Project M Social Thread

[TeSik]

Wouldn't it be possible to map walljumping to one of the buttons you jump with? Like, having X for regular jump and Y for walljumps (and regular jumps also).
Or is it that you only can have _one_ jump which applies to all jump buttons?

 

[GP&B]

I think he removed wall jump being possible on the jump button period. However, I'm sure that would be a welcome option if it could be worked on the same way footstooling on an unused button works.

 

[Dark Sonic]

If previous action = thrown, hitboxes out during hitstun. Would that suffice?

I'm a little confused here. This looks to me like it would take hitboxes off during tumble only when a character is thrown.

What I want is hitboxes off during tumble EXCEPT when a character is thrown. So it'd be more like.

If previous action=/=thrown, hitboxes out during hitstun.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the meaning of "hitboxes out"

 

[shanus]

I'm a little confused here. This looks to me like it would take hitboxes off during tumble only when a character is thrown.

What I want is hitboxes off during tumble EXCEPT when a character is thrown.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting the meaning of "hitboxes out"

Basically, here is how it currently works.


If your character enters hitstun 45 (that is, full hitstun, there are 3 levels of hitstun).

Then you have the following commands:
DmgFlyIndirectNoReactionCommonOffset
Asynch Timer = 3
DamageFlyIndirectionCommon

These basically store the characters body as a hitbox and alters it after 3 frames.



The code I would write would do the following:
If Previous Action = Thrown
DmgFlyIndirectNoReactionCommonOffset
Asynch Timer = 3
DamageFlyIndirectionCommon
End If

which basically just makes it only put out the body hitboxes when thrown. Make sense?

 

[GP&B]

So, in really simple terms, dead weight only occurs on a throw?

That should help a ton.

 

[shanus]

So, in really simple terms, dead weight only occurs on a throw?

That should help a ton.

Yep, its easy to code, I'll make it in about 10 minutes.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Two words.

Thank god.

I knew there was something inherently more infuriating about playing Brawl (and any of its hack's) doubles than Melee doubles.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Cool stuff Shanus.

How long did it take you to learn this kind of stuff anyway?

 

[shanus]

Cool stuff Shanus.

How long did it take you to learn this kind of stuff anyway?

It's all about getting versed in the method. Writing injections is easy once you get the feel of the flow of them. It's all very logical and actually not that hard. Building up the knowledge of understanding / figuring fighter.pac takes a bit more time.


Also, I'm a bit lazy, can someone test this out? Let's hope this works.

Body Collisions Only Apply When Thrown [Shanus]
4A000000 90000000
1619A650 00000058
00000006 00000007
00000005 00004E23
00000000 00000002
00000001 003C6CC0
00000002 9019A678
000A0400 9019A650
00070100 80fb3f24
00020100 80fb3f2c
00070100 80fb3f34
000F0000 00000000
00080000 00000000
06fb3f64 00000018
00070100 9019A670
00020000 00000000
00020000 00000000

 

[Strong Badam]

You did say "said ability never existed"; What would be the point in saying that if it didn't relate to my post? Shouldn't I have said: "L-cancelable zairs were in Melee!" (Which I didn't) in order for this kind of reply to make any sense?

The fact that the ability existed in neither Brawl nor Melee is support for not including it in Project M (the M standing for Melee, as you are very well aware). I never said that the ability was 100% not going to be included - it hasn't been discussed at all yet - but I'm going to say that the majority of the people in the PMBR probably won't be for the idea, as a lot of our influence is directly from Melee.

6 aerial attacks? Oh my goodness... the world may come to an end. Also, if you read correctly I said it should have melee landing lag but you can L-cancel it. I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not but link's melee zair landing lag is pretty bad. 30 frames I believe. (To put this in perspective Ganon's melee dair has 35 frames landing lag) So endless you can consistently L-cancel not every kid on the block can make a useful attack out of the zair anyway.

Consistent l-canceling is one of the most basic technical demands present in Melee. It's pretty much a given that all attacks will be L-canceled, as we're thinking about mid-high level play.

Plus, Shell, a P:M developer, considered doing something like this before I even suggested the idea, (You would know this if you read any of the other posts after mine) but he said it was too difficult the program... so that little "this IS Project M, not project B" thing you capped at the end holds no viability.

Thank you for letting me know that SHeLL is a P:M developer. I definitely didn't know... <_<
In case you hadn't noticed, every member of the PMBR has his own opinion; each opinion contributes to decisions on things such as these. My standpoint on most issues are conservative in keeping all aspects of Melee and the least of Brawl as possible, which is why I stated such.

Why are you acting so high and mighty here? Why are you speaking for P:M?
Lawl.

Now, if any of the P:M developers felt I was making these so called "demands" I will gladly apologize, so please, stop speaking for P:M, it was nice arguing with you. Goodbye.

Lawl........

You guys are geniuses; keep up the good work.

Thanks, bro! We definitely will.

I had total sleepy johns yesterday; got 3 hrs of sleep the night before. My response was blunt, which is what I usually do, but a bit less elegant than it should have been. My apologies.

Strong_Bad was also being a ****.

Apology not necessary.

True story, it's what I'm good at.

Mmmk now to test moar Shanus codez.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Oh, and body collisions should appear sooner off of throws. As of now they appear on frame 7. I think in melee they appeared frame 1.

edit: figured it out. Apparently they only have collision bubbles from normal attacks when they go into that horizontal spiral tumble animation. Can you remove that?

Throw body collisions work fine (excpet for not coming out fast enough)

 

[shanus]

Okay, the code works, but there's a minor problem.

The body collisions do appear on throws, but not immediately like they should. It looks like the body collision hitbox doesn't come out until frame 7.

Doubt that has anything to do with the code specifically.

On what frame does it come out in melee? It should be coming out on frame 1 or 3 of hitstun with this code unless "Thrown" calls some subaction and I don't know that. I could add the hitbox into the Thrown command as well, but I thought it progresses to hitstun immediately?


Edit: could you hop on the irc?

 

[Strong Badam]

the DI input time might be ****ing with it, as throws don't have hitlag.

 

[Ulevo]

Just curious, have you guys done anything with controller port priority? If not, do you have any plans?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

There's no such thing as a character specific hitstun constant in Melee. I'm not convinced there actually is one in Brawl either.

I thought Marth had 10 frames less hitstun than any other character.

 

[I R MarF]

@I R Marf, you really should preview your posts a little more before sending them. I find it hard to believe that you would be able to send that if you didn't feel you were entitled to an explanation (which you are not).

In my defense I didn't know Strong Bad was part of the P:M team and thought he was a regular poster shooting down a suggestion that wasn't directed to him, but after reading the OP I realize I made a mistake.



And sorry Strong Bad, I thought you were just some know- it- all non P:M member and I understand why you said the things you said, so no analysis and retaliation post was necessary. (Though I am a bit late top stop you anyway, lol)

 

[Strong Badam]

It's all good.

Just curious, have you guys done anything with controller port priority? If not, do you have any plans?

Hopefully.... just yet another one of those SAKURAIIII parts of Barwl to deal with.

 

[ClinkStryphart]

I know there was a link discussion awhile back a few pages I have been reading the discussions and watched some streams. While I do admit Links Dtilt is cool and all in melee i dunno I sort of like his Vbrawl mechanic or due to it actually gives him the option to spike someone sorta like how Ike and pit can with their dtilts. I think however it would be cool if you could implement both have the melee for on stage and then the ledge be a spike but idk if that would be possible.

 

[kaizo13]

i love how Shanus just ignores all the arguments in this thread and keeps working on codes xDD

that's one good leader right there ^^;


and who is this "coder " working on landing detection? well i know who he WILL be when he finishes it..... f***en God

 

[humble]

It's not my argument, but I will say this:

It isn't my place, but I thought this merited a response. While you provide several good points, I disagree with you on a few, and the tone does seem rather negative.

The attitudes that come with some of the people who are flamboyantly following this game are atrocious. Having to put up with people who argue with developers and then demand answers as to why their suggestions aren't going to be used is appauling. Feedback is suppose to gauge reactions of the fan base; it is not a place to demand a random idea of yours to be put into the game.

Adv. flamboyantly - in a fancy colorful manner; "he dresses rather flamboyantly"
(from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/flamboyantly)

I'm sure in your mind this sentence made perfect sense, and in the context I understood your meaning, but "the people who are flamboyantly following this game" does not work very well as a sentence. Perhaps the people who are obsessively following this game? Irregardless, it was a bizarre word choice.
----
Moving on past the vocabulary, this seems a bit nonsensical. You dislike the attitudes of the people who are obsessively following your game, because they argue about design decisions and then ask why their suggestions aren't used?

I personally like Strong_Bad's response, and I encourage more responses like that to people who truly don't understand. The developers got together and decided to create this fabulous game: a true sequel to Melee. It's a great concept, and the raw gameplay so far has been one of the funnest versions of smash I have ever played. The amount of time they have put in just to get it this far is mind boggling considering most of them have jobs, are in school or working to get through school. This is a hobby not a job.

They were gracious enough to start allowing live streams so the public could see the game as it was being developed. It had been kept behind closed doors for this long because the fan base is very strong, very opinionated, and Melee presents an existing model to build the game around. They very easily could become offended by how the fans are treating them and pull all the live streams or pull the replays they have shared. Just like that, the public could be left in the dark because of a few idiots who think they are developers too just because they watched a live stream.

Now, Dark Sonic, do you want to retake your stance? People need to stop getting butthurt all the time when people give short or blunt responses. They also need to stop demanding reasons and explanations. The team has usually been more than willing to hear out people's stances, ideas, and comment on them accordingly, but they don't have to do it.

-----

Sorry for the rant. Back to your Project M discussion.

Allow me to explain it from my point of view- You have created, a topic devoted entirely to your game, detailing what it is all about, encouraging people to follow it, openly discuss changes, ask for suggestions, and then when they give them to you, you respond in an extremely blunt manner. We have no idea why you refused the suggestion, because you've been playing it close to the chest and we don't know your reasons, or if you have any. We'd like to know, so we may ask, and I hardly think that entitles anyone to become upset.

Allow me to apply a metaphor; you are a rising game company at the upcoming E3 game show. You set up a booth for your game, you post teaser images all over it, and then when people ask about your game you flip **** and scream at them- "I HAVE A RIGHT NOT TO TELL YOU ANY F*** I WANT! I'M THE DEVELOPER, I DON'T NEED TO GIVE YOU ANYTHING!"
...Well, yeah, but then why the hell did you set up the booth, the teaser images, etc. etc.? If, as I'm assuming, its so that we can learn about the game, then I hardly think you have good reason to be upset when people ask questions. It seems counter intuitive to the idea to get upset when people ask questions, when people inquire about the game, or when people suggest things. People make suggestions because they want to improve the game, because they think their ideas have merit and wish to have them included; when they get told no to their ideas, isn't it at least courteous to tell them why? You don't have to, but it would be nice, to explain why their idea wouldn't work, otherwise they don't know, when you could easily just tell them your reasoning.

I know you have every right to dislike people who irritate you. But you are developing a game for others, and when they want to help be a part of that game creation process and suggest ideas or ask questions, try not to become too upset. People are here to play learn about the game, not to irritate or offend you, so please respect that.

 

[shanus]

It isn't my place, but I thought this merited a response. While you provide several good points, I disagree with you on a few, and the tone does seem rather negative.


Adv. flamboyantly - in a fancy colorful manner; "he dresses rather flamboyantly"
(from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/flamboyantly)

I'm sure in your mind this sentence made perfect sense, and in the context I understood your meaning, but "the people who are flamboyantly following this game" does not work very well as a sentence. Perhaps the people who are obsessively following this game? Irregardless, it was a bizarre word choice.
----
Moving on past the vocabulary, this seems a bit nonsensical. You dislike the attitudes of the people who are obsessively following your game, because they argue about design decisions and then ask why their suggestions aren't used?




Allow me to explain it from my point of view- You have created, a topic devoted entirely to your game, detailing what it is all about, encouraging people to follow it, openly discuss changes, ask for suggestions, and then when they give them to you, you respond in an extremely blunt manner. We have no idea why you refused the suggestion, because you've been playing it close to the chest and we don't know your reasons, or if you have any. We'd like to know, so we may ask, and I hardly think that entitles anyone to become upset.

Allow me to apply a metaphor; you are a rising game company at the upcoming E3 game show. You set up a booth for your game, you post teaser images all over it, and then when people ask about your game you flip **** and scream at them- "I HAVE A RIGHT NOT TO TELL YOU ANY F*** I WANT! I'M THE DEVELOPER, I DON'T NEED TO GIVE YOU ANYTHING!"
...Well, yeah, but then why the hell did you set up the booth, the teaser images, etc. etc.? If, as I'm assuming, its so that we can learn about the game, then I hardly think you have good reason to be upset when people ask questions. It seems counter intuitive to the idea to get upset when people ask questions, when people inquire about the game, or when people suggest things. People make suggestions because they want to improve the game, because they think their ideas have merit and wish to have them included; when they get told no to their ideas, isn't it at least courteous to tell them why? You don't have to, but it would be nice, to explain why their idea wouldn't work, otherwise they don't know, when you could easily just tell them your reasoning.

I know you have every right to dislike people who irritate you. But you are developing a game for others, and when they want to help be a part of that game creation process and suggest ideas or ask questions, try not to become too upset. People are here to play learn about the game, not to irritate or offend you, so please respect that.

I think his point is more along the lines of the fact that if people don't love your idea, you shouldn't be offended by it, especially if it deviates from the models utilized for development.


Anyways, no more arguments please.

 

[Rikana]

good news for all:

It seems I finally got cc'ing and jab resets working properly. Additionally, I disabled the ability to walljump with pressing the jump button so that no more accidental walljumps.

Good stuffs

How can people be so focused on arguing after hearing this? Yeayuhzzz.

Edit: what about pressing up on the control stick? Does that still make them wall jump?

 

[Sora-kun]

Just curious, have you guys done anything with controller port priority? If not, do you have any plans?

what exactly is the port proirity?

 

[shanus]

How can people be so focused on arguing after hearing this? Yeayuhzzz.

Edit: what about pressing up on the control stick? Does that still make them wall jump?

Currently pressing up still allows for walljump, but I can easily remove it. I was a little lazy.

Just to share some updates since everyone likes progress, I would like everyone to know the following:

(This is from revision 463 of our svn update):
Moved incubator GCT to main, the following changes are now in the main build:

-Crouch Canceling has been implemented into the game. There are likely bugs, so please report them
-Jab resets have been reprogrammed to use syntax similar to crouch cancels, let me know how it works.
-Special fall landlag now works correctly in all situations, no more super speedy endlags on recoveries
-Zair stall has been removed
-Walljumping no longer can be performed via pressing the jump button (up joystick still works)
-Spawn bug due to Slide off edges during wait1 has been fixed
-Body collisions during hitstun should apply *mostly* only when thrown. Somehow some normal collisions are getting through, but its progress nonetheless
-Consolidated the guilty gear-esque graphic effect into the main l-cancel code to save space

 

[Rikana]

What is zair stall?

 

[Ulevo]

what exactly is the port proirity?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169109

 

[shanus]

What is zair stall?

I made a code where Zair would stall in the air and kill momentum for 15 frames analogous to melee, but it resulted in the inability to grapple anything unless very close to the edge.

 

[Strong Badam]

Allow me to explain it from my point of view- You have created, a topic devoted entirely to your game, detailing what it is all about, encouraging people to follow it, openly discuss changes, ask for suggestions, and then when they give them to you, you respond in an extremely blunt manner. We have no idea why you refused the suggestion, because you've been playing it close to the chest and we don't know your reasons, or if you have any. We'd like to know, so we may ask, and I hardly think that entitles anyone to become upset.

Allow me to apply a metaphor; you are a rising game company at the upcoming E3 game show. You set up a booth for your game, you post teaser images all over it, and then when people ask about your game you flip **** and scream at them- "I HAVE A RIGHT NOT TO TELL YOU ANY F*** I WANT! I'M THE DEVELOPER, I DON'T NEED TO GIVE YOU ANYTHING!"
...Well, yeah, but then why the hell did you set up the booth, the teaser images, etc. etc.? If, as I'm assuming, its so that we can learn about the game, then I hardly think you have good reason to be upset when people ask questions. It seems counter intuitive to the idea to get upset when people ask questions, when people inquire about the game, or when people suggest things. People make suggestions because they want to improve the game, because they think their ideas have merit and wish to have them included; when they get told no to their ideas, isn't it at least courteous to tell them why? You don't have to, but it would be nice, to explain why their idea wouldn't work, otherwise they don't know, when you could easily just tell them your reasoning.

I know you have every right to dislike people who irritate you. But you are developing a game for others, and when they want to help be a part of that game creation process and suggest ideas or ask questions, try not to become too upset. People are here to play learn about the game, not to irritate or offend you, so please respect that.

First off, this thread is not even close to primarily being for suggestions. As we are building this game around Melee, what kind of suggestions do we really need? Pretty much everything we need is between Melee, our minds, and Brawl.
Secondly, your metaphor is not applicable. Not only is your description of the E3 dude grossly exaggerated and not even close to my response at all, but we are not going to market this game and make money. An E3 booth'd bro would be very interested in sharing information (within reason) and it is in his best interest to do so, as he would be speaking to the people who are going to buy his game.
I told him why I personally didn't like his idea. SHeLL responded with his view on the matter, which also explained that it would be too difficult to program. I see no problem here.
We can only take so much of random noobs coming in here and being like "hay is metaknight gonna be borken? and r u guys gettin rid of trippin?". It's basically a chore to come in here try to respond to everyone's post as you described.

also

bad news bears about port prioirity

[04:01pm] <Strong_Bad> alrighty shanus. do you think you could fix the lulz of port priority?
[04:06pm] <shanus_> 10nos

 

[Sora-kun]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169109

Gah
that's why when i'm grabbed and a snake nade explodes i always get hit away =_=

thnx ._.

 

[Rikana]

Port priority isn't something too difficult to deal with even without codes. The only things that have port priority are the Bowser's and Ganon's sideB (am I missing anything?). But even if they lose in the game with it, the tournaments can just simply imply a rule saying if the player ends a match with sideB and it was successful, the person who performed it wins the match instead.

Edit: nvm I just read about the other stuff like Snake's nades and stuff. Still, nothing too big though.

 

[Sora-kun]

i missed if you guys were stabbing grab armor or not?
(getting rid of it because it's ********)

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Port priority isn't something too difficult to deal with even without codes. The only things that have port priority are the Bowser's and Ganon's sideB (am I missing anything?). But even if they lose in the game with it, the tournaments can just simply imply a rule saying if the player ends a match with sideB and it was successful, the person who performed it wins the match instead.

Edit: nvm I just read about the other stuff like Snake's nades and stuff. Still, nothing too big though.

Higher numbered port has invincibility to attacks that hit both characters during a grab, and the lower numbered port has grab priority (Meaning if two grabs connect at the same frame, player 1 would get the grab over players 2, 3, and 4.

 

[L/A/W]

Port priority isn't something too difficult to deal with even without codes. The only things that have port priority are the Bowser's and Ganon's sideB (am I missing anything?). But even if they lose in the game with it, the tournaments can just simply imply a rule saying if the player ends a match with sideB and it was successful, the person who performed it wins the match instead.

Edit: nvm I just read about the other stuff like Snake's nades and stuff. Still, nothing too big though.

port prority on nades is gives snake a pretty big advantage
anyways port priority should be removed if possible as it's a poor addition to the game

 

[Strong Badam]

Rikana: a rule like that is already in effect.
additionally, a rule about port selection is already in effect. Rock-Paper-Scissors lets go.

 

[I R MarF]

Port priority isn't something too difficult to deal with even without codes. The only things that have port priority are the Bowser's and Ganon's sideB (am I missing anything?). But even if they lose in the game with it, the tournaments can just simply imply a rule saying if the player ends a match with sideB and it was successful, the person who performed it wins the match instead.

Edit: nvm I just read about the other stuff like Snake's nades and stuff. Still, nothing too big though.

I think grabs are affected by port priority too but I'm not sure... but the kamikaze thing was the biggest issue anyway, and if both ganon and bowser get their melee side b's back then that issue is fixed without fixing port priority.

EDIT: then again, there is DK, Kirby, and DDD who can suicide KO.

 

[shanus]

port prority on nades is gives snake a pretty big advantage
anyways port priority should be removed if possible as it's a poor addition to the game

its not possible

 

[L/A/W]

^^
that's ok then at least you tried
if you can't do it it probably can't be done

 

[JCaesar]

Port priority isn't something too difficult to deal with even without codes. The only things that have port priority are the Bowser's and Ganon's sideB (am I missing anything?). But even if they lose in the game with it, the tournaments can just simply imply a rule saying if the player ends a match with sideB and it was successful, the person who performed it wins the match instead.

Edit: nvm I just read about the other stuff like Snake's nades and stuff. Still, nothing too big though.

It makes a pretty big difference in teams and any match with a Snake. Snake dittos in vBrawl are 60:40 because of port priority.

But...

its not possible

...so practice your rock/paper/scissors!

 

[Plum]

...so practice your rock/paper/scissors!

If a Snake isn't player 4 it just means they suck at rock/paper/scissors

 

[kaizo13]

SHeLL, how's the Snake rebuild coming along?

what did you end up doing to nades?