Project M Social Thread

[Plum]

I hate to sound annoying but how many melee characters are finished (or can be finished with perfect melee physics) at this point?

Well as of right now a lot of character work is probably more or less obsolete. Not to say that it was a waste of time to try to get physics and moves close to what they were in Melee; there have been a lot of pros giving this a try and their opinion would have been very different if things weren't at least as close as we could get them through human processes.

But we now have basically all the data on Melee characters that you could ever want thanks to the work of Magus who got them for us, and guys like Dantarion who translated the data into something understandable.
It seems that KB values and stuff translate directly into Brawl (I believe Shell said he's pretty sure they do) but even if they don't directly it is just a matter of finding the conversion for the two games. From that point it is literally just taking all the Melee data and moving it over to PM.

So right now there are characters that are very playable (Falco, Sheik, Mario, etc.) but not quite perfect because it would just be very hard to get everything just right. Now though... Things are going to be sexy.

 

[Crispy4001]

Well as of right now a lot of character work is probably more or less obsolete. Not to say that it was a waste of time to try to get physics and moves close to what they were in Melee; there have been a lot of pros giving this a try and their opinion would have been very different if things weren't at least as close as we could get them through human processes.

But we now have basically all the data on Melee characters ... seems that KB values and stuff translate directly into Brawl (I believe Shell said he's pretty sure they do) but even if they don't directly it is just a matter of finding the conversion for the two games. From that point it is literally just taking all the Melee data and moving it over to PM.

Once you guys get that all sorted out, it'd be really interesting to know how close you got. Especially with the characters that were close to being 'finished' without the Melee data.

And I hope that you guys aren't opposed to making some minor tweaks to some characters' Melee values if it's necessary for balance.

 

[iLink]

Textures will be an optional extra, as they should be. They're easy to swap in and out and don't affect gameplay.

Vertex hacks however cannot be optional. They change gameplay. So they either need to be in or out.

My personal opinion is that Melee vertex hacks should be the standard for certain characters. I think in general the people supporting this game would prefer the Melee models on characters like Ganon and the spacies.

In my personal opinion, I didn't really like the spacies. They just looked awkward and saturated along with the rest of the graphics in the game.

The ganon one looked nice though.

 

[JCaesar]

Saturation is a texture issue. Melee textures will be completely optional.

 

[I R MarF]

Thanks for the answer Plum! That is really great news to know that melee chars (at least top and most high tiers) in PM will have spot on similarity.

 

[GP&B]

Then it sounds like completing Melee characters should be a top priority for sure (basically, I'm seconding SB's notion or at least I'm pretty sure he said it).

I think changing those stats for balance purpose would largely depend on whether they were a detriment to the characters in the first place. For example, I believe Link was said to control fine; it's some of his attacks that simply couldn't keep up so they're being sped up or improved in other ways.

Maybe I should read up on the cons of the Melee characters some and see what stat-related issues there are (if they are more detrimental than necessary for balance).

 

[Kink-Link5]

Hopefully Zelda is being looked into a lot. Since Brawl was released I never considered her "buffed" from her melee counterpart, but by no means should Top Tier Zelda exist in any version of Smash either. I'd say the best course of action would be to use her Melee iteration with better knockback angle on Nair and a much faster grab.

Also, I hope Zelda and Peach retain their Melee "unique" air dodges that allowed them to control their fall state much sooner than any other characters..

 

[AceSe3don]

Might be out of subject:
Would you guys accept a full Mewtwo hack (even sound effects) over Lucario for this project?
Cause that would make it amazing IMO.
If so, then please be aware that we are almost done.

 

[Wind Owl]

Hopefully Zelda is being looked into a lot. Since Brawl was released I never considered her "buffed" from her melee counterpart, but by no means should Top Tier Zelda exist in any version of Smash either. I'd say the best course of action would be to use her Melee iteration with better knockback angle on Nair and a much faster grab.

We're sort of slowly developing Zelda, coming back to her then leaving her alone in intervals. We basically want to combine her Brawl buffs and ridiculous Melee Fair/Bair, with some new elements thrown in as well.

Also, I hope Zelda and Peach retain their Melee "unique" air dodges that allowed them to control their fall state much sooner than any other characters..

Can you give me data on this? I'll take a look at the Melee data rips, too.

Might be out of subject:
Would you guys accept a full Mewtwo hack (even sound effects) over Lucario for this project?
Cause that would make it amazing IMO.
If so, then please be aware that we are almost done.

Many of us love Mewtwo but wouldn't put him over Lucario unless we get a clone engine.

 

[genkaku]

Having melee's values so accessible will speed development up considerably, correct?

 

[Wind Owl]

That is correct.

EDIT: Kink-Link, the only difference I see between theirs and Mario's for example is earlier IASA by 10 frames. That should already be in.

 

[iLink]

1:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQ0ZrerRbQ

I don't know if anyone caught this, but for some reason the dair connected but popo didn't get knocked back at all. At first I thought it might be a phantom hit but it really look like it connected.

 

[I R MarF]

That's really strange X iLink X... Popo should have been owned. lol.

 

[Sora-kun]

1:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQ0ZrerRbQ

I don't know if anyone caught this, but for some reason the dair connected but popo didn't get knocked back at all. At first I thought it might be a phantom hit but it really look like it connected.

looked like it was shielded to me @_@

 

[Revven]

1:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQ0ZrerRbQ

I don't know if anyone caught this, but for some reason the dair connected but popo didn't get knocked back at all. At first I thought it might be a phantom hit but it really look like it connected.

Known, it's apparently a glitch in Melee too. It'll be fixed, you don't need to point these things out.

 

[Strong Badam]

I'm still totally for going "**** Lucario, MEWTWO YEAHHH," but most disagree with me.

 

[L/A/W]

I'm still totally for going "**** Lucario, MEWTWO YEAHHH," but most disagree with me.

i agree

Might be out of subject:
Would you guys accept a full Mewtwo hack (even sound effects) over Lucario for this project?
Cause that would make it amazing IMO.
If so, then please be aware that we are almost done.

if this is a high quality and legitimate replacement it would gain a lot of hype for the project

 

[I R MarF]

The fact that mewtwo, a non clone character, was removed is absolute bull. Not simply because of that, but also because he is one of the few pokemon I am familiar with. However, considering Smash is initially a Japanese video game... and Japan is a country where teenagers in highschool play pokemon, I can understand the reasoning for updating from mewtwo.

For people in the US, I'd say most would appreciate mewtwo. Whereas in Japan... I have feeling Lucario is more welcome; but I am probably sterotyping.

Also, I think Lucario has more potential in his meta game and replacing him with a recreated mewtwo would stall the project (especially after P:M has found a way to speed it up)

 

[AceSe3don]

Many of us love Mewtwo but wouldn't put him over Lucario unless we get a clone engine.

Why not? Sure I love Lucario, but Mewtwo was way better or a character.
You decide for yourself, and see what you could do about it.

If not, maybe you could tell me a way to make a Mewtwo M version of Mewtwo so that we Mewtwo lovers would be able to play it in this awesome Project.

 

[vectorace]

i belive its called a phantom hit when the damage is given but for some reason the hitbox doesnt register or something to that effect.

 

[Crispy4001]

The debate is long dead, but I was digging through some old Nintendo Powers today and came across this in Issue 124:

Obviously won't change the fact that they took out L-canceling in Brawl (or stop Project M from patching it in ).
Just thought I'd share for fun, as something to look forward to again in P:M.

 

[I R MarF]

Ah, Nintendo Power. They used to be so cool and actually gave legit tips, guides, and tricks. Now they have regressed to interviews, showcasing, and reviewing only. I compared 100 or so issues I had and noticed that they were actually gradually getting shorter in length, I also remeber their official strategy guides were some of the best on the market for nintendo games. (Prima is so innacurate and poorly edited) Then again, purchasing guides are pointless with the internet and its a mystery to me why the industry hasn't failed yet.

Also I think there was some ambitious fellow who wants to do a Project 64 type deal with brawl (z cancelling, 0 hit and death combos) somewhere on this board.

 

[sffadsad]

Textures will be an optional extra, as they should be. They're easy to swap in and out and don't affect gameplay.

Vertex hacks however cannot be optional. They change gameplay. So they either need to be in or out.

My personal opinion is that Melee vertex hacks should be the standard for certain characters. I think in general the people supporting this game would prefer the Melee models on characters like Ganon and the spacies.

I'm fairly certain this statement is false. Tons of people are using vertex hacks as alternate textures, and they work fine. Unless there is some incredible bone renaming or resizing, vertex hacks play exactly like their normal counterparts. Even Mariokart64n's amazing Mewtwo vertex plays almost exactly like a normal Lucario.

 

[Revven]

Melee 'dorf is slightly smaller than Brawl 'dorf in height which changes range and what not without having modified the hitboxes specifically for that vertex hack.

 

[CT Chia]

theres some vids on my utube channel of me vs ally

/chibosempai

 

[stingers]

oh boy vids of chibo losing to his falcon...cant wait to see this

i practically won against ally's falcon with my "first-time-ever-playing-this-character" jiggs. stop sucking

 

[sffadsad]

Melee 'dorf is slightly smaller than Brawl 'dorf in height which changes range and what not without having modified the hitboxes specifically for that vertex hack.

Oh, I can see how that would be a problem. But wouldn't it be alright to vertex the look of Melee Ganondorf while keeping his Brawl height?

Actually, with the amount of perfection P:M is going for I can understand that would be a less than ideal choice.

 

[Revven]

oh boy vids of chibo losing to his falcon...cant wait to see this

i practically won against ally's falcon with my "first-time-ever-playing-this-character" jiggs. stop sucking

^Agree with this man. lrn2di against Falcon plz.

Edit: Obv I'm joking.

 

[stingers]

lol i was just trolling chibo...allys falcon is legit

 

[Revven]

lol i was just trolling chibo...allys falcon is legit

So pro at trolling.

 

[Rhubarbo]

Question: When rolling back on to the stage, is the ledge unable of being grabbed?

 

[Wind Owl]

No, we haven't figured that out yet.

 

[Plum]

Kind of interesting to see how one of the best Brawl players out there can actually do pretty well in P:M because he is such an insanely smart player.

His Falcon could be so much more technical and fast but being (IMO) the second best Brawl player (and the best Brawl Falcon) in the world gets him that far.

 

[CT Chia]

No, we haven't figured that out yet.

Don't add that plz, it's more or less a glitch in Melee. It makes no sense that one can not grab the ledge while someone isn't even on it.

 

[kaizo13]

has there been any leads on some sort of.....global DI modifier o-O?

 

[kaizo13]

Warning: Crashboards Alert

 

[ValTroX]

I hope they don't add that(the roll that prevents ledge grabbing i mean).

 

[The Good Doctor]

Don't add that plz, it's more or less a glitch in Melee. It makes no sense that one can not grab the ledge while someone isn't even on it.

It's also a large part of the game that players use...
Same with wave dashing....
I say keep it in....

 

[kaizo13]

honestly i think it should be somewhere inbetween melee and brawl.....if they ever figure it out...

MAD seems to good of a recovery from what i've seen so far in P:M, due to no ledge occupancy. Melee might have been a bit too much but Brawl seems to little....imo

 

[ValTroX]

I agree with Kaizo, but if I must choose, I choose brawl's edgehog just because you have to be VERY precise. I'll probably be happy with whatever they guys give us anyway xD. I just want melee environment with brawl's responsiveness.