Project M Social Thread

[`dazrin]

I do play an Ike that knows how to play their character. He didn't participate in the last BC PM tourney because he was away, but if he did, he would've won it easily and everyone agrees. Ike is super easy to pick up, but the ones that have no idea what they are doing are easy to deal with. The fact that Ike can continually QDWJ is unnecessary. He should have a below average recovery with the great onstage presence he has, and the fact that he doesn't need to go out that far to edgeguard with fair because of how much range and power it has. I was kidding about removing his ability to walljump out of QD, so relax.

And wow, combos + projectiles>Ike eh? Gee, I don't think I've tried that one out yet, thanks for the helpful advice! >_> I'm pretty sure I use projectiles + combos against everyone, bro. But yeah I know. It's just difficult to get in on him a lot of times.

Relax, haha didn't you want Ike a little worse anyways?

Time to nerf Ike? Heh.
Call me hipster, but I want him a little worse just so my main isn't everyone's main.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I do. But I don't think he's too good. I just think he's too popular lol. He should be nerfed maybe a small bit to compensate for the rate at which his meta will grow. But nothing so valuable to him as his wall jumps should be removed. Maybe small power reductions on some attacks, a slightly shorter range for QD, or less aether height.

If walled stages are such an issue though, just counter pick stages without them. You can also usually avoid walled stages in the first game too- most neutral stage lists are less than half walled stages.

 

[`dazrin]

Yeah, that was fairly obvious. I originally planned on CPing to Lylat, but that got removed from the BC stagelist haha. And I think the things you listed are much more valuable to Ike than multiple QD walljumps, but w/e lol

 

[DrinkingFood]

They wouldnt affect him a ridiculous amount if the changes were small.

 

[The_SuperiorTaste]

Just wanna say snake is a good troll character. Crouch under Marth's and Sheik's grab is so hilarious XD. I'm not sure about the other characters though since my friend only plays those two. Is there anyone else that snake can crouch under grabs?

 

[metroid1117]

Anyways, his wall jump decays pretty quickly. He can't use it to stall for long, as after about 5 jumps he gains next to no distance, and right after starts losing some. It is enough to recover on any walled stage, I'll give you that. But even on stages with walls, his recovery is only slightly above average. He can recover from low and close, top corners, and about a diagonal line inbetween. It's nowhere close to broken.
Besides, QDWJ benefits his edgeguarding.

I really disagree with this. The QDWJ is extremely good, you can do some crazy stuff with it in terms of edgeguarding and stalling if done quickly/properly. I seriously think that the decay is too insignificant, the best way would be to give him a cap of one or two jumps.

With regards to his recovery with walls, Ike is very annoying to edgeguard if he has that option. (Note: annoying, but not impossible.) The best way to edgeguard Aether is to grab the edge as Ike tosses Ragnell, then either hit Ike as he jumps up or force him to land on the stage. However, with the QDWJ, Ike has the option of stalling out those crucial invincibility frames that allow opponents to do that. Not only that, but with the distance that a charged QD can travel, he is basically guaranteed to have a shot at living as long as he doesn't get KO'd out-right and if he saves his jump. I firmly believe that a character so heavy and so hard-hitting should not have such a powerful recovery option.

By the way, WF, LS, LF, and GF of the tournament are up. In retrospect, I played a lot sloppier than I did in the earlier sets of the tournament.

WF - metroid (Ike) vs AD (D3/Lucario) (Reverse BAir combo)
LS - Lucien (Wolf) vs Remix (Lucario) (I have no idea what's up with the special effects, it's very distracting.)
LF - AD (Marth) vs Remix (Lucario) Pt 1 and Pt 2
GF - Remix (Lucario) vs metroid (Ike) (match 2 has some QDWJ stuff)

 

[DrinkingFood]

Ganon's I do believe. Probably all the other tallish characters as well, like falcon/Ike etc

 

[Fly_Amanita]

He has abysmal air speed. You are better off trying to get in on someone by powershielding then approaching from the air. I'm not saying you can't use his aerials against someone camping, but approaching in the air to fit off camping does not work well with him because he gets nowhere. It might just be because I play against campy toon/links which can throw their stuff at an angle, but I generally have very little success in going airborn to fight off camping.

On another note, I was unable to make it to the project m tournament today but I think GF ending in Ike dittos LOL

Nope, you can approach from the air pretty well. He moves slowly, but challenging him when he's airborne is dangerous for a lot of characters, so you can slowly drift in anyways. There are some match-ups in which I wouldn't advocate doing it frequently, but it's fine in others.

 

[SpiderMad]

I have no clue what I think about Ike anymore. Theoretical nerfing of his power rather than his speed is top priority to me, but I'd much rather discuss buffs for other characters.

 

[Kink-Link5]

He's 3 tiers above every character on wi-fi, we can establish that.

 

[Jamwa]

Anyone know where there are vids/forums/guides/anything for lucas or ness?

 

[JCaesar]

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/forum-6.html


We're streaming again today: http://www.twitch.tv/jcaesar

This time with Nintendude1189 (excellent Melee ICs player, just moved here) and hopefully Vist.

 

[PGH Carroll]

Nintendude just moved there? Yooooooooo

 

[CORY]

someone tell remix to use utaunt after he kills people instead of charging aura sphere or (worse...) just standing there. please.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Just spam projectiles.
Projectiles>Ike.
Also combo him
Combos>Ike

Anyways, his wall jump decays pretty quickly. He can't use it to stall for long, as after about 5 jumps he gains next to no distance, and right after starts losing some. It is enough to recover on any walled stage, I'll give you that. But even on stages with walls, his recovery is only slightly above average. He can recover from low and close, top corners, and about a diagonal line inbetween. It's nowhere close to broken.
Besides, QDWJ benefits his edgeguarding.

Regardless, Ike is easy to play in theory. Play someone who knows their character, and you may have to push to win with Ike. He has severe weaknesses. Stop complaining about his strengths.

In my experience all you have to do to beat Ike as Ness is get his damage to about ~50%, land a Bthrow and laugh as he fails to make it back to the stage.

 

[Samus-T]

Guys........... Super aerial glide toss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=891iaH0HucQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[DrinkingFood]

Oh my God. Don't touch it PMBR. Don't take the role of "Sakurai killing advanced techniques". Just don't do it.
pl0x

 

[Samus-T]

I will have a demonstration video up as soon as possible. Along with some other tricks <3

 

[Kink-Link5]

Buffered momentum changing moves out of hitstun are often glitchy like that.

Diddy floats up while charging his barrels lol.

 

[MaxThunder]

Guys........... Super aerial glide toss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=891iaH0HucQ&feature=youtu.be

so... why is this gone?.. i wanna see...

 

[Samus-T]

so... why is this gone?.. i wanna see...

There was an issue with the video. Uploading it again now

 

[Gimpel]

I didn't see it either ;_;
what was it ?
like could you describe it ?

 

[Cia]

So.. It just hit me that I've won 100% of the Project M tournaments I've entered :D (that only being pound 5 and ****** last weekend)

I really like what's been done with R.O.B

 

[FRENUM]

Samus-t here! Reposting the super aerial glide toss video

I will be using this account from now on, considering this user name is my actual gamer tag and not samus-t.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivq9wqz0Cu8&feature=g-upl

Enjoy!

 

[Archangel]

Holy ****!!! O_o!!!

 

[hotdogturtle]

I was hoping that you were gonna hit the bomb that you threw to the left.

 

[FRENUM]

I was hoping that you were gonna hit the bomb that you threw to the left.

If I had hit the first bomb with the second I wouldn't have been able to glide zair, to ledge cancel, etc. etc.

 

[Gimpel]

haha HDT, that would be sexy as hell
why don't you keep your samus-t account we could call this t-tossing or something like that :<
this looks amazing though, can't wait to see a how to video :D

Can you explain how this works ?
you got hit by the bomb every time before doing the SAGT so I assume it's zair-canceled air dodge out of ... getting hit ?

/e okay this definitely helps, thanks a lot :D

 

[JCaesar]

http://www.twitch.tv/jcaesar We're back with Nintendude, and Vist is on his way.

So.. It just hit me that I've won 100% of the Project M tournaments I've entered :D (that only being pound 5 and ****** last weekend)

I really like what's been done with R.O.B

You're welcome

 

[FRENUM]

haha HDT, that would be sexy as hell
why don't you keep your samus-t account we could call this t-tossing or something like that :<
this looks amazing though, can't wait to see a how to video :D

Can you explain how this works ?
you got hit by the bomb every time before t-tossing () so I assume it's zair-canceled air dodge out of ... getting hit ?

I made my samus-t account waaay back in 06, and that wasn't even my gamer tag. I just used samus in Melee at the time ha. And my Name is Tom. So samus-t sounded good at the time lol. But I'd rather just go by my current and official gamer tag. If I'm gonna be discovering game changing techniques I want people to recognize who actually came up with them FRENUM. So no T-anything! But back to the subject...

Basically If you get hit by any attack with sufficient hit stun while holding an item (or while using a character with a tether grab) you can struggle out, air dodge forward or back, and throw (AGT) all before going into tumble fall. Doing this at the right moment transfers your momentum from the move you were hit with, into the glide toss/zair and your character flies across the stage

It works best when holding an item just because you wont go into special fall right after throwing the item. Unlike doing it with zair. Which is still useful when hit at a high trajectory. And any character can do it! Some just go farther than others. Toon Link being one that goes exceptionally far.

Hope this helps. More videos coming very soon!

 

[`dazrin]

T-Bombing will still keep it's name. Otherwise, we'd have to call it F-Bombing, and that isn't gonna fly.

LOL

But cool discovery, frenum! Can this be applied in an actual match? I've already learned and applied all the tricks that you've shown thus far, (agt in all directions, fullhopdoublearrows, tbombing etc etc) which has been extremely helpful to my gameplay, but is SAGT practical in a real match?

 

[DrinkingFood]

We should definitely call it F-bombing.
Or just outright say "****ing" because that's the impression newbies will get.

 

[SpiderMad]

Why'd you choose the name Frenum.

 

[FRENUM]

But cool discovery, frenum! Can this be applied in an actual match? I've already learned and applied all the tricks that you've shown thus far, (agt in all directions, fullhopdoublearrows, tbombing etc etc) which has been extremely helpful to my gameplay, but is SAGT practical in a real match?

I kinda like F-bombing lol

SAGT is pretty much the best means of recovery at this point IMO. Here's an example; DK back throws you off of the map at a high % while you're holding a bomb. Right before you go into tumble fall, SAGT and it gives you the same distance as shown in the video. I have literally been at the edge of the blast box, SAGT'd and landed right on the stage. It all depends on how high you are before the SAGT. If you do it correctly you don't even need to jump, up b or glide toss. not saying it's the best option for every situation, but it is ABSOLUTELY useful in gameplay. Someone can even hit you at a low percentage (IE fox up smashes you at 40) and you can use it just to get away from them very quickly. It ***** dude

The best part about doing it with toon link is that you can SAGT, pull out another bomb, regular AGT, and up b into another SAGT XD it's kinda ridiculous

 

[`dazrin]

Sounds neat. I'll have to try and learn it asap! I was actually planning on making a TL advanced techs vid, and already have the footage, but if you have one coming I won't bother since you probably have more stuff since you're the one pioneering all these techs haha

I need to know the input though. So you just mash out of tumble, and AGT?

 

[FRENUM]

So you just mash out of tumble, and AGT?

Yes. But try to keep the mashing to a minimum. Because the longer you mash (wiggle the analog stick) the smaller the window you'll have to SAGT. think of it like samus' super wavedash in melee, only not as difficult to time.

It might also be important to note that this DOES NOT work when SAGTing up and down. Only forward and backwards. Not that you'd need it

 

[DrinkingFood]

@daze, instead of using the SAGT, you could just abuse the failed momentum mechanic and cancel the airdodge with a zair after doing an AGT bomb jump, giving you both a bit or height and a lot of horizontal distance.
OR if you go off to the top corners, you would have time to pull of a SAGT that might get you to the middle of the stage.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

We should definitely call it F-bombing.
Or just outright say "****ing" because that's the impression newbies will get.

I like F-Bombing as well. It's suitably cryptic and double entendre-esque to be good video game jargon.

 

[FRENUM]

I like F-Bombing as well. It's suitably cryptic and double entendre-esque to be good video game jargon.

F-bomb it is

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

In addition, we can call SAGT Frenum Super Aerial Glide Toss, which would make it ***ging, which has a nice ring to it though may be too profane for some tastes.