Project M Social Thread

[Kink-Link5]

DrinkingAnalog

DrinkingGimmick

Drinking2frames

Drinking14%

 

[DrinkingFood]

KinkingFood

 

[leafbarrett]

Leafbarrett's avatar reminds me Gardevoir MUST be in.

This guy knows what's up.

 

[Kink-Link5]

We have to make a game sometime together Food.

I don't know how to code ****, and neither do you, but we can be the Co- Creative Directors since we seem to have an extremely similar take on game design. We'll get Cristina Vee and Johnny Yong Bosch to do all the voices for the characters, and you can L-cancel in it but there are anti-mash mechanics in place.

Also, for a balancing team, we'll hire theory crafters that back up their credentials because they played against JCaesar that one time in a tournament.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I would totally be down for that. I've always want to learn programming, but alas... low motivation.
I'm also kinda a perfectionist so when I do things I have to go all the way, so if I got into something like it would have to pretty much become my occupation.

 

[Kink-Link5]

OH **** I FORGOT A COUPLE

DrinkingArbitraryInputs

DrinkingCinnaminSon

[collapse=DrinkingCollapseTags]

[/collapse]

 

[metroid1117]

This is off-topic, but according to the data I've collected, there were three Project M tournaments in the Midwest this past weekend, with a grand total of 54 entrants. Get on our level .

 

[Vashimus]

Also, for a balancing team, we'll hire theory crafters that back up their credentials because they played against JCaesar that one time in a tournament.

I need to learn to not drink things when reading Kink's posts. XD

 

[ELI-mination]

This is off-topic, but according to the data I've collected, there were three Project M tournaments in the Midwest this past weekend, with a grand total of 54 entrants. Get on our level .

I'm about to pack my bags

 

[hotdogturtle]

Obviously, Isai has to be a playable character.

SSBRL

Only famous Smashers are the characters.

 

[KayB]

Hax - Knee
Ken - Ken Combo
Mango - Shine
Isai - Triple Knee
Armada - d-smash
M2K - d-throw Sheik
Hungrybox - bair
Shroomed - uair
Axe - U-smash
Kage - Fist
Dr. PP - Lasers
KirbyKaze - Fair Sheik
Taj - Shadowclaw
Leffen - johning

SSBRL let's go.

 

[CSDragon]

I've always wanted to see a fighting game with merged mechanics from melee and TFGs
But like, I can't think of a suitable combination, maybe I'm biased but melee mechaniics seem superior in every way unless you want to go full-on TFG.
Analog inputs>digital inputs for maximum character control
Analog shielding with essentially analog mix-ups>high/mid/low blocking with high/low mix-ups
High degree of analog freedom>digital movement with only one dash speed/one walk speed
Analog aerial movement>left/right/up aerial movement
Freedom to face away from opponent>forced to face opponent
Analog DI> combo breakers

Like the only things I would change, MAYBE is throw a maximum percent in there where the character is knocked out instead of ringed-out smash style. Like, scaled everyone's damage output down some, make 100% the max damage, but with the same knockback growth scale, so comboing people to death becomes more dynamic, with the option of chasing them around the stage for a knock-out or putting them in a position for a ring-out. Of course, some serious balancing would need to be done so the system doesn't favor one or the other too strongly. I also wouldn't mind seeing light touching up on the combo mechanics, perhaps something similar to lucario, and more movesset variety for each character. Something along the lines of: Every character gets a punch input, a kick input, a smash input, and a special input. Using any one alone with a directional or smash input produces a neutral, a la current smash, but with neutral kicks/punches/specials instead of only attack/special. Same with the directional input giving kicks/punches/specials in the given direction. Adding the smash input gives new attacks or powered up attacks/specials. Of course there would be some simple OHC mechanics similar to Lucario but more dynamic. Blocklag wouldn't prevent shield angling so the On-block comboing system could work properly. I also envision a two stick control system where neither stick actually attacks, but rather, one controls movement, and the other controls attack direction, requiring you to press a button to initiate an attack in that direction rather than forcing a certain kind of attack (as smash forces you to choose specials/tilts/smashes currently in brawl/project:M). Of course, since one cannot both use face buttons and two sticks with maximum efficiency, all button inputs would be either shoulder/bumpers or stick-clicks.
I wouldn't mind leaving specials in, although I'd want to take away focus from them by making them something you can't achieve in one round/stock
Speaking of rounds/stocks that's also something I don't know how to handle. Personally I would prefer stocks as it makes a players efforts the the opponent during the last round go to waste. But where exactly and in what manner you respawn a knocked out character seems like an awkward thing to handle. Could probably be done and the players would just become use to it though.

Yeah I have ****tons of ideas for such a game. Obviously it wouldn't work on a pad lol

Add in the multi-character fun of the Marvel vs Capcom series

 

[DrinkingFood]

Oh I don't know... not sure I want to over complicate it that much.
Like I wanted a deep and complicated game with smash's simple basics. Also there might not be enough buttons to throw in both an assist and a tap-in option. Already have to have a kick button, punch button, smash input button (might not be necessary, will probably just use analog input on the right stick), jump button, shield button, and grab button.

 

[JOE!]

*is learning coding cus going to school for game design, hit me up some point you two*

Also, the multi-character aspect could be a gimmick of a revamped PT...

 

[DrinkingFood]

Btw the idea was going to be a reconciliation of all fighters with mostly melee inspiration
probably not all the fighters from all games, but the ones most representative of the high level metagame in smash, representative of important series in smash, and/or highest popularity/demand.
In conjunction with increased variety in movesets, some "clones" would have their moves combined with the character that better represents the game. Like Fox would represent starfox, he'd be combined with falco and would share the specials and aerials of both (since there would be smash inputs for both at that point). Not because falco isn't more popular or anything (is he?) or because I have a spacie fetish (I main falco, but I don't) but I think it would be the best way to prevent over inflating the cast. I'm having trouble figuring out who would come from what series, since I also want to represent most of the big series that are represented in smash. Pokemon would probably be Pikachu (for being the face of pokemon) and MewTwo (because he deserves a second chance, and because he's also a serious face in pokemon), Mario and Bowser, Captain Falcon (the face of smash to a lot of people), Link/Ganondorf/Zelda/Shiek (not sure who to pick, or if not to pick all and force zelda/shiek to be one character), Kirby (would probably lend a lot of Jigg's properties to Kirby because I think the whole floaty concept fits him better, and I really don't wanna revamp jiggly to not be so aerial and fair/bair centric and have to come up with almost an entire new moveset for that **** too).

Obviously after smash, other popular/important TFG characters would be fit in, but since I'm not very familiar with them, I'm not really fit to say who belongs. Would probably include sets of characters ~equal to the number of characters in smash from Tekken, MvC, SF, MK, and others that I don't really know much about.

EDIT: Zelda/sheik, if included, would probably include some quick transform mechanics, for combos and to keep the opponent on their toes, possibly even one that uses meter for an instant transformation any time. But I really can't decide if I want to throw out Zelda/Shiek, who are collectively the namesake of their series and a character important to the melee metagame, Link, who is the face and main character of the series, or Ganondorf, the villain of the series for who I have lots of ideas and finally wanted to integrate a sword for...

 

[traffic.]

What you're describing is a fighting game with 300 characters that can do all the moves ever.



....so what kind of stages do you have in mind

 

[DrinkingFood]

No I definitely don't want 300 characters lol
but the roster might be pretty big, as much as 50 wouldn't surprise me
Really on the fence about stages
Like I wanted to integrate wall/corner gameplay with smash's edge/offstage play but I really don't know how without just blantantly throwing a wall onto the side of BF lol

EDIT: Also I was hoping to have the stages ever so slightly smaller than smash's, with a separate set for doubles (maybe?) because closer quarters will better help reflect the slight TFG influence. Platforms would still exist of course, but rather than being these ridiculous floating things, they'd probably be integrated into the background.

Oh I forgot to talk about airdashes. Not even sure how I would handle those. Like smash's only close equivalent is airdodging, but that doesn't have nearly as many aerial uses.

 

[Vashimus]

Universal air dashes or only for certain characters?

 

[DrinkingFood]

No idea. really don't want to break aerial positioning. Maybe limited airdashes for most characters with airdodges being universal and some characters having good command airdashes. Fox's side-b would probably be reworked as one, for example, with smash side-b and tilts side-b giving different distances, but keeping the startup and losing the hitbox to compensate.

 

[Life]

If Fox could cancel this hypothetical airdash into shine...

You could pretty much straight-up port FD into a 3D fighter and it'd be fine. Food for thought.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Oh no didn't want it to be a 3d fighter. There's elements there I don't even understand. But I wouldn't mind incorporating the Z axis more, such as slowing down rolls, reducing their invincibility, but giving them the advantage of moving them into the z-axis more. That gives careful move choice the ability to actually knock characters out of rolls, such as horizontal sword slashes.

EDIT: Also didn't cover character attributes and physical properties. Would still use the gravity/falling speed/weight system smash uses, but with less extremes in some cases. Spacies' level would probs still be max fall speed, but lowest would definitely be higher than jiggs level. There would already be a **** ton of other factors in matchups, I'd prefer to avoid every character feeling like you're playing a totally different game, and the game actually isn't supposed to have a ridiculous air that some smash characters have around them (I'm looking at you, wario, jiggs, and G^W).

 

[Kati]

Would anyone be interested in trying out poke stadium 1 with a smaller rock (approximately half the size) in the rock phase and no tree in the fire phase? with no windmill of course.

 

[DMG]

Those changes sound just as devastating to game balance as the changes to Ike, so I have to say no.

 

[DrinkingFood]

DMG who are you responding to
looked at the times and you could have easily been responding to me
if that's the case, none of those changes were suggestions for P:M, it's for a hypothetical game
If that's in response to Kati, that seems like a bit of an overreaction lol

 

[DMG]

To Kati, sir

 

[bubbaking]

What exactly was wrong w/ Kati's suggestion? :/

I don't see how the Ike to Roy comparison makes any sense whatsoever, as an analogy to comparing Toon Link and Young Link.

Young Link is in essence a more agile, weaker Link with multihit bombs to secure followups

Toon Link is in essence a more agile, weaker Link with multihit bombs to secure followups

Roy is in essence, a faster falling, weaker Marth with a huge difference in his sword sweetspot system

Ike is in essence, a character with completely different animations than Marth, no similarities in physics, and only vague similarities in having a long sword. It's like comparing Marth to Link.

Yes Toon Link has some differences from Young Link; however, Ike is nothing like Roy aside from now sharing a marginally similar sweetspot system.

U completely missed the point of my post, which was that TL and YL are different chars and u can't assume that TL is supposed to be remade to mimic YL. Otherwise one could expect that Ike should be remade to be like Roy. TL is a new char; he isn't YL.

 

[`dazrin]

This is off-topic, but according to the data I've collected, there were three Project M tournaments in the Midwest this past weekend, with a grand total of 54 entrants. Get on our level .

Hey man- not fair. The BC venue has been completely booked in January
Haha at least we have smashfests like 3 times a week though xD

Also, congrats to winning the last tournament you were at! YOU DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO ENTER DOUBLES! xD

 

[DrinkingFood]

Bubba, you also missed Kink's point. He was saying that the difference between the gap between Tink and Yink and the gap between Roy and Ike is too great to justify using them as an argument. Same goes MewCario.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Food: The idea I had in merging the traditional fighting game mechanics with Smash's would be-

Well I had two main ideas actually.

Actually 3, 2 of which are courtesy of our friends that make the Touhou fighters and Eternal Fighter Zero, Tasofro:

1.) A "Hitstun bar" that decreases in size to represent the hitstun of the current move. On top of this, doing longer and longer combos causes the hitstun bar to get shorter and/or deplete faster. In conjunction with a large amount of smash-styled juggles, i.e. hitting the opponent with moves that send at an angle and chasing after them with more moves accordingly, different moves would have different effects on the length of hitstun, all balanced with the intent on providing each move a use within combos. This feature comes courtesy of EFZ and IaMP.

2.) A "Combo limit" That has nothing to do with the length of the combo but rather with the moves used in it. Moves that deal greater damage or have long stun times would tend to increase the limit meter, and when it is full, the opponent can cancel out of the combo with ahdunnuh an airtech or they're just invincible or whatever. The limit meter then depletes rather quickly, allowing longer combos again. Attempting to bait the air tech or whatever and reset the combo would thus itself prove non-conductive as hitting too quickly after a "true combo" would cause the limit to max out again and you'll have to go for another read on their airtech (or whatever), which is something that could well be a possibility for very smart players or ones that are just use to Smash mid-combo reads. Waiting for the limit meter to drain, however, allows longer hitconfirm combos later on, and might prove more useful for players and characters that can both set field traps and combo decently. This concept comes courtesy of Scarlet Weather Rhapsody and Hisoutensoku.

3.) Increasing knockback scaling during combos: Inspired directly by Smash's hitstun system but made for a game with healthbars. As a combo gets longer or just maybe deals more damage regardless of length, the knockback of each hit increases more and more as the histun increases relatively less so. This causes combos to have to eventually end (possibly sometimes rather quickly but with high damage) due to the fact that the opponent will be launched further than their hitstun allows for followups.

Oh, and of course there's always the possibility of adding in DI on top of these mechanics.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Yeah DI for sure would be something I'd want to see return. Although maybe not ASDI because I think psuedo-crouch canceling/ASDIing into the ground is a pretty silly mechanic unless it's in a 100% smash environment.
Even then it can be pretty weird, causing instant knockdowns off of launchers...

But about those ideas of yours. I always felt that hitstun/knockback systems should be as straightforward, simple, and lacking as many unnecessary factors as possible. Maybe it's just me being biased by smash, idk, but I'd rather the combos didn't feel artificial by having moves with fairly arbitrary (even if it is determined by balance, there are lots of ways to balance things) numbers assigned for things like knockback, hitstun, damage, blockstun, etc when truth be told these things should all factor in to each other in a simple way that produces depth. Kinda the way smash does it. Granted it doesn't have to be exactly the same, but I don't think I could agree that artificial combo limiters should be used when smash style combos automatically limit themselves when DI and knockback growth are taken into account.

 

[Slashy]

Out of curiosity could anyone come up with a better air dodge than Melee's? I think the directional air dodges are fine, but I think neutral air dodges are useless

How about you DrinkingFood?

Also peeps, please post in this thread so the PMBR adds this to their low priority features list

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=333235

 

[DrinkingFood]

Idk i'm not picky, maybe hybridize brawl's airdodge for neutral airdodges like they've tried to do already in various mods of brawl.
Of course, it wouldn't be landing lag free like in brawl, and might need additional endlag to compensate for being able to control your momentum during it.
Or maybe additional start-up to make it more of a prediction thing like side-steps are for grabs.

EDIT: I don't believe I've talked about movement yet either. I'd want a lot of the same movement as you see in melee, except that it wouldn't be quite as important as in melee because characters in this game would have even more options. But options OUT of movement is what will be significantly different. Since movement direction and attack direction are different sticks for the ideal control scheme for this, the attack direction stick won't be taken up by movement options out of a dash/walk, so like a lot of TFGs, any attack option available at neutral will be available during a dash/run/whatever, given the direction input on the attack stick, of course. This is already something that can be done in project:M/melee anyways, but it requires ridiculous work-arounds such as crouching out of a run (very difficult for tilts) or pivoting out of dash startup (much easier in project:M but still an unnecessary way to go about it). This way would be a little more intuitive, easier, and allow metagame advancement beyond the point at which a lot of people stop in smash because of technical difficulty.

 

[Slashy]

Idk i'm not picky, maybe hybridize brawl's airdodge for neutral airdodges like they've tried to do already in various mods of brawl.
Of course, it wouldn't be landing lag free like in brawl, and might need additional endlag to compensate for being able to control your momentum during it.
Or maybe additional start-up to make it more of a prediction thing like side-steps are for grabs.

I always thought of the idea of simply giving you air shields, they wouldn't effect your momentum and you wouldn't be able to double jump or up special out of them, so you'd be forced to land or eat the shield drop time. If you input a direction while shielding, you would air dodge.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Pausing the edit of my last post to respond to that lol
yeah slashy that was actually idea-for-idea something I was thinking off, treating air blocking like ground blocking, except that instead of getting ground dodges+jump, you jut get directional airdodges OoS.
Idk maybe I could get behind something like that. It's an awful amount of theory craft to rule it out as a possibility when this game doesn't even exist lol.

 

[Slashy]

Pausing the edit of my last post to respond to that lol
yeah slashy that was actually idea-for-idea something I was thinking off, treating air blocking like ground blocking, except that instead of getting ground dodges+jump, you jut get directional airdodges OoS.
Idk maybe I could get behind something like that. It's an awful amount of theory craft to rule it out as a possibility when this game doesn't even exist lol.

I'm sure it is probably possible to implement that in P:M once the source code is released, but it was used in the Smash Bros. clone, Battle Stadium DON; however, your shield was linked to your super meter which powered everything (from special moves to final smashes)

 

[Kink-Link5]

Out of curiosity could anyone come up with a better air dodge than Melee's? I think the directional air dodges are fine, but I think neutral air dodges are useless

How about you DrinkingFood?

Also peeps, please post in this thread so the PMBR adds this to their low priority features list

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=333235

[collapse=360 degree air dash] I've pondered this idea as an alternative for airdodges a few times, and had quite a lot of thoughts on it, including the prospect of it being multi-directional, taking a jump, and so forth, pretty much everything in the OP. Some more food for thought though:

-Air dashes are partially effected by your character's current momentum. Atempting to immediately jump then air dash sideways, for example, results in a dash with the following trajectory:

This would apply to all dashes and all momentum, and is a feature very common to games that include an air dash. A bonus feature of this mechanic is that it allows wavelands and smooth movement, without unforeseen applications.

-On a per-character basis, air dashes are of different lengths, and may include invincibility or other such traits. Bowser, for example, might get a short super armor dash.

-On a per-character basis, air dashes can be acted-out-of at different times. Characters like Metaknight, for example, might do a barrel roll glide that goes a fairly far distance, but is very slow to act out of.

-Also on a per-character basis, the number of air dashes that can be used before landing or grabbing the ledge, as well as the prospect of it removing their double jump, varies. In addition, some characters might get their airdash back upon being hit, typically ones that are otherwise small and/or grouped with a poor recovery, as with Bowser.

-Pressing the airdash input with no direction results in an air dodge akin to Brawl's, has no effect on the number of jumps one can use, but does deplete one of their uses of an airdash.[/collapse]

This concept also is inspired by Hisoutensoku's 8-way Flight mechanic.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Well this isn't something I'd want to do off of smash's engine lol
Not sure it could handle it, if I had the programming skills, i'd make an entirely new game engine for this, but alas, until then, it is just a pipe dream
Even getting the permissions to use all the characters would be a nightmare though.

 

[BrandX]

So I've finally come back to this topic after realizing Im not contributing anything to the evo topics lol. Kinda missed this thread.

So tl;dr for me, what are we talking about XD

 

[Kink-Link5]

Smash+SkullGirls mechanics as a single game, basically.

 

[Slashy]

Essentially what would happen if the Project:M, Brawl Minus, Melee SD Remix teams came together and tried to make their own fighting game