Project M Social Thread

[ELI-mination]

Why were you playing the Wifi build? Are you sacrificing accurate button inputs for nicer video quality?

Yes.

#TryingHDforachange

 

[bubbaking]

That makes a pretty big difference in airdodge timing.

*Shrug* I didn't notice anything. Why don't you just watch the videos and determine for yourself if the playing quality was actually decreased by the decision to use Wifi?

Dtilt and bair? Also bacon is decent at dismantling mines and stopping grenades.

Well, I mentioned bair in my edit. Dtilt requires G&W to get close enough on the ground to use it, something that Snake is excellent at rebuffing. I was thinking maybe something more along the lines of an aerial... Bacon works but it's definitely not reliable. Especially not when a Nikita's in the air.

G&W still loses to the character, it's G&W. CC Dtilt and pray they get hit. I summed up half the character right there.

Snake can CC dtilt right back. The sad part is, he'll get a combo out of it and then G&W will be at death %'s.

 

[F. Blue]

*Shrug* I didn't notice anything. Why don't you just watch the videos and determine for yourself if the playing quality was actually decreased by the decision to use Wifi?

Is good enough really good enough? In this situation you really need to ask yourself, what would Dantarion do?

WWDD?

 

[bubbaking]

Oki is short for okizeme, and that is the act of setting up traps when your opponent is waking up. Its like tech chasing, but not just limited to chasing a tech. Its broader than that actually.

I know I'm late, but IMO, the best oki chars then would be all the TC-strong chars, like Marth, Lucario, Ike, Snake, Falcon, DDD, Zard, and the Spacees. Most of these chars can also lay "traps" in addition to flat-out TC's. For instance, Lucario can option select against a knocked down opponent near the ledge with a Spirit Bomb (term used on purpose). He can then cover the only option left himself. There are a whole bunch more of nasty things Lucario can do in similar situations (he could perform the same scenario with a regular AS, tbh) and most of the chars I mentioned can do similarly nasty things.

 

[iLink]

*Shrug* I didn't notice anything. Why don't you just watch the videos and determine for yourself if the playing quality was actually decreased by the decision to use Wifi?



Well, I mentioned bair in my edit. Dtilt requires G&W to get close enough on the ground to use it, something that Snake is excellent at rebuffing. I was thinking maybe something more along the lines of an aerial... Bacon works but it's definitely not reliable. Especially not when a Nikita's in the air.



Snake can CC dtilt right back. The sad part is, he'll get a combo out of it and then G&W will be at death %'s.

G&W isn't heavy enough or falls fast enoguh to be combo'd very heavily against snake. Nikita is hardly an issue unless you are recovering. G&W's upb is also a thing.

How does snake deal with G&W if he has a lead and is forced to approach?

 

[Vigilante]

OMG where df have you been?

Lol, I was mostly on the IRC or smashmods. I've avoided this thread because I'd rather work on things than spend my time arguing with poeple over premature judgements or delusional conspiracy theories. I like a lot of poeple there, but I just don't have much time nowadays.

I'll try to show up mor eoften in JCaesar's stream chats.

 

[bubbaking]

Is good enough really good enough? In this situation you really need to ask yourself, what would Dantarion do?

WWDD?

Well, I look at it this way: What Is Needed?
WIN

In this case, an HD replay is needed. Therefore, I simply....WIN.

G&W isn't heavy enough to be combo'd very heavily against snake. Nikita is hardly an issue unless you are recovering. G&W's upb is also a thing.

G&W is one of the most easily combo'd ultra-light characters in the history of Smash. His falling speed counteracts his weight. Nikita is definitely enough of an issue since it's simple presence makes approaching a pain and definitely on Snake's terms. Don't cite G&W's upB as something even remotely comparable to Snake's. It may hit on frame 1, but that doesn't mean it's useful as anything other than a ghetto get-away option (or a shoddy comboing tool) .

How does snake deal with G&W if he has a lead and is forced to approach?

That's like asking how does Jiggs deal with Sheik if she has a lead and Jiggs is forced to approach (Jiggs wins that MU, in case you're wondering). Besides, I'd imagine that G&W sucks at holding leads. He can't really play keep-away, and he's so easy to kill. He'd have to actively be playing offensively in order to keep his lead, meaning that he'd still be on that upwards slope throughout the entire match. At the same time, it seems nearly impossible for the character to make up for a deficit without incurring some huge risk upon himself.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Why ask SB when Eli's right here? Oh yeah, that's why. Never mind, don't do it...

Serious talk about smashmods, what happens when you try to log in or post?

Whenever I make a post, no matter what I write, it shows up as "undefined"

Sanity's: I watched the first like 30 secs and saw you roll like 6 times. XD Also try to Cargo Uthrow rather than regular Uthrow. It's betta

Alright thanks, thought upthrow > upB would work, guess not lol

Sanity you use fair too much.
Oh wait, that's a good thing.

#DKisntfair

Can't tell if serious...

 

[bubbaking]

Whenever I make a post, no matter what I write, it shows up as "undefined"

Have you talked to one of the mods about it? I believe Neko and SB are both smashmods moderators, if I'm not mistaken.

Can't tell if serious...

#Itoldyou

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Have you talked to one of the mods about it? I believe Neko and SB are both smashmods moderators, if I'm not mistaken.

I let Strong Bad know, he was the only one online at the time, it's so weird, I would try on Internet Explorer but my computer shuts that down right when I start it up

 

[Professor Pro]

I guess people keep assuming I don't watch videos. I watch almost everything that has been mentioned in this thread and I've definitely seen you play with Snake.

If anything, I think you are just outplaying people, so take that as you will.

Who do you honestly think Snake has a good MU against? I can honestly think of like 10 off the top of my head that I believe are against his favor.

Well your statement was that snake was the worst in the game, and had no MU's in his favour, so people naturally think that you haven't seen any vids because it's a bizarre conclusion when suppossedly knowing the characters abilities..and im not playing him that well for the worst character to be dominating all of the UK

Snake does fine in a lot of MU's such as spacies, jiggz, and a lot of the Brawl Cast from what I have played so far, but I can tell you the ones I and other Snake players have struggled with are Marth, Peach, Sheik (until you learn the MU then it's not that bad)

G&W isn't heavy enough or falls fast enoguh to be combo'd very heavily against snake. Nikita is hardly an issue unless you are recovering. G&W's upb is also a thing.

How does snake deal with G&W if he has a lead and is forced to approach?

No offence, but you still don't have a good grasp of Snake to make an ending statement like that.
I approach all the time with a Stock Lead or Stock Loss. Snake doesn't need to run away and spam stuff the whole match to win, it isn't Brawl.

 

[Strong Badam]

I'm still looking into whatever is causing that, Sanity's. It's a really weird issue.

 

[ELI-mination]

This HD thing is really really really really obnoxious to do
I might just scrap it and settle for 480p

#Sigh

 

[bubbaking]

I let Strong Bad know, he was the only one online at the time, it's so weird, I would try on Internet Explorer but my computer shuts that down right when I start it up

What other browsers have you tried this on?

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I'm still looking into whatever is causing that, Sanity's. It's a really weird issue.

Thanks, I'm using firefox if that helps at all

What other browsers have you tried this on?

My computer shuts down IE so I can't use that, strangely I can't uninstall it either, damn windows 7, I'll try out google chrome I guess

 

[bubbaking]

Snake does fine in a lot of MU's such as spacies, jiggz, and a lot of the Brawl Cast from what I have played so far, but I can tell you the ones I and other Snake players have struggled with are Marth, Peach, Sheik (until you learn the MU then it's not that bad)

This is practically the same conclusion that Eli and Leelue came to as well (regarding Marth and Sheik, anwyay).

I also like Lucario's MU against Snake (from Lucario's side, of course).

 

[DMG]

Marth big sword big peepee. Upb won't stop Peach Dsmash, and Shiek just grabz omg boring char 10Umbreonshateher

Does Snake Upb stuff Falco Dair, or will his feet win/they trade?

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Ok so I can post on smashmods with google chrome, but it still won't work on firefox, that's dumb, might it be a compatibility issue? I know my firefox just updates itself all the time

 

[Strong Badam]

LOL it works with Chrome but not Firefox? wtf.

 

[Vigilante]

It works on Firefox, I have been using it for a long time.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

LOL it works with Chrome but not Firefox? wtf.

Yep.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRNEzabKiTM

 

[Professor Pro]

This is practically the same conclusion that Eli and Leelue came to as well (regarding Marth and Sheik, anwyay).

I also like Lucario's MU against Snake (from Lucario's side, of course).

Yeah i've played it a good few times against Fuzzyness and have just started coming to grips with the MU and beating him in it more then he beats me, I feel it's slightly in Lucario's favour but I honestly feel Lucario is the best in the game so everything is in his favour lol.

Sheik is gay when you don't have exp against her, but i've played quite a lot overtime from someone who keeps on tryna CP in whatever MU they feel is good against Snake (Alpha Dash lol) and realized it's actually not that bad at all.

Not sure if they've played against Peach yet but that's def a hard MU

 

[bubbaking]

Ok so I can post on smashmods with google chrome, but it still won't work on firefox, that's dumb, might it be a compatibility issue? I know my firefox just updates itself all the time

I almost never use FF for anything. I use Chrome for all my internet needs, including posting on SWF and Smashmods.

Yeah i've played it a good few times against Fuzzyness and have just started coming to grips with the MU and beating him in it more then he beats me, I feel it's slightly in Lucario's favour but I honestly feel Lucario is the best in the game so everything is in his favour lol.

I've honestly felt this way for a very, very, very, VERY long time. I guess it took other people a little while to see things the way I've seen it. In my very first version of my speculative tier list, I placed Lucario at #1 tied with Fox. Due to peer pressure, I moved him down to #2 while keeping Fox at #1. I'm starting to think that my original opinion may not have been wrong after all.

 

[Hylian]

I think lucario is the best in the game as well from everything I've seen. I do think he has some match-ups that are hard for him though and I don't think he's broken.

 

[ELI-mination]

Pssh where are all these Lucarios at? Come see me.

#TimeToGet4Stocked

 

[iLink]

I find it kind of hard to argue that lucario is better then fox and falco.

Also I would like to hear some solid MU's that are in Snake's favor.

 

[Hylian]

I find it kind of hard to argue that lucario is better then fox and falco.

Also I would like to hear some solid MU's that are in Snake's favor.

Well I think lucario beats fox and goes evenish with falco so *shrugs* pretty easy to argue for me lol.

 

[iLink]

I think fox and falco are probably one of his worst MU's. They can both camp him, can render his projectile usefulness to only a few situational uses, and they both don't have much trouble comboing him. Lucario doesn't really have a good way to deal with pressure and has a hard time getting either of them off him. Not to mention they both have better leading attacks then Lucario does.

They both just seem to outclass him in most cases.

 

[bubbaking]

Pssh where are all these Lucarios at? Come see me.

#TimeToGet4Stocked

You never four-stocked my Lucario and you never will. Of that, I'm certain.

#EvenCheckedThatRapedBubbakingPlaylist
#NeverGot4StockedWithLucario

 

[DMG]

Lucario also has Marth which is not a fun MU. Peach doesn't look fun either. Now Ganon or Falcon on the other hand... idk if it's just me but I find those hard to use vs Lucario.

 

[iLink]

Lucario man handles ganon. Falcon isn't as easy but probably still slightly in Lucario's favor.

 

[bubbaking]

I find it kind of hard to argue that lucario is better then fox and falco.

Also I would like to hear some solid MU's that are in Snake's favor.

I tied Lucario with Fox in my first tier list. I think Lucario is about as good as Fox, not better. He's better than Falco, though.

I don't think anyone here is going to agree with you that Snake doesn't beat G&W.

Well I think lucario beats fox and goes evenish with falco so *shrugs* pretty easy to argue for me lol.

Funny, I had the inverse opinion. I think Lucario beats Falco and goes evenish with Fox.

I think fox and falco are probably one of his worst MU's. They can both camp him, can render his projectile usefulness to only a few situational uses, and they both don't have much trouble comboing him. Lucario doesn't really have a good way to deal with pressure and has a hard time getting either of them off him. Not to mention they both have better leading attacks then Lucario does.

They both just seem to outclass him in most cases.

You're theorycrafting again. Lucario can DT through lasers to effectively approach against camping. At a certain range, Falco's lasers just aren't safe anymore like they are against most of the rest of the cast. Try a laser and he might end up eating a combo to the face. Even without super, DT has very little lag. Lucario's projectile was never really used for much anyway. I never use AS against Zelda (not exactly true, but almost). You're actually right that Lucario doesn't have a good way to deal with pressure, but his DT allows him to escape it pretty well, and his OoS aerials are on par with the spacees'. Lucario can also combo the spacees from 0-to-death on most, if not all, stages. "They both have better leading attacks than Lucario does?" Do you know how much priority Lucario's attacks have? Do you know exactly how much space his DA covers? That stuff is almost Ike-level range.

Lucario also has Marth which is not a fun MU. Peach doesn't look fun either.

That may be true, but don't forget that Marth goes even with BOTH spacees in Melee (and probably P:M, too), so Marth having an okay MU against Lucario does not make him worse than the spacees by any means. Peach? Peach's CC ability is nullified by Lucario's OHC system and his ability to escape any CCC with DT or FP before he gets hit. It's the same as one of the reasons that Bowser gets bodied by Lucario.

 

[Strong Badam]

I don't think Lucario is the best character in the game. Sheik/Peach/Puff are likely not in his favor for example.

 

[ph00tbag]

Going just by the characters' inherent strengths and weaknesses, Lucario should be a smear on Fox's canopy.

Lucario is a strong character, but let's face it, a character has to be on a whole other level to compete with Fox.

 

[iLink]

You're theorycrafting again. Lucario can DT through lasers to effectively approach against camping. At a certain range, Falco's lasers just aren't safe anymore like they are against most of the rest of the cast. Try a laser and he might end up eating a combo to the face. Even without super, DT has very little lag. Lucario's projectile was never really used for much anyway. I never use AS against Zelda (not exactly true, but almost). You're actually right that Lucario doesn't have a good way to deal with pressure, but his DT allows him to escape it pretty well, and his OoS aerials are on par with the spacees'. Lucario can also combo the spacees from 0-to-death on most, if not all, stages. "They both have better leading attacks than Lucario does?" Do you know how much priority Lucario's attacks have? Do you know exactly how much space his DA covers? That stuff is almost Ike-level range.

Lucario is easily the one character I've put the most time into so I'm not theorycrafting lol. DT only helps so much. You can't use it willynilly in either of their faces without having a charge ready to cancel it, which you won't always have. The cooldown on it is definitely long enough for either of them to punish it after landing from a laser. The only real use it has in the MU (besides canceling it) is as a crossup mixup on hit/shield. It doesn't have as much invincibility as you probably think it does.

I've found that most "combos" lucario has are pretty avoidable with proper DI. Not even hardcore SDI, but just regular DI. He has to read which way the opponent is going to DI before committing to his next attack.

I would argue that his DA is his one good leading attack, and spacies can bait it pretty hard or just jump over it entirely and beat it with most of their aerials.

Priority only takes him so far when their attacks are literally just faster and stuff out lucario's attacks.

 

[bubbaking]

I don't think Lucario is the best character in the game. Sheik/Peach/Puff are likely not in his favor for example.

I still fail to see how Peach has the advantage in this MU. By design, Lucario counters CC's. I know this isn't everything, but it's a pretty darn huge chunk of many of Peach's MUs.

Going just by the characters' inherent strengths and weaknesses, Lucario should be a smear on Fox's canopy.

Lucario is a strong character, but let's face it, a character has to be on a whole other level to compete with Fox.

The spacees also have weaknesses that Lucario doesn't share. For instance, Lucario doesn't get CG'd or combo'd even nearly as hard as they do, and his recovery is a great, great deal better.

 

[GHNeko]

Fox will never be anything but 1st.

 

[ph00tbag]

The spacees also have weaknesses that Lucario doesn't share. For instance, Lucario doesn't get CG'd or combo'd even nearly as hard as they do, and his recovery is a great, great deal better.

But Fox should never get hit by anything Lucario has.

Except maybe Shadow Ball if getting hit means Fox is in a better position.

 

[Strong Badam]

you're playing very bad peach players if they're relying on CC. peach's neutral game is float spacing and turnips

 

[DMG]

Going just by the characters' inherent strengths and weaknesses, Lucario should be a smear on Fox's canopy.

Lucario is a strong character, but let's face it, a character has to be on a whole other level to compete with Fox.

Duh. Thank mostly shine for that, best Universal move in the game.

Fox will never be anything but 1st.

Well technically you could combine Lucario Ike and like Puff into one character and that would be better than Fox. What science can do is astonishing.