Project M Social Thread

[Divinokage]

Handoffs are dumb and this is coming from someone who uses the character. There's plenty of places to go and things to do with Ice Climbers that have nothing to do with chain grabs. They offer such a fun dynamic in what makes safe options safe that it's silly that all they get known for is wobbling and handoffs.

And occasionally blizzard walling

ICs should have a great grab game though. If they didn't the character would be complete trash.. It takes very good execution to pull off his complicated grab setups and when they are not grabbing, all it takes is basically one hit to split them up and start some chaos. The momentum can be yours pretty fast and you can also abuse Nana's **** AI. lol.

If the devs have better ideas for ICs to still make them decent enough, then I guess it would be cool but im sure Melee players may complain a little. =P

 

[Strong Badam]

Fly Amanita is a BR member. I think we've got ICs covered.

 

[Stevo]

as long as it is not ONLY Fly Amanita. Are there any other IC mains in the BR?

multiple points of view are important.

 

[Strong Badam]

there are other IC mains?

 

[Jolteon]

I like your idea Neko.

 

[GP&B]

there are other IC mains?

It could happen.

 

[Skieth]

I had no idea IC mains were fun to watch until that video a few pages back where IC beat fox in melee.

I guess you can control nana for a second after popo lands a grab?

That second video where IC chain grabbed someone to death was pretty disgusting though.

 

[drsusredfish]

I think the argument or counter-argument being made here is that some things take a great deal of skill to pull off. Other things have the same or greater effect with 1/10th the effort and it nullifies the effectiveness of to many characters to easily.

Takes alot of practice, skill, and to an extent luck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QiUhr-uZlc#t=20m25s

just as effective...lacks 1/10 the skill of the previous clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d9W5oLNrRc#t=0m12s

If you see no difference...something is wrong with you.

Wow i didn't know FLY had such long gold hair.

 

[Stevo]

there are other IC mains?

Good point.

Carry on

 

[Professor Pro]

Here's a radical idea.

Disable IC's taunts completely.

AND

Map C-stick for Nana to Dpad.

Dpad Up on the ground? Nana Usmashes.
Dpad Back in the Air? Nana Bairs.
Dpad Forward while shielding? Nana Forward Rolls before sliding back to Popo.

etc etc.

Thoughts?

Sounds really good lol, not sure if it's possible but it would be a great new feature to test out.

Too weird an input. That actually sounds like it would be more uncomfortable than desyncing them. I liked how they worked in Melee and don't think they should change all that much. Just some tweaks here and there.

I don't agree at all with the first part of your post, unfamiliarity should not be a reason at all in the case to not add attempt to tryout or include the proposed idea, and it would only be uncomfortable at the beginning because you wouldn't be used to it.

 

[MaxThunder]

^^uh... he said "uncomfortable"...

and i agree with him... that sounds pretty uncomfortable...

Edit: not to mention that GC d-pads are dumb...

 

[GP&B]

Wow i didn't know FLY had such long gold hair.

He goes by FLY for a reason, lol.

 

[GHNeko]

^^uh... he said "uncomfortable"...

and i agree with him... that sounds pretty uncomfortable...

Edit: not to mention that GC d-pads are dumb...

GC pads really aren't dumb for single inputs. You'd be using it on occasion, not on a regular basis, since desyncing would still be primarily the main usage, so with some experience, it could be easily managed.

 

[Oneupsalesman]

So...how exactly is Pit's glide being altered?

 

[9Kplus1]

Pit can glide as fast as Bowser, now

btw, guys, gals, and everything in between, don't forget to tune into VGBC's stream later tonight for Smash @ Xanadu. I'm confident that JCaesar won't hog 60% of the 2.5 gameplay this week; so, it should be fun to watch!

 

[MaxThunder]

GC pads really aren't dumb for single inputs. You'd be using it on occasion, not on a regular basis, since desyncing would still be primarily the main usage, so with some experience, it could be easily managed.

well i have played a starwars game that had me using it for stuff a lot... even single inputs are hard... "oh you pressed left but applied uneven pressure on it?.. well then you get up"...

 

[Yung Mei]

They should make it so if Nana gets a grab and popo is a fair distance away from here, she does auto BThrow->Taunt

 

[Oneupsalesman]

Pit can glide as fast as Bowser, now

By that you mean Bowser's up-B, right?

 

[PHD]

Here's a radical idea.

Disable IC's taunts completely.

AND

Map C-stick for Nana to Dpad.

Dpad Up on the ground? Nana Usmashes.
Dpad Back in the Air? Nana Bairs.
Dpad Forward while shielding? Nana Forward Rolls before sliding back to Popo.

etc etc.

Thoughts?

Why not just go all the way and have A+B let you completely switch which climber you're controlling?

 

[victra♥]

ICs would be the most intense character ever holy

 

[GHNeko]

Why not just go all the way and have A+B let you completely switch which climber you're controlling?

Even I think that's far less plausible than what I threw out.

Regardless.


SNAP. neato idea.

 

[cannedbread]

ic's just need an inproved neutral game and increased range blah blah blah

seriously they're such cool characters but they get beat out by stupid ****

marth repeatedly fairs directly out of ic's range

"oh gosh darling what do we do"

 

[Juushichi]

Marth abusing his range against characters who don't have it?

Hm.

 

[cannedbread]

that was a bad example

falcon would be a better example i suppose

 

[Oneupsalesman]

I wish I had people to play this game with. Le sigh.

 

[cannedbread]

same. except my group are a bunch of casuals who think landing an fsmash at 12% is like the best think ever

sucks because i apparently live near people who are good and i'm really not in a position to be going to peoples' houses to play smash

 

[Tmacc]

Hey, if STL were to have a tournament with Project M as the main game, how many other regions would be interested in coming?

 

[GunBlaze]

same. except my group are a bunch of casuals who think landing an fsmash at 12% is like the best think ever

sucks because i apparently live near people who are good and i'm really not in a position to be going to peoples' houses to play smash

I feel you, man

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

^^In all fairness, not everyone reads this thread daily or is going to read through all 5167 pages.

If you want some hilarity go back like 2000 pages and read some the stuff there. Hindsight can be pretty funny.

Saw the stream, Snake's Fsmash with the knife looks really stupid. He just blindly slashes sideways? What in the sweet hell, do none of you take any form of martial arts? Why don't you put a legit knife attack in there.

I think this fits the bill.

 

[Yung Mei]

It's probably been discussed already, but would it be possible to make the Revival Platform animations or w/e like Smash 64? Aka, the character is on the "ground" and picks themselves back up to get back into the fight. **** would be awesome as hell

 

[Skieth]

same. except my group are a bunch of casuals who think landing an fsmash at 12% is like the best think ever

sucks because i apparently live near people who are good and i'm really not in a position to be going to peoples' houses to play smash

Yeah, I also almost exclusively play 4 player with casuals.. I've had to nerf moves like Link's UpB and Ganon's DownB*, because I've found one casual can dominate by just spamming those moves.

I would never expect PM to try and balance 4 player, but IMO there are some problems at 4 player, low level play.

 

[Archangel]

ic's just need an inproved neutral game and increased range blah blah blah

seriously they're such cool characters but they get beat out by stupid ****

marth repeatedly fairs directly out of ic's range

"oh gosh darling what do we do"

Master Baiting.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I would never expect PM to try and balance 4 player, but IMO there are some problems at 4 player, low level play.

4-player balance is a fundamental problem with all Smash games; camping is always a dominant strategy due to the fact that you take less damage that way. It doesn't really matter if it's Time, Stock, or Coin matches, or what skill level the players are at.

Also, a majority of factors that contribute to low-level play come from very high amounts of user error or lack of understanding of the game. For example, Link's Up-B can be jumped over or shielded, while Ganon's Forward-B can be spotdodged or rolled around. Smash as a series is quite balanced until you get to higher levels of play, where the character's extremes are abused to the fullest.

Players are often low-level because they don't know of or use all the basic options available to them. They might never shield, or they might never roll, or they might never grab, or they might never approach with aerials. If a player does not use the basic options the game gives them, it isn't poor balance, it's people not knowing how to play the game at even the most fundamental level.

 

[ELI-mination]

Streaming Demo 2.5 Preview build with Gurukid, Doowop, Leelue, and myself:

http://www.twitch.tv/FreeSaltines

 

[ph00tbag]

4-player balance is a fundamental problem with all Smash games; camping is always a dominant strategy due to the fact that you take less damage that way. It doesn't really matter if it's Time, Stock, or Coin matches, or what skill level the players are at.

The answer

Is Bonus mode.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The answer

Is Bonus mode.

Clearly. PMBR, time to get on this for the 2.5 release. We must introduce all the bonuses again for fair and balanced 4-player action.

 

[cannedbread]

*****s don't know **** 'bout my switzerland bonus

 

[Skieth]

4-player balance is a fundamental problem with all Smash games; camping is always a dominant strategy due to the fact that you take less damage that way.

This is definitely true. This is what makes projectile characters really annoying in 4 player. I think camping is supposed to be mitigated by there being items to fight over and throw, but the items in brawl are terrible and vastly less fun to play with than in melee.

Also, a majority of factors that contribute to low-level play come from very high amounts of user error or lack of understanding of the game. For example, Link's Up-B can be jumped over or shielded, while Ganon's Forward-B can be spotdodged or rolled around. Smash as a series is quite balanced until you get to higher levels of play, where the character's extremes are abused to the fullest.

Players are often low-level because they don't know of or use all the basic options available to them. They might never shield, or they might never roll, or they might never grab, or they might never approach with aerials. If a player does not use the basic options the game gives them, it isn't poor balance, it's people not knowing how to play the game at even the most fundamental level.

Sorry, I meant ganondorf's DownB -- I was trying to highlight two moves that have good KB and KBG and have a large range. These types of moves greatly increase the chaos of 4 player because they can easily hit multiple characters.

Players at low level definitely don't know of all the basic options availble to him. The players I play with DO know of shielding, rolling, tilts, the importance of DI, etc, etc. But it is very hard to explain features like shield shrinking and how you can be blocking but still vulnerable. Or how to handle moves like Ness FB, which requires specific DI to escape.

I don't mean to imply PM is unbalanced, I just want to mention some issues that have upset or confused players in my experience.

 

[Oneupsalesman]

I honestly would rather not have a bunch of changes made to have 4-player free-for-all work better since Project M's main audience is for the 1v1 or 2v2, but I know what you mean.

Honestly, I can't really stand too much free-for-all anymore.

 

[Stevo]

casual players will always find something that beats them to be "cheap" or "unfair" or what have you.

There is no reason to attempt to solve this really. Casual players are just playing for fun, if you get hit by link's up-b 5 times in a row, laugh about it or learn to play better.