Project M Social Thread

[Stevo]

I don't even think we should look at it that way, that we are balancing to a specific character on the melee tier list. Be it Fox or Falcon. The Tier list in melee is based on the specific cast of melee at a given time regarding how well they are expected to do in tournament.

PMBR should be(and probably are) trying to simply make a balanced cast overall. Melee top tier are supposed to stay the same, so the PMBR has to make the other characters viable with that in mind, but it's not specifically they are trying to make every character as good as fox or as good as falcon or what have you.

It's a new game, different tier lists are going to happen regardless. there will always be characters "better" than others. What if it ends up fox has a hard counter in Project M that he didn't have in Melee? He will probably not be on the top, regardless of him being "too good" or whatever.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Why don't they just make the damage and knockback the same as it is when not charged and increase the range, increase speed, or add additional affects (like invincibility, super armor, adding IASA, etc) depending on the smash? It would be far more interesting, if slightly less canon.

Obviously would need to be balanced properly, so don't go off on me about suggesting god moves.

This isn't a balance change, it's a design change to make OU more interesting.

 

[Oracle]

Balderdash. Easy to beat scrubs with and simple to play, requiring no fundamental understanding of the game is like, Link spamming Up-B.

Clearly you haven't played many falcos. The only actual falco mains who play smart are like, pp and mango lol.

Lucas is good. Fox and Falco and Pit and Sheik and Peach and Jigglypuff and Link and Mario and Lucario and probably Wolf are better.

But other than the space animals, lucas' difference in power with most of those characters is negligible, which is what balance is. If i'm better than someone playing any of those characters, I'll probably still beat them. most of the posters here never take player skill into account, which is the main reason I don't post here much

 

[Wavebuster]

When would this not have saved you in Melee, lolz?

Not all stages played in tourney have defined walls. "lolz"

 

[trash?]

One thing to remember about balancing: all balances to a character should be keeping the idea in mind that their strength is still dependent on how other characters play. Spacies are easy to gimp, but few melee character could really take advantage of it enough to make a positive matchup. Now, there's a good number of characters that can, because they all have the tools necessary to work. It's not even really "anti-spacie" in particular, because a lot of melee characters that got good in P:M were just characters designed to be played defensively, but failed.

In a sense, it's why, despite spacies being very, very close to their melee counterparts, a small group of people believe they're "worse" in some way: because the characters around them got better.

It's a problem that plagues other fighting games far too often. There's top tiers, with the bottom tiers very clearly supposed to be countering the top tiers but failing, and instead of trying to buff the low tiers, everyone clings to the idea that if they do everything possible to make the best in the game worse at what they do, the game somehow gets better.

I don't entirely agree with keeping the spacies as-is entirely, but I still give props to the PMBR for doing this. It's something nobody else ever has the guts to do, and it'll likely work out better in the long run.

 

[bubbaking]

Not all stages played in tourney have defined walls. "lolz"

Yeah, but most, if not all, stages have tetherable ledges, which is all you need, even with Melee tethers, lolz. Otherwise, stages like Melee BF would have been a pretty big problem. No need to pick on my speech/writing quirks.

I don't entirely agree with keeping the spacies as-is entirely, but I still give props to the PMBR for doing this. It's something nobody else ever has the guts to do, and it'll likely work out better in the long run.

I wouldn't go so far as to give them that much credit. The SDR developers are also leaving the spacees exactly as they are (while slightly nerfing Sheik), and if I wanted to be silly, I'd say that the Minus developers are trying to restore Melee Fox + godlier technology in their mod of the game. It's an interesting goal to leave the spacees at the top, but it's not one that only they are undertaking.

#Fairness

 

[trash?]

I'm mostly saying that under the context of fighting game developers that are not smash. Seriously, SF4 is especially ripe with these problems, most top tiers in older updates are lucky if they're even mid-tier after.

 

[leelue]

I really think you undervalue the ability to snap to the ledge as quickly as possible, as often as possible.
There are all of these nuances that are positives for melee tethers (the biggest of which is recovering from super low), but the efficiency of brawl tethers is real.
Seriously
Smashville is extremely popular, obviously. So is battlefield. Brawl tethers are strictly better there.
Even on FD, the range of brawl tethers matters because of the slant of FD's underbelly

 

[ELI-mination]

The melee spacies are VERY poorly designed. Like the worst possible design any character can have. That's why Fox is basically the best character and there is no stage that he isn't amazing on.

 

[leafbarrett]

The melee spacies are VERY poorly designed. Like the worst possible design any character can have. That's why Fox is basically the best character and there is no stage that he isn't amazing on.

I wonder how many people think you're serious.

 

[Project M]

Hey everyone, there's going to be a 2.5 announcement tonight on VGBootCamp's stream at 7:30pm EST! Also featuring 2.5 gameplay with MD/VA's finest. Be sure to tune in!
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

-PMBR

 

[Juushichi]

But doesn't Eli notoriously hate Fox and Falco?

I mean, if you look at them objectively and compare them to every other character in the Melee cast, they look kinda out of place.

 

[ELI-mination]

I wonder how many people think you're serious.

I am serious.

 

[leelue]

He is serious, this time

I also agree with juu, even though somewhat less than I would have before project m gave lesser characters things that make them stand out (zelda, bowser)

 

[hotdogturtle]

I don't really see why you would complain about lucas needing nerfs when no one plays him at all and the people who do play him aren't winning tournaments.

This is a very well worded post, and I feel like this sentiment applies to a handful of other characters in the demo as well.

 

[ELI-mination]

This whole thing about "buffs" and "nerfs" needs to stop, really.
Like, it's more about the overall design of a character making sense.
Not so much about "make this character better" or "make this character worse"
It should be about good design.

Like I played the most recent build of 2.5 Ike, and I'm not going to give details. But I wouldn't describe Ike as buffed or nerfed. I'd describe him as a character that makes a lot more sense.

 

[Burnsy]

Nerfs or Buffs, I'm just happy that people are actually talking about Lucas.

Also, shoutouts to SHeLL for designing such a great character.

 

[leelue]

I am on the "not nerf or buff but more reasonable character" boat as well. This is one of the best aspects of the current overall direction for project m.
Especially since it lends itself to slightly less complex characters.

 

[leafbarrett]

I am serious.

Fair enough. Considering the general attitude towards them (which I do not share), and my relative inexperience with the regulars here, it's not too hard to see why I might have thought you were trolling.

 

[Giygacoal]

Oh damn, the mythical Project M shared account has appeared once again. ****'s going down.

 

[Yung Mei]

im thinking about using a custom HUD hack, and i just wanted to make sure (since ive never used them before), but these don't desync anything in replays or wifi right?

 

[drsusredfish]

looking at ivys seed bomb. It looks like platforms kinda makes her down b almost useless. It'd be cool if she had the abilltiy to shoot the seed low and the low seed falls slower.

 

[GunBlaze]

Hey everyone, there's going to be a 2.5 announcement tonight on VGBootCamp's stream at 7:30pm EST! Also featuring 2.5 gameplay with MD/VA's finest. Be sure to tune in!
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

-PMBR

Meta Knigh. 'Nuff said

 

[Kink-Link5]

I am on the "not nerf or buff but more reasonable character" boat as well. This is one of the best aspects of the current overall direction for project m.
Especially since it lends itself to slightly less complex characters.

I'm not. There's no reason for a character to be made with intentional character flaws, design based or otherwise.

Fox is good. Shine is one of the few moves that break the rules otherwise governing the game, but Fox is good. Peach is good. Sheik is good. Pit is good. Puff is good. Marth is less good but good-ish.

Other than Zelda, there doesn't seem to be an adamant defense of keeping character flaws ingrained in a character though, so that's good.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Someone needs to post the announcement here, I won't be around for it :/

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

I think it's safe to say the hype will spread here less than a minute after it's announced.

 

[Juushichi]

If you want some bad DDD gameplay to tide you over, I've just uploaded a friendly set of me vs the local Jigglypuff player for your and anyone else's enjoyment. Columbus isn't exactly dead.

I should have a set of my ROB up sometime soon-ish.

 

[GimR]

Smash @ Xanadu is Live on VGBootCamp's channel! Get ready for the Huge Project M announcement at 7:30pm EST!

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

Spread The Word!

 

[9Kplus1]

inb4Elinerfs

 

[leafbarrett]

I'm wondering if the PM staff would be interested in the custom animations I did for Lucario (no important animations, just the taunts, idle pose, etc.)

 

[leafbarrett]

Project M release date confirmed! December 28, 2012!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Complete with a tasty beverage to bring in the new year?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Wait, wat?!

Smooth Criminal

 

[NickRiddle]

ZSS or bust.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Also comfirmed:

Spacie player winning apex

 

[Comeback Kid]

 

[trash?]

I really hope someone's gonna highlight that dance to youtube.
Also, everyone else was right that there's two more characters waiting to be released.

 

[Strong Badam]

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-5880-post-117681.html#pid117681 Release date announced!

 

[Asylum]

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4560/projectmrelease.jpg

 

[Meme]

Awesome, now I can really look up foward to a day for PM 2.5.

The date kind of made chuckle, around here dec 28th is a day that is sort of the equivalent of April Fool's...