Project M Social Thread

[Supreme Dirt]

I hope there isn't confusion between weight and fall speed. It doesn't look like it, but a few posts do.

I try to explain it to people and they never get it :/

 

[Xebenkeck]

Indeed, weight doesn't solely indicate how long you live, Fall speed also has a lot to do with it.

Weight =/= survivability. Which is important to remember.

DDD doesn't weight the most in Brawl, But DDD weight combined with his fall speed makes him retartedly hard to kill.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007?ob=0#p/a/u/1/aEkQtsi6Zio

What the hell? Why is Sheik's dthrow animation so fast?
Sometimes I fear that brawl animations will really hurt this project when it comes to the public acceptance.

 

[jalued]

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007?ob=0#p/a/u/1/aEkQtsi6Zio

What the hell? Why is Sheik's dthrow animation so fast?
Sometimes I fear that brawl animations will really hurt this project when it comes to the public acceptance.

that is just something they were testing out, so that its harder to DI out of it. Nothing is final

 

[hotdogturtle]

Jigglypuff felt super off in the last demo... Felt like I was controlling Brawl Jigglypuff with Melee Rest. But of course that's the demo so it means nothing.

I still haven't gotten used to seeing Brawl Sheik's model playing like Melee Sheik. Most other characters have at least gotten some sort of Melee reskins, but Sheik has nothing. I just associate her with being weak because she was so nerfed in Brawl.

 

[Xebenkeck]

^^^
I'm sure getting pimp slapped at 90% will quickly change that thought.

 

[`dazrin]

dthrow->ftilt-> pimpslap

so unfair

 

[Ecks]

Most other characters have at least gotten some sort of Melee reskins, but Sheik has nothing.

???

*that's a link btw*

 

[Crooked Crow]

Smash 64's hitboxes are so weird.

 

[JCaesar]

Thunderhorse is here!

http://www.twitch.tv/jcaesar

 

[Xebenkeck]

So just a question for anyone who may know

What is the file size limit for Wario's MotionEtc.pac file?

I ask because I am currently editing the majority of Wario's animations in an attempt to unG&W him. That has always ticked me off, so im going to get rid of it lol. I have his jab, utilt, dtilt, 3 ftilt's, grabs and run animations all edited already.

I image file size wasnt an issue for you guys as ou got rid of the bike, which uses like 20 animations, getting rid of it must of freed up a lot of space.

 

[Kink-Link5]

MK suffers Game and Watch syndrome way worse than Wario.

 

[hotdogturtle]

MK suffers Game and Watch syndrome way worse than Wario.

No he doesn't. He moves in every frame. Wario literally freezes for several frames at a time, then instantaneously switches to another pose for several frames.

 

[Xebenkeck]

No he doesn't. He moves in every frame. Wario literally freezes for several frames at a time, then instantaneously switches to another pose for several frames.

He wont when im done with him

but HDT is right, when i edited some animations, like dtilt, literally all bones are frozen on the same numbers for somtimes up to 20 frames.

 

[I R MarF]

that is just something they were testing out, so that its harder to DI out of it. Nothing is final

Why, oh why would Shiek's dthrow need to be made "harder to DI"? Half of her attacks lead into her kill moves and being able to DI said attacks (including dthrow) is very important. Not to mention, I bet if you DI her dthrow at certain percents, you will just set yourself up for a perfectly spaced RAR bair.

Sheik should be left alone. She is an amazing character with one of the lowest tech-skill floors and perhaps the lowest tech-skill ceiling in the entire cast.

If any high tier needs a buff it should be Marth, specifically on his bair. Seriously, what a mediocre move. It has missing hitboxes, it comes out at frame 7 (the slowest of all his aerials), has almost double the land lag of nair, fair, and uair, and is kind of mediocre as a kill move.

I say make it hit frames 6-10 as opposed to frames 7-11 and adjust total frames to 38 instead of 39 so the endlag remains the same. Leave its land-lag, IASA, and autocancel frame data the same, but increase KB a noticeable amount. So its an effective kill move. Obviously not as strong as fsmash or up-b, but stronger than it is now and a useful option when Marth is having trouble killing his opponents at high percents.

 

[Strong Badam]

the hell? sheik takes a huge amount of tech skill & precision at high level play

 

[JCaesar]

That Sheik build had a completely different dthrow, designed to be a mixup with bthrow, hence the speed-up. Stop making assumptions on things you know nothing about

 

[Wavebuster]

That Sheik build had a completely different dthrow, designed to be a mixup with bthrow, hence the speed-up. Stop making assumptions on things you know nothing about

Also designed to not chain grab with proper DI like PAL dthrow.

 

[I R MarF]

That Sheik build had a completely different dthrow, designed to be a mixup with bthrow, hence the speed-up. Stop making assumptions on things you know nothing about

Considering my assumptions were based on this post:

that is just something they were testing out, so that its harder to DI out of it. Nothing is final

What I said wouldn't have been unreasonable. Get mad at jalued, not me.

And regardless, its still confusing to modify a top tier character.

the hell? sheik takes a huge amount of tech skill & precision at high level play

Please elaborate how Sheik takes more tech skill at high level play than any other character at the same level of play.

 

[Yeroc]

It's not that Sheik takes more, but more the fact that she's definitely not "easy" by any stretch of the imagination. No character is "easy" to play at high level.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

You forgot about MK.

 

[Wavebuster]

What I said wouldn't have been unreasonable. Get mad at jalued, not me.

And regardless, its still confusing to modify a top tier character.

Sheik is a special case as she has a one-move-wonder against a large portion of the cast. Leaving something like that in goes against a goal of the project, making a lot of characters simply unviable against Sheik. PAL playerbases has shown that the NTSC dthrow is not necessary for Sheik to dominate, so a test build of Sheik using a PAL-like dthrow, and a bthrow to mixup DI against dthrow to combo with so NTSC players don't feel completely without option when attempting grab combos. They are sped up to not be so easily DIable on sight.

 

[I R MarF]

It's not that Sheik takes more, but more the fact that she's definitely not "easy" by any stretch of the imagination. No character is "easy" to play at high level.

Well thats a given when you consider all the other factors that affect a character's usability at high level play. A character's options being a good example, for instance, Fox is harder to use than Sheik (technically speaking) but ultimately has more options (superior DD, shine, shffling) which would make it up for debate who is actually harder to play at a high level. If you put it in perspective, the tier list is actually a decent example of most difficult to play to least difficult when considering every factor.

However, I was originally referring to just tech-skill and I believe Sheik isn't particuarly hard to play in this regard. She certainly has a very low tech-skill floor (meaning it doesn't take much tech skill to play effectively with Sheik). But I also believe that she has one of lowest tech-skill ceilings (meaning her tech skill potential is significantly lower than most in the cast)

 

[Yeroc]

I don't know that I necessarily agree. She has a lower ceiling than some, for sure. But she does have a lot of neat tricks (needles come immediately to mind) that are fairly difficult to pull of consistently. Most of it's flashy and sometimes not necessary to play at that level, but it's there. She's certainly above Marth though, for example, on the tech skill ladder.

 

[I R MarF]

I don't know that I necessarily agree. She has a lower ceiling than some, for sure. But she does have a lot of neat tricks (needles come immediately to mind) that are fairly difficult to pull of consistently. Most of it's flashy and sometimes not necessary to play at that level, but it's there. She's certainly above Marth though, for example, on the tech skill ladder.

I'm not so sure about that. Being able to precisely utilize the properties of Marth's sword is a technical skill that already initially makes him harder to play than Shiek as a whole. I also wonder if its possible to do a SH fair>bair (creates turnaround)>ledge cancel>instant ledge grab with Marth. Would be some cool stuff to see in a TAS

 

[Kink-Link5]

Depends on whether you consider spacing to be a technical skill.

 

[I R MarF]

IMO, spacing your own moves is a technical skill, spacing your opponents moves is a mental skill.

 

[Yeroc]

Spacing is spacing. One character outranging another doesn't mean you have to be better at spacing with them. Probably the opposite I'd say, in fact.

 

[I R MarF]

Spacing is spacing. One character outranging another doesn't mean you have to be better at spacing with them. Probably the opposite I'd say, in fact.

It has nothing to do with range. I'm referring to the different properties in Marth's attacks between tipper hits, sour-spot hits, and body hits. Being able to utilize the correct hit with your attack makes Marth much harder to space with vs. a character who has consistent properties along their hitboxes.

 

[9Kplus1]

You forgot about MK.

MK is not easy to play at a high level, either <_>

 

[Archangel]

you should all go to dictionary.com and type in N I G G A R D L Y

Then click the speaker. you will all thank me for this later.

 

[Shadic]

MK is not easy to play at a high level, either <_>

Depends on if you're talking mentally or technically. Brawl is technically a much easier game, so it comes more down to spacing, patience, mental endurance, and resisting the urge to unplug the controller and head for a Melee station.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Every character requires a large amount of skill and precision at high level, thats why its called high level of play. Sheik is definitely easier at low and mid levels of skill though, and has a much simpler style of play then for example fox and falco.

 

[9Kplus1]

To be fair, MK requires more effort than the long lost son of Sheik and Puff to use.

The US just johns for M2K's johns too much.

Btw, Brawl stations smell like sweat and ***. I'd much rather not sit at them, anyway.

 

[Archangel]

his fanboys will pull him through.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Apparenty Gilette wants to sponsor Smash. We've been saved.

 

[jalued]

Apparenty Gilette wants to sponsor Smash. We've been saved.

where you hear this from?

 

[Shadic]

We need Old Spice sponsorship.

Isaiah Mustafa can waveswag IRL.

 

[Xebenkeck]

where you hear this from?

Since they recieved numerous complaints about BO at Brawl tourneys.

 

[jalued]

since they recieved numerous complaints about bo at brawl tourneys.

bo?........................