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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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Wind Owl
Smash Lord
The team just got done transfering Melee physics to Brawl.
Guess what? The unchanged values found in the Melee dat files match perfectly for Brawl. Perfect Melee physics, guys. Get hype.
Guess what? The unchanged values found in the Melee dat files match perfectly for Brawl. Perfect Melee physics, guys. Get hype.
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- Feb 27, 2008
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- 26,550
He plays Falcon in Melee. He plays Melee at an average-ish level.
speechless
Crispy4001
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2007
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- 730
Nvmd, misunderstanding. Suppose I'm in the Melee ledge camp. The edge game was very close to perfect in Melee, and I think the roll edge-guarding stuff was important to keeping the tensions high and the recovering player at a notable disadvantage.
G
genkaku
Guest
Ho crap. Things are going down.
As far as ledges go, there was a rather legthy debate a while back. I myself prefer Brawl ledge occupancy, 'cause I think it's more interesting than just grabbing the ledge any point before the challenge and pressing R. In any case the discussion was deemed pointless because if it remains impossible to code, it doesn't matter what your personal opinion is.
As far as ledges go, there was a rather legthy debate a while back. I myself prefer Brawl ledge occupancy, 'cause I think it's more interesting than just grabbing the ledge any point before the challenge and pressing R. In any case the discussion was deemed pointless because if it remains impossible to code, it doesn't matter what your personal opinion is.
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with brawl edge rolls you have to time your ledge grab and use the invincibility or outright kill your opponent.
strictly objectively speaking, it adds more depth and creates a more skillful edge game.
strictly objectively speaking, it adds more depth and creates a more skillful edge game.
Crispy4001
Smash Ace
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- Jun 14, 2007
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- 730
Great to hear! Obviously going to be great news for the higher tier Melee characters. Though I'm still skeptical about what it could mean for the others without some adjustments. Trust you guys know what's best though, since all the progress without those values was already amazing.
Just wondering, how close were you in comparison to the actual Melee values for some of the (more fine-tuned) characters? Come to any realizations as to how Melee handled things differently?
cubaisdeath
Smash Lord
I agree. its a lot more fun when you don't get edgehogged at 20% cuz you did something dumb and falco dair'd you. the lack of consistent edgehogs in general are what makes your offstage edgeguarding that much more rewarding when its successful.
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theoretically speaking it can still happen, it's just not mindless "o i hit l or r when they're about to recover"now.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
We've discussed ledge occupancy a million times, we currently have no way of coding it even if we wanted to change it, so please drop it everyone.
Even a slight change in hitboxes/hurtboxes changes the gameplay, and thus vertex hacks must be either mandatory or banned.
ds22
Smash Lord
Although I haven't experienced a change in gameplay when using the Melee Ganondorf (but that's just me speaking).
Revven
FrankerZ
More videos by moi: http://www.youtube.com/user/smk2
Lots of Ganondorf. I'm not the best player ever. Also, these matches are from a few weeks ago so they're not using the most updated version.
Lots of Ganondorf. I'm not the best player ever. Also, these matches are from a few weeks ago so they're not using the most updated version.
^ What he said O_O
No seriously? Awesome.
Wind Owl, if you don't want Mewtwo in project M, then can you at least tell me what do I have to change to make it fit into the project? I just wanna have it in my SD card while matching the other characters, like the way Zero and Wisp were made to match BBrawl/Brawlv/Brawl+ etc etc.
So please, if you could do it either on your own or tell me how to do it, that would be awesome.
And by the way,about tournaments? I don't even play Wi-fi, so yeah
ds22
Smash Lord
We need to do that for more characters (like Cloud, Naruto, Roy, Zero and Shadow).
SonioNineteen
Smash Apprentice
Does our friends over sea know about this awesum project?
humble
Smash Ace
Hyyyype
P:M devs 2gud. Such amazing news- this should really help cut down on work needed, as now you know all the data to transfer. Does this apply to chars as well?
On the topic of ledges, obv. Brawl is better, and no code for melee anyway.
On the topic of vertex edits, I would say yes, include them, but only if you can get great quality ones like mariokart64 makes. You would need them for Ganon, Fox, and Falco.
Speaking of Ganon, would you please remove the dark effect from his fair?
Obviously you aren't going to notice anything by just playing. What he means is that since the model isn't exactly the same, the character's hurtbox is slightly different.
krazyzyko
Smash Champion
*Pimping Yoshi*
R U going to make Yoshi JC it's shield like in 64? And also JC'ing it's side+B will be great.
This would make Yoshi, more playable... not broken at all, as some ppl may think.
How R U going to decide which Brawl characters are going to be fast fallers? (like Fox, Falco and CF)
R U going to make Yoshi JC it's shield like in 64? And also JC'ing it's side+B will be great.
This would make Yoshi, more playable... not broken at all, as some ppl may think.
How R U going to decide which Brawl characters are going to be fast fallers? (like Fox, Falco and CF)
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
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- 3,601
This is so hype. :D
Toadster5
Smash Journeyman
Also, when he uses his egg lay I don't think the opponent should get invincibility frames after the egg breaks. It would still require good timing to follow up on it.
humble
Smash Ace
Brawl yoshi tends to have a really good grab game, and some cool technical play (Dragonic reverse, perfect egg lay, etc.) What do you guys plan to do to make yoshi better, while removing his easy grab release chaingrabs?
On that topic, with the problem that chaingrabs remove control from the other player in brawl and simply stop the game until the chaingrab reaches its end, its obviously a complete halt of the pace of the game and ruins the flow of play. When you can no longer control your character and have no hope of escape, its pretty demoralizing and not fun at all. But at the same time, chaingrabs offer several characters reliable percents and a more threatening grab game, improving them overall. How could we keep Melee pace, without nerfing these characters?
On that topic, with the problem that chaingrabs remove control from the other player in brawl and simply stop the game until the chaingrab reaches its end, its obviously a complete halt of the pace of the game and ruins the flow of play. When you can no longer control your character and have no hope of escape, its pretty demoralizing and not fun at all. But at the same time, chaingrabs offer several characters reliable percents and a more threatening grab game, improving them overall. How could we keep Melee pace, without nerfing these characters?
ClinkStryphart
Smash Journeyman
Why would you want that removed because it wasn't in melee on Ganon? I personally say keep it due to 1. Brawl has no character that does direct shadow damage normally. 2. It keeps him from being a Luigified clone of falcon. I say keep it. Not to mention it fits him. I was actually surprised in Melee the only shadow moves he had were warlock kick and warlock punch and Warlock (raptor boost). Again I say keep it due to it looks more like him and gives him a much more evil personality.
Also on a note about the CG (ChainGrab) thing I believe they said they are putting Chaingrabs back in but to I think its only Melee CG's so I think you have a better probablility at DIing them better. However I do agree with what you say but then again I can only watch from videos. A good solution to the characters though atleast I think if CG is not implemented would be make those toons either harder to kill or make them Rapid as hell like B+'s Bowser in the latest versions. I am not Claiming that they are in or not so don't take my word get word from the devs like shanus, or JC.
ZodiakLucien
Smash Ace
You could also try the route of what they did with DK's side B. If someone is in an egg first hit knocks them out. I hope to actually try this out soon, when I do I'll post some of my thoughts on it. You guys are doing some really impressive things.
I R MarF
Smash Ace
Humble, Melee chaingrabs aren't as cheap as they seem and a lot of them (if not all of them) require good prediction, concentration, and some only work under certain condtions. That doesn't mean that Shiek, ICs and D3 aren't going to have highly effective chain grabs but for most of the cast you probably don't need to worry.
And in regards to Yoshi, he definitely needs a buff. For his up-b would giving him egg cancelling or increased thrown egg airspeed help with his approach/ defense?
Also, I've noticed that yoshi goes up, forward, and down when using his down b on the ground. Is it possible for this effect to also apply in the air? It would give him an extra vertical (and minimal horizontal) boost for recovering. I also think bowser's down b should operate in a similar fashion when used in the air.
And in regards to Yoshi, he definitely needs a buff. For his up-b would giving him egg cancelling or increased thrown egg airspeed help with his approach/ defense?
Also, I've noticed that yoshi goes up, forward, and down when using his down b on the ground. Is it possible for this effect to also apply in the air? It would give him an extra vertical (and minimal horizontal) boost for recovering. I also think bowser's down b should operate in a similar fashion when used in the air.
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
In which I'm pretty sure they'll change it so that Shiek can't chaingrab everyone below her spot on the tier list.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Should give Yoshi his N64 Fair. That would be amazing with his DJC.
And some kind of nice technique with a grounded egg roll.
humble
Smash Ace
Because it is an awkward and unattractive effect that looks odd and was never in any smash game for good reason. I agree ganon is the lord of darkness and should be feared by all, but he doesn't need purple flames to show it. And no, brawl doesn't have any character who normally does shadow damage, because its an unnecessary graphic effect that doesn't look good. Personally I don't like GFX if they are poorly done or unfitting, and brawl has no good looking darkness effects. To be clear, darkness is generally associated with black, not purple, and I don't know why it looks like flames. Purple fire is not the same as darkness, but that isn't even my main problem. It's just how misplaced it is on that move. Really, it adds nothing to the attack but distraction and makes it look weaker. I would say keep the shadow effects on Warlock Kick, his Choke, and Warlock Punch. Remove it from his up-B swipe as well, it doesn't look any better there. When its a physical attack like his tilts, aerials, smashes, etc. It looks odd to have shadow effects, and doesn't enhance him at all. Rather, it detracts, and I find it unnecessary and unappealing. Take note of his play in Brawl and Melee- neither game did he use the shadow effect for anything but his specials, and rightfully so. Few of his attacks are fitting to use GFX on. And Ganon is not a clone of Falcon at all, please banish the thought. He has a unique playstyle, and moveset, that vary from Falcon's in a number of ways. If you wanted to keep him from appearing too similar, the best way would be custom animations, not poor GFX. I would make the animations myself if it meant that they wouldn't abuse GFX (though I'd make animations for anything in P:M, given the opportunity.)
Melee CGs were so much better because you could DI them, and if you mixed up your DI and your opponent misread, you could escape. In brawl, there is no such thing- once they grab, its just a guarenteed x amount of repeats until it stops working, or they want you to die. For solutions to the Brawl CG problem, I think its pretty obvious they need to be changed, and what they are changed to could vary.
-They could make it so they are DI based, where they can escape with good DI, like Melee CGs.
-They could make it so they are no longer CGs, but set up the opponent for followups besides just the same thing repeated.
-They could make it so the character no longer has a CG, but instead they buff them in other areas.
-They could make it so they aren't guaranteed, but if you read their action correctly you can land a regrab.
These are a few paths to take with Brawl chars that CG, and while I don't really mind which one, I really urge the devs and programmers to do something in regards to CGs, and fix the annoying manner in which Brawl CGs play out. If there are any characters who have already had theirs changed, what was the solution used? For me, I feel like no CGs should be 100% guaranteed- in such a situation, you are not playing the game (I lost it), because you have no control on any factors. They literally have stolen control from you, and just like when I am playing, you aren't allowed to unplug my controller, so why should you keep a mechanic that essentially does the same thing and prevents your ability to play the game and control your character? There are ways to make a character good without falling back on a mechanic that is so detrimental to your experience.
Yay for personal opinions
stingers
Smash Obsessed
i kind of like the purple fire...=[
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
I think everyone can agree that Brawl's CGs suck. I'm pretty sure every current code set pack (B+, B-, bB) gets rid of the stupid CGs and I'm sure P:M will be of no exception (except for, you know, Melee CGs which are actually dynamic and don't make you lose control).
humble
Smash Ace
In addition to a texture and sound pack, they could add a GFX pack for people who would like to play with additional zany effects. Its easy enough to do in PSA, doesn't affect gameplay, and releasing it as a optional add-on ensures that those who want a more true Melee experience have the ability to do so, while those who would like some flashy GFX can have it as well. Its a matter of preference, so I feel it should be optional.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
or just deal with it... since, you know, you're gonna have to do it anyway....
humble
Smash Ace
I was sharing my input and personal opinion, and trying to think of a solution that would please everyone. If it is kept, then I'll just remove it myself later. However I doubt that I am the only one who isn't fond of it, and its not like its a gameplay change- its purely cosmetic, and I see no reason for it other then that some people like it, which isn't really a valid reason when the reason not to have it is that some people don't like it. Essentially, its a manner of preference, which is why I believe it should be optional.
And yes, I could just shut up about it, as its a fairly minor change, but I'm willing to bet that it's not the only cosmetic effect or change that people dislike, and I don't see why you would make it mandatory, either way. It isn't affecting gameplay, and I think GFX should be treated similar to SFX, in an optional package.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
k. but you do understand its not your call, right? you can complain and argue all you want, but its not really going to do much...
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
just for the record, frozenhobo's statements may or may not reflect the views of most of those in the project m backroom and please remember that everything in the game is subject to change.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
It's not to say that humble's opinion doesn't matter, but he's being outvoted in this anyways.
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