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Project M Social Thread

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Rikana

Smash Champion
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
2,125
You guys talk about sheik and how she's top tier but when was the last time you've seen a sheik win a major tournament for Melee? Yes, she's really good, but its obvious she's no falco or fox even if she has CGs. If she was able to CG spacies on the other hand.. that'd be an interesting and different story.

Edit: yes, we're aware that smods is down.
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
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Sep 1, 2005
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3,786
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Chester, IL
I forgot - shout-outs to iLink for providing the image of DSmash's hitbox.

Nair also combos into itself 4+ times and then into up-B.
I sort of demonstrated that in this video, but I doubt NAir -> NAir is as consistent as DSmash -> NAir because juggling combos are too DI-able for that. NAir -> NAir also depends on you landing on the ground in-between NAirs at higher %s, which you won't always have the luxury of doing.

EDIT: Thanks, Rikana.
 

iLink

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
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2,075
Location
NorCal
Am I the only one that thinks sheik's dthrow/bthrow is fine as is?

@Metroid: Nice video. I would have made you an animated picture of the hitbox if I had known you were doing that :p

I think Kink means RAR nair. It's really surprising how much range it gets and how fast it is.
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
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Am I the only one that thinks sheik's dthrow/bthrow is fine as is?
I think Sheik's throws are fine in PM, once the current throw mechanics are fixed then Ganon's chaingrabs won't be as big of an issue.

@Metroid: Nice video. I would have made you an animated picture of the hitbox if I had known you were doing that :p

I think Kink means RAR nair. It's really surprising how much range it gets and how fast it is.
Thanks :). I need to play around with RAR NAir more, I don't use it at all because I focus on jabbing too much.
 

Kuraudo

4Aerith
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That definitely pertains to me considering I'm a Charizard main. Until I learn the character more thanks to videos like yours, I've been starting a lot of combos off reads into grabs, but my favorite move is Up Smash with Charizard. At low percents it combos, starts nice juggles, the works.

I also like using Seismic Toss at medium/low percents and following it up with a glide attack or FAir since it's the perfect percentage to knock someone off the stage and proceed to breath fire on them for the KO. My favorite moves with Charizard are Heat Wave and USmash I think. But there's so many options with him!

Thanks to his shield, he can afford to take a beating from rushdown shining from characters like Falco and the like. If he didn't have that, he'd be screwed.

My favorite damage-building combo though, which works best on Battlefield is starting on the left or right platforms,

Opening move (can be Jab, DAir, DSmash, whatevs) -> Seismic Toss -> Glide attack to upper platform -> USmash -> UAir/FAir/BAir/NAir follow-ups

Using the glide attack to the upper platform, you actually cancel out the last part which delivers the knockback, locking them into the fire and letting you immediately perform an USmash. I have yet to see if this would let me grab or not, but with Charizard there's so many options.

Charizard is the reason why I play P:M.

I wanna help advance his metagame and when this game takes off in the full version, I wanna become one of the best users of him. It's gonna be fun.
 

Vkrm

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
1,194
Location
Las Vegas
I can see it from both angles, shiek's D-throw I mean. Alot the match that in her favor slightly like Marth and Falcon have probably shifted to favor the other side. On the other hand a lot of match ups she had with low tiers go from unwinnable, to winnable with shiek maintaining a large advantage. The dthrow nerfs make it so she has a couple of tough matches, a bunch of good ones, and I feel that's good enough considering she could always just switch to Zelda if she's getting handled in a particular matchup.

:phone:
 

JCaesar

Smash Hero
Joined
May 28, 2004
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9,657
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Project MD
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JCaesar
Can't we just go back to PMBR members johning about Ike's recovery?
Is that what you got out of my post? I usually play Marth vs Ike nowadays because Ike's recovery is free for Marth. It's also not very hard for ROB to edgeguard if I have time to set up.

I just thought Sonic's spring gimp wasn't a very good example because it's about as far from a universal edgeguard option as you can get. A few characters like Link, ROB, and Peach can toss items down, but none of them are quite as safe, easy, and quick as spring or have that gimp angle.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
I think other melee top tiers need a nerf as well.
fox needs a recovery nerf, and falco needs a dair nerf (make it a meteor or somethin)
I'd rather make the change from NTSC Fox to PAL Fox. Basically, it's still easy to force and capitalize on openings with him, you just need more of them.

IIRC, making Falco's late-hit dair a meteor has been discussed. I think it's a fair idea. All told, though, I think Falco's already been nerfed since a lot of the buffs to the game have directly countered a lot of Falco's strengths. DK and Bowser come to mind in particular.
 

Kink-Link5

Smash Hero
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Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum
That definitely pertains to me considering I'm a Charizard main. Until I learn the character more thanks to videos like yours, I've been starting a lot of combos off reads into grabs, but my favorite move is Up Smash with Charizard. At low percents it combos, starts nice juggles, the works.

I also like using Seismic Toss at medium/low percents and following it up with a glide attack or FAir since it's the perfect percentage to knock someone off the stage and proceed to breath fire on them for the KO. My favorite moves with Charizard are Heat Wave and USmash I think. But there's so many options with him!

Thanks to his shield, he can afford to take a beating from rushdown shining from characters like Falco and the like. If he didn't have that, he'd be screwed.

My favorite damage-building combo though, which works best on Battlefield is starting on the left or right platforms,

Opening move (can be Jab, DAir, DSmash, whatevs) -> Seismic Toss -> Glide attack to upper platform -> USmash -> UAir/FAir/BAir/NAir follow-ups

Using the glide attack to the upper platform, you actually cancel out the last part which delivers the knockback, locking them into the fire and letting you immediately perform an USmash. I have yet to see if this would let me grab or not, but with Charizard there's so many options.

Charizard is the reason why I play P:M.

I wanna help advance his metagame and when this game takes off in the full version, I wanna become one of the best users of him. It's gonna be fun.
I'd worry much less about comboing and worry more about spacing and positioning. The reward game in Smash is such a minor part of the game compared to the aspects that go into landing hits in the first place. Fox isn't super great because he has easymode combos like Falcon, he's great because he has such a varied neutral game that he can win perfectly well getting single hits or 2-hit links into kill moves, or even just using his strong defense to out-patience his opponent while applying passive damage through lasers. All characters shine best when baiting and playing safely (Except super tops like Peach/Fox who can frame trap on shield/dodge/other stuff to go in hard with immunity, in which case they do equally well offensively as defensively) because that is what allows the most openings to actually get rewards. Practicing combos at specific percents is strictly for maximum boredom when you have no one to practice with and have perfected your movement options to a tee.
 

DrinkingFood

Smash Hero
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May 5, 2012
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@CannedBread
The fix for that is in the works. Not that I think anyone needs any nerfs. Like Phoot said, they've already been indirectly nerfed through the buffs of other characters.
 

MaxThunder

PM Support
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May 27, 2008
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1,962
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Norway=)...
Side+B attack is a great option because (1) it lets you mix up the distance you travel from QD and (2) you don't go into free-fall if you hit the opponent with it, so you can hit opponents away and still up+B to the stage. I'm not entirely sure why you think the opponent would be "dumb" to use it.
well cuase you're intercepting him so far out his up-b won't reach... then unless the ike was above the ledge when he started, he'd only be able to continue recovering on dracula's castle...
 

MVP

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
641
is smashmods.com/fourms down? cause i can't access it from my computer. Says it can't connect?
 

cannedbread

Smash Lord
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Jul 19, 2012
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1,042
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long island
yeah smashmod forums is down. not sure why but they are aware

edit: nevermind it's back up

well cuase you're intercepting him so far out his up-b won't reach... then unless the ike was above the ledge when he started, he'd only be able to continue recovering on dracula's castle...
well if the ike knows that you'll commit to the offguard while he's trying to recover low, qd attack is still a good recovery mixup like metroid said, even if it isn't a walled stage. he can aether out of pretty quickly so he most likely wouldn't ko.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
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Feb 12, 2006
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18,958
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Slippi.gg
DMG#931
I'm just confused because they buffed ganon and then also made his cg work longer and on more people while taking shieks away. Sooo..now ganon is just going to chaingrab half the cast instead of shiek? lol and the logic of ganon not being good so it doesn't matter can't apply anymore...because he's good now.
Ok Hylian this has been gone over many times.

They did not intentionally make his CG better. Ganon's CG works better because of Brawl related mechanics that have not been fixed yet. They gave Ganon buffs like Side B stuff, but they did not intentionally sit down look at his grab values and change them to make it better. The Brawl mechanics will be fixed and he will be a lot more reasonable. AGAIN, BRAWL STUFF is the problem, not "Magus got jelly and secretly changed his Dthrow to be ****".
 

Kuraudo

4Aerith
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Kuraudo
I'd worry much less about comboing and worry more about spacing and positioning. The reward game in Smash is such a minor part of the game compared to the aspects that go into landing hits in the first place. Fox isn't super great because he has easymode combos like Falcon, he's great because he has such a varied neutral game that he can win perfectly well getting single hits or 2-hit links into kill moves, or even just using his strong defense to out-patience his opponent while applying passive damage through lasers. All characters shine best when baiting and playing safely (Except super tops like Peach/Fox who can frame trap on shield/dodge/other stuff to go in hard with immunity, in which case they do equally well offensively as defensively) because that is what allows the most openings to actually get rewards. Practicing combos at specific percents is strictly for maximum boredom when you have no one to practice with and have perfected your movement options to a tee.
I think I'm doing alright for the spacing and positioning part. Actually, playing Brawl for as long as I have has really seasoned me for this game. Combos and what works in what situations is what I feel I need to work on best now.
 

Sixth-Sense

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
689
Location
San Francisco, Venezuela (not the famous one)
The update will go up when it's ready, we deeply apologize there's been a huge delay on this but that's how things go when this is all in our free time.
It sucks, but people need to remember that this is all possible because the team has that drive, and that it's all on thier free time, it's not like they're getting payed or something. Be patient, i'd rather have a professional and well presented update with video and-what-not. That way I could intrest my friends in playing :glare:

By the way, in what way does DK's buffs nerf falco? I'm a little confused on that statement, please shed some light to a newcomer.
 

GaretHax

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
464
I think they are right NTSC d-throw is superior and belongs in PM, I mean how else am I supposed to take a bathroom-break while playing half of the cast? At least in NTSC I can put the controller down and just ask them to pause it after the stock is gone.

Also a ton of characters have serious anti-spacie-tools atm, which i understand but kinda bugs me. Do we really want to have to give most of the cast anti-shiek-tools just so you can hit z-down for three minutes?
:phone:
 
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