Project M Social Thread

[bubbaking]

I'm pretty sure bringing that up is rather pointless. IIRC the PMBR has already said spacies are staying NTSC. Your example of applying it to other characters also makes little sense- you'll make a mistake as spacies because no one has 1 frame reaction time. If a character requires a tech mistake to be punished and doesn't have an insane tech barrier then yes, this character would be broken, but I don't believe we've seen such a character emerge in PM outside of GaW.

Sooooo, to beat ICs with Samus, just shoot missiles, CC their crap, tilt them, bomb them, do whatever you need to. If you get grabbed, you might just die, but Samus can still very feasibly beat them because of certain advantages she has over their weaknesses. But you're telling me that to beat a good Fox, I have to wait for him to screw up? That's beyond ********. Now, keep in mind that I'm not calling you ********. I just think the notion that I have to wait for someone to screw up before I can play the game is kind of ********.

#BadDecisions

 

[ELI-mination]

Looks like I really got something going with these hashtags.

I set the trends.

#TrendSetter
#BestInTheWorld

 

[bubbaking]

I guess so...

#ButWe'reSupposedToHateYou

 

[BJN39]

Why the hate?

#YouJustGottaPlayHomo

 

[Life]

I wish #sharptags would catch on

 

[bubbaking]

So why can't a char be made with a positive MU against Fox already?

And I'm already a homo........sapien.

 

[ELI-mination]

Olimar beats Link
Discuss

#[REJECTED]

 

[iLink]

Oh really?
Skip to 2:42:13 for a good example of a LOW LAG DT being used to approach and punish an action quickly. It should give you an idea on how low its lag really is. If you want a better picture of the invincibility (and the low lag) it has, go to 2:40:09 and progress to about 2:40:40. There should be plenty of examples there. At 2:40:37 specifically, Ben tried to punish the 'lag' of my DT by just standing there (as I DT'd) and then retaliating with a quick Zelda dsmash (her fastest move). She was rewarded with both a spot dodge and a grab from Lucario (you can hear his cries of frustration afterwards ).

Alright, I held up my end of the deal. Why don't you give us some evidence of how punishable Lucario's DT is so I can believe you're not theorycrafting all this?

Edit: Jumping straight to 2:42:13 may have been a bit too close to the action to accurately see what happened, so I'll play it out here: I DT'd at about bottom plat height and was out of DT (lag and all) before I even hit the ground allowing me to jab as soon as I landed.

I was talking more about the spacies, specifically falco's laser. I know it has its uses against projectiles like zelda's, but it's pretty limited against falco considering his cancel on landing. Also that bit at 2:42:13 I'm pretty you used ftilt and not jab.

Also I looked it over on brawlbox and the startup of DT is vulnerable for 6 frames and the end is vulnerable for 5 frames before you can act. That's literally only 1 frame faster then something like his spotdodge. If you try to use his fastest attack (not counting the back of utilt), his jab hits on frame 6 so you are vulnerable for 10 frames; 6 if you try to spotdodge. The entire DT animation lasts for 25. Falco has a 1 frame attack. I find it hard to believe that you can DT through lasers at that range without it being a risk, assuming you don't cancel.

You've seen footage of what Snake is capable of, and if you still think he is the worst in the game then there's no point in discussing anymore lol.

Edit - Actually one question, since you feel you have a good idea of Snake I was wondering what's your opinion of the MU's that are clearly not in his favour, you have a huge list to pick from since you said every MU is against him but give me his Top 15 worst lol.

Marth, sheik, mario, fox, dk, link, tlink, lucario were the ones that stood out to me as difficult. I haven't played every MU enough to really give a definite opinion but it just generally felt like they were mostly doable, but not like I have an advantage.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I don't quite understand what using pound signs before words is supposed to mean, but all the cool kids are doing it so I guess that means I have to as well.

#ResultsBasedTierlists

 

[monkeyx4]

Link for top/high tier since he has the best grab in the game. : D

 

[bubbaking]

Olimar beats Link
Discuss

#[REJECTED]

That's like saying Link is defeated by thin air. Now, I would be willing to believe that Olimar beats Fox since that's a non-existent char performing an impossible feat.

#TrollBetter

 

[ELI-mination]

I don't quite understand what using pound signs before words is supposed to mean, but Eli is doing it so I guess that means I have to as well.

#ResultsBasedTierlists

Fixed.

#EliSetsTheTrends

 

[BJN39]

Wait a minute;

Monkeyx4
Posts: 667

#YouWereAtDatNumberB4ThisPost

 

[UltiMario]

##sucksyoupeoplearenerdswithnolife
#gooutsideandeatasandvichorsomethingjuststopusing#

 

[GP&B]

It's from some stupid **** called twitter. However, I find its implementation into this thread far more interesting and good at flavoring your posts.

#twitterhate
#eliminatetrends

 

[BJN39]

It's night where I live.

#ICouldGetMugged

 

[ELI-mination]

Wtf am I doing with my life playing Project M when I could be EATING SANDWICHES.

#TunaSwissMayoAndHotSaucePlease

 

[monkeyx4]

Wait a minute;

Monkeyx4
Posts: 667

#YouWereAtDatNumberB4ThisPost

: D

 

[BJN39]

: D

Eeeeeyuppp!

#IFeelLikeThatWasANearUselessPost

We should discuss something more relevant to project m or this thread like, might get locked temporarily.

 

[bubbaking]

I was talking more about the spacies, specifically falco's laser. I know it has its uses against projectiles like zelda's, but it's pretty limited against falco considering his cancel on landing. Also that bit at 2:42:13 I'm pretty you used ftilt and not jab.

Oh, uh, ok. It doesn't really matter, though. The point remains the same. DT ended before Lucario hit the ground.

Also I looked it over on brawlbox and the startup of DT is vulnerable for 6 frames and the end is vulnerable for 5 frames before you can act. That's literally only 1 frame faster then something like his spotdodge. If you try to use his fastest attack (not counting the back of utilt), his jab hits on frame 6 so you are vulnerable for 10 frames; 6 if you try to spotdodge. The entire DT animation lasts for 25. Falco has a 1 frame attack. I find it hard to believe that you can DT through lasers at that range without it being a risk, assuming you don't cancel.

The best part is that an argument was just made by several people here that no spacee main is ever gonna be frame perfect, so I can probably be a lot more lenient with my punishment expectations. Also, it's kind of irrelevant that DT is only 1 frame faster than spot-dodge because the DT is basically a moving spot-dodge. Also, don't forget to factor in things like the surprise element slowing down reaction times. Oh yeah, and if I DT through a laser so that I'm within jab, ftilt, or dtilt range of Falco.....how does that mean I'm getting shined? IIRC, all of those moves outrange shine.

#FallibleArguments

 

[BJN39]

PeachKid, I see you are you interested in project m?

 

[iLink]

My point about DT being just 1 frame faster then a spot dodge was that the timing to punish them is almost identical.

Well I guess you can keep trying that lol. At this point we are both pretty much theorycrafting and that gets no one anywhere apparently.

We can leave things as they are now and just say Lucario is the best character I guess.

My whole point that started all this was that even if this was the final product we are getting, its still way too soon to declare everything we are saying as definite and there is a ton of room for exploration, yet people are making claims as if they have been playing the game for years.

 

[Strong Badam]

This thread is cancer.

 

[ELI-mination]

This thread is cancer.

You're welcome.



#[REJECTED]

 

[bubbaking]

My point about DT being just 1 frame faster then a spot dodge was that the timing to punish them is almost identical.

Well I guess you can keep trying that lol. At this point we are both pretty much theorycrafting and that gets no one anywhere apparently.

We can leave things as they are now and just say Lucario is the best character I guess.

My whole point that started all this was that even if this was the final product we are getting, its still way too soon to declare everything we are saying as definite and there is a ton of room for exploration, yet people are making claims as if they have been playing the game for years.

Understandable.

#ButNotEnough

Serious talk, that's a fine conclusion to leave things at.

 

[leelue]

Lol@strongbad
##

 

[BJN39]

StrongBad is probably right...

...Maybe this thread should be temporarily locked.

But I still wanna know what people think of Zelda being even with Spacies, CF, and Mario.

 

[bubbaking]

But isn't this just a general discussion thread?

#AnythingGoes

 

[Kink-Link5]

Maybe Falcon, but definitely not Fox. U-smash is bull**** in the matchup but then Fox just has to do one of his thousands of not nair options. I don't know about Mario/Falco/Wolf.

 

[ELI-mination]

But I still wanna know what people think of Zelda being even with Spacies, CF, and Mario.

Zelda is overrated. She's significantly worse than Sheik imo.

 

[UltiMario]

Wtf am I doing with my life playing Project M when I could be EATING SANDWICHES.

You see guys? Even Eli under-

#TunaSwissMayoAndHotSaucePlease

Nevermind.

 

[Vwins]

Pssh where are all these Lucarios at? Come see me.

#TimeToGet4Stocked

lol make a tourny in the NY region and I'll come down to show you what's a real lucario .
Most PM tourny right now are so far away from montreal so its not really worth it for me to travel since they are not big enough.

About all that lucario discussion I think his worst match up are gonna be jiggs and peach because he cant combo floaty that well and he really needs those combos to be effective. Plus, both of these character have good zoning capacity which could cause problem for lucario since his only good approach are his Fair and dash attack which could be easily counter by peach float fair and jiggs wall of bair.

I dont want to sound cocky or anything like that but from all the lucarios I've watched so far on the net, I haven't seen any really good one. The best are probably leffen and fuzzyness and everytime I watch them, there's so many thing they are not doing right with lucario that make him going from a very good character to the best character in the game by far.

 

[BJN39]

Maybe Falcon, but definitely not Fox. U-smash is bull**** in the matchup but then Fox just has to do one of his thousands of not nair options. I don't know about Mario/Falco/Wolf.

You underestimate what Zelda could do. (play Very homo)
I don't have any videos on hand, though, and my phone doesn't show the YT link so, tomorrow I might have something.

Btw Usmash is like, always BS.

 

[ELI-mination]

lol make a tourny in the NY region and I'll come down to show you what's a real lucario .
Most PM tourny right now are so far away from montreal so its not really worth it for me to travel since they are not big enough.

About all that lucario discussion I think his worst match up are gonna be jiggs and peach because he cant combo floaty that well and he really needs those combos to be effective. Plus, both of these character have good zoning capacity which could cause problem for lucario since his only good approach are his Fair and dash attack which could be easily counter by peach float fair and jiggs wall of bair.

I dont want to sound cocky or anything like that but from all the lucarios I've watched so far on the net, I haven't seen any really good one. The best are probably leffen and fuzzyness and everytime I watch them, there's so many thing they are not doing right with lucario that make him going from a very good character to the best character in the game by far.

Save some gameplay footage and show us all this amazingness.

Donkey Kong has a super secret move that deals 600% damage, but I'm not gonna record a video of it. But I'll beat you all with it though.

#ShotsFired

 

[Kink-Link5]

I have no problem with playing homo, but Fox can just out homo her in every way while also punishing any of her safest run aways with dashdance/pewpew/bloopbloopbloop. I just don't see Zelda being able to play all that homo when her run away options are limited on every small and pretty much every medium-sized stage, and she lacks any fast baiting options. No dashdance, no wavedashing, no air weaving, nothing to quickly change spacing at a close range.

Zelda vs TL is a silly matchup.

 

[Rikana]

Vwins, come down to Toronto with Kage to attend P:M and Melee tourneys.

 

[BJN39]

Actually pewpew might be less effective if Zelda just jump Nayru ground cancels over and over.
It seems silly but I've seen it work to some degree. But I was leaning toward 45:55 ish for this MU anyway and I can see why you'd say Fox advantage

What do you mean TL = silly MU? Like, silly lopsided or silly even?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Silly because there are 40,000 projectiles flying everywhere and neither character can fight the other at close range.

If Zelda approaches, she gets bomb->daired, if TL approaches, he gets grabbed/U-smashed into whatever.

 

[bubbaking]

I have no problem with playing homo, but Fox can just out homo her in every way while also punishing any of her safest run aways with dashdance/pewpew/bloopbloopbloop. I just don't see Zelda being able to play all that homo when her run away options are limited on every small and pretty much every medium-sized stage, and she lacks any fast baiting options. No dashdance, no wavedashing, no air weaving, nothing to quickly change spacing at a close range.

Zelda vs TL is a silly matchup.

Zelda's fsmash is a fairly fast baiting option. She has a wavedash and she has a teleport wavedash with a hitbox. This teleport can also change spacing at close range.

#FalseInformation

 

[BJN39]

I'm finding plenty of good battles on fox v Zelda I'll try to get them up tomorrow.