ELI-mination
Smash Champion
Preliminary Ike johns from metroid 
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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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bubbaking
Smash Hero
Kels and I agreed to get top 2 in melee and pm at that tournament so it'd be spacies in top 2Spacees strike again.....
You're kidding right? There are plenty of ways in which shines could be redesigned (for better or for worse). You could make them SSB 64 shines that aren't JC-able, or you could make them vBrawl shines that can be rolled or spot-dodged out of, and JC'd, on reflect.....ooooor you could just make them so you can cancel them with any attack in the universe.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Only you would take this seriously. Learn my humor or don't talk to me mother****er.You're kidding right? There are plenty of ways in which shines could be redesigned (for better or for worse). You could make them SSB 64 shines that aren't JC-able, or you could make them vBrawl shines that can be rolled or spot-dodged out of, and JC'd, on reflect.....ooooor you could just make them so you can cancel them with any attack in the universe.
<3 you
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You can agree to it but if I go to that Midwest tourney in Feb, there's no way in hell that's happening especially in P:M.Kels and I agreed to get top 2 in melee and pm at that tournament so it'd be spacies in top 2
GaretHax
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2009
- Messages
- 464
What happened to you Bubba... I remember when you first came onto the PM boards just looking for someone to play, excited and johnless save for transportation. Then you went and played with Eli and have become bitter and full of spacie hate and johns. What did he do to you? What did that monster do to you Bubba!?!?!?
You're kidding right? There are plenty of ways in which shines could be redesigned (for better or for worse). You could make them SSB 64 shines that aren't JC-able, or you could make them vBrawl shines that can be rolled or spot-dodged out of, and JC'd, on reflect.....ooooor you could just make them so you can cancel them with any attack in the universe.
Srs talk I really wanna try zamus she looks fun as all hell.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Ah, my apologies.
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
I corrupt peoples' souls
Or I make them see the light
One of the two
Or I make them see the light
One of the two
Oro?!
Smash Hero
bubbaking
Smash Hero
You know what, you're right. Tbh, I've always disliked the spacees, even when I only played Melee, and I was a little upset that things didn't change in P:M, but I guess I have been becoming more bitter these days.
I guess it's time to change..... 
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Spacie johns will never not be funny, Garet. I don't know how long it's been going on, but soon Bubba will not bubbak about them anymore and accept that they're just dumb because they have free full stage space control and mobility and never have to dedicate to anything. Then he can agree to give buffs to other characters to give them appropriately similar stage control/mobility/safety/coverage options.
Besides, they're still not as dumb as Falcon. At least they're actually good instead of relying 80% on dash dancing until the opponent does something dumb like approach.
Besides, they're still not as dumb as Falcon. At least they're actually good instead of relying 80% on dash dancing until the opponent does something dumb like approach.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
But to be perfectly honest, I think the true source of all my unhappiness is....
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I'm pretty sure spacee johns are more legit than.....Falcon johns.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Counter-attack! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDPNk9SE-eM
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
By the way, I personally am not johning.
I'm simply declaring all johns about other characters illegitimate unless those johns are accompanied by spacies johns simultaneously because spacies are inarguably better than all those other johned about characters. Ike, Lucario, and especially Sonic aren't even that amazing. Ike is pretty good yea, but spacies are def way better. Same goes for Lucario. And Sonic is lol tier.
I'm simply declaring all johns about other characters illegitimate unless those johns are accompanied by spacies johns simultaneously because spacies are inarguably better than all those other johned about characters. Ike, Lucario, and especially Sonic aren't even that amazing. Ike is pretty good yea, but spacies are def way better. Same goes for Lucario. And Sonic is lol tier.
Wavebuster
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2002
- Messages
- 261
Just saying, Zelda's SideB wasn't redesigned on the grounds of being "really good" before.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I'd kind of hate to see fox and falco changed too much. They are the iconic characters that people remember in melee that can do crazy s***.
I'd be ok with changes similar to the PAL version and stuff like adding more landing frames to upb and removing the invincibility from shine.
I'd be ok with changes similar to the PAL version and stuff like adding more landing frames to upb and removing the invincibility from shine.
MattDotZeb
Smash Hero
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Just CP Kage to FD with Lucario Matt c:
Divinokage
Smash Legend
It's not happening in Melee either, fyi.Let's hope you're better in P:M than you are in melee.
I dont think hes as good as Vwins, no way im losing to Lucario lol.
And I finally got the Falco matchup on lock recently, I had a flash of enlightenment with this.
leelue
Smash Lord
ILink
It's a strong man who can openly adjust his opinion online. I believe you were once openly against changing them, not long ago?
+respect for compromise
It's a strong man who can openly adjust his opinion online. I believe you were once openly against changing them, not long ago?
+respect for compromise
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Uhhh, more like it's a weak man who can't...
MaxThunder
PM Support
Kage with the hype thrash talk.
Now let's hope he doesn't run into any Ikes.
About spacies: Changing them to PAL would make next to no difference. But it would still piss of a lot of melee spacie mains. I'm still of the opinion that bringer everyone up to around their level is the best option.
Now let's hope he doesn't run into any Ikes.
About spacies: Changing them to PAL would make next to no difference. But it would still piss of a lot of melee spacie mains. I'm still of the opinion that bringer everyone up to around their level is the best option.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Ike = Ganon
C'mon, we all know it was bound to happen once Ganon finally pulled out that sword.
C'mon, we all know it was bound to happen once Ganon finally pulled out that sword.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
To bring everyone up to spacy level we would probably have to give everyone a shine.
I can't recall if I ever made my opinion public here honestly. Like I said, I'd personally hate to see them changed because of how symbolic of melee they are, and this is basically its spiritual successor.
With that being said, I can see how stupid good they can be and why some tweaks could be made.
Or make a character that's a comination of Ike Lucario and Sonic + Puff Rest
bubbaking
Smash Hero
"Symbolism" is subjective. I could say that Samus and Sheik are symbolic of Melee for me (and they are). Perhaps the spacees are 'symbolic' simply because they were always at the top. Also, "spiritual successor" does not have to equal "same as" in most aspects.
/Just Sayin'...
That being said, I want my 4th character already.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well a few characters will always dominate no matter how you try to balance a fighter. If you change one move from one character who knows how that affects every matchup. I'd say it's fine the way they are and everyone just needs to L2P.
Arcansi
Smash Champion
This has no logic behind it.
Assume I balance a game of 4 characters where matchups end up like this.
Char 1 (C1 from now on, C2, C3, C4.) vs C2 = 25/75; C1 vs C3 = 50/50; C1 vs C4 = 75/25.
C2 vs C3: 25/75; C2 vs C4 50/50.
C3 vs C4 75/25.
These are all reasonable matchups, and even with a +/- 10/10 on all of them (50/50 - 40/60 or 60-40, for instance.) You will have little domination without outside imbalance.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
We're having another announcement tonight on VGbootcamp's stream in ~2 hours!
Stuff like 25-75 MUs everywhere is balancing to extremes, which is a terrible thing nobody in their right mind should do. It's why 2.1 sonic was a mess, he either bodied right through some characters or would be damn near useless against others.
Arcansi
Smash Champion
It's not a great design approach, but you can replace 25 and 75 with 40 60 if you would like. You still get the same result.
I just used those numbers to make it easier to understand while writing it.
It should be noted with 60/40 instead of 75/25 the game looks REALLY balanced.
Stevo
Smash Champion
nobody even can agree as to what 25-75 even means, so why are we even discussing these things?
75-25 to me would be like Falco vs DK or Sheik vs Bowser in melee. imo. So any game with 4 characters that has 2 matchups that bad would not seem balanced to me lol.
What Kage said was relatively accurate. When he says "Dominate" what he means is that there will always be 1 or more best character(s) in a game. You will never be able to balance it perfectly.
Edit: also hype for the Stream tonight
75-25 to me would be like Falco vs DK or Sheik vs Bowser in melee. imo. So any game with 4 characters that has 2 matchups that bad would not seem balanced to me lol.
What Kage said was relatively accurate. When he says "Dominate" what he means is that there will always be 1 or more best character(s) in a game. You will never be able to balance it perfectly.
Edit: also hype for the Stream tonight
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Polarizing design is never fun for any party involved. Like Zelda is "If you don't get walled out by her dumb anti airs you can just use one move repeatedly to get through her stuff."
Sheik Ganon is like a +3 matchup and both are high/okay characters.
Sheik Ganon is like a +3 matchup and both are high/okay characters.
Arcansi
Smash Champion
It's dependant on the community playing the game. Having a game be like my original example exemplifies character choice, which is probably an inferior game design direction, I'll agree.
Not logically correct. Rock Paper Scissors is perfectly balanced, as is my example above.
It may not be the BEST way to make a game perfectly balanced, but it IS perfectly balanced.
Yeah what he said. There's never been a perfectly balanced fighting game to ever exist, and you're never ever going to completely get matchups down when making one, because over time someone's going to some sort of tech that can range from making a matchup slightly easier, to outright changing the entire metagame. Remember, melee took a few years before characters who were not sheik were considered top tier.
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