lag of aerial moves on the acharacters that benifit most from l canceling?

rPSI Edit: As of 9/19/10, I will infract you if you bring up Manual L-Canceling vs. Automatic L-Canceling. >:U

 

[Grim Tuesday]

2 questions:

1) if Pichu is gonna be implemented, WHY are you keeping the recoil? o_O

What Shadic said. It is part of the character.

 

[Strong Badam]

also 2 things
1. it is not 100% whether or not Pichu will be included in Project M yet. no, Dantarion, even though we love you, we still have to decide that as a group.
2. surprisingly enough, a character whose inclusion isn't decided doesn't have a finalized design. he could lack recoil in project m, or he could have twice the amount of recoil. who ****ing knows? that's right! no one!

 

[DtJ Jungle]

thats the fun~

 

[DtJ Composer]

imad if pichu gets in and doc doesn't :ma d:

 

[Shadic]

imad if pichu gets in and doc doesn't :ma d:

Get mad, then.

 

[JOE!]

sheesh, backlash

anyways, just curious how you're not gonna make him garbage competitivley with him being the lightst char who also hurts itself....


and im not starting an argument, i just wanna know why put in manual L-canceling inseatd of just going in and say, getting rid of some frames off of (Ganon)'s aerials when he will be 100% L-canceling the anyways?

 

[Perfect Chaos]

It has been said by multiple PMBRoomers (including myself) that Pichu WILL BE ADDED in PM.
Sorry to destroy your hopes and dreams.

1. it is not 100% whether or not Pichu will be included in Project M yet. no, Dantarion, even though we love you, we still have to decide that as a group.

So which is it... (I guess I'll just believe the latter for now.)

 

[[TSON]]

It's likely. But no, it's not official.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

sheesh, backlash

anyways, just curious how you're not gonna make him garbage competitivley with him being the lightst char who also hurts itself....

This is how:

Alright, here are my opinions on what Pichu: M should have. I made this without access to hit-box data, I only had SDM's frame data and my own knowledge as a resource, so a few parts might be a bit wrong. These should be considered seperate ideas, not a package. It is entirely fine to incorporate one idea and disregard another, the character would still work.

• Jab
-Hits on frames 2-3.
- Electrified (frame 3 only): Release a small electric shock in front of Pichu. Electrified jab deals 0.5% recoil, has 1 frame of stun, is treated as a projectile with transcendent priority and deals no extra damage or knockback.
-Disjointed hit-box in front of Pichu.
REASON: Accentuates it's strengths (lock ability) and slightly improves it's weakness (poor range).

• F-tilt
- Electrified (frames 9, 10 and/or 11 only): Electrified F-Tilt deals 2% recoil, has set knockback similar to that of Reflector (able to semi-spike) and deals no extra damage.
-Disjointed hit-box in front of Pichu.
REASON: Gives Pichu a decent GTFO move outside of Nair.

• D-Tilt
-Hits on frames 5-9.
- Electrified : Electrified D-tilt deals 1% recoil, has a vacuum effect similar to Dr. Mario's D-tilt, but much weaker, and deals no extra damage.
-Hit-box on tail tip is larger.
REASON: Just a slight buff to combo ability.

• U-Tilt
-Hits on frames 5-14.
-Electrified (frames 12, 13 and/or 14 only): Electrified U-Tilt deals 1% recoil, has a vacuum effect similar to Dr. Mario's D-Tilt, but much weaker, and deals no extra damage.
-Hit-box on tail tip is larger.
REASON: Again, slight buff to combo ability.

• U-Smash
-Hits on frames 7-11.
-Hit-box extends further horizontally to both sides (not disjointed).
REASON: Slight buff to kill ability.

• D-Smash
-Has 39 frames total.
-Electrified: Electrified D-Smash has 6 hit-boxes (on frames 6-7, 9-10, 12-13, 15-16, 18-19 and 21-22) which trap opponents similar to Pikachu's down smash, deals 0.5% recoil per hit-box, 'B' can be released at any time to deliver the last hit of non-electrified D-Smash (automatically delivers this hit on frame 24 if 'B' is not released) and each hit-box deals 2% damage.
-Hit-box extends further horizontally to both sides (not disjointed).
REASON: Makes Dsmash useful.

• F-Smash
-Electrified: Perform Melee version of move.
Non Electrified: Pichu performs animation but deals no recoil, damage or knockback.
REASON: Allows Pichu to actually kill with it through feinting mind-games and de-electrifying it during the attack to mess with the opponent's DI (the main thing that ruined this move).

• Dash Attack
-37 frames total and is IASA frame 32.
- Electrified: (frames 14, 15 and/or 16 only): Electrified Dash Attack knocks opponent into the air (similar to Fox's dash attack), deals 2% recoil damage, and deals an extra 2% damage.
- Hit-box extends further in-front (not dis-jointed).
REASON: Lets Pichu reliably finish combos with it and possibly start a juggle.

• N-Air
-Electrified: Electrified N-Air deals 1% recoil, deals 1% damage and has 0 knockback.
-Larger hit-box.
REASON: Gives him a gimping tool and adds to combo ability.

• F-Air
-Electrified: Perform Melee version of move.
-Non Electrified: Acts like a horizontal drill (similar to most character's F-Air in Smash 64 like Fox and Luigi).
-Larger hit-box.
REASON: Nice all purpose multi-hit attack.

• U-Air
-Electrified (frames 4 and/or 5 only): Electrified U-Air deals 2% recoil, has small spiking hit-box on the very tip of tail [actual spike, not semi-spike like Pikachu (however, it does have the same angle as Pikachu's semi-spike U-Air)] and deals no extra damage.
REASON: Gives Pichu a new kill move and combo finisher.

• D-Air
-Hits on frames 6 to 26.
-Electrified: Perform Melee (electrified) version of move.
-Non Electrified: Acts like a Drill (similar to Fox's/Falco's/Jigglypuff's/etc...'s D-Air).
REASON: Buff to combo ability with the drill and gives another approach option.

• B-Air
-Electrified: Electrified B-Air acts the same as electrified (Melee) Fair and deals 4% recoil.
REASON: Lets you combo when opponent is behind you instead of having to finish the combo right then and there.

• Thunder Jolt
-Comes out frame 15 and projectile lasts 110 frames.
-Transcendent priority.
REASON: Just an overall buff.

• Skull Bash
-Deals no recoil damage.
REASON: Lets Pichu recovery without damaging himself.

• Agility
-Deals no recoil damage.
-Can be cancelled exactly like Pikachu's Quick-Attack Cancel (QAC).
-Still has 1 frame of 'landfallspeciallag' at the very end of the move, allowing for Perfect Agility landing and dashing.
REASON: Again, recovery without damage. Also makes it a great movement tool because of QAC and Perfect Agility.

• Thunder
-Aerial Thunder is jump-cancellable on frame 20.
REASON: Lets Pichu better combo from Thunder and keep the opponent in the air.

• Grab
-Grab-box extends behind Pichu.
REASON: Slight buff, Pichu often ends up facing away from the opponent right next to them and has few tools to hit them.

• All Throws
-If 'B' is held down, electrify move. Electrified throws deal a small amount of extra damage while Pichu is throwing (no damage post-release) and deal 1% recoil.
REASON: Simple buff for extra damage.

• Falling Speed
-Around the same speed as Melee Ganondorf.
REASON: Lets him SHFFL better.

• Weight
-Around the same as Melee, PAL Fox.
REASON: Makes him slightly more difficult to kill.

• Ledge and Get-Up Attacks
-Electrified: Electrified get-up attacks deal extra horizontal knockback and 1% recoil.
REASON: Another GTFO move to compensate for how easy Pichu is to tech chase.

ELECTRIFY MECHANIC DESCRIPTION:
Any attack that can be 'electrified' (Jab, Tilts, Dash Attack, Aerials, Fsmash, Dsmash, Throws, Get-Up Attacks and Ledge Attacks) will be non-electrified by defauly. You can electrify the above moves by pressing or holding the Special Move button while performing them.

You can electrify seperate parts of the move by releasing 'B' on any frame you don't want electrified, and pressing it on any frames you do want it electrified. Some attacks can only be electrified on certain frames (you don't need to press it on these specific frames, just holding it before hand and waiting will still work).

Electrifying deals re-coil damage (different for each move) and increases the size of the hit-box of the attack slightly.

FOR SPELT: YOU DON'T HAVE TO ELECTRIFY MOVES AND IF THE MOVE ISN'T ELECTRIFIED IT DOESN'T DEAL RECOIL.

I'm quite disappointed by the lack of responses to that post.

EDIT: Also, I'm sick of n00bs citing the recoil as a reason why Pichu is terrible. Yes, it is bad, but no where near as bad as everyone thinks. If I am playing aggressively, I only really do about 60% damage to myself in game.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

But 60% could be one whole stock loss for Pichu, considering how light he is.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

But 60% could be one whole stock loss for Pichu, considering how light he is.

60% can be (and often is) a whole stock for anyone, given the potency of edge-guarding.