Project M Social Thread

[Archangel]

I don't think anyone will ever Counter hypothetical Fox. However with dangerous/new characters in project M fox may finally lose the number 1 spot.....at least until the physics are completely the same as melee...then we are all ****ed

 

[ELI-mination]

I think the Fox-ified version of Mario says it all.

 

[abcool]

I have a seen a video of the developers build and it really looks a little more smooth. Ledgeteching looks fixed, although i am not entirely sure and momentum stacking also looks fixed aswell. Idk, about shield they still push people off the stage, but overall it looks more touched up in terms of smoothness. Falco is definitely back to his former glory. Fox on the other hand still not soo much. But, i might have been wrong.

 

[GHNeko]

Okay for MU discussion against Fox/Blue Fox, let's assume human error, as opposed to theory perfection lol.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I actually feel like Bowser is a Fox/spacie counter.

Spoiler

preparing my anus for a swift and harsh rebuttal

 

[GHNeko]

Fox, not really.

Falco? I don't think he's heavily disadvantaged, but at best including a CP in bowser's favour, he can go even.

Wolf? It's more likely than you think.

 

[Hylian]

I actually feel like Bowser is a Fox/spacie counter.

Spoiler

preparing my anus for a swift and harsh rebuttal

I have a waaaayyyy harder time with bowser when I'm playing fox than any other character lol.

 

[`dazrin]

The Bowser-Spacie MU is surprisingly pretty decent for Bowser.

Every tournament match Yakal has played against a Bowser, (no matter the skill level of the Bowser player) it has always gone to a game 3 and been pretty close. Yakal has stated outright that he really feels like the match-up is very hard as Falco, especially because of the crawl armor going through lasers.

 

[GHNeko]

I have a waaaayyyy harder time with bowser when I'm playing fox than any other character lol.

Really? I figured fox could herp derp shine shine bowser all day.

But then again I guess crawl armor would impair that.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Crawl armor also withstands his dair.

 

[ELI-mination]

I hate fighting bowser. His nair is a combo breaker lol. So you have to bait a lot of his stuff in order to safely fight him.

 

[Metà]

crawl doesn't beat n-air though

bowser gets kinda destroyed in the camping game ok n some stages though. and his up-b oos still can't deal with fox's ridiculous shield pressure mix-ups

i haven't really fought a good bowser with wolf yet, but if it's true what DF said about crawl armour withstanding the drill, it could be a tricky match-up

 

[GHNeko]

crawl might not beat nair, but CCing is still there for nair. So a combination of crawling and crouching could probably make bowser unapproachable to some degree.

At least possibly.

 

[Metà]

CC doesn't beat drills very well though, does it? in melee it was pretty safe for fox to d-air shine someone who tries to CC, as long as your timing is good

i think wolf would still give him a hard time though. once he does get the hit in, bowser is pretty helpless to his combos, especially considering how hard it is for him to SDI out of nairs (lol fatty) and how easy it is to land side-b finishers on him (shine to flash is easier than you think)

 

[`dazrin]

Meta be practicin dem flash combos.

 

[GHNeko]

Yeah but what kind of approach does wolf have against bowser though? I think wolf's ability to get in on him is worse out of the 3. :/

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

As said bowser crouch armor beats dair, and you can cc or just up b, or if timed right dsmash a fox coming in with a nair. Also as said shine does not beat crouch armor which is really nice (feels good). Also bowser has a very strong combo game on fox like most other characters, and lastly bowser has a great gimping game vs the space animals. So yea its a pretty good mu for bowser

 

[red stone]

Here is just a suggestion for the people working on project M to consider.

I would like there to be a reason not to L-cancel. Back in melee, i remember that if peach doesn't L-cancel her fair, then marth will miss his shield-grab because peach is pseudo-ducking.

I feel that this adds a nice layer of depth to the game if certain other characters could perform this pseudo-duck via not L-canceling.

Again, this is just a suggestion. I think project M has the ability to be perhaps the greatest fighting game of all time, and I think it's the little things that make a fighting game great.

My overall philosophy on fighting games is that many have balance issues. This can be addressed in Project M. Fighting games don't usually reward creativity. Usually, you can just abuse something and it will work. For this, I just say make every move in the game somewhat useful and have multiple properties. This will give way to multiple playstyles, thus enhancing the game's longevity. Another thing I want to address is campiness. I feel that compared to other fighting games, smash matches last quite a while. I say just make sure camping is kept to a minimum. Perhaps put an in game edge grab limit if it hasn't already been done. Like may 5 edge grabs and then the character will automatically stand up from the ledge. Incorporate more moderately sized stages. etc.

I'm not sure on the future of project M, but I hope it gains a large following because I think it is worthy of it.

 

[GHNeko]

not gonna happen bcuz melee

 

[ZeonStar]

The Project M team is doing a good job in not giving in to PLEASE NERF THIS AND BUFF THAT PLEASE requests right off. Having the metagame develop and matchups grow and such for a while is a good idea. Honestly though I still itch to play some of the unfinished characters.

 

[ph00tbag]

not gonna happen bcuz melee

bcuz poor game design is justified by nostalgia.

 

[Life]

Here is just a suggestion for the people working on project M to consider.

I would like there to be a reason not to L-cancel. Back in melee, i remember that if peach doesn't L-cancel her fair, then marth will miss his shield-grab because peach is pseudo-ducking.

I feel that this adds a nice layer of depth to the game if certain other characters could perform this pseudo-duck via not L-canceling.

Again, this is just a suggestion. I think project M has the ability to be perhaps the greatest fighting game of all time, and I think it's the little things that make a fighting game great.

My overall philosophy on fighting games is that many have balance issues. This can be addressed in Project M. Fighting games don't usually reward creativity. Usually, you can just abuse something and it will work. For this, I just say make every move in the game somewhat useful and have multiple properties. This will give way to multiple playstyles, thus enhancing the game's longevity. Another thing I want to address is campiness. I feel that compared to other fighting games, smash matches last quite a while. I say just make sure camping is kept to a minimum. Perhaps put an in game edge grab limit if it hasn't already been done. Like may 5 edge grabs and then the character will automatically stand up from the ledge. Incorporate more moderately sized stages. etc.

I'm not sure on the future of project M, but I hope it gains a large following because I think it is worthy of it.

We aren't supposed to talk about changing l-canceling according to the OP (apparently they got trolled too much over it when the thread was new or something).

Personally, though, I agree. I think l-canceling is, in its current form, a pointless mechanic, and that it should be either removed or made into a decision (I favored making it cause aerials to stale faster, but that's just one idea). But PMBR won't because Melee.

And this game isn't campy at all (but I play Brawl so maybe my frame of reference is skewed). Certain matchups can get campy (Jiggs, Zelda, Peach, maybe Link/TL lend themselves to longer matches), but the game as a whole is perfectly fine.

I do have things to say about stages, but that's upthread and I pretty much just got ignored because this thread is hyperactive and the subject changed before I finished my post.

 

[ELI-mination]

So that Anna Nicole Smith had some big boobs, huh

 

[metroid1117]

Personally, though, I agree. I think l-canceling is, in its current form, a pointless mechanic, and that it should be either removed or made into a decision (I favored making it cause aerials to stale faster, but that's just one idea). But PMBR won't because Melee.

I really hope this doesn't spur another debate, but here's a post I made much earlier in the thread regarding why L-canceling should not be changed:

Any form of aerial shield pressure that involves landing near the opponent requires some sort of lag canceling (auto-cancel, L-cancel, float cancel, etc) in order to be effective. For example, Falcon's strong knee -> jab cannot be shield-grabbed when done properly, as well as Fox/Falco's NAir -> shine or DAir -> shine. If you don't L-cancel, you run the risk of getting shield-grabbed without proper spacing. That being said, truly un-punishable shield pressure with spacies is something that requires frame-perfect precision, considering that players have to time when the aerial hits the shield (so they can fastfall), the shield stun, when they can input the fastfall, and when they can input the L-cancel. This reliance on perfection is something that players like M2K exploit; in this match, for example, you can see how M2K does a slight light shield and angles his shield slightly upward. This changes the amount of shield stun the players undergo and when the shield stun occurs, causes Lucky to miss one fastfall in the middle of his NAir -> shine pillar and get grabbed. While it's hard to tell whether Lucky got punished for missing an L-cancel as well as the fast-fall, the point is that L-canceling is a technique that requires precision, and this precision can (in some cases) be exploited by the person being attacked.

 

[GHNeko]

bcuz poor game design is justified by nostalgia.

hey

regardless of what i think of it

or what anyone thinks of it

or the reasons for it being in

or its justifications

its in. it's not changing.

that and we're not supposed to talk about it. so it ends here. unless you want me to SHFFL Infract you all day.

this is aimed at everyone to. so lets just stop this wavethoughtprocess combo.

and go back to actually discussing **** lol.


Kappa

 

[ELI-mination]

Yea guys
Come on

 

[DrinkingFood]

TL;DR it's not a pointless mechanic.

 

[ph00tbag]

I really hope this doesn't spur another debate, but here's a post I made much earlier in the thread regarding why L-canceling should not be changed:

The original post you made does a fine point of illustrating that l-canceling isn't broken, and how a metagame developed around it. But that's not really the point of contention. The problem with l-canceling is that it creates an arbitrary point of failure for one player with no trade-off, which places all the cost for approaching on the aggressor. M2K has no cost associated with light-shielding to stop Lucky from l-canceling. If l-canceling cost some unit that had more general utility, then preventing Lucky from l-canceling would have given Lucky more options. As it is, mixing Lucky up costs M2K nothing.

From a player's perspective, yeah, you just have to deal with it, but from a game design perspective, this is really sloppy.

 

[GHNeko]

I agree, it is poor game design, from a casual and competitive perspective.

but this isnt the thread for that.

posts below this post that talk about L-cancel are gonna be taken for a ride, so i suggest talking more theorysmash about who counters Fax.

 

[red stone]

I think my post has been taken out of context. I was never against l-canceling. I like it in the game.

My main point is that pseudo-ducking would be nice for some characters to have on specific moves. It is not a debate over l-canceling, but merely a game mechanic that is both character and move specific.

for example, I think that mario's fair should duck upon not l-canceling because of how he bends over forward during the end of it. I don't however advocate any of his other aerials doing the same because it makes no sense in the context of the move.

also I don't think that all character should even have it. maybe just a handful of characters as long as the hitbox makes sense.

 

[ph00tbag]

No one counters Fox.

 

[iLink]

Kinda off-topic but to anyone that uses my CSP, which would you prefer from the 2 examples given?

Spoiler

All my preferred choices are on the right but since I share it I figured I'd let others decide too.

 

[abcool]

Yo guys. Did Kage vs Darkrain ever get recorded at FC the Project M one ofcourse. I don't think i have seen it yet. Can someone link me to the vid.

 

[DMG]

I don't think anyone will ever Counter hypothetical Fox. However with dangerous/new characters in project M fox may finally lose the number 1 spot.....at least until the physics are completely the same as melee...then we are all ****ed

As of right now, he feels #1 lol. He's not the only one getting impacted by the new characters. Marth Shiek Falco and even Jiggs gotta keep up with the new stuff.

No one counters Fox.

Mario with Marth's grab range and Sword


Bowser stuff: I hate that damn armor of his. GRAB HIM! He's a big target and can't CC/armor throws. Get him in the air. At least that's the answer for Falcon lool.

 

[GHNeko]

actually

speaking of FC.

i saw the non-final matches for singles got posted by 15... I think?

does anyone know if he posted them or not?

 

[ph00tbag]

Mario with Marth's grab range and Sword

Okay, no one that actually exists.

 

[`dazrin]

Kinda off-topic but to anyone that uses my CSP, which would you prefer from the 2 examples given?

Spoiler

All my preferred choices are on the right but since I share it I figured I'd let others decide too.

Cool stuff. I agree with all your preferred choices besides toon link. I think the one on the left looks more natural. His arms look kinda weird and chunky, but that might be just me. Peach's left portrait looks pretty cute too, I think I prefer the left one. The rest on the right are fine. Why do you have a squirtle csp though? haha

 

[iLink]

Cool stuff. I agree with all your preferred choices besides toon link. I think the one on the left looks more natural. His arms look kinda weird and chunky, but that might be just me. Peach's left portrait looks pretty cute too, I think I prefer the left one. The rest on the right are fine. Why do you have a squirtle csp though? haha

Well I wasn't going to add squirtle yet but I figured I'm might as well ask about him too while I'm at it.

 

[batistabus]

Kinda off-topic but to anyone that uses my CSP, which would you prefer from the 2 examples given?

Tink: Left
Ganon: Right
Falcon: Left
Peach: Left
Pit: Right
Squirtle: Right

I love your CSPs and I'd use them either way, but those are my two cents.

 

[GHNeko]

NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS.


Kappa