Project M Social Thread

[JediKnightTemplar]

I seriously need help on how to do the AGT. I've searched for tutorials and I still can't pull it off, PM's regarding advice on it would be appreciated.

Alternatively if you're using a wiichuk (assuming default controls) it's Z -> ^A.

 

[ELI-mination]

The existence of crouch cancelling, whether it's silly or not, forces you to reconsider your approach.
For example (and this isn't crouch cancelling), many times I'll sit there shielding near the ledge of a platform. If my opponent hits my shield and it pushes me off the platform, I'll be able to punish them in response.
Crouch cancelling is similar in that respect, except your position matters much less but you take damage. The reason it isn't broken is because it works on specific attacks and it's better for certain characters than others. If you entered a tournament and relied purely on crouch cancelling, sorry but you'd get *****.
If anything I'd be for the idea that it could only be possible at lower percents than it is now, but it doesn't make too much of a difference to me.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Thread still moves too fast.

Rising Aerials, spaced aerials, and grabs still beat CC'ing, and all of them will add up damage. CC'ing is Smash's equivalent to chip damage, where the Shield is something of a "force guard"

 

[Revven]

Guess who's going to Melee FC-Legacy? Me! So, tally up another Broomer! :D

 

[Strong Badam]

PMBR vs. The World?!

 

[PGH Carroll]

That would be hype.^
Worlds got this

Also if your not CC sticking with snake WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?

 

[`dazrin]

Guess who's going to Melee FC-Legacy? Me! So, tally up another Broomer! :D

Glad you decided not to be lazy and head up to FC Looking forward to meeting you!

PMBR (minus shadic cuz he's being a lazy bum) VS THE WORLD

Let's show these guys that even though they've been playing this game for 2 years, we can still beat em at their own game!

Pegasus Millennium Back Room VS The world (Yugi Moto)

 

[CSDragon]

Anyways, @hylian
Projectiles, grabs, and disjointed moves all beat out CCing for obvious reasons, unless your opponent has some ungodly disjointed move that's quick to use out of a crouch

Reasons I love Marth :D

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Pegasus vs. Yugi?

It's like the battle of cool hair. This means the world has no chance against JC.

 

[Hylian]

Thread still moves too fast.

Rising Aerials, spaced aerials, and grabs still beat CC'ing, and all of them will add up damage. CC'ing is Smash's equivalent to chip damage, where the Shield is something of a "force guard"

Not really.

Say a DK crosses up my shield with nair. I full hop nair OOS as Link and drift away from him. If he CC's it he can run under me and start an uair string. This pretty much works till like 70% or even 100% on some moves :/. Really limits your options to purely defensive options such as rolling away or just jumping away and doesn't require any thought for the DK and comes with hardly any risk.

I find myself rolling wayyyy more than I would like in this game than I did in melee because CCing and situations like this.

 

[FRENUM]

I know this isnt the right place to post this, but is there something wrong with brawl vault atm? Whenever i click on a specific stage or character for new characters a get a "problem" window. Any idea?


Edit: Nvm figured it out

 

[`dazrin]

Pegasus vs. Yugi?

It's like the battle of cool hair. This means the world has no chance against JC.

You obviously haven't seen my hair, bro.



FRENUM omg just get a skype account. It'll take you 1 minute and I can finally discuss stuff with you lmao

 

[CORY]

daze isn't your real dad! he can't tell you what to do!

 

[RaphaelRobo]

You obviously haven't seen my hair, bro.



FRENUM omg just get a skype account. It'll take you 1 minute and I can finally discuss stuff with you lmao

I saw you on the stream at your last tournament. You appeared to be a guy, which must mean you're an extremely masculine girl.

Besides, aren't there better players than you for the world team? I assumed they'd take the top 5 Melee players and top 5 Brawl players that are attending FC, and make them a team.

 

[`dazrin]

I saw you on the stream at your last tournament. You appeared to be a guy, which must mean you're an extremely masculine girl.

Besides, aren't there better players than you for the world team? I assumed they'd take the top 5 Melee players and top 5 Brawl players that are attending FC, and make them a team.

Jeeez. y u so srs
I'm just kidding around, bro. RELAX haha it was just a joke
But seriously, my hair is cool.

And yeah I am a guy. Just because I have a girl on my avatar doesn't change my gender. My gf sometimes sees my tabs open when she's at my house and posts some dumb stuff sometimes though. Besides facebook, there are NO girls on the internet! Y'all should know that by now!-

Right, Specks?

 

[Divinokage]

A team? What are you talking about?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Jeeez. y u so srs
I'm just kidding around, bro. RELAX haha it was just a joke
But seriously, my hair is cool.

And yeah I am a guy. Just because I have a girl on my avatar doesn't change my gender. My gf sometimes sees my tabs open when she's at my house and posts some dumb stuff sometimes though. Besides facebook, there are NO girls on the internet! Y'all should know that by now!-

Right, Specks?

I figured it was a joke. That's why I had my ultra serious comment about you being a masculine girl.

However, if I meet you in person, we shall have a contest to decide who has the cooler hair.

 

[`dazrin]

I figured it was a joke. That's why I had my ultra serious comment about you being a masculine girl.

However, if I meet you in person, we shall have a contest to decide who has the cooler hair.

Hair coolness MM. Omg hype.

And yeah that comment was too serious for my taste. Hurt my feelings.

 

[FRENUM]

Skype name: tomsilva91

 

[ph00tbag]

However, the thing you are forgetting is that the vast majority of CC's use is not during the crouch action. I'd be willing to bet 75% of CCing is done crouch-less, because all the mechanism is as simple as SDIing into the stage when not on a downwards trajectory. With that said, crouching's knockback reduction helps with this, but still, just wanted to nip this in the bud.

I'm well aware. Incidentally, I think this is the more imbalanced aspect of the mechanic, and the last time I made this point, people told me I didn't know how CCing worked.

Go figure.

 

[Juushichi]

Glad you decided not to be lazy and head up to FC Looking forward to meeting you!

PMBR (minus shadic cuz he's being a lazy bum) VS THE WORLD

Let's show these guys that even though they've been playing this game for 2 years, we can still beat em at their own game!

Pegasus Millennium Back Room VS The world (Yugi Moto)

Solid idea, lol.

 

[FRENUM]

Can anyone link me to the green melee FD I keep seeing everywhere

 

[`dazrin]

Can anyone link me to the green melee FD I keep seeing everywhere

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4182.html

 

[kaizo13]

i'm rather surprised by people's take on CC'ing

I think its fine tbh. It's all part of knowing your character's ins-and-outs.
what moves you can and can't do at certain percentages. Don't see how that doesn't add any depth to the game.

 

[Sethlon]

Say a DK crosses up my shield with nair. I full hop nair OOS as Link and drift away from him. If he CC's it he can run under me and start an uair string. This pretty much works till like 70% or even 100% on some moves :/. Really limits your options to purely defensive options such as rolling away or just jumping away and doesn't require any thought for the DK and comes with hardly any risk.

While its true that is an example of rising aerials not beating CC, thats a pretty narrow minded focus. Link has a lot of other things he could do out of shield; the safest being just bair OoS instead, fast falling the second kick so its not punishable. If the Link wanted to be more ballsy, he could just dair OoS if he thinks the DK is going to take the hit; he could jump away and charge an arrow/throw a boomerang, etc. He could wavedash away and poke with jab/ftilt. The depth here lies in that it forces Link to do unorthodox OoS options; otherwise nair OoS would be his only go-to punish.

Removing CCing completely would completely change game balance, too. Good jabs would suddenly become much more powerful (and they're pretty good already IMO). Fast characters like sheik could suddenly attack with abandon instead of having to approach carefully. Peach would lose one of her biggest assets, and fox wouldn't have much of a reason to dair anymore. Would take a lot of re-balancing, and it seems fine as is to me.

 

[DMG]

Just tone down CCing. Idk what happened in the shift to P:M but you are able to CC attacks at much higher % than Melee and that's not good. I'm guessing part of it is the body collision being different for Brawl than Melee honestly.

Either way, you can keep CC in the game but it's gotta be toned down from what it currently looks like in P:M because it does feel more ridiculous than Melee lol.

 

[Revven]

No, it's actually because a lot of moves haven't been taken into consideration with regards to CC'ing when being made (mainly, Brawl characters and new moves/edited moves for vets)

How well a move can be CC'd depends on the move's SDI multiplier and nothing more IIRC. Otherwise, CC'ing is the same as Melee, it's not anymore potent.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Mine came with ULead Studio,; what now?

Windows:

Recording: Virtual Dub (Ajp Antonio uses it)

Streaming: Xsplit

Mac:

Record: VideoGlide

Streaming:Adobe Flash Media Encoded

 

[abcool]

First Star/Screen KOS now CC'ing. I guess next week we will have JC grabs as being to stupid/potent.

Anyway, CC in Project M as of now is WORST than in Melee. If you are near a ledge and you CC any strong attack it's instant death. So, all you have to do is take the CC'ing spammer near the ledge and free stock.

As for it being in Melee. I am a Samus main and without it i wouldn't even play her at all. It helps in certain situations, but most characters (high/Top) beat it. Falco's dair, Fox dair, Peach dsmash, Marth dair, Luigi Dair/Nair combo, Jiggs Dair, Sheik grab to generic combos, Falcon/Ganon dair. The punishes out of CC is not that great unless you're peach everyone else the move is situational. In Melee ofcourse. Not to mention how much easier it is to get grabbed since you're already holding down. On reaction doesn't work for characters like fox and falco when you can't really approach with grounded moves since most of their "Good" approaches are aerials.

 

[ph00tbag]

Really, the things I have issue with as far as CCing goes are thus:

During low knockback, multi-hit moves, you can SDI downward until you're able to ASDI into the ground. I don't know if it was possible in Melee, but it has happened to me in P:M.

You can CC during your own moves' animations. This strikes me as CCing's biggest offense, because it forgives players for their own bad spacing and decision-making by preventing several kinds of punishment.

The input is perpetual. There's no window after which you cease to CC. So rather than CCing being tool of prediction/reaction that requires skill and timing to implement, it's a continuous state that's incredibly simple to achieve, and that forces your opponent to play totally differently. The cost-benefit ratio is thrown totally out of whack by this aspect. If the move had more of a slashback like quality to it, where it had a window of success, I'd have much less of an issue with it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You can CC during your own moves' animations. This strikes me as CCing's biggest offense, because it forgives players for their own bad spacing and decision-making by preventing several kinds of punishment.

The input is perpetual. There's no window after which you cease to CC. So rather than CCing being tool of prediction/reaction that requires skill and timing to implement, it's a continuous state that's incredibly simple to achieve, and that forces your opponent to play totally differently. The cost-benefit ratio is thrown totally out of whack by this aspect. If the move had more of a slashback like quality to it, where it had a window of success, I'd have much less of an issue with it.

I agree with this limiting potential depth by a good deal. It would be nice to see it only work during a crouch/crawl animation.

I wonder how easy it would be to achieve that. If I'm not mistaken, Brawl (and maybe Melee) has a "counter hit" property where an opponent takes ~20% extra knockback if they're charging a Smash attack when they're hit. I bet that would be a decent starting point to applying such a thing to the coding.

I think it's worth noting that DI works in the same way as CCing in not being difficult to implement. Like, imagine if in order to DI, you had to start holding the direction after you got hit and not any frames earlier. I'm not sure how people would feel about that. Keep in mind that this is just a comparison, rather than a real suggestion.

 

[hotdogturtle]

i'm rather surprised by people's take on CC'ing

I think its fine tbh. It's all part of knowing your character's ins-and-outs.
what moves you can and can't do at certain percentages. Don't see how that doesn't add any depth to the game.

This thread won't stop until people have picked out every single aspect of Melee and written lengthy explanations on why they're bad for the game.

When that happens I'm probably gonna quit playing this game. Watch, next someone is gonna go after directional airdodging. Or maybe short hopping since some characters unfairly have higher SHs than others?

 

[leelue]

I've thought that Jc grabs were dumb for a long time, only because many characters dont have adequate tradeoff to allow their dash grabs to be a good option.
That's all I want as far as grabs go. Universal tradeoffs.

 

[abcool]

This thread won't stop until people have picked out every single aspect of Melee and written lengthy explanations on why they're bad for the game.

When that happens I'm probably gonna quit playing this game. Watch, next someone is gonna go after directional airdodging. Or maybe short hopping since some characters unfairly have higher SHs than others?

Agreed. Once they remove CC or nerf it in anyway i am going back to Melee where my character actual plays the way i like her to be played.

Anyway, multihit moves can't be CC'ed if you are already in the air during the rapid jab portion in Melee. An CC'ing is only really good, if your character has a good punish out of it, which a lot of characters don't have. Especially if their smash attack is laggy. In other words big characters need it, small characters punish at low percents vs other weak hitting characters because of it.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Guyz shielding is bad because it changes the way the game plays!
All you have to do is shield when they get close and if they hit it you punish!
It's worse than ccing because it can be done at any percent.
Must be bad for the game so lets remove it!

 

[Pimpfish]

plugging in controlers is abd for the game because it requires no skill or thought and anyone can do it.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Thanks for the new signature. Rofl. Might not show up in this post if it's not quite long enough tho lol

 

[RaphaelRobo]

plugging in controlers is abd for the game because it requires no skill or thought and anyone can do it.

You're wrong about that. Do you have any idea how difficult it is for some people?

First, you have to find the little plug on the controller. I mean, how are you supposed to do that? They didn't put a neon sign on it or anything.

Then, once you finally manage to find the plug, you have to find the console. I don't know about you, but I think it's pretty easy to misplace those things. Plus, they look really similar to DVD players, TVs, computers, and smartphones. It's hard to tell which one is the console.

Them, once you finally find the console, you have to plug in the controller. Hopefully you haven't forgotten where the plug on the controller is, otherwise you'll have to find it all over again. Anyway, now you have to find where to plug it in on the console. And they're covered in holes, so you really have to go through and try each one until you get the right one. But what if there are multiple spots for the controller to go in? That's pretty confusing, but you just have to make a guess and hope you get the right one.

See? Plugging in a controller is pretty difficult. I hope you can appreciate that now. Some people really struggle with it, so you should learn to understand their feelings.

 

[Strong Badam]

I can't believe you actually went through the trouble to write all that out. Wow.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

When it comes to something like that, I go all out. Sometimes I think I should use my energy more productively, but that just isn't as fun.