Project M Social Thread

[Kink-Link5]

Kink-"changes avatar every three seconds"Link5

As if my signature stays the same and the avatars are completely different from different sources, as opposed to a series with a purpose.

bombjumps.wmv uploading.

 

[bubbaking]

AGT's are extremely easy. If you can't do it wih the C-stick, just use the A button.

The early portion of his upb is invincible, I never said his recovery was terrible. I just really hate having to do an aerial in order to even try to air dodge. It just doesn't flow if you know what I mean.

Doesn't Snake kind of have the same problem? G&W, too, for that matter. I don't actually play these chars so I don't know, but could anyone confirm?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Bombjumps.wmv published finally.

 

[GHNeko]

Doesn't Snake kind of have the same problem? G&W, too, for that matter. I don't actually play these chars so I don't know, but could anyone confirm?

Snake and Sonic lose their DJ's after they up b and must aerial before they can air dodge.

GaW does not lose his DJ, and can aerial after his up B, but he cannot airdodge period after up B.

 

[DMG]

I finally decided to try and fool around with AGT/bomb jumping. It feels fine on Link, but either I'm missing something or it's a ton harder to do with TL. Maybe because his Upb Hitboxes are more horizontal than vertical? I have no idea but it's super duper easy to do it with Link and I feel like I gotta go read or watch a video for how to do it with TL lol.

Edit: Never mind TL does it too although his is weird... fell like I gotta get a "good" AGT where as you can be sloppy with Link. Again probably because of hitboxes or Link travels to the apex slower?

 

[`dazrin]

Bombjumps.wmv published finally.

As I thought, you aren't AGTing correctly. I'll be posting a video response shortly.

 

[kaizo13]

Bombjumps.wmv published finally.

i'm sorry but LOL wtf are u doing with that second jump. And also, "your toooo sloooow"

I'll leave this in the hands of 'Daz. good luck

 

[DMG]

You need to toss the bomb quicker from airdodge. When you see TL not really gain that much distance, it's because you either did not pick upwards direction for your airdodge (if you see TL briefly hover in 1 spot before tossing, that's what happens) or you toss it too slow. If you do the toss too slow, you throw the bomb later on in your airdodge (near the tip), and you also move later in the airdodge. Basically, the bomb itself doesn't care about your momentum, so the sooner you can release it the "lower" it gets released and the sooner you can Upb with momentum/at the top to hit it.

 

[leelue]

Snake and Sonic lose their DJ's after they up b and must aerial before they can air dodge.

GaW does not lose his DJ, and can aerial after his up B, but he cannot airdodge period after up B.

Damn
I can't play the "game, and watch" me get **** on by better characters.
That's so odd

 

[Rikana]

Sinz still with dat windrunner avatar. I miss dota 2.

 

[ELI-mination]

There seems to be almost no people who exclusively main spacies in P:M that don't also play melee as much/more than P:M.
Pretty interesting observation.

 

[GHNeko]

Who wants to play spacies in a game with dozens of viable characters? Wolf is like the only exception since he's a new spacie. I honestly believe most people play Fox and falco only because they used them in Melee and want to win through a top tier character / character familiarity.


which is why I kinda want to see exhibitional tourneys where people can play without true stakes and dont have to restort old top tier character mains to win.

 

[DMG]

Or they are basically content with those characters. Just because Mario got buffed or Ike's added doesn't mean I think PP should start using Sonic all of a sudden lol.

 

[Gimpel]

probs for actually practicing for a whole hour or even more
now I won't think you're a complete scrub anymore :3

now for the actual problem, p:m has that issue that you can have tilt air-dodges that don't go as far as the full ones. I don't know about you, but I usually do AGT with smashing the control stick up while pressing R to get an air dodge with the max distance/velocity.
The timing you have when throwing the bomb doesn't seem that far off but daze can explain that better
it's also important to UpB relatively fast after throwing the bomb, it looks like you're just a bit too slow sometimes.

let me know if smashing up for the air dodge helps, I'm not sure if I'm correct about that myself :3 It's just how I do it do avoid not going up enough when I AGT.
I personally was able to do it quite consistently after I started mashing the up input, might just be a placebo though so I don't know

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Who wants to play spacies in a game with dozens of viable characters?

*raises hand* I'd be all over that like a fly on a sugar cookie. ¦D

 

[ELI-mination]

That's exactly the point.
So why are spacies almost exact clones of their melee counterparts when they could potentially be interesting new different characters?

 

[GHNeko]

Or they are basically content with those characters. Just because Mario got buffed or Ike's added doesn't mean I think PP should start using Sonic all of a sudden lol.

yes. yes it does.

Dr.PP maining sonic would be hilarious.

*raises hand* I'd be all over that like a fly on a sugar cookie. ¦D

you're a dork.

That's exactly the point.
So why are spacies almost exact clones of their melee counterparts when they could potentially be interesting new different characters?

bcuz melee? the idea is to balance everyone to spacie level. If we start changing the spacies up, then our baseline changes and pretty much defeats the purpose since our baseline is blurred, potentially to the point of being unrecognizable.

that's my thought anyway.

 

[GP&B]

Melee top and high tier characters seem to serve more as a gateway that makes the transition between both games easier.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Why are people questioning the design of spacies in P:M? That's like, the basis for balance of the whole mod. Stop questioning it, it's not going to change. You aren't going to convince PMBR to start from scratch.

 

[ELI-mination]

Lol. The basis for this mod is "the spacies from melee".
Good **** drinking food.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

you're a dork.

Nah, Kink is a dork.

I'm a jerk. ¦3

So why are spacies almost exact clones of their melee counterparts when they could potentially be interesting new different characters?

I've always wondered this myself, honestly. I mean in Star Fox's case, they would've all had similar training, so it works in that sense, but him and Falco could still be much more different and still be efficient.

Like how Wolf is, although certain blind idiot think 4 similar special moves that completely different makes you a 100% clone. >>

 

[DrinkingFood]

I worded it badly, allow me to fix that.

I find it rather funny that you would mock the way I said that rather than address the point of my post, being "it's not going to change." That part you kinda just ignored. It seems you are rather intent on continuing to complain about them being the same.

 

[ELI-mination]

There is no point in your post though.
"It's not going to change" is not a point or an argument.

 

[DMG]

That's exactly the point.
So why are spacies almost exact clones of their melee counterparts when they could potentially be interesting new different characters?

You could ask that of any of the Melee characters who stayed relatively the same. CF Marth Peach etc

bcuz melee? the idea is to balance everyone to spacie level. If we start changing the spacies up, then our baseline changes and pretty much defeats the purpose since our baseline is blurred, potentially to the point of being unrecognizable.

that's my thought anyway.

That's an awful goal and I hope that's not the intent of this game/the PMBR. Seriously. You should aim for all of the characters to be more like CF, Marth, even Shiek. In fact, I'd love a game with characters closer to Ike than spacies hands down. They are RIDICULOUS characters. You can keep them the same for Melee sake, but the game becomes making characters who don't get ***** by them. Not more characters on that level. Maybe that's what you meant because this game should obviously not be trying to make everyone ridiculous like that. That's what you would have to do to make characters that good, and the implications for the rest of the cast are awful. Especially since you'd have to do more than tune them vs spacies in particular, but be good vs the rest of the cast WHILE those characters are good vs Spacies and don't get ***** by said earlier character, and so on and so forth.

 

[DrinkingFood]

@Eli
It's a fact. On that basis, it is an argument for "why you should stop whining about it." But don't take my word for it. Ask PMBR, they're in charge of this.

 

[`dazrin]

Bombjumps.wmv published finally.

How to AGToonLink -Part1, my toonlink tutorial has been uploaded! I plan on continuing this series as there are more toon link tricks to show people, but I hope this helps.

Additionally, I streamed a bit after the filming of that video showing the inputs of all these tricks. It's a bit of a hassle to comb through, but if you want some more help regarding the input and how it looks like, you can watch the stream archive here. If you start from 15:00, I personally address your problem and stuff, but I also show some helpful things in the beginning as well.

I hope for your own sake, you learn how to bombjump with Toon Link. Good luck and hope it helps!

 

[Kink-Link5]

i'm sorry but LOL wtf are u doing with that second jump. And also, "your toooo sloooow"

I'll leave this in the hands of 'Daz. good luck

I'm not using a double jump at all...? I use up the double jump before I do the air dodge to prevent it from accidentally inputting jump while doing the other action. For 70/111 lives I used a jump to pluck the bomb. That's what I'm doing with the second jump.


Why are you all such ****ing pricks?

 

[ELI-mination]

Regardless of what you think, one the keys to perfecting a design is to find out it's flaws and correct them. One way you discover flaws is through your own testing and analysis, but another way is to consider feedback. If the PMBR was so rock solid on the changes or designs they implement, they wouldn't even have applications for people to join them. They need feedback in order to perfect their design.

I inquired about why the spacies are the way they are, that's all. For you to take an attitude and say that I'm complaining, I thought you were just trolling tbh.

But to say "it's not going to change" adds nothing to this conversation. Because you are not PMBR. And I'm sure that each individual member of the PMBR doesn't actually agree on every little thing. The only one up there in a dark castle on a mountain top is Magus, and that's because he is literally a wizard.
But seriously, nothing is without the probability of revision. That's why there are demos.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Why are you all such ****ing pricks?

Because we don't have lolis for avatars that make us seem nice.

 

[GHNeko]

That's an awful goal and I hope that's not the intent of this game/the PMBR. Seriously. You should aim for all of the characters to be more like CF, Marth, even Shiek. In fact, I'd love a game with characters closer to Ike than spacies hands down. They are RIDICULOUS characters. You can keep them the same for Melee sake, but the game becomes making characters who don't get ***** by them. Not more characters on that level. Maybe that's what you meant because this game should obviously not be trying to make everyone ridiculous like that. That's what you would have to do to make characters that good, and the implications for the rest of the cast are awful. Especially since you'd have to do more than tune them vs spacies in particular, but be good vs the rest of the cast WHILE those characters are good vs Spacies and don't get ***** by said earlier character, and so on and so forth.

Well if you look at the demo, that's how characters are. A bunch of people are being given natural anti-spacie technology, while outside of that are characters that are on the level of the high tiers and maybe shiek at the highest.

We're not trying to make characters ridiculous lol.

I guess I said the wrong thing lol because the way we're going at characters now is pretty much how it's been and is going to be, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Don't take what I say as the absolute truth until it's backed by other PMBR members though. I'd hate to misstep and have anyone hang onto my words. V:

 

[DrinkingFood]

Daze, see my comment on that video?

 

[JCaesar]

Regardless of what you think, one the keys to perfecting a design is to find out it's flaws and correct them. One way you discover flaws is through your own testing and analysis, but another way is to consider feedback. If the PMBR was so rock solid on the changes or designs they implement, they wouldn't even have applications for people to join them. They need feedback in order to perfect their design.

I inquired about why the spacies are the way they are, that's all. For you to take an attitude and say that I'm complaining, I thought you were just trolling tbh.

But to say "it's not going to change" adds nothing to this conversation. Because you are not PMBR. And I'm sure that each individual member of the PMBR doesn't actually agree on every little thing. The only one up there in a dark castle on a mountain top is Magus, and that's because he is literally a wizard.
But seriously, nothing is without the probability of revision. That's why there are demos.

We decided a long time ago that Melee high/top tiers are going to stay Melee. In addition to being our balancing baseline, they also serve as a comfortable transition point for Melee players. It's worked out well for us so far and is unlikely to ever change.

 

[Kink-Link5]

How to AGToonLink -Part1, my toonlink tutorial has been uploaded! I plan on continuing this series as there are more toon link tricks to show people, but I hope this helps.

Additionally, I streamed a bit after the filming of that video showing the inputs of all these tricks. It's a bit of a hassle to comb through, but if you want some more help regarding the input and how it looks like, you can watch the stream archive here. If you start from 15:00, I personally address your problem and stuff, but I also show some helpful things in the beginning as well.

I hope for your own sake, you learn how to bombjump with Toon Link. Good luck and hope it helps!

15+ Lab hours just makes this not worth doing at all. Like how much longer should it take? :/

Maybe I'll just use Jigglypuff.

 

[GHNeko]

Dude. Kink. Wear that lab coat until it's stained with the blood of your fingers. If you want to reach a high level, you're going to need to put in waaay more than a few days worth of game/lab time to even reach a mid level player's skill.

you gotta keep trucking.

 

[ELI-mination]

Damn, so disappointing.

 

[Vigilante]

Like Neko said, we gave characters tools to deal with the top tiers. You see, the top tiers are not "inherently good". They are good because of the comparison factor. Fox is good because he wrecks most of the cast. I you give other characters means to deal with this, he technically becomes less potent withing the scope of the game even if you don't actually change him.

A big problem Bowser had with Falco for example was that he couldn't approach him. Now, with the armour and the increased range, Falco actually has to be careful with his approach and can't just wreck him with ease like he used to.

Tiers are an alamgamation of matchups. Fox, Falco, Jiggs and Shiek are top tier because they tend to win against most characters in Melee with a very high margin. If you have a few more spacie counters, or just characters who fare better against them, they will become less "stupid" as a result. I personally think that at the end of Project M, a few characters from the top tiers might go down a notch.

 

[Kink-Link5]

High level for what ends? So I can beat randoms in Iowa who think Kirby's down B is a good move? It's been made more than clear enough to me that no one wants to carpool me to any tournament within a mere 14 hours drive, so there is really no point in getting frustrated over one thing for days on end.

Prove otherwise if you really believe otherwise, but not everyone gets to be blessed with living an hour from New York.

 

[MonkUnit]

Bombjumps.wmv published finally.

You can also recover by ADing upwards and throwing it downwards. This doesn't gain as much height as AGT upB does though. However, this helps his horizontal recovery, especially when you combine it with tethering. AD up throw down -> AD towards stage -> tether. If you need a vid on how to do this, check out vids of Frenum, me, or `Dazrin. Frenum shows this a lot in one of his vids

 

[DrinkingFood]

Like Neko said, we gave characters tools to deal with the top tiers. You see, the top tiers are not "inherently good". THey are good because of the comparison factor. Fox is good because he wrecks most of the cast. I you give other characters means to deal with this, he technically becomes less potent withing the scope of the game even if you don't actually change him.

A big problem Bowser had with Falco for example was that he couldn't approach him. Now, with the armour and the increased range, Falco actually has to be careful with his approach and can't just wreck him with ease like he used to.

Tiers are an alamgamation of matchups. Fox, Falco, Jiggs and Shiek are top tier because they tend to win against most characters in Melee with a very high margin. If you have a few more spacie counters, or jsut characters who fare better against them, they will become less "stupid" as a result. I personally think that at the end of Project M, a few characters from the top tiers might go down a notch.

So much this. I'm tired of people thinking that the only solution to the spacies is to nerf them and not make everyone better. The spacies were good at almost EVERYTHING and amazing and MOST things, but they weren't the BEST at everything. Characters don't necessarily have to have less weaknesses to beat them; they need to have stronger strengths, which is very much possible.

 

[ELI-mination]

I'll tell you right now that if you wanna bring characters up to spacies level, G&W has a really long way to go...... as do a lot of other characters.