Project M Social Thread

[Deleted member]

so now people will stop complaining about falcon grabbing too far. fun times.

What game have you been playing this entire time?

 

[Sneak8288]

What game have you been playing this entire time?

In PM falcon does grab from too far

 

[Deleted member]

Oh well that's reasonable.

I thought he was complaining about Falcon's grab range in vBrawl and Melee.

 

[Sora-kun]

Oh well that's reasonable.

I thought he was complaining about Falcon's grab range in vBrawl and Melee.

Ah, i should have elaborated. I forgot to say "ledge". My bad.

 

[GP&B]

lmao, Guy. For whatever reason, it took me a while to release how painfully obvious that was.

 

[camelot]

Check it out:

Captain Falcon's ledge grab boxes at the peak of his up-b.

lolbrawl

 

[Anth0ny]

oh god

 

[GP&B]

Good lord, that's insane.
I'm asking out of curiosity since it hasn't really been answered yet, but...
Are you actually able to modify those boxes yet?

 

[Revven]

Yes, we are and we're going to go through them soon.

 

[FireBall Stars]

That's great, those crazy ledge grab range never looked good to me, and for everyone here lol. I always thought on spider man shooting web to grab ledges from that far. >_>

@Strong_Bad
I don't see often powershielding in melee aside of powershielding on projectiles, maybe it's just lack of attention I guess.

 

[GP&B]

Excellent, I'm sure many players will be happy to see the more appropriate and less mind-blowing ledge grabbing boxes in due time.

 

[Strong Badam]

@Strong_Bad
I don't see often powershielding in melee aside of powershielding on projectiles, maybe it's just lack of attention I guess.

Powershielding projectiles is the most useful application of power shielding <__<

 

[FireBall Stars]

It's because the sound when powershielding an attack and when reflecting projectiles are different in P:M.

What I meant is that the sound when powershielding an attack would not matter too much because of the lack of powershield in that case, as the sound that will be heared the most will be when reflecting projectiles.

>_>

 

[GP&B]

I liked Melee's powershield noise and visuals because it was subtle and because Brawl computers pulled it off even more which made it even more irritating.

 

[Strong Badam]

Seriously guys? You're discussing the sound that occurs when someone powershields an attack?
...

 

[ds22]

Seriously guys? You're discussing the sound that occurs when someone powershields an attack?
...

They have to discuss something.

 

[Sora-kun]

Yaaay intelligent discussion.

 

[FireBall Stars]

I'm not discussing anything, just trying to explain my post D:

 

[I R MarF]

Yeah, this thread needs some kind of direction. Haha

Anyway,

Spoiler

(hopefully the third time asking this will get recognized, lol)

are you guys planning to bring back samus's extended grapple?

I only asked because its an interesting trick in [NTSC] melee and it has a lot of good applications if you think about it, such as:
1. Being able to reach across over a third of final destination.
2. Can mindgame if you didn't use it earlier in the match. You can also use it to grab people behind you.
3. It has the same exact frame data as regular grapple, meaning it travels 3 times the distance it normal does in the same amount of time. This reults in making the grapple travel faster; so it is actually superior to use the extended grapple for close range due to its increased speed.

So can it be brought back? Or would it be too difficult to code atm?

 

[Gindler]

Will the ability to grab the ledge backwards still be in this? or will that be melee'd as well?

 

[GP&B]

IIRC, backwards ledgegrabbing only occurs on any sweetspotted UpB's like Melee except every character can do that now (there were characters in Melee who couldn't do that, right?)

 

[.Fade]

IIRC, backwards ledgegrabbing only occurs on any sweetspotted UpB's like Melee except every character can do that now (there were characters in Melee who couldn't do that, right?)

I think only C. Falcon, Ganon, Link, Y. Link, Falco and Fox could reverse ledge grab.

Yeah, this thread needs some kind of direction. Haha

Anyway,

Spoiler

(hopefully the third time asking this will get recognized, lol)

are you guys planning to bring back samus's extended grapple?

So can it be brought back? Or would it be too difficult to code atm?

It's impossible to code atm. Unless there's some coded correlation between Samus's missiles and Sonic's Homing Attack =P

 

[GP&B]

****, I'm too used to Brawl (well, Brawl+) to remember that. I didn't know there were so few that could.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Repost with edits:

Since there isn't much Ness discussion going on, I'll give some input

Jab- Brawl, with better Jab Cancel

Dash attack- All three hits have Horizontal knockback

Ftilt- Brawl

Utilt- Smash64

Dtilt- Smash64

Grab- Make standing grab better either speed wise or in hitbox duration. Brawl dashgrab

Fthrow- Melee

Uthrow- Melee

Dthrow- Brawl

Bthrow- Brawl

Fsmash- Melee

Usmash- Made better, obviously

Dsmash- See Above

Nair- Smash64 sexkick

Fair- I's suggest making the final hit angle low enough and have enough bkb so that it doesn't link into anything. PK Push is supposed to do just that, say GTFO to an opponent. Maybe have a decent amount of KBG so it'll kill around 1.5x what bair does.

Uair- Melee

Dair- At the risk of sounding obvious, Smash64

Bair- Brawl

B- Melee power, size, and control, Brawl startup and movement range, auto detonate on ground- NEW- auto detonate on hit

Up B- Brawl's projectile with Melee single hit juggling tailwhip, path doesn't shorten if he hits something with PKT2, can thunder barrier, Melee speed, Brawl's tighter control

Side B- Brawl Minus's 1.6 ground jump cancel, NEW- pseudo landing cancel (About half the landing lag)

Down B- NEW- 1 frame start up, 18 frame minimum "holding magnet out", remove wind, weak electric hit upward on release lasting 1 frame, 6 frame endlag on release, [total minimum frames- 25]

Attributes:

Run speed: Smash64
Wavedash: Longer


That's all I can say on the matter of Ness. Maybe simna can shed some more light on individual moves like his ground A attacks if he gets interested in the project.

 

[Revven]

Will the ability to grab the ledge backwards still be in this? or will that be melee'd as well?

At the moment you can only grab the ledge backwards with Side Bs (like Captain Falcon and Ganondorf for example) and Up Bs. Jumps and falling do not allow you to grab backwards. There's no telling if Up Bs and Side Bs will be included in that or not but for now, it's jumps and falling.

 

[Wind Owl]

Special Fall allows you to grab backwards as well. In fact, the only actions during which you cannot that you could already areJump and Fall.

 

[Sora-kun]

What character should we discuss? We really need a good topic or something..
Any brawl characters that need ideas? Melee char that needs an interesting buff? Come on devs deliver from the land of stupidity!

 

[I R MarF]

It's impossible to code atm. Unless there's some coded correlation between Samus's missiles and Sonic's Homing Attack =P

Yeah, maybe it'd be better to just have it so all you have to do is uptaunt during the extension animation and the reach will triple (without homing or the need to press (Z) again. This effect would act as sort of a "place holder" for the extended grapple until it can be properly codedsome time in the distant future when all of the neccessities are out of the way. (This is assuming that the P:M devs actually bother to add it back in, lol)

@Kink-Link5

I like most of your list, but isn't his fair supposed to be a damaging move that worked well with DJC? I don't think he needs two bairs, lol.

Also, as far as yo-yo's go, I think his usmash should knock people upward and away (during the first part of the attack) and the second part (aka, when the Yo-yo is above his head and after) should semi-spike enemies that are behind him downward. Sorta kinda like pikachu's uair.

It sounds a little strange, but I think it would be an interesting timed edgeguard against characters that try to recovery over Ness.

As for dsmash, idk. Damage should be bumped up a lot... or maybe the first hitbox should carry the opponent into the second hitbox (like Ganon's dsmash).

Additionally, melee yo-yos (not sure about 64 ones, I haven't check recently) had an interesting property where they could hang right off the side of the stage directly on the ledge while charging (effectively preventing anyone from grabbing the ledge). You can see this strange technique by standing right in front of the second pair of white traingles near the the ledges on FD. Brawl, on the other hand, fixed this flaw but it would be cool if it was brought back in P:M because I think it has some applications to be explored as an edgeguarding tactic.

 

[Sora-kun]

Yeah, maybe it'd be better to just have it so all you have to do is uptaunt during the extension animation and the reach will triple (without homing or the need to press (Z) again. This effect would act as sort of a "place holder" for the extended grapple until it can be properly codedsome time in the distant future when all of the neccessities are out of the way. (This is assuming that the P:M devs actually bother to add it back in, lol)

@Kink-Link5

I like most of your list, but isn't his fair supposed to be a damaging move that worked well with DJC? I don't think he needs two bairs, lol.

Also, as far as yo-yo's go, I think his usmash should knock people upward and away (during the first part of the attack) and the second part (aka, when the Yo-yo is above his head and after) should semi-spike enemies that are behind him downward. Sorta kinda like pikachu's uair.

It sounds a little strange, but I think it would be an interesting timed edgeguard against characters that try to recovery over Ness.

As for dsmash, idk. Damage should be bumped up a lot... or maybe the first hitbox should carry the opponent into the second hitbox (like Ganon's dsmash).

Additionally, melee yo-yos (not sure about 64 ones, I haven't check recently) had an interesting property where they could hang right off the side of the stage directly on the ledge while charging (effectively preventing anyone from grabbing the ledge). You can see this strange technique by standing right in front of the second pair of white traingles near the the ledges on FD. Brawl, on the other hand, fixed this flaw but it would be cool if it was brought back in P:M because I think it has some applications to be explored as an edgeguarding tactic.

I heard they added the yo-yo-over-ledge-thing already.

 

[Strong Badam]

I R MarF: EXTENDER isn't possible right now. changing grab box in the middle of a grab sounds like it'd be a HUGE *****.

 

[Deleted member]

Ness edgeguards amazingly offstage already. That yo-yo thing might be overkill.

Spoiler

Do it anyway.

Ness needs a way to turn around when he returns from edgeguarding offstage facing away from the ledge though. He can gimp himself when trying to use up-b if the opponent strikes the PK Bolt. Its kinda dumb.

I suggest allowing him to turn around in his PSI Magnet and also reducing the start up and ending lag for the PSI Magnet which improves its use all around.

 

[I R MarF]

I R MarF: EXTENDER isn't possible right now. changing grab box in the middle of a grab sounds like it'd be a HUGE *****.

Ah, I see. Well, hopefully post beta the issue will be revisited.

Also, I will correct myself:

Yeah, maybe it'd be better to just have it so all you have to do is uptaunt during the extension animation and the reach will triple for the next use

Spoiler

Brokeness removed

 

[Strong Badam]

then you have samus players grabbing the air in between stocks to charge up their grab range....

 

[Deleted member]

Or Samus's grab could just be modified to not suck and players won't have to resort to a gimmick like extended grapple.

Also that seems like a ***** to create.

 

[Sora-kun]

her grapple should be link speed(slightly slower bcuz there can only be one link speed grapple thing) and link's should be melee link range. problem solved.

 

[L/A/W]

did anything useful happen in the last few days?

 

[.Fade]

did anything useful happen in the last few days?

A couple nice streams, and Dant can possibly edit ledge grab ranges.

That's about it. =]

 

[Gindler]

Ness edgeguards amazingly offstage already. That yo-yo thing might be overkill.

Spoiler

Do it anyway.

Ness needs a way to turn around when he returns from edgeguarding offstage facing away from the ledge though. He can gimp himself when trying to use up-b if the opponent strikes the PK Bolt. Its kinda dumb.

I suggest allowing him to turn around in his PSI Magnet and also reducing the start up and ending lag for the PSI Magnet which improves its use all around.

He can curl it around the side the opponent isn't on, trickier that way but meh........that wording kind of confusing so idk

 

[FireBall Stars]

I think the way that grapple beam are in Brawl+ may be enough to make Samus grab more useful. Just speeding things up.

When you are facing away the stage with ness, just do the usual trajectory of pk thunder, the same way the move curves to one side it curves to the another, I don't see an issue when he's facing away the ledge, it's the same when he's facing it.

About the other thing, probably the pk thunder just needs to go through people like lucas'

 

[I R MarF]

then you have samus players grabbing the air in between stocks to charge up their grab range....

I'm not trying to insult you... but you are aware I am talking about recreating the extended grapple trick that was already IN MELEE, right?

And once you activate the the extended grab in melee, every grab thereafter has the triple range extension. So it wouldn't be that broken tbh if it was available the entire time in melee and was never abused to a "game breaking" extent. Also, without homing it would be worse than its melee incarnation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJCEiQ84RAw

^Here is a link demonstrating the melee extended grapple. As you can see, its main use would be to simple grab quicker at shorter ranges since it has the same frame data as the regular grapple (without the homing it can't tech chase or mind game).