Project M Social Thread

[ds22]

Meh, you can't cater to everyones tastes, though Lucaryu is way better then Swords Dance Lucario ever was.
Just saying.

 

[Shadic]

Brawl player dislikes complete revamp of his character and playstyle. It's not particularly surprising.

The potency of Ike's recovery is heavily dependent on stage - Perhaps moreso than any other character in the game. On a stage like Yoshi's Story, his recovery is frightening. On a stage like Battlefield, not so much.

That said, Lucario and Ike are both amazingly fun characters.

 

[MonkUnit]

Red Ryu, try to come out to the next Madison tournament which I believe is April 7 or 14. If ST and I go, we'll bring PM so you can try out Lucario if Demo 2 hasn't been released by that time.

 

[Rikana]

^
if it isnt released by that time. Demo 2 coming out in winter 2012.

 

[9Kplus1]

Meh, you can't cater to everyones tastes, though Lucaryu is way better then Swords Dance Lucario ever was.
Just saying.

post-Platinum, yeah

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Red Ryu, try to come out to the next Madison tournament which I believe is April 7 or 14. If ST and I go, we'll bring PM so you can try out Lucario if Demo 2 hasn't been released by that time.

14th.

Vengeance is on the 7th.

Brawl player dislikes complete revamp of his character and playstyle. It's not particularly surprising.

The new system imo, doesn't compensate him well, the system could have easily been the aura one without any problems, but they want to define it like that because they think the system is a scrub on that rewards losing players which is horrifically wrong. I only see 1 or 2 specials worth using a charge on, a lot of the charges really don't mean much even more so when his brawl self had better versions as is of these charge moves. The UpB trick he could do in brawl if he was at stage height when he ended it and immediately act out of it. Aura Sphere even without Aura could cover the options the new one can. Him walking through it is nifty, but I can't see competent players actually letting him trap them like that unless they are recovering. Side B and Double Team are fine, more so Side B, but the new system doesn't look like it really is a goo replacement, even ignoring my liking of Brawl

 

[standardtoaster]

Oh, it's on the 14th? We won't be able to go then. We're taking the ACT that day.

 

[jalued]

14th.

Vengeance is on the 7th.



The new system imo, doesn't compensate him well, the system could have easily been the aura one without any problems, but they want to define it like that because they think the system is a scrub on that rewards losing players which is horrifically wrong. I only see 1 or 2 specials worth using a charge on, a lot of the charges really don't mean much even more so when his brawl self had better versions as is of these charge moves. The UpB trick he could do in brawl if he was at stage height when he ended it and immediately act out of it. Aura Sphere even without Aura could cover the options the new one can. Him walking through it is nifty, but I can't see competent players actually letting him trap them like that unless they are recovering. Side B and Double Team are fine, more so Side B, but the new system doesn't look like it really is a goo replacement, even ignoring my liking of Brawl

If i remember correctly, the original aura system was removed because Lucario had problems getting to a high enough percentage to kill due to the pace of the gameplay being faster and the edgeguarding more potent.

Time will tell if this was a good change, but i highly doubt that the backroom would release Lucario if they didnt feel that he worked well in the melee enviroment.

Its very difficult to understand how lucario feels from a blog and streams because his style is so unique, so maybe you should play with a tester in your area.

If you still don't like him when demo 2 is released, then there should be other characters that you could play instead that fit your prefered playstyle. I hope you do like him , but if not, it's not the end of the world

 

[iLink]

If there's 1 thing I HATED from Lucario in brawl, it was his aura mechanics. The fact that I have to be at (or nearly at) kill percent to be a good character is frustrating. And if I'm actually doing well, I'm being punished for it by having myself weakened.

Red Ryu I don't think you understand how his upb cancel functions. No way in hell you can do anything remotely similar in brawl.

Aurasphere might be able to do some of the same things, but this Spirit Bomb charge doesn't require him to already previously charge one so it's helpful in those situations when you just need to throw it out. It's also a lot more potent for trapping someone if you considering you can't just jump and airdodge freely like in brawl. You have to consider these changes with how melee works, take for example how more often characters are knocked down due to hitstun from attacks and not being able to freely airdodge and recover.

Honestly I'm kind of surprised how much Lucario is getting. He seems to have a lot going for him.

 

[ds22]

Thing is, most people will either dislike or even hate Lucaryu until they actually get to play him (regularly/intensively).

 

[shanus]

If you honestly think you dont have uses for any of these supers then you don't know how good they are.

 

[Ecks]

What Jalued said. Lucario used to die way before he had enough aura power, only to re-spawn back at zero and get ***** all over again.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What Jalued said. Lucario used to die way before he had enough aura power, only to re-spawn back at zero and get ***** all over again.

Which is why I miss Mewtwo a lot :/ I wish Lucario would just play like he had about 80-100%.

 

[Vigilante]

In game he really feels like he fits in a Melee environment. As for the Brawl Aura system, it doesn't take into account that in Melee, unlike Brawl, characters can often be comboes to death in Melee. Very often, the old aura system would pretty much only serve to leave Lucario weak... never having a chance to become stronger. He was a cluster**** of bad design.

The Lucario Aura system in brawl also encourages a more campy play and his new system, whether anyone likes it or not does reward skill to a much greater extent.

Also, using special charges is useful for all four. I really don,t get why you wouldn't think of Aura Bomb as good. You also need to keep in mind that his forward / back throws have low angles and can throw directly into it. You can also grab and hold someone so he gets stuck. You may also use it as an edgeguard, hitting people on the ledge / forcing them to dodge it so you can intercept them (limiting their options). It can also be used as a pressure tactic as a whole, a stage control manoeuvre and to plow through weaker projectiles.

Up B cancel can be used to approach, to counter-edgeguard (You can cancel to then grab in the air and kill) as well as recover farther using airdodge as well as chasing poeple around. Use it to attack too.

I wouldn't say that Lucario is top tier material right now due to his bad approach options but this demo will help us see if he needs final tweaks. However, I can already state that he is much more viable than he was in Brawl. and that he's at a point where if anything is wrong with him, it can be dealt with without a rehaul. BTW, the first time you will fight a Lucario that is competent, you will get schooled. But then you'll learn the matchup and you won,t fall for his tricks as easily. He's very predictable without his charges.

I personally think that of all characters we made, he is our most original and complex one. Whenever I showcase him, most poeple love him, and while some aren't too sure what to think of him at first, I've never had someone play more than three matches against me and not say that Lucario is legit. And trust me, I,ve met lots of Melee and Brawl players.

 

[drsusredfish]

The UpB trick he could do in brawl if he was at stage height when he ended it and immediately act out of it.

he still has that.

I can't wait to post vids of lucario so i can show my theory smash works

 

[Vigilante]

The badassness of Up-B.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJHF...DvjVQa1PpcFNj_rX_JZ1na69YTNYTeFWT0u_a9axUQRA=

 

[drsusredfish]

if you start up-b on the ground then cancel it the air can you use your second jump?

 

[MonkUnit]

The badassness of Up-B.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJHF...DvjVQa1PpcFNj_rX_JZ1na69YTNYTeFWT0u_a9axUQRA=

Looks cool, but that Ike could've jumped out of tumble to avoid it.

 

[Vigilante]

Looks cool, but that Ike could've jumped out of tumble to avoid it.

Yeah, I was just messing around.

And yeah, if you cancel it from the ground, you can use the second jump. So it's possible for example to combo someone tot he top of the screen using Up B.

 

[ManEg]

Been a long time guys,

Does aerial quick draw work the same as grounded, except the jump cancel (manual, auto-cancel)?

Has Magus announced more breakthroughs in the general changes department?

 

[Juushichi]

The Lucario Aura system in brawl also encourages a more campy play and his new system, whether anyone likes it or not does reward (the) skill(s) (this project aims to promote) to a much greater extent.

Fixed for you Vigi. <3

 

[Vigilante]

Fixed for you Vigi. <3

We so need to get married <3

 

[drsusredfish]

i waa see some old videos of sword dance lucario.

 

[Vigilante]

I've actually never seen it before, lol.

 

[Juushichi]

We so need to get married <3

I wonder who would serve what role in that marriage.

[semi-serious note though:] As much as I understand (and support!) why Lucario was changed from his Brawl iteration to this one, it's something that makes me tilt my head in confusion when it's implied that playing runaway/defensive/zoning/whatever "takes less skill" than more offense/active zoning/etc, etc. They're stylistic differences that take different skillsets (and obviously different inherent abilities based on how good you are at them) and have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Brawl is a defensive game (primarily) yes, we all get that. It also has plenty of questionable design choices, but it takes skill to play and to be legitimately good at. Even if you do pick MK.

 

[jalued]

Looks cool, but that Ike could've jumped out of tumble to avoid it.

yes but its a risky move by principle,and looks flashy. There are generally better options than flashy tactics, but tell that to falcon mains

 

[Juushichi]

yes but its a risky move by principle,and looks flashy. There are generally better options than flashy tactics, but tell that to falcon mains

I don't know about you, but nairs/fairs and automobiles are pretty safe seeming. Plus he has jabs and his natural mobility to make things that normally wouldn't be safe... safe.

No one really wants to get hit by Falcon. No one.

 

[Shadic]

Does aerial quick draw work the same as grounded, except the jump cancel (manual, auto-cancel)?

That it does.

 

[Vigilante]

One thing poeple need to know about me is that I often die trying to look cool despite better options beting readily availiable.

 

[9Kplus1]

I die while dash dancing in the blastzone

 

[drsusredfish]

so are returning demo one characters gona get an announcement? (mainly the ones who got major changes ie. sonic, zelda, lucas)

 

[9Kplus1]

I don't see any reason behind why Zelda wouldn't be in Demo 2. Zelda might be a ***** in P:M and irl, but she's definitely a solid character.

 

[Revven]

Been a long time guys,

Does aerial quick draw work the same as grounded, except the jump cancel (manual, auto-cancel)?

Has Magus announced more breakthroughs in the general changes department?

1) Yes
2) No

 

[UltiMario]

Honestly I play traditional fighters and have never head the term "magic series" before.

Is this like from some other fighter I don't play or is just not a popular term anymore? lol

 

[drsusredfish]

its Neko's fault <_<. He's the only one who said magic series.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Honestly I play traditional fighters and have never head the term "magic series" before.

Is this like from some other fighter I don't play or is just not a popular term anymore? lol

Anime fighters.

Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Marvel vs Capcom 3 (hey if it has an airdash <_<), *random doujin fighter123464* , ect.

Many fighter use the Light->Medium->Heavy->special chain rules, which are refereed to as a "magic series" (something that works with almost any character in the game).

ABCD, LMHS, whatever you want to call it, this is probably the first thing somebody picking a random character is gonna try out.

 

[UltiMario]

Never heard anyone use Magic series for LMHS j.MMHS for MvC3 lol

 

[Vigilante]

It's a term Neko used to explain it, and it's generally known arounf fighting game communities. I wanted to use On-hit cancel at first, but it's a poor way to define it. I noticed that not everyone knows this term so I went out of my way to explain it.

Also, we'r eonly announcing newcomers, but old veterans from Demo 1 will probably not be "announced again" but we might need to revisit the webpages and probably put them more up to date. Sonic, Snake and Lucas have especiaqlly changed a lot. The returnign veterans are probably just going the be listed again in the fina post near release.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

In game he really feels like he fits in a Melee environment. As for the Brawl Aura system, it doesn't take into account that in Melee, unlike Brawl, characters can often be comboes to death in Melee. Very often, the old aura system would pretty much only serve to leave Lucario weak... never having a chance to become stronger. He was a cluster**** of bad design.

The Lucario Aura system in brawl also encourages a more campy play and his new system, whether anyone likes it or not does reward skill to a much greater extent.

Also, using special charges is useful for all four. I really don,t get why you wouldn't think of Aura Bomb as good. You also need to keep in mind that his forward / back throws have low angles and can throw directly into it. You can also grab and hold someone so he gets stuck. You may also use it as an edgeguard, hitting people on the ledge / forcing them to dodge it so you can intercept them (limiting their options). It can also be used as a pressure tactic as a whole, a stage control manoeuvre and to plow through weaker projectiles.

Up B cancel can be used to approach, to counter-edgeguard (You can cancel to then grab in the air and kill) as well as recover farther using airdodge as well as chasing poeple around. Use it to attack too.

I wouldn't say that Lucario is top tier material right now due to his bad approach options but this demo will help us see if he needs final tweaks. However, I can already state that he is much more viable than he was in Brawl. and that he's at a point where if anything is wrong with him, it can be dealt with without a rehaul. BTW, the first time you will fight a Lucario that is competent, you will get schooled. But then you'll learn the matchup and you won,t fall for his tricks as easily. He's very predictable without his charges.

I personally think that of all characters we made, he is our most original and complex one. Whenever I showcase him, most poeple love him, and while some aren't too sure what to think of him at first, I've never had someone play more than three matches against me and not say that Lucario is legit. And trust me, I,ve met lots of Melee and Brawl players.

I can agree with some of this, I will firmly disagree he is better here than in Brawl, different meta-games, different tools, I don't believe Lucario is that good here when a lot of his moveset is answerable with the same things your trying to stop, camping him back.

He shoots Aura sphere for a set-up, just run away from him and move somewhere where he can't follow it up. Only on stages like FD is he going to be better with catching characters in a way where he can attempt to force it with a throw into it. I recognize he can use it to edge guard, If the mechanics of melee work here with the ledge and how some characters recover.

You need an even harder read than what you needed in Brawl to catch people with a SuperSphere. Making it even slower is just going to make it more limited in usage. Even if there are set-ups into it, nothing is really stopping character from playing keep away and safe until it goes away. It's stage control momentarily, and then you'll lose it until you have to build it up slowly again in which I can only see 2 charges max per stock, maybe 3, 4 if your lucky.

I can sort of understand the point of might not working as well in Melee, though being fair 0-deaths aren't that common if not rare even more so after watching APEX 2012, I was there. From an edgeguard sure, but I do think it is possible to scale it in a way it doesn't bone him over if that is a problem.

I guess it's just how I feel this project isn't moving in a direction I like with the way character are being made in some areas, nothing really I can do outside of showing my disinterest in that. But good to see how this will move.

@Link X: Every pro including Azen said Lucario was with Aura than without, he'd lose a lot of advantages and lose harder in some MUs without it.

I see him being changed, I don't see him holding his own very well in this kind of environment.

 

[UltiMario]

So I asked around some fighting channels I go to and was like "how do I not know of this term"

Apparently the usage of the term died around 09.

That explains a few things.