Project M Social Thread

[Valuno]

I have been waiting for this project quite a while, really, it's going to be too much fun to play. ^_^

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

So are people going to still work on Brawl- or this?

 

[Veril]

Epic s*** is coming! Project M was mad fun last time I played it. I have extremely high hopes for this.

"Hypes"

The brawl backroom makes me mad... but then I lol. Much love to the melee backroomers though.

So are people going to still work on Brawl- or this?

they are separate projects.

 

[FrozenHobo]

brawl- is something else. this has nothing to do with b-

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I'm just saying are more people going to work on this that the other?

 

[FrozenHobo]

different teams.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Melee's true sequel at last.

it will never take hold. just like B+ and BB failed to do so. regular brawl is the future. accept it

Eww, go away.

 

[Deleted member]

What!? Yessssssssss! Every line in the OP made me smile. <3 Pleeeeease release!

Question: if it's a legitimate Melee 2.0, is there any chance of wavedashing?

 

[ZacTASTIC]

If this is going to be melee 2.0, shouldn't there be more hitstun than there was in Brawl+? The OP says somewhere in the middle of Brawl and B+. Maybe I'm not remembering melee correctly (haven't played in a while), but it seemed like there were more combos than are even in B+.

 

[Sulfur]

If this is going to be melee 2.0, shouldn't there be more hitstun than there was in Brawl+? The OP says somewhere in the middle of Brawl and B+. Maybe I'm not remembering melee correctly (haven't played in a while), but it seemed like there were more combos than are even in B+.

Melee has less hitstun than B+ does. The movement in Melee is just much quicker and fluid, which is what Project M is aiming to capture.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm just saying are more people going to work on this that the other?

Judging by how things are going?

This. Definitely this.

Hell, I'd play this.

Is it going to be l-canceling or ALR?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

If this is going to be melee 2.0, shouldn't there be more hitstun than there was in Brawl+? The OP says somewhere in the middle of Brawl and B+. Maybe I'm not remembering melee correctly (haven't played in a while), but it seemed like there were more combos than are even in B+.

reread the origanal post, other wise this should help.

[*]The directional air dodges have 10 frames of landlag, are able to slide off of edges, and have yielded additional, new techniques beyond that of classic wavedashing and wavelanding.

 

[Sulfur]

Judging by how things are going?

This. Definitely this.

Hell, I'd play this.

Is it going to be l-canceling or ALR?

L-canceling: An entirely new L-canceling code has been programmed through use of a fighter.pac injection. This enables natural feeling L-canceling as a method to reduce half the landing lag of aerials. A current caveat is that this code needs to be built to maintain a 6 frame timer akin to melee, but has not yet been completed. A nice new feature is that upon a successful L-cancel, a small little starish flash appears behind your characters feet.

Hur ya go.

 

[GP&B]

Select Changelist:​

Airdodges: An entirely new air dodge code has been programmed through use of a fighter.pac injection. This air dodge behaves as followed:

• Neutral joystick input = Brawl Air Dodge system
• Directional joystick input = 100% directional air dodge. At the end, you go into special fall.
• The directional air dodges have 10 frames of landlag, are able to slide off of edges, and have yielded additional, new techniques beyond that of classic wavedashing and wavelanding.
• Zairs, and items allowed for aerial glidetosses. By rapidly pressing Z during the startup of the air dodge, your character gains a momentum boost in that direction and goes into zair or item throw.

L-canceling: An entirely new L-canceling code has been programmed through use of a fighter.pac injection. This enables natural feeling L-canceling as a method to reduce half the landing lag of aerials. A current caveat is that this code needs to be built to maintain a 6 frame timer akin to melee, but has not yet been completed. A nice new feature is that upon a successful L-cancel, a small little starish flash appears behind your characters feet.

C'mon guys, read the OP

 

[Cia]

subscribes

I don't think anyone is as excited about this as I am.

 

[shanus]

Fortwaffles, a more melee looking Falco model would be sick. I'd gladly enlist in your help if you are so inclined. Do i need to provide you with my fitmotionetc.pac?

 

[MK26]

This project is doomed to failure.

No no, I actually like the polarizing differences between the two back rooms:

Melee BRoomers: We love your projects and trust us when we say Cape's conservative stage list is the right way to go for Brawl+

Brawl BRoomers: ASDF WHARRGARBL your projects will fail they're only for casuals and will amount to nothing, go back to Brawl

See the difference yet?

sooo...Melee BRoomers: Brawl is a failure, good luck

Brawl BRoomers: STFU N00BZ brawl iz a GOOD GAME!

I wonder if it'd be flipped if we were hacking Melee...

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Shanus nooooo, why did you let out the secret aerial glide toss and zair cancel ATs, nuuuuuuuu.

It was supposed to be a seecreeeeettttt ;_;

 

[superyoshi888]

Wow, this sounds amazing! But....I though ROB doesn't have a Special Fall animation? Is that fixed yet?
...
>>
...
<<
...
Pichu for Project M!

 

[Cia]

sooo...Melee BRoomers: Brawl is a failure, good luck

Brawl BRoomers: STFU N00BZ brawl iz a GOOD GAME!

I wonder if it'd be flipped if we were hacking Melee...

If you hacked melee, i'd be soo hyped. Seeing characters like Young Link + Pichu competing with Fox + Marth.. amazing.

and some of you are over generalizing about the MBR'ers. I happen to be very open-minded and supportive of Workshop projects. (like B+ and project blazbrawl, etc) Some people come here with doubts (Almas) and others come here be complete douchebags (Xyro77). Either way, you don't want to deflect interest of the BRs entirely because of such general, often offensive statements..

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

This has little to do with melee in particular, but if you're making a fighter.pac based edit for the airdodging I suppose I should just ask.

Are there any specific addresses to ledgestalling planned? Something like only the first n consecutive ledgegrabs granting invincibility would be great (and an obvious improvement in both melee and brawl; ledgestalling is a factor in both games and not good for the game in either). Code like that could benefit every project.

In general, I'm really interested in all these fighter.pac injections, and I think there are some things that could be accomplished via such methods that would help every project a lot. This is the first thread I've seen really get into using them though.

Also, I'm a Brawl Backroom Member, I think Brawl is a good game, but I am not opposed to hacking in principle. The group is, in fact, not monolithic...

 

[shanus]

This has little to do with melee in particular, but if you're making a fighter.pac based edit for the airdodging I suppose I should just ask.

Are there any specific addresses to ledgestalling planned? Something like only the first n consecutive ledgegrabs granting invincibility would be great (and an obvious improvement in both melee and brawl; ledgestalling is a factor in both games and not good for the game in either). Code like that could benefit every project.

In general, I'm really interested in all these fighter.pac injections, and I think there are some things that could be accomplished via such methods that would help every project a lot. This is the first thread I've seen really get into using them though.

Also, I'm a Brawl Backroom Member, I think Brawl is a good game, but I am not opposed to hacking in principle. The group is, in fact, not monolithic...

They are surprisingly simple, sort of. I imagine a code like that for ledgestalling would be surprisingly difficult UNLESS there is a variable which explicitly counts ledge grabs for every character (i.e. not just ike and a few others). Then we would need to find the ledge invulnerability function and somehow shorten it based on numbers (and no1 has found multiplication functions yet in PSA ). If that is the case, then we can do it.

Fighter.pac injections are fairly simple, though. Basically imagine a system wherein you do the following:

You overwrite a line in fighter.pac to be a Go To line instead. This Go To line goes to a location in blank memory which you overwrite with:

original line you overwrote
your PSA code
Go to statement to refer back to original fighter.pac memory location +8 (so the next line)

The hardest part is getting all the data formatted properly and memory locations for the code right.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

will there be texture hacks?

 

[Eldiran]

Cool! I like to see projects being successfully made. If you guys e'er need PSA troubleshooting/help, I'd be glad to, though it seems like you've got it covered pretty well.

Also, a small request -- "clash" sound effects.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Couldn't you basically have code that works like this (I'm just throwing out pseudo-code here).

Ledgegrab action:

BasicVariable++;
If BasicVariable < 7 {
[ledge invincibility function]}
(rest of ledgegrab code)

When the original code was just.

[ledge invincibility function]
(rest of ledgegrab code)

Then for something like the hitstun and respawn actions (or whatever else you wanted to refresh your count) sneak in a line like

BasicVariable = 0;

This all assumes Brawl has a few unused basic variables lying around or some way to define new variables. Their variables all seem to be pieces of monolithic arrays that are poorly documented so that could be quite the challenge itself. It also assumes that basic variable isn't easily overflowed; the wanton use of incrementing functions when the internal variables may have very low maximum values could cause problems...

It will be very exciting when that style of fighter.pac editing is generally more available though. I imagien right now doing that sort of thing is basically raw hexing...

 

[shanus]

Cool! I like to see projects being successfully made. If you guys e'er need PSA troubleshooting/help, I'd be glad to, though it seems like you've got it covered pretty well.

Also, a small request -- "clash" sound effects.

if you add it to rebound subaction, you can. Its funny that camelot shot me a PM today asking for me to make a fighter.pac injection of it. If i find the action for clash, i can make a code for that rather simply


And you know your help is always welcome here, haha

Figure out how to make tethers stick to walls ;-). I'm currently working on doing that by examining how link's arrows stick to walls.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

will there be texture hacks?

Nope, even though File Patch Code has to be used to play with generally any .pacs (and PM), you can't use textures.

Spoiler

[/sarcasm]

 

[Cia]

Melee sound effects in general are much better than brawl's.

There's no sound quite like a Sheik Fair, or a Peach Dsmash.

 

[shanus]

Couldn't you basically have code that works like this (I'm just throwing out pseudo-code here).

Ledgegrab action:

BasicVariable++;
If BasicVariable < 7 {
[ledge invincibility function]}
(rest of ledgegrab code)

When the original code was just.

[ledge invincibility function]
(rest of ledgegrab code)

Then for something like the hitstun and respawn actions (or whatever else you wanted to refresh your count) sneak in a line like

BasicVariable = 0;

This all assumes Brawl has a few unused basic variables lying around or some way to define new variables. Their variables all seem to be pieces of monolithic arrays that are poorly documented so that could be quite the challenge itself. It also assumes that basic variable isn't easily overflowed; the wanton use of incrementing functions when the internal variables may have very low maximum values could cause problems...

It will be very exciting when that style of fighter.pac editing is generally more available though. I imagien right now doing that sort of thing is basically raw hexing...

It's not hexing at all, it's a GCT code.

Here is an example of a code which is currently crashing [read this will crash if you try to powershield]:

PS Reflect [Shanus]
06586160 00000048      Location in memory im writing the data too
00000000 00000003      Data for first set of functions
00000000 00000000
00000000 00000002
00000000 000000D9      SFX Data
00000002 80FB1244      Go to memory location
00000002 60586190      Go to memory location
06170300 60586160      Defensive Collision Function
0A000100 60586178      Sound Effects
00090100 60586180      Go to
06FB123C 00000008      Location in memory for original SFX for PS
00090100 60586188      Replace line which was SFX command to Go to

if the code was working like it should.

The original line in fighter.pac 0A000100 would be overwriten with 00090100 which is a Go to command. This Go to command points to my list of commands, Defensive Collision: Reflect, Sound Effect, Go to line after original sound effects line. Each of those individual command point to the data set memory locatoins i wrote above.

That's an interesting approach to it I didn't think of, because I know of the initial prechecks for determining for if your on the ground, or pre-hit, etc. Regardless, it might be more complicated than you lend it to be because:

You need to modify the ground check function to set to 0.
You need to modify hitstun function to set to 0.
You need to set respawn to 0.

That function you suggest just disable ledgegrabs after 7 grabs, doesn't decay invuln even. However, it is an option. Just a more annoying one because it involves injecting into 4 or more memory locations. *I forget what variable is used by ike's upB counter, but it should be tested to see if it works for just grabbing edges with all characters*

 

[humble]

Just some ideas I had, I don't know if you already thought of these, but this is my input.

Brawl, in its stale form, is as such because it is overly defensive, and awkward in its lack of fluidity; it forces people into bad situations when they take the offensive.

But instead of making hitstun higher, in an attempt to encourage landing hits and making comboes, you could balance the defensive options!

For example, make the ledge sweetspot much smaller, and make it so it cannot be caught while reversed. Make shields smaller, make them decrease faster, and make them more breakable. Make the perfect shield frames smaller and harder to use. Reduce SDI, but keep regular DI on recoveries.


If you need any help with animations in Brawlbox I would be glad to help, I think this project looks great.

Also, I think that we should allow other characters, such as Eldrians zero, to be part of the cast if properly tested and balanced.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

any intentions on creating old characters like Mewtwo, Pichu, Roy, and Young Link.

 

[Boo Mansion]

I'm quite curious about R.O.B. in the new air dodge. I remember a long time ago in the past, the Melee air dodge code had to be changed to exclude free falls because of R.O.B.'s lack of one. Since we're able to edit animations now, is it possible to add animations so that R.O.B. can have a proper free fall animation to avoid freezing the game?

Another thing, if/when we figure out how to add new character slots... Will we see characters like Roy re-enter the fray? =P

Amazing job on this project so far, I am definitely looking forward to it!

 

[shanus]

I'm quite curious about R.O.B. in the new air dodge. I remember a long time ago in the past, the Melee air dodge code had to be changed to exclude free falls because of R.O.B.'s lack of one. Since we're able to edit animations now, is it possible to add animations so that R.O.B. can have a proper free fall animation to avoid freezing the game?

Another thing, if/when we figure out how to add new character slots... Will we see characters like Roy re-enter the fray? =P

Amazing job on this project so far, I am definitely looking forward to it!

In P:M, ROB has a special fall and special fall landlag animation.

 

[zxeon]

Something wicked awesome this way comes.

 

[Boo Mansion]

In P:M, ROB has a special fall and special fall landlag animation.

Ah, thanks for replying. It's good to know that R.O.B. can finally have a proper free fall.

Oh and something just crossed my mind, you mentioned something about Luigi and his freefall. Now, doing a normal Melee air dodge and going into that upside down free fall would look strange. Is it planned to reinstate his old free fall animation from Melee or one similar to it, or will he have a different free fall for both his up special and Melee air dodge?

Sorry if that's asking too much, I just thought it would be an interesting question to ask. xP It'd be interesting if he actually had two different free fall animations.

 

[GP&B]

Just some ideas I had, I don't know if you already thought of these, but this is my input.

Brawl, in its stale form, is as such because it is overly defensive, and awkward in its lack of fluidity; it forces people into bad situations when they take the offensive.

But instead of making hitstun higher, in an attempt to encourage landing hits and making comboes, you could balance the defensive options!

For example, make the ledge sweetspot much smaller, and make it so it cannot be caught while reversed. Make shields smaller, make them decrease faster, and make them more breakable. Make the perfect shield frames smaller and harder to use. Reduce SDI, but keep regular DI on recoveries.

Since this is partly building off of Brawl+, a lot of those issues are already fixed. This project (and I don't mean to speak for the devs) intends to focus greatly on a solely Melee-based feel.

Also, I think that we should allow other characters, such as Eldrians zero, to be part of the cast if properly tested and balanced.

I don't think there are any limits on that at all as long as there isn't some official tournament with rules against that (and by the sounds of what shanus said, this doesn't seem to have any intent for that). The only real limit on the characters is that PSA devs will also have to suit them for P:M in addition to whatever else they have them for (Eldiran has Zero set for Brawl+ and BBrawl/Brawl).

 

[shanus]

Ah, thanks for replying. It's good to know that R.O.B. can finally have a proper free fall.

Oh and something just crossed my mind, you mentioned something about Luigi and his freefall. Now, doing a normal Melee air dodge and going into that upside down free fall would look strange. Is it planned to reinstate his old free fall animation from Melee or one similar to it, or will he have a different free fall for both his up special and Melee air dodge?

Sorry if that's asking too much, I just thought it would be an interesting question to ask. xP It'd be interesting if he actually had two different free fall animations.

Nah, we are just replacing his freefall animation to not being upside down. All characters with weird special fall landlags were fixed, as well. For instance Bowser isn't in his shell when he lands, etc.

 

[GP&B]

Nah, we are just replacing his freefall animation to not being upside down. All characters with weird special fall landlags were fixed, as well. For instance Bowser isn't in his shell when he lands, etc.

So, DK should finally not flop on his back and Luigi will... do the same thing as Mario I guess (unless you're changing Mario's so that he lands on his feet too. Then you'd do the same with Luigi)?

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

...I feel like crying manly tears of joy....

But instead I'll just shout. "YES!" XD

The true game we've all been waiting for for who knows how long is finally coming. I can't even grasp the true form of Project M's sexiness. I ESPECIALLY can't wait to play Captain Falcon. XD

 

[Evilagram]

This is what I've been looking for long before I even heard of Brawl+

The physics fixes excite me the most. I think I'm going to love this.