Project M Social Thread

[BrandX]

Smash+SkullGirls mechanics as a single game, basically.

Oh? How did this come up if I may ask?

Youve got my attention~

 

[Kink-Link5]

Me and Food were talking about the proposition of if we made a game together since we have very similar game design philosophies.

 

[DrinkingFood]

@Kink
Actually that sounds like a really good idea. Giving up wavedashing would be painful though.
Back when I was little and a super casual who was the best of my friends, I heard about wavedashing in a friend's nintendo power, but didn't know how to do it so it kinda always held this air of mystery and awe to me, and that lingers a little bit I think As in I find it extremely fun and satisfying that I can do it now, even though I've been able to do it for ages now.

But for a real reason I am hesitant about that, it would disallow quick platform landings/slide from below unless the character's jump is such that their momentum stalls just above the platform.

 

[BrandX]

Me and Food were talking about the proposition of if we made a game together since we have very similar game design philosophies.

Well then I want to join in as well, I too have a aspiration for video game design lol

What have you talked about so far?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Read the past few pages (or maybe just one if you have your ppp set high).

 

[Slashy]

Oh? How did this come up if I may ask?

Youve got my attention~

Someone proposed that these hacking teams make their own original game after their projects were finished. We would need some artists to create a world and characters though.

BTW, I'm surprised so few of you care about the prospect of individual character victory themes.

 

[BrandX]

Someone proposed that these hacking teams make their own original game after their projects were finished. We would need some artists to create a world and characters though.

BTW, I'm surprised so few of you care about the prospect of individual character victory themes.

Im a person who is really into storyboarding and character creation. Still trying to raise my art level though.

 

[Kink-Link5]

We care, we're just talking about something else right now, billy.

 

[BrandX]

Read the past few pages (or maybe just one if you have your ppp set high).

Where can I set the ppp?

 

[Kink-Link5]

User CP at the very tippy top of the page, then edit options on the side panel of the CP page. under the "Thread display options,"

Set to 40 PPP for master race status.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Still trying to figure out how exactly the OHC mechanics would be. The different attack types for my theoretical game would be something a little like this:
Neutral punch
Neutral kick
Smash input neutral punch/kick (Would only apply if smash inputs were given it's own button in addition to functioning from the analog attack stick input, still not sure this would fit or be necessary but it's an interesting idea to toss around)
Tilted directional punches
tilted directional kicked
directional smash kicks
direction smash punches
All those for the normals

Specials would be neutral, neutral+smash input (as with before), directional tiled, and directional smash.

And each character would get 1-3 meter based moves, akin to final smashes, but built like supers in other fighters but more slowly.

probably just punch kick on one tier to punch->kick on the next, but I fear this may lend itself to unncessary combos
probably not with DI though, but if that's the case the scheme may be a little egregarious when DI prevents taking advantages of anymore than like 2-3 hits in a single chain.
Might have to tone DI down in that case.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'm partial to Light Attack, Medium Attack, and Heavy Attack, rather than punches and kicks. Less limited in HAVING to make characters use punches and kicks when it might seem weird.

Or Light, Heavy, Special, or some other thing of that sort. For a chain combo system it simplifies the whole equation.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Well kink the neutral, tilted, smash input would be analogous to that, but with smash inspiration.
Although the punch/kick system could just be renamed to something else, like attack 1/2 or attack green/blue or something that actually sounds good

Spoiler

redfishbluefish

 

[Kink-Link5]

You can still have command normals AKA smashes and tilts with an ABC system instead of a PK system.


I've had an entire chain combo system already in mind for a long while now (I was going to save it for a Joy Mech Fight fangame).

 

[Slashy]

I came up with the strange idea of making stage hazards a player controlled part of the game, maybe like how tower defense games do it

 

[BrandX]

A super system woukd be good, as long as it does not do it how playstation all stars attempted.

Also would this gane have the traditional kick someone off the stage mechanic to ko, or life bars?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Both of course.

I believe the idea was have "100%= instant death" but have a prospect of increasing knockback and gimps occur up until that point.

 

[BrandX]

Both of course.

Hell that would be kick ***, much more chaos XD

 

[DrinkingFood]

The idea I kinda had was to make it a 2x3 system, but assymmstrical, where there are more options in the middle of a chain then there are to start it or link into another one, that way DI can be more properly accounted for. Which would be why neutrals for either attack input only get a few options total but tilts/smashes get like 4+ options for either attack input (smashes/tilts would also apply in the air so forget the traditional smash idea of a tilt for the time being).

@brand, as kink said, both. Not sure how stages would be set to accommodate for that though

also thank IKE this is a social thread lol

 

[BrandX]

So is this game more on the general idea? Cause Im more of on the artistic side of games then the mechanics lol

Not sure how much I can say about mechanics that hasnt already been said lol

Basically Im saying I want to continue discussing, but Im not sure what to sugfest from a mechanic standpoint XD

 

[Kink-Link5]

Kink's Chain Hierarchy. Refer to the numberpad on your keyboard for numeric dirreciton notation. [] indicates a tilt input, while {} indicates a smash input:

5A or [2]A -> [A] or 5B -> {A} or -> {B} -> Any C

Where A and B are normal attacks and C is a special attack

High hitlag leads to easy "hitconfirms" but DI accountability makes the proper followup different every time.

 

[JOE!]

Man, I offered to help a while back too and you guys didn't respond

Anywho, what you should think about is how DI would impact the gameplay of a TFG, and how much do you want it to be smash/tfg?

 

[DrinkingFood]

This is all mostly theoretical. Like I said I wouldn't know if I could ever actually go full blown into developing a game, because everything I do I either do full steam ahead or it ends up absolute **** quality or doesn't get done. We're mostly just discussion ideas right now though. You're free to throw in ideas for fun and for discussion, that's what we're doing.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Almost entirely smash (biased), with touches of TFG combos and life system.

I'm also biased in proposing mechanics akin to those of Tasofro fighters.

 

[DrinkingFood]

And potentially some hints of TFG mechanics like airdashes and airblocks/grabs.

 

[BrandX]

I was thnking, since the game doesnt sound combo heavy, there doesnt seem to be any need for a burst system lol

 

[Kink-Link5]

I was thnking, since the game doest sound combo heavy, there doesnt seem to be any need for a burst system lol

Nah this isn't a "put the controller down and go make tea while you're stuck in a loop" sort of game we're theory crafting here.

 

[DrinkingFood]

The game wouldn't necessarily be light on combos, but they would just be very dynamic and situation dependent, as well as dependent on the skill and reactions of the opponent.
But yeah as kink hinted at combos would most definitely not be skull girls crazy. More like they are in smash (likely a bit longer) where a few hits either puts you in a very bad position or a few more hits will get you offstage.

 

[JOE!]

I was thnking, since the game doest sound combo heavy, there doesnt seem to be any need for a burst system lol

Seeing as it will have DI / heavy smash mechanics, I'd agree you don't need an anti-combo mechanic as 90% of all combos done would be DI-reads more than true combos. The hitstun "bar" idea however could be fun with it being character-dependant: some characters could have more wiggle room (lets say Fox), while other characters could actually drain the attacker's hitstun quicker (Bowser, making him a bit tougher overall).

 

[BrandX]

So for the most part, the combos will be situational. Since you were mentioning a super bar, what about adding a cancel system (like Guilty Gears roman cancel) to extend ground combos? Or is that a bit much lol

 

[DrinkingFood]

Or just keep it simple and don't assign unnecessary numbers everywhere. IE make weight have more than a linear impact on hitstun, perhaps a low exponential rate that only shows an actual exponential effect at high damage.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'd be for an Arcana Heart Homing Cancel.

Spoiler

biased

Food: "Keep it simple" is a misnomer. Smash's knockback and hitstun mechanics are quite extensive formulas. Having hitstun's formula modified by a character-dependent universal variable would be a way to simplify the coding of it though.

Also there is always the possibility of holding off on some ideas for, well 1.) until/if this ever gets to happen and we can get an indie team together, and 2.) the possibility of having more than one game. Trying to include everything from everything all at once could easily and quickly get out of hand. One game could have all the concepts of Smash knockback scaling and stage blast zones and all that stuff with touches of TFG mechanics, and another could be strictly a health bar fighter with the one of other combo mechanics I proposed.

I don't like the word Indie so **** it we're doing this as a weeaboo-*** Doujin group. We're much more "friends sharing an interest" than "small-name dev studio" anyway.

 

[BrandX]

I'd be for an Arcana Heart Homing Cancel.

Spoiler

biased

Food: "Keep it simple" is a misnomer. Smash's knockback and hitstun mechanics are quite extensive formulas. Having hitstun's formula modified by a character-dependent universal variable would be a way to simplify the coding of it though.

Also there is always the possibility of holding off on some ideas for, well 1.) until/if this ever gets to happen and we can get an indy team together, and 2.) the possibility of having more than 1 game. Trying to include everything from everything all at once could easily and quickly get out of hand.

That does sound reasonable, better to hold some ideas to keep other possible games fresh lol

Also lulz arcana heart

 

[DrinkingFood]

Yeah I know that. By simple I mean, "as few variables as possible"
Balancing can be done on a universal scale through the forumlas to remove general game emphasis from certain strategies and to certain characters through a small number of variables, rather than have more of the game be governed by a large number of variables which have seemingly no basis for their values except one of a plethora of ways the move/character property could be balanced.

Could always do a smash influenced TFG and then a TFG influenced smash. The one I've mostly been discussing was of course the TFG inspired smash-style game.
We could call them TFGxSSB and SSBxTFG

Also having weight play a larger factor in hitstun directly rather than a simply a proportional one through knockback as in smash would work for that. I've always thought that fatties are too easily comboed for how well a big person should be able to resist heavy hits anyways.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Maybe have project codenames for them like that, but with an actual creative and story group to make it more than a "cheap fangame trying too hard to imitate the original but ultimately falling flat."

Like let's just think what we need just to get started:

Creative Directors
Story Writers
Concept art for characters and stages
Coders
Spriters
A sound team in some fashion
???

And in our credits we can say stuff like

"Game Engine Coding (GIVE THIS GUY PROPS)
JOE!"

Oh and we can get noirscythe to help tell us how bad our OST is

Oh **** 4K milestone

 

[JOE!]

Lets have weight effect both knockback and hitstun duration as a universal variable. The former aspect would only matter at higher %/Damage, and the latter is a tiny difference, but over time/hits makes a big difference for heavies/people who are general combo-food.

Movement properties will be split into Ground (dashing/walking/etc) / Air (general air movement/air dash) / Fall (fall speed and possibly jump speed?) / Traction (character's slipperiness / counter to knockback at points?).

[collapse=Moveset]
Key: Numbers correspond to the numpad. Ground Attacks , Air Attacks. [] = Tilt, {} = Smash.

Punch
A 5
[A] 4 / 8 / 6 / 2
{A} 4 / 8 / 6 / 2
A 5
[A] 4 / 8 / 6 / 2
{A} 4 / 8 / 6 / 2

Kick
B 5
4 / 8 / 6 / 2
{B} 4 / 8 / 6 / 2
B 5
4 / 8 / 6 / 2
{B} 4 / 8 / 6 / 2

Special
C 5
[C] 4 / 8 / 6 / 2
{C} 4 / 8 / 6 / 2
C 5
[C] 4 / 8 / 6 / 2
{C} 4 / 8 / 6 / 2

Super
AB
AC
BC
[/collapse]

 

[Rikana]

Dafuq just happened?

 

[DrinkingFood]

There, exactly what joe had in his spoiler.
That was the idea of a combo system I had in mind.
I never got around to deciding in what particular order they combo into each other and how the hierarchy would work exactly, but what I thought would have maybe looked liked A5/B5 -> [A]#/# -> {A}#/{B}# -> Any C -> Any Super
Or perhaps A of every tier would also be able to cancel into a B before moving onto the next tier, which would make combos generally longer and have more options
Or both where power characters don't get the A -> B option but fast, relatively combo-heavy characters do.
Might have been what Kink was suggesting, I got a little confused by the specific example you gave lol.

Of course that looks a bit over the top for a combo system in a smash inspired game but remember that DI is a factor here when it is not in TFGs.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I didn't give a specific example. I have the general combo structure :

Standing or Crouching A -> Tilted A or Standing B -> Smashed A or Tilted B -> Smashed B -> C -> Super


Also also, high hitlag and combos chaining slowly to open room for DIing is a further departure from most fighting games, where the combos are all "Memorise this input sequence and carry it out quickly"

 

[DrinkingFood]

Oh it was the crouching that through me off, I saw that and it made my think it was something specific.
Why do you put crouching by itself? I would put it just with the other tilts.
Well actually with my control scheme it wouldn't give separate attacks, so I was thinking too much in that scheme and it was confusing me. Down would give a different directional input, with crouching only being a kind of movement.
Also the tier level being upped by one for B inputs was something I was tossing around earlier.