Project M Social Thread

[Slashy]

Because it benefits everyone, even just plain vBrawl players, if smash gets more attention.
Remember that players unfamiliar with a series, like smash, group the games together because they don't know anything about them. If they're thinking more about smash, because Melee had an EVO showing, they're also thinking more about Brawl/Project:M and possibly smash64 as well. If anything, any new players melee picks up for smash at EVO will migrate here due to the general desire to play up-to-date games that a lot of players have and because the two are so similar, and Project:M's accessibility will make that a reality.

Light press for running around while spraying. Full press for standing in place and angling the spray.

Technically you can walk around while using full press, try pausing and unpausing while holding R

 

[Hylian]

1. What. Explain. I don't see it. He has no vertical recovery. His recovery felt more like 64 Link's.

2. What other tools are used for shield pressuring thats just as effective?

3. He felt like a fast faller. Definitely didn't feel like Young Link's weight.

Was the video not enough to show you? He can stay on the bottom of FoD for like 10+ seconds and make it back EASILY. He can make it back from ANYWHERE on ANY stage. You just aren't familiar with AGTing it seems.

2. You have more control over bombs and can use them to shield pressure better than you could in melee with instant throws(again, probably a mechanic you aren't familiar with) and AGTs. You have arrow bombs, zair bombs etc etc. TL also wasn't designed to be good at shield pressure, he's very good at poking in and out with items and then dashing in for quick combos.

3. I'm not positive but I don't believe his fall speed changed. Could be wrong, need to confirm.

 

[hotdogturtle]

His recovery felt more like 64 Link's.

Congratulations, you got what they were aiming for.

Edit: So I gotta do some shifty bomb trick to make his recovery decent?

Yes. This is Smash, there are a lot of things that are more complex than "press 1 button for auto-recovery". You're better off learning it, because it gives him one of the best recoveries in the game. But if it's really a problem for you, you can choose a different character.

 

[Slashy]

I wish Game and Watch had a recovery like Toon Link's

 

[SinisterB]

more Toon Link johns huh

get 'em dazrin

 

[bubbaking]

There is one factor some of you may not be considering, which is part of why it's so hard to compare P:M TL to YL. On FoD, if TL is too low, he has to bomb jump, hurting himself, in order to recover. YL can just tether the side and then upB (and his goes way higher). Technically, YL's recovery was just as good and easier.

Edit: And as Laijin said, YL could even tether the bottom of FoD, WJ off it, and then upB to recover. TL has to bomb jump. Laijin's words aren't completely unfounded.

 

[Stevo]

I remember when I first unlocked Ness in ssb64. I thought his recovery sucked then I found out you could hit yourself with his pk thunder.



I am not really a fan of toon link's recovery compared to young link's either, though. Mostly cause I am an old melee player who dislikes change and brawl stuff for no reason.

 

[SinisterB]

then realized it still sucked

it's not too shabby now, though

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, but Ness doesn't hurt himself.

@Laijin: Yes, this is Project M(elee), but unfortunately, the character you are complaining about is called Toon Link, not Young Link. The PMBR isn't exactly entitled to recreate the character as YL was in Melee, although they did bring in some glaring similarities.

 

[Laijin]

Was the video not enough to show you? He can stay on the bottom of FoD for like 10+ seconds and make it back EASILY. He can make it back from ANYWHERE on ANY stage. You just aren't familiar with AGTing it seems.

2. You have more control over bombs and can use them to shield pressure better than you could in melee with instant throws(again, probably a mechanic you aren't familiar with) and AGTs. You have arrow bombs, zair bombs etc etc. TL also wasn't designed to be good at shield pressure, he's very good at poking in and out with items and then dashing in for quick combos.

3. I'm not positive but I don't believe his fall speed changed. Could be wrong, need to confirm.

I have no idea what any of those are. Are those from brawl?

Congratulations, you got what they were aiming for.



Yes. This is Smash, there are a lot of things that are more complex than "press 1 button for auto-recovery". You're better off learning it, because it gives him one of the best recoveries in the game. But if it's really a problem for you, you can choose a different character.

That leaves a really huge disgusting flavor in my mouth. 64 Link's recovery doesn't really fit YL's playstyle, or hell even Toon Link. No clue what you guys are even going for =\

Basically the character plays nearly nothing like Young Link. The only thing that is similar is his n-air. Thats about it. I don't play Brawl, if you're going for a mix of the two then obviously your staying away from YL as far as possible so it seems. And thats pretty depressing since the game is called Project Melee after all, minus the most fun character in the game(Young Link)

Edit: Well. Thats all my opinion at least. I feel pretty strongly about Young Link and I know his strengths and weaknesses in and out. But thats fine. Its just disappointing I don't have much fun playing Toon Link.

 

[Zef]

how the heck do i aerial glide toss

 

[GMaster171]

Air dodge in a direction, throw item any where. If you do it quick enough, you get a small boost in the air, while still being free to act.

 

[Zef]

thanks, i thought so, but wasnt quite sure

 

[Stevo]

then realized it still sucked

it's not too shabby now, though

yeah pretty much lol

 

[Kink-Link5]

ooh oohhh

Am I too late to discuss making every character have to take 14% to recover?

 

[Zef]

woo, we're at $21k

 

[Stevo]

gogogogo!!!

 

[bubbaking]

So I got a little bit of time with the game, not too much. But there are three HUGE GLARING PROBLEMS with Toon Link that in my opinion are completely INEXCUSABLE and should fixed ASAP.

[COLLAPSE="Why Toon Link is not Young Link"]
1. His recovery. DA FUQ. Who the hell designed this and thought it was good idea? Please excuse my language but seriously. DA FUQ. You realize Young Link had easily one of the best recoveries in the game right? His Up-B could be used for edge guarding as well. Not only was he able to go very far with his Up-B, but the last hit on it was very powerful. He has also had one of the best wall jumps in the game, allowing him to the hookshot walljump even from the bottom of FoD. Obviously he can't do that anymore seeing how his Up B only takes him 2 pixels vertically in the air now. I find it EXTREMELY unfair that the game is called Project Melee, all of the high tier characters got to keep their Melee Recoveries, yet when it came to Toon Link, whoever the hell is in charge of designing him is seemingly making the worst possible decisions ever. Just give him back his Up-B. There is absolutely no reason Toon Link should have one of the worst recoveries in the game, when his melee version had one of the best. This is very disheartening for Young Link players to see their character's recovery turn to complete, absolutely useless ****ing garbage. Honestly, no competent Young Link player gives a **** whether or not his Up-B is a kill move. No one. So long as he has a good recovery.
-end rant-
Sorry if I offended anyone, but obviously I care enough about the project to be upset about it.
tl;dr: Toon Link's recovery is ***. Da fuq. Fix this please. Make it more like Young Link.

2. This is something that was probably overlooked, but equally as important as the first fact. His projectiles, mainly his bombs, travel WAY TOO ****ING FAST. Its like if you took Young Link's bomb, turned up the travel speed to 100 BILLION ****ING MPH and gave it to P:M Toon Link. Even though it travel's further than Young Link's, the speed at which it travels makes it literally and completely impossible to regrab the bomb after it hits someone's shield. In fact, I don't even think the bombs even bounce more than 2 pixels off someone's shield or to a grabbable distance. Re-grabbing the bombs off of shields is a VERY STAPLE CORE OF YOUNG LINK. Its literally almost as important as Falco's short hop lasers or Fox's Waveshine. You gave both of those characters there core tools from melee, so not give Toon Link back his tools too? I'm not too upset with this one because it was probably overlooked. But its something that NEEDS TO GET DONE. Its completely inexcusable if its not there seeing as how core it is to Young Link's gameplay in melee.

tl;dr: Slow down the bomb speed. Make them more floaty. Make sure the boomerangs work the same and I can sweet spot them. Bombs have multiple hits now right? Thats a step in the right direction. Remember, the goal is I have to be able to easily regrab the bombs as they bounce off the opponent's shield. Its very staple part of Young Link's playstyle and very important for keeping pressure on his opponents.

3. Even though they say his floatiness is the same as Young Link, it just doesn't feel that way at all. Sure the game feels different overall, but Young Link DEFINITELY feels like I'm playing a super fast faller rather than a floaty, speedy kid. Can anyone shed some light on this?
[/COLLAPSE]

Yeah basically my biggest two issues right now are 1 and 2 and those are keeping Toon Link from feeling almost anything like Young Link. Also can I please get back my multiple hits on his b-air? This single hit garbage doesn't work for shield pressure. Young Link is all about shield pressure and right now Toon Link doesn't do it justice.

1. The new aerial upB gives TL a needed horizontal KO option that he didn't have before. In Melee, YL's strongest horizontal KO options were probably dsmash, fsmash, and DA, but their KB was pretty lackluster and they were obviously restricted to use on the ground. All of his aerial KO options (uair and dair), a.k.a. the moves he most often comboed into, were vertical KO moves, which meant he had a lot of trouble killing FFers. Now, with his new P:M upB, TL can combo both into vertical AND horizontal KO moves. Now you have access to bomb/dthrow > uair/dair/upB.
2. I don't know much about this so I don't know how this impacts TL's shield pressure game, but look at the bright side. If the bombs actually travel farther now, this improves TL's camping game, and we all know how important that is.
3. I actually think you're imagining this one.

I can sympathize completely with your loss over TL's bair. I also used YL's bair a LOT in Melee. It was fast, safe, and could set up some nice gimp situations. Still, I think TL's current bair can actually kill now, but I'm not sure. Could somebody confirm?

Also, don't ignore buffs that have possibly improved TL's game. I'm not too sure on this, but I believe TL's arrows are much better for comboing than YL's arrows were, and they inflict passive damage on opponents who walk over them while they're stuck in the ground. In addition, don't quote me on this, but I believe TL still has his 'Quick-draw' technique from vBrawl. Of course, he also has usable glide tosses and AGTs.

Edit: Oh, and his zair is better as a CQC move now.

 

[KayB]

get 'em dazrin

Beat me to it.

Still want Melee tethers though.

 

[Shadic]

Melee tethers would/will happen if/when we can.

TL has a lot of tricks that YL never had, and loses relatively little in return. He's a much more powerful character with a lot better setups, generally quicker, has YL's physics (that was apparently a debate?), and feels like his own character.

The super-strong UpB, the cool Wind Waker jabs, 64 Zelda Dtilt stab, awesome Fsmash, the comboing Bair, strong Fair, etc.

 

[bubbaking]

1. Toon Link has one of the best recoveries in the game.

This is a gross overstatement.

He can make it back from ANYWHERE on ANY stage.

"Anywhere" is inaccurate. This character isn't the new age Samus or Mewtwo. His recovery IS quite decent though, even if he has to continually damage himself and harm his own survivability for it to be so.

Yes. This is Smash, there are a lot of things that are more complex than "press 1 button for auto-recovery". You're better off learning it, because it gives him one of the best recoveries in the game. But if it's really a problem for you, you can choose a different character.

Laijin already stated that he plays a good deal of Smash, and he does seem to know what he's talking about. YL's recovery was never a "1 button auto-recovery". It had its own level of complexity, mostly through the Melee tether system. Again, "one of the best recoveries in the game" is an overestimation. That said, I agree that if Laijin isn't willing to lean AGTs, he's better off learning a different char.

I have no idea what any of those are. Are those from brawl?

Yes.

Edit: To be more specific, GTs are straight from vBrawl. AGTs, I believe, are also straight from vBrawl, but combined with Melee's/P:M's AD mechanics, they allow aerial movement.

Basically the character plays nearly nothing like Young Link. The only thing that is similar is his n-air. Thats about it. I don't play Brawl, if you're going for a mix of the two then obviously your staying away from YL as far as possible so it seems. And thats pretty depressing since the game is called Project Melee after all, minus the most fun character in the game(Young Link)

Edit: Well. Thats all my opinion at least. I feel pretty strongly about Young Link and I know his strengths and weaknesses in and out. But thats fine. Its just disappointing I don't have much fun playing Toon Link.

My friend had similar expectations, except he was hoping that TL would be a bit more like vBrawl TL (his secondary) since the name was kept and all. Needless to say, he was quite disappointed and ended up dropping the character. It wasn't because of the difficulty of the techniques. He'd mastered vBrawl TL's techs, such as DAC item tosses which are TL's applicable, yet much harder, version of GTs. He just didn't like the char's new style.

 

[SinisterB]

By the way daz made a pretty detailed video all about AGT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e1ufbZh0Fc

check it out if you need some tips

I agree with bubba in the sense that it isn't always difficult to edgeguard, but I mean he can still recover from a lot of places. It's really good in most situations and decent overall with it's mix up options, but still fairly limited and can be reliably stuffed by waiting and punishing accordingly. Tether leaves him open for a second making TL prone to quick attacks (Shine, Ness' DAir...), and Spin attack can be easily hogged if there isn't a bomb to cover him. But just for the record I've seen dazrin recover from like everywhere including the bottom corners lol, lot's of time to edgeguard but you can't leave a TL unattended.

Spoiler

420th view baby

 

[Laijin]

Melee tethers would/will happen if/when we can.

TL has a lot of tricks that YL never had, and loses relatively little in return. He's a much more powerful character with a lot better setups, generally quicker, has YL's physics (that was apparently a debate?), and feels like his own character.

The super-strong UpB, the cool Wind Waker jabs, 64 Zelda Dtilt stab, awesome Fsmash, the comboing Bair, strong Fair, etc.

Sure you might say he's a better character than Young Link. You can make that argument. But at the same time it feels like the goal with this character is to make it its own completely unique character. The integrity of both Toon Link AND Young Link are destroyed with this new character(yes, new character. Because thats what he basically is) which is pretty surprising considering the game is called Project: Melee, and they kept the integrity of Sheik, Fox, Falco and all of the other high tiers from melee intact. You might as well rename him to something entirely else since its sorta false advertisement ya know?

But anyways. Like I said, you can argue he is a better character, and I can disagree all day. Young Link had one of the best shield pressure options amongst the mid-lower tiers and I really don't Toon Link is capable of even closely replicating that with his tools. Their strengths are entirely different. I don't feel he has better setups, Y-link could not only chain and combo his b-air easily but also use it as shield pressure. About the only thing I could say about the character that he actually does better than Young Link is his f-air is probably a lot better and he can kill slightly easier. Thats about it though.

tl;dr: Pressure options, Young Link wins hands down and thats what that character was all about. The closest character to that now is Adult Link, but even that is just a shadow of how Young Link was. I thought the original goal of this character was to create a mix between Young Link and Toon Link and take the best of both worlds to please both Brawl and Melee players? But it seems like thats not really happening =\

I know its a new game, but you can't really expect me to have knowledge of brawl techniques when I'm clearly a melee player and can only look at the game and compare it to what I know. In the end, TL and YL players both are extremely unsatifed apparently with this character. He doesn't fit to either play style so it seems, especially not Young Link. Thats a little bit of a problem. If you guys wanna create a new character with all these tools then do so, however it would be nice if you kept the integrity of the characters intact. Its a little unfair the high tiers got that treatment and not us.

 

[Kati]

The super-strong UpB, the cool Wind Waker jabs, 64 Zelda Dtilt stab, awesome Fsmash, the comboing Bair, strong Fair, etc.

I personally don't like how much the bomb-jumping over shadows his conventional recovery, but everything Shadic mentioned above adds up to too much greatness.

I kind've skimmed over some of the other replies, but I think the best way to sum it up is that P:M TL is an original take on Link due to having so many previous incarnations used as foundations.

*edit* you came to that conclusion on your own... nm me.

 

[Laijin]

By the way daz made a pretty detailed video all about AGT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e1ufbZh0Fc

check it out if you need some tips

I agree with bubba in the sense that it isn't always difficult to edgeguard, but I mean he can still recover from a lot of places. It's really good in most situations and decent overall with it's mix up options, but still fairly limited and can be reliably stuffed by waiting and punishing accordingly. Tether leaves him open for a second making TL prone to quick attacks (Shine, Ness' DAir...), and Spin attack can be easily hogged if there isn't a bomb to cover him. But just for the record I've seen dazrin recover from like everywhere including the bottom corners lol, lot's of time to edgeguard but you can't leave a TL unattended.

Spoiler

420th view baby

Interesting. I'll have to try this out.
But I don't really like the extra effort you have to make in order to make his recovery decent. There isn't a single character in melee that has a difficult recovery to control. Not trying to come off as lazy, just saying the extra effort doesn't really have to be there. Just cause it can be difficult doesn't mean it has to be.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

So I got a little bit of time with the game, not too much. But there are three HUGE GLARING PROBLEMS with Toon Link that in my opinion are completely INEXCUSABLE and should fixed ASAP.

1. His recovery. DA FUQ. Who the hell designed this and thought it was good idea? Please excuse my language but seriously. DA FUQ. You realize Young Link had easily one of the best recoveries in the game right? His Up-B could be used for edge guarding as well. Not only was he able to go very far with his Up-B, but the last hit on it was very powerful. He has also had one of the best wall jumps in the game, allowing him to the hookshot walljump even from the bottom of FoD. Obviously he can't do that anymore seeing how his Up B only takes him 2 pixels vertically in the air now. I find it EXTREMELY unfair that the game is called Project Melee, all of the high tier characters got to keep their Melee Recoveries, yet when it came to Toon Link, whoever the hell is in charge of designing him is seemingly making the worst possible decisions ever. Just give him back his Up-B. There is absolutely no reason Toon Link should have one of the worst recoveries in the game, when his melee version had one of the best. This is very disheartening for Young Link players to see their character's recovery turn to complete, absolutely useless ****ing garbage. Honestly, no competent Young Link player gives a **** whether or not his Up-B is a kill move. No one. So long as he has a good recovery.
-end rant-
Sorry if I offended anyone, but obviously I care enough about the project to be upset about it.
tl;dr: Toon Link's recovery is ***. Da fuq. Fix this please. Make it more like Young Link.

2. This is something that was probably overlooked, but equally as important as the first fact. His projectiles, mainly his bombs, travel WAY TOO ****ING FAST. Its like if you took Young Link's bomb, turned up the travel speed to 100 BILLION ****ING MPH and gave it to P:M Toon Link. Even though it travel's further than Young Link's, the speed at which it travels makes it literally and completely impossible to regrab the bomb after it hits someone's shield. In fact, I don't even think the bombs even bounce more than 2 pixels off someone's shield or to a grabbable distance. Re-grabbing the bombs off of shields is a VERY STAPLE CORE OF YOUNG LINK. Its literally almost as important as Falco's short hop lasers or Fox's Waveshine. You gave both of those characters there core tools from melee, so not give Toon Link back his tools too? I'm not too upset with this one because it was probably overlooked. But its something that NEEDS TO GET DONE. Its completely inexcusable if its not there seeing as how core it is to Young Link's gameplay in melee.

tl;dr: Slow down the bomb speed. Make them more floaty. Make sure the boomerangs work the same and I can sweet spot them. Bombs have multiple hits now right? Thats a step in the right direction. Remember, the goal is I have to be able to easily regrab the bombs as they bounce off the opponent's shield. Its very staple part of Young Link's playstyle and very important for keeping pressure on his opponents.

3. Even though they say his floatiness is the same as Young Link, it just doesn't feel that way at all. Sure the game feels different overall, but Young Link DEFINITELY feels like I'm playing a super fast faller rather than a floaty, speedy kid. Can anyone shed some light on this?


Yeah basically my biggest two issues right now are 1 and 2 and those are keeping Toon Link from feeling almost anything like Young Link. Also can I please get back my multiple hits on his b-air? This single hit garbage doesn't work for shield pressure. Young Link is all about shield pressure and right now Toon Link doesn't do it justice.

lol, learn to AGT

This is not melee. It's Project M.

 

[Shadic]

The integrity of both Toon Link AND Young Link are destroyed with this new character(yes, new character. Because thats what he basically is)

You mean Toon Link isn't Young Link?

 

[hotdogturtle]

You mean Toon Link isn't Young Link?

Have you even played this game?
[COLLAPSE="..."]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[DMG]

FALSE ADVERTISING

I was told Ike would be returning







But this Broccoli Sword guy is way too good to be Ike

 

[hotdogturtle]

FALSE ADVERTISING

I was told Ike would be returning

You want Ike? Here's your Ike.

 

[`dazrin]

Everyone- please stop attacking Laijin.
He is a veteran Young Link player, and was actually a huge inspiration (among others such as Jash, and Wak) for me and is largely responsible for giving me the passion and drive to actually pick up Young Link seriously in the first place (I actually modeled my Young Link in melee after his style). It is only natural that he would complain that Toon Link is different than Young Link in many areas having been accustomed to Young Link for so many years.

Imagine if someone like Axe came to PM only to find that Pikachu was dynamically changed from his Melee counterpart? It's only natural that transitioning from something you've been used to for years and years to something new, but strangely familiar would warrant some complaints. I was actually in the same boat as him when I first learned how they were developing Toon Link back way before I was PMBR. Just like everyone else who has tried Toon Link, I complained about the "bad" recovery and how a finisher up-b was "uncharacteristic" of Young Link. But as I spent more and more time with the character, I grew to love him all over again.

Toon Link isn't Young Link; but he is a breath of fresh air on the YL playstyle which makes him new and exciting- familiar, yet refreshing. No one is going to like it at first when something you are so accustomed to for years changes- (we see this all the time when the UI on a popular website like facebook changes) but over time we get used to the changes and sometimes even start to warm up to them and love them. I can't speak for Laijin, but for me, once I really put some time into learning TL, AGTing and how he works in general, I really started to love Toon Link in PM much more than I ever loved Young Link in Melee. The new tricks and technology are honestly what keep him fun and unique for me. It's going to be somewhat of an "annoyance" at first to learn how to AGT in order to actually start using the character proficiently, but once you learn it, your opinion may quickly change.

Laijin, I encourage you to explore Toon Link and discover his new gameplay with an open mind. Although he's somewhat similar, I completely agree that he's definitely a totally different feel from Melee Young Link, but once you learn how to play him, he's definitely JUST as fun, if not more. I'll be more than happy to help you out or answer any questions that you may have along the way. His recovery is actually much better than you think!!- just spend some time with him

<3

 

[bubbaking]

Everyone- please stop attacking Laijin.
He is a veteran Young Link player, and was actually a huge inspiration (among others such as Jash, and Wak) for me and is largely responsible for giving me the passion and drive to actually pick up Young Link seriously in the first place (I actually modeled my Young Link in melee after his style). It is only natural that he would complain that Toon Link is different than Young Link in many areas having been accustomed to Young Link for so many years.

Daze, if you guys changed Pikachu, then Axe would have very good reason to be mad at you because Pikachu is still Pikachu, but this isn't the same case at all. This is Toon Link, not Young Link. Perhaps the Roy players should come on here and complain about how Ike =/= Roy or maybe someone should ask why Lucario =/= Mewtwo. Not EVERY Melee player is gonna find the char he used to love in P:M. That's a harsh fact. I don't think anyone was "attacking" Laijin. I know I most certainly wasn't; I actually understood his rage. However, you being his fanboy doesn't earn him any special treatment.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I don't see how the Ike to Roy comparison makes any sense whatsoever, as an analogy to comparing Toon Link and Young Link.

Young Link is in essence a more agile, weaker Link with multihit bombs to secure followups

Toon Link is in essence a more agile, weaker Link with multihit bombs to secure followups

Roy is in essence, a faster falling, weaker Marth with a huge difference in his sword sweetspot system

Ike is in essence, a character with completely different animations than Marth, no similarities in physics, and only vague similarities in having a long sword. It's like comparing Marth to Link.

Yes Toon Link has some differences from Young Link; however, Ike is nothing like Roy aside from now sharing a marginally similar sweetspot system.

 

[Jolteon]

Toon Link does have one of the better recoveries in the game, while maintaining an incredibly useful combo finisher/anti aerial option. This is why it's absolutely paramount that people playtest characters extensively before issuing criticism.

TL has great combos, bnb KO setups, a great neutral game and recovery. He is very solid.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Toon Link's recovery is alright, but it's really nothing special. People cite AGT stuff like he shouldn't get murdered for trying any of that, or that video like every stage has an enormous walljump-able area like FoD. Just...hit him.

 

[GHNeko]

While I agree with that.

it's kinda hard to hit the guy when he's supposed to AGT outside of the range of people's edgehogging abilities, and when he does, he has a pretty good chance of coming back. Cuz it's not like he cant DI or maneuver himself while doing this.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Yooo, can Charizard take 14% whenever he has to recover too? His glide attack is clearly flareblitz and you can just say that his glide is really substitute or something.

 

[DMG]

While I agree with that.

it's kinda hard to hit the guy when he's supposed to AGT outside of the range of people's edgehogging abilities, and when he does, he has a pretty good chance of coming back. Cuz it's not like he cant DI or maneuver himself while doing this.

Not really. I find TL is more limited in his bomb jumping because of how little it helps him horizontally compared to Link. Pulling out a bomb will slow your horizontal momentum, plus the time it takes to bomb jump... Link can feasibly try to bomb jump/multiple times and actually GO somewhere towards the stage because the bomb hits send him horizontally. Bombjumping for TL is almost exclusively a vertical thing: you multi hit upwards which is good and fine but doesn't help going towards the stage (and even with SDI, the distance is not comparable). Combined with the N64 style Upb that is most definitely not amazing horizontally, and he looks lack luster in that regard. Like this character will not survive those knees and slaps and shines.

Toon Link's recovery is alright, but it's really nothing special. People cite AGT stuff like he shouldn't get murdered for trying any of that, or that video like every stage has an enormous walljump-able area like FoD. Just...hit him.

Hit him, or force him to address the horizontal aspect of his recovery.

Not to mention I swear to GOD the timing on his bombjumping is much stricter than Link.

 

[GHNeko]

Yooo, can Charizard take 14% whenever he has to recover too? His glide attack is clearly flareblitz and you can just say that his glide is really substitute or something.

We get it Kink.

You think it's dumb for Tink to take 14% damage to recover through bomb jumping.

Can you making posts like this. <_>

 

[DMG]

Kink, you can SDI the bomb his to take less damage btw. It may be 8-10 damage, but that's still better than always eating the full damage. Combined with damage staling from possibly using them onstage a lot or recovering multiple times with it, and the effect is a bit exaggerated.