Ibuprofen
Smash Rookie
I really like this idea, but how do you think it would be adjusted in this case? More spammable but or slower but with more punishing damage? I'd like to see it as a weaker, more spammy heckler myself.
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Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I'd rather see it as something that would annoy the opponent to help with an approach, like Arakune's bugs in Blaz Blue.
I'll explain how I saw it. The waddle dee would be a floaty kind of projectile, so it would stay in the air longer. In other words, rather than just a projectile, it would also be a kind of defensive attack. So in front of D3, the Waddle Dees would be thrown in an arc, up to down. It could also be useful for hindering recoveries.
So here is what makes it harder to approach him:
1) The waddle dee throw animation would be quicker.
2) It would be a floaty projectile, thus stay in the air longer
3) It would fall in an arc, air to down.
4) The arc would be mid-range. Farther than what Dedede's melee range could reach, but barely.
5) Upon hitting the floor, it would vanish,
6) The random elements like the spikey could remain.
The way to use it effectively would be in the air. to cut animation time when landing. One could also combine this with wavedash to keep distance, possibly. In a sense, it would hinder enemy approach, like Grim would hope for. The mid-range would ease approach by forcing the enemy to guard or dodge. I think he has a different approach though.
I'd like to hear your oppinion on this, but also, Grim, you seem to have an alternative. Would you like to share it with me? I'm interested in how you think we could inspire his move from Arakune. My take seems closer to Faust from Guilty gear.
So here is what makes it harder to approach him:
1) The waddle dee throw animation would be quicker.
2) It would be a floaty projectile, thus stay in the air longer
3) It would fall in an arc, air to down.
4) The arc would be mid-range. Farther than what Dedede's melee range could reach, but barely.
5) Upon hitting the floor, it would vanish,
6) The random elements like the spikey could remain.
The way to use it effectively would be in the air. to cut animation time when landing. One could also combine this with wavedash to keep distance, possibly. In a sense, it would hinder enemy approach, like Grim would hope for. The mid-range would ease approach by forcing the enemy to guard or dodge. I think he has a different approach though.
I'd like to hear your oppinion on this, but also, Grim, you seem to have an alternative. Would you like to share it with me? I'm interested in how you think we could inspire his move from Arakune. My take seems closer to Faust from Guilty gear.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
In my opinion, I'd like the move to have multiple purposes all focusing around the idea of getting in the opponent's way. By that I mean that they should be relatively easy to kill, but D3 should be able to just harass the opponent with them to achieve the following:
• Interrupt the opponent's actions
• Start combos
• Block the opponent's projectiles
• Be combo'd into
That could be achieved by making the throw animation faster and having them attack more frequently.
JOE!
Smash Hero
yeah, having them essentially spam their little attacks as much as possible (without over-doing it) would probably be best, as it'd create an area where it'd be just a pain to approach him well/etc
I think we both agree on the faster attack startup. I'm not sure how we could manage your idea, but I'm sure both have merits. But yeah, start-up time seems to be an issue if we meleefy the game. But it can't be too spammy as in he can't fill the screen with waddle dees either.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Limit of 2-3 waddles on screen at once.
The waddles follow the opponent around, spamming little small attacks that don't do much damage or knockback, providing decent stun though. The point is for them to be like mosquitoes to the opponent, not a cloud of wasps.
I would love to see King Dedede being the mischievous, heckling king that we already know he is, using his minions to pester you and then attacking you when you're preoccupied.
And there is NOTHING wrong with a defensive character or two in a fighting game. Not everyone wants to rushdown.
The waddles follow the opponent around, spamming little small attacks that don't do much damage or knockback, providing decent stun though. The point is for them to be like mosquitoes to the opponent, not a cloud of wasps.
I would love to see King Dedede being the mischievous, heckling king that we already know he is, using his minions to pester you and then attacking you when you're preoccupied.
And there is NOTHING wrong with a defensive character or two in a fighting game. Not everyone wants to rushdown.
Archangel
Smash Hero
ok Is there anyone skilled enough to clue me in onto anything that has happend in the past Month and 2 days?
G
genkaku
Guest
It would seem to me that giving downB greater range would make it more viable, perhaps just enough that it's semi-useful and works well enough.
As far as sideB goes, I would like to see the waddledees acting like large, lumpy, animate turnips. This seems like the cleanest solution to their inclusion in a melee environment. This would ideally include disappearing on hitting the ground and altered physics to work more like a standard item.
As far as sideB goes, I would like to see the waddledees acting like large, lumpy, animate turnips. This seems like the cleanest solution to their inclusion in a melee environment. This would ideally include disappearing on hitting the ground and altered physics to work more like a standard item.
Archangel
Smash Hero
how about you just make them do the same things they would do when they walk to an enemy except they do it on impact and then vanish. For Example the electric Waddledee if it hit someone would stun them and do like a few hits with electric as it normally would and then vanish when it hit the ground or fall back to be caught.
B.W.
Smash Champion
What about his neutral-B? I feel like it would have little to no use in the Melee environment since it doesn't grant anything like Kirby's does. Kirby's isn't the most useful thing in the world but at least it can be used to gain a useful ability depending on the character he swallows.
DDD can swallowcide with it but could it also maybe have a second use so that it could maybe match up to Kirby's? I was thinking what if he could inhale projectiles and spit them out as high speed, good ranged stars if that's possible to do.
And for the Dees and Doos being thrown I still say, if it helps him that is, make Doos come out as a smash and Dees come out as tilts. If you change properties and/or the knockback of the two it can make it so both Waddles are worth using and if that is the case it does make for a good reason to get rid of the random factor.
DDD can swallowcide with it but could it also maybe have a second use so that it could maybe match up to Kirby's? I was thinking what if he could inhale projectiles and spit them out as high speed, good ranged stars if that's possible to do.
And for the Dees and Doos being thrown I still say, if it helps him that is, make Doos come out as a smash and Dees come out as tilts. If you change properties and/or the knockback of the two it can make it so both Waddles are worth using and if that is the case it does make for a good reason to get rid of the random factor.
ruhtraeel
Smash Ace
I haven't bothered to catch up page by page of this; has anything been planned for Pit/Olimar/characters meant for Brawl? Also, I know LD is still being worked on, but how is the DI coming?
Also, I dunno if this is LD as well, but Falco's waveshine/wavedash feels a tad delayed.
I'm also guessing that you can't get rid of the 6 frame minimum delay online? Any way to change some hex values to maybe make a move come out 6 frames faster while playing online, or have it read the controls sooner?
I look forward to basically every character that was meant for Brawl physics, like Pit, being Meleefied.
Also, I dunno if this is LD as well, but Falco's waveshine/wavedash feels a tad delayed.
I'm also guessing that you can't get rid of the 6 frame minimum delay online? Any way to change some hex values to maybe make a move come out 6 frames faster while playing online, or have it read the controls sooner?
I look forward to basically every character that was meant for Brawl physics, like Pit, being Meleefied.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
DDD's Brawl form is a wacky character that really doesn't fit in a Melee-esque environment very well. Hell, he even feels out of place in Brawl to me. Anyways, my gut feeling is that DDD should be a kind of slow and heavy character with a really strong defensive game, kind of like a weird Marth-Bowser hybrid.
I initially thought making him fill this niche would be really difficult, but I actually think just making his sidestep and roll last longer could go a long way towards achieving that, as they would kill off a couple cornerstones of his Brawl gameplay. He'd probably need some other buffs to prevent fast characters from overwhelming him, though. A fast move with invulnerability on start-up would probably help a lot. This could just be something like a re-worked up-B, utilt with a few invulnerability frames tacked on the front, or an original move replacing something else. I'd probably go with making up-B more like a shoryuken since it would be nice if the gtfo move was something you could quickly do OoS.
A couple other things that would probably help a bit are making dtilt uniformly faster and giving ftilt better IASA frames. Also to go along with the better defense theme, giving him a quick jump so he has a Kirby-like wavedash would help, although that could also end up just feeling really weird.
Regarding side-B, I have a hard time envisioning the Brawl side-B working well at all in PM and if possible, I'd scrap it entirely and replace it with something else. I think something like the hammer throw here could complement his gameplay well, although the trajectory should be a lot lower than in the video.
I initially thought making him fill this niche would be really difficult, but I actually think just making his sidestep and roll last longer could go a long way towards achieving that, as they would kill off a couple cornerstones of his Brawl gameplay. He'd probably need some other buffs to prevent fast characters from overwhelming him, though. A fast move with invulnerability on start-up would probably help a lot. This could just be something like a re-worked up-B, utilt with a few invulnerability frames tacked on the front, or an original move replacing something else. I'd probably go with making up-B more like a shoryuken since it would be nice if the gtfo move was something you could quickly do OoS.
A couple other things that would probably help a bit are making dtilt uniformly faster and giving ftilt better IASA frames. Also to go along with the better defense theme, giving him a quick jump so he has a Kirby-like wavedash would help, although that could also end up just feeling really weird.
Regarding side-B, I have a hard time envisioning the Brawl side-B working well at all in PM and if possible, I'd scrap it entirely and replace it with something else. I think something like the hammer throw here could complement his gameplay well, although the trajectory should be a lot lower than in the video.
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
you guys are lucky fly's interested :3
Eternal Yoshi
I've covered ban wars, you know
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Hmm.... Maybe Down B should get better shield damage to deter blocking it all the time??
As for Forward B, the Hammer throw sounds like a great Idea(an idea like I had for a certain character concerning his Hand Axe).
The trajectory should be like straight forward and then back, like a Hand Axe from.... you know who.
UpB should have no startup and invincibility frames during the first 10 or so frames but keep the end lag in.
As for Forward B, the Hammer throw sounds like a great Idea(an idea like I had for a certain character concerning his Hand Axe).
The trajectory should be like straight forward and then back, like a Hand Axe from.... you know who.
UpB should have no startup and invincibility frames during the first 10 or so frames but keep the end lag in.
I really like the idea of using up+b OoS as a gtfo move
Fly's side B area seems similar o my waddle dee area, except he's have a hammer.
For the neutral B, I agree it's MUCH too slow for Melee.
And yeah, Dedede felt out of place in Brawl too. I couldn't have expressed it better rmyself.
I feel we are being more productive here, men. Keep throwing these ideas. I'm sure we can help this way
.
For the neutral B, I agree it's MUCH too slow for Melee.
And yeah, Dedede felt out of place in Brawl too. I couldn't have expressed it better rmyself.
I feel we are being more productive here, men. Keep throwing these ideas. I'm sure we can help this way
.
i guess it's a fat guy thing huh? (DK, Bowser)
Eternal Yoshi
I've covered ban wars, you know
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Also an Emblem Prince thing.
Neutral B's slowness is supposed to balance out the better range in comparison to Kirby but... it is too slow.
Not sure how to keep it without making it abusable..... maybe slightly more range on the actual inhale grab collision rather than the suction hitbox or with slightly less windup??
Also maybe make his throws better.
Neutral B's slowness is supposed to balance out the better range in comparison to Kirby but... it is too slow.
Not sure how to keep it without making it abusable..... maybe slightly more range on the actual inhale grab collision rather than the suction hitbox or with slightly less windup??
Also maybe make his throws better.
what do you guys think? http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=15068
i was bored last night lol
i was bored last night lol
Slashy
Smash Lord
Great ideas that won't be included unless there is a direct benefit in doing so...I suggest you post these suggestions for Brawl Minus, they value creativity at the same level as functionality.
Dedede's side special should give him a bit of upward momentum like Yoshi's eggthrow, just to make it more annoying, or getting hit with Waddle Dee's cause tripping to make the move more useful.
Knips
Smash Rookie
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I think a decently faster inhale could help DeDeDe out a lot. Also, with a hammer as big as his, I feel like him not having a move that grounds opponents is a blasphemy.
As for his up-b, I think it would be cool if it were reworked to make him stand on his hammer like a pogo stick and then the jet capabilities of the hammer launch him skyward.
As for his up-b, I think it would be cool if it were reworked to make him stand on his hammer like a pogo stick and then the jet capabilities of the hammer launch him skyward.
as an ex avid ddd main I have some ideas for ddd:
nair could stay at a constant knockback at all percents (like fox's shine) for combo and KO potential. keep startup and end lag. could be very interesting
dair should rack up that first bit of damage and the last hit should be a meteor spike.
bair and uair should stay exactly the same
a good idea for fair could be a move similar to ftilt in the air. not only keeping enemies at bay on the ground but quick characters with good airgame too considering how big and slow ddd is.
faster inhale would be amazingly helpful
for up b i think you should have the option of landing hard on the ground or canceling it by tapping up and having no lag time upon entering the ground.
down b should be changed altogether no more jet hammer. maybe just a counter?
side b should be removed altogether as well. flys idea with the hammer throw was pretty good. i think this could work too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4l33ByjEPI the samurai shodown part of the video. ddd has an exclamation park above his head and then strikes with blinding speed. a bit of start up lag but finishes quick and powerfull. kind of a mix between marths dolphin slash, ike side b and metaknights down b.
those are my ideas
nair could stay at a constant knockback at all percents (like fox's shine) for combo and KO potential. keep startup and end lag. could be very interesting
dair should rack up that first bit of damage and the last hit should be a meteor spike.
bair and uair should stay exactly the same
a good idea for fair could be a move similar to ftilt in the air. not only keeping enemies at bay on the ground but quick characters with good airgame too considering how big and slow ddd is.
faster inhale would be amazingly helpful
for up b i think you should have the option of landing hard on the ground or canceling it by tapping up and having no lag time upon entering the ground.
down b should be changed altogether no more jet hammer. maybe just a counter?
side b should be removed altogether as well. flys idea with the hammer throw was pretty good. i think this could work too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4l33ByjEPI the samurai shodown part of the video. ddd has an exclamation park above his head and then strikes with blinding speed. a bit of start up lag but finishes quick and powerfull. kind of a mix between marths dolphin slash, ike side b and metaknights down b.
those are my ideas
Shadic
Alakadoof?
It's called development priorities. We could spend hundreds of man hours coming up with and implementing the dozens of ideas that sound really cool on paper but utterly screw with the game in ways we don't intend, or we could approach things a bit more realistically.
It's no surprise that Dedede and Olimar are two of the characters that had the most creative ideas for revamping them, and they're our two least developed characters.
felipe_9595
Smash Lord
A question, is there a way to get the Grat Temple music hack of SSE: Jungle ???? it sound fantastic
This video : http://www.youtube.com/user/ConnorTheKid#p/u/13/_TJstuVH1Dw
This video : http://www.youtube.com/user/ConnorTheKid#p/u/13/_TJstuVH1Dw
B.W.
Smash Champion
There isn't a single DDD idea I hate so far, whether it be keeping him the same or changing him drastically.
Still I feel making DDD a more defense-oriented character a good idea. His hammer keeps people out and his projectiles can do the same. I still feel maybe being able to control his waddles in a way you choose when they do their actions would help this. The way I see it, with what he has already and what can be changed he could turn into a Lamda 11/nu 13 from BlazBlue character thanks to the fact that he has Waddle Doo's beam, and you could make Waddle Dee just jump constantly if you send him out, then the fact you can just turn them into projectiles yourself by hitting them.
Making these things controllable and altering how they hit could help DDD just keep people out, which is kinda what he does already, no? I don't play Brawl so I'm not entirely sure as to how he works in it but to me it seems like he would work well like this.
Still I feel making DDD a more defense-oriented character a good idea. His hammer keeps people out and his projectiles can do the same. I still feel maybe being able to control his waddles in a way you choose when they do their actions would help this. The way I see it, with what he has already and what can be changed he could turn into a Lamda 11/nu 13 from BlazBlue character thanks to the fact that he has Waddle Doo's beam, and you could make Waddle Dee just jump constantly if you send him out, then the fact you can just turn them into projectiles yourself by hitting them.
Making these things controllable and altering how they hit could help DDD just keep people out, which is kinda what he does already, no? I don't play Brawl so I'm not entirely sure as to how he works in it but to me it seems like he would work well like this.
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Uh yeah, you ask the author of the video about it...
JediKnightTemplar
Smash Lord
Just google video to mp3. That will get you an MP3 and from there just make a BRSTM, which I'm guessing you know how to do. (you could train a monkey to do it, it's that simple)
well that and, I think saying "shoryuken" while doing up+b OoS with Dedede would be really fun.
G
genkaku
Guest
Connor is a squirtle main now?
Does that mean that it's as technisocal as I hoped it would be?
Does that mean that it's as technisocal as I hoped it would be?
Ibuprofen
Smash Rookie
Does DDD's neutral B actually have a reason not to get scrapped for something entirely new? Inhale doesn't really compliment him at all, and it's only potential use has been for Swallowcides which aren't practical at all. I've always thought some sort of chargeable dash attack for spacing would work well for him, but that might make DDD's recovery too good if it could be used that way.
I don't really know, just throwing out an idea here. His neutral B has always been my least favorite part of his moveset because it's virtually worthless.
I don't really know, just throwing out an idea here. His neutral B has always been my least favorite part of his moveset because it's virtually worthless.
Demon-oni
Smash Journeyman
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I think we should make neutral b command all Dee's/Doo's on the field use their attack. Dee's that little jump thing and Doo's get that spark ray thing. It could be fairly fast since their isn't any direct effect without them on the field, and it could lead to some crazy scenario's. I would say that he can't give multiple commands within 5 secs of each other though, to prevent just spamming B.
Phantom1987
Smash Apprentice
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I totally agree with Demon-oni.. That would be a very innovative change for PM
TL?
Smash Ace
I'm a little confused as to why everyone wants brawl characters to have half their moves replaced. The default animations are almost always better than homebrew ones.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Sorry, I missed what was so imbalanced about Snake's up tilt animation.
Or, as the topic is currently discussing, D3's neutral special animation.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
We talking about D3?
Turn Jet Hammer into Marth's Down-B. Hit animation? Jet hammer :3
Turn Jet Hammer into Marth's Down-B. Hit animation? Jet hammer :3
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
See what I mean? >_>
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
so how many of you are putting this on every stage?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjhYuDMinW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjhYuDMinW0
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