Project M Social Thread

[crazycrackers]

Agreed, in the most recent stream you could see that Peach and Zelda actually had good WDs. But like SheLL said, this still needs fine tuning. Although personally I'm alright with letting Zelda keep her WD because it at least gives her some much needed variety.

 

[kaizo13]

wait....about high% k.o SFXs, does that mean only Melee characters will have them? o-O

 

[camelot]

God, I think I'm already going to get a ton of satisfaction out of P:M merely from beating someone down at high %'s for uber lulzy yells.

Yep. The yells make it way more satisfying to land a strong hit on somebody. Everybody will love this, I guarantee it.

edit: kaizo, Brawl characters will have them. Jigglypuff, Samus, G&W, and Olimar are the only ones without those sound effects. That's OK for Samus and Olimar, but it's weird that Puff and G&W don't have them.

 

[Deleted member]

Have you guys thought about not making certain things non universal for difficulties with low tier characters?

Shield properties, ledge grab range, invincibility frames off ledge grab, ability to grab ledge backwards, etc

For example, a character that has an extremely hard time dealing with projectiles might get a shield that has a larger window for reflecting projectiles from a previous one frame to two frames. A char w/ poor OOS options may get a more durable shield with less ability to be shield poked to cope with shield pressure. Or a large character would get a larger ledge sweetspot to make up for his sheer size disadvantage when being edgeguarded.

 

[GP&B]

As long as everyone has a useful WD to work with, friction changes are fine then.

And G&W doesn't have that high-pitched beep scream? Nooo, I loved clobbering that 2D nuisance just for that yell. Ah well, the rest is going to be awesome.

Also on the Lucas vs. Sheik video, some post-hit yells and whooshing hasn't been removed? Although I do remember that not all characters have been covered but most have at least gotten their heavy hit yells set.

@drpepper: good point, actually. Might give the team something to discuss amongst us.

 

[Dan_X]

Agreed, in the most recent stream you could see that Peach and Zelda actually had good WDs. But like SheLL said, this still needs fine tuning. Although personally I'm alright with letting Zelda keep her WD because it at least gives her some much needed variety.

No character should have a TERRIBLE WD. That's one aspect of Melee that should go, in my opinion. It's a tool that each character should have the option to utilize to it's max. I'm not saying every character should have Luigi status slides, but no character should be denied the opportunity of a decent WD.

As it is, even with a longer WD you sitll have to deal with the same 10frame cooldown, so it's not like WD = instawin, still gotta be mindful of spacing, because you can easily be punished.

Good stuff though.

 

[Shadic]

edit: kaizo, Brawl characters will have them. Jigglypuff, Samus, G&W, and Olimar are the only ones without those sound effects. That's OK for Samus and Olimar, but it's weird that Puff and G&W don't have them.

Yeah. Nothing beats the sound of "JIGGGLLLYYY" when smashing 'puff hard in Melee.

 

[stingers]

just import jiggs, samus, and gaw from melee o.o
olimar...idk, have elton john scream rocket maaaaaaaan or something

 

[camelot]

Also on the Lucas vs. Sheik video, some post-hit yells and whooshing hasn't been removed? Although I do remember that not all characters have been covered but most have at least gotten their heavy hit yells set.

I'd say about half of the characters still need those yells, including Sheik.

The whooshing sound isn't on the individual .pacs for characters, so they haven't been removed (yet?).

 

[crazycrackers]

No character should have a TERRIBLE WD. That's one aspect of Melee that should go, in my opinion. It's a tool that each character should have the option to utilize to it's max. I'm not saying every character should have Luigi status slides, but no character should be denied the opportunity of a decent WD.

As it is, even with a longer WD you sitll have to deal with the same 10frame cooldown, so it's not like WD = instawin, still gotta be mindful of spacing, because you can easily be punished.

Good stuff though.

True, but I'm just saying, when I saw Peach do a (roughly) Samus-status WD I was just "0_O". Nevertheless, characters like Peach and Ganon don't need to have WDs like they did in Melee.

 

[Dan_X]

^^:D

Wait. Jiggly doesn't have her JIGLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY scream? It's not on Brawl.. at all? Can we take sounds from Melee? Is sound importing possible yet?

 

[Deleted member]

just import jiggs, samus, and gaw from melee o.o
olimar...idk, have elton john scream rocket maaaaaaaan or something

For Brawl chars w/o any good sounds you could try importing them from their respective game franchises. Like some Snake sfx from Metal Gear games, Sonic from his games, Luigi's from Luigi's Mansion (too cool).

Edit: Once importing becomes possible.

 

[Plum]

Wavedashes are so fun being so long but **** do some characters have crazy good ones.
Today I played only Snake... Dear god wavedashing + his tilts is scary good... Something about Snake being able to quickly approach with his tilts is so sick though. That and what it does to his defense...
Either way it's too long considering the character

 

[Deleted member]

Wavedashes are so fun being so long but **** do some characters have crazy good ones.
Today I played only Snake... Dear god wavedashing + his tilts is scary good... Something about Snake being able to quickly approach with his tilts is so sick though. That and what it does to his defense...
Either way it's too long considering the character

Snake does have great movement with his DACUS and good spacing with his extraordinary tilts combined with grenade camping to prevent grabs and combos from occurring too often. I don't wanna theorycraft, but he'd even still probably be well off with a more modest WD.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Oh man keep up the incredible work guys, this looks SO LEGIT! Please, please show us Ganondorf soon, he was my Melee main and he needs his triumphant return to glory! How about a genuine Melee texture for him too, not of that curly hair s****. Oh and seeing Falco, Marth and Sonic would be nice too. I cannot WAIT for the public beta!

 

[kaizo13]

i don't mind giving melee characters better WDs than they did in Melee but just don't make them seem out of place.

like peach/ zelda had pretty small WDs in Melee....but i wouldn't like to see them with a marth sized WD, keep them similar to their melee WDs (with a small increase in lenght) it would help incorperate the Melee feel we're looking for

as for snake...i can see him with a Falcon sized WD, nothing too big


EDIT: speaking of WDs, the currect MAD doesn't look right to me...like it doesn't stall long enough and it doesn't go as far as it should. Also make sure it has the few frames of landing lag. Hope to see an improved version soon ^^

 

[shanus]

i don't mind giving melee characters better WDs than they did in Melee but just don't make them seem out of place.

like peach/ zelda had pretty small WDs in Melee....but i wouldn't like to see them with a marth sized WD, keep them similar to their melee WDs (with a small increase in lenght) it would help incorperate the Melee feel we're looking for

as for snake...i can see him with a Falcon sized WD, nothing too big


EDIT: speaking of WDs, the currect MAD doesn't look right to me...like it doesn't stall long enough and it doesn't go as far as it should. Also make sure it has the few frames of landing lag. Hope to see an improved version soon ^^

It's nearly identical to melee in length and identical in duration. It's about as frame perfect as a MAD can get.

 

[kaizo13]

yea maybe you're right Shanus...it's just that the few times i've seen it just looks like they're falling withought stalling (especially MADing downwards)

but it might just be cuz im watching over streams and stuff, i'll just wait it out

EDIT: yea it does look fine...my bad (stupid streams >>)

 

[Near²]

The sound effect when you shine in Brawl gets really annoying, are you guys removing that?

 

[crazycrackers]

The sound effect when you shine in Brawl gets really annoying, are you guys removing that?

This. Also, it seems like there is still that brawl style "pause" when you shine.

 

[Deleted member]

This. Also, it seems like there is still that brawl style "pause" when you shine.

That's just cosmetic stuff to aesthetically please people. There's no point in adding that in now before physics engine is done and before character balance. I'd guess they'll mess with gfx/sfx later.

 

[crazycrackers]

That's just cosmetic stuff to aesthetically please people. There's no point in adding that in now before physics engine is done and before character balance. I'd guess they'll mess with gfx/sfx later.

Ah, I see. I don't have P:M, so from the looks of it I had thought that Fox's shine had too much hitlag to be JC'd instantly, but I guess its just the visual effect.

 

[kaizo13]

correct me if i'm wrong but in Melee you could only pivot during the dash animation, in Brawl you can pivot even when already in the run animation?

i think P:M is using Brawls pivoting system and i personally think it should be reverted to its melee form

not only does brawl's pivoting system make grabs easier but it also allows you to run across the stage and Bair a recovering enemy

(which in my opinion, changes metagame way too much)

 

[OFY]

Yea, I wasn't rlly good with shiek in that video, i wasnt feeling it when i was playing with her at DSO, but Falcon on the other hand :3

Those falco vs falcon matches need to get up!

 

[Starscream]

not only does brawl's pivoting system make grabs easier but it also allows you to run across the stage and Bair a recovering enemy

(which in my opinion, changes metagame way too much)

Really? That's one of the things that I actually really like about Brawl. I don't think there's anything wrong with something that "changes" the metagame. If we wanted the same metagame as Melee, we'd just play Melee. Don't forget about all the low tiers being buffed and new characters in the mix as well. Besides, RAR to wavedash edgehog is gonna be so legit.You can do that in P:M, right?

 

[GPDP]

Yeah, I'm preeeeeetty sure RAR is not going to be taken out of P:M.

Remember, this game is Melee 2.0, not Melee 1.1. Of course the metagame is going to be different.

Oh, and yes, RAR to wavedash will be possible. The thought of it excites me.

 

[kaizo13]

yea i guess i wouldn't mind if RAR stayed (*changed my mind)


EDIT: the thing i don't like about this is that....in Melee if you wanted to edgehog someone across the stage you would have to Run> WD fowards> dash dance> WD backwards > edgehog

with RAR you would just hold back to pivot> WD backwards......kinda boring and dumbed down

(it's on the same boat with reverse ledge grabbing)

 

[iLink]

Man...

that fox vs falcon video was so good i had to watch it a second time to make sure i didn't miss anything

 

[Dai Tian]

Second? I'm on my 4th or 5th. God this looks so ****.

 

[GPDP]

yea i guess i wouldn't mind if RAR stayed (*changed my mind)


EDIT: the thing i don't like about this is that....in Melee if you wanted to edgehog someone across the stage you would have to Run> WD fowards> dash dance> WD backwards > edgehog

with RAR you would just hold back to pivot> WD backwards......kinda boring and dumbed down

(it's on the same boat with reverse ledge grabbing)

Needless complication for the sake of needless complication is stupid IMO, especially when it involves getting rid of a technique that adds depth to the game. It does not justify taking away options given to us by the RAR mechanic. RAR is one of the few good things Brawl gave us, and it would be senseless to take it away just because it might make edgehogging slightly easier to do.

 

[Sterowent]

not to cut out some hype, because i'm brimming with it right now, but something is still gnawing at me. and i'll explain it...with fruit.

alright, so we got an apple and a mango, their tips sitting at the edge of two 1 foot rulers. we move each fruit to the end of their respective rulers, each tip just reaching the end much the same way they began. each of them went just 1 foot, right?

alright. try to imagine it without the ruler. each fruit still goes 1 foot. someone tells you this. but, which one FELT like it went farther? would you say the apple? because i might.

you know what i mean, guys, right? i hope this is changed. i know i can't be the only one with this problem right now. and i don't know if everything is apples either. but i have a feeling that brawl is mangos.

 

[GPDP]

not to cut out some hype, because i'm brimming with it right now, but something is still gnawing at me. and i'll explain it...with fruit.

alright, so we got an apple and a mango, their tips sitting at the edge of two 1 foot rulers. we move each fruit to the end of their respective rulers, each tip just reaching the end much the same way they began. each of them went just 1 foot, right?

alright. try to imagine it without the ruler. each fruit still goes 1 foot. someone tells you this. but, which one FELT like it went farther? would you say the apple? because i might.

you know what i mean, guys, right? i hope this is changed. i know i can't be the only one with this problem right now. and i don't know if everything is apples either. but i have a feeling that brawl is mangos.

So what you're saying is, Melee is apples, and Project M is a modified mango designed to look and taste and feel like an apple, right? But that no matter how much work is done on the mango to make it an apple, it's still gonna have some element of a mango, however minute, and this teeny tiny element throws you completely off?

I think I got it right. Your analogy is confusing lol.

If this is the case... honestly, chill out. It's obvious it's not going to get everything from Melee "feeling" right 100%, even if the cold, hard statistics say otherwise, due to the fact that it's an entirely different game being modified to be like another one. You should have come to terms with this long ago.

 

[Sterowent]

i'm sayin that brawl feels bloated.

i get this feeling that in brawl, the character models are these giant things. and, unlike with melee, nothing is done to minimize the feeling that they're huge. large, bright effects, stages that don't feel proportional, camera's so close (and dead).

in melee, you had a camera that gave the viewer a range of motion to see the action, which felt like it included the stage more and focused more on the match rather than the characters themselves. it kept the environment in frame too! the GFX were very characteristic and fun, comic book blotches that had their own character. the stages themselves had a feeling of great proportion and felt more alive, rather than simply a backdrop. a lot felt in focus when you watched a match.

brawl needs to be changed in this field of aesthetics too, before project:M can really be taken for what it is at its core.

 

[GPDP]

Eh, I might be in the minority here, but I honestly have never had that much of a problem with Brawl's aesthetics, other than the camera and the lack of high-% knockback screams, certainly not to the level that a lot of Melee fans and purists who so regularly voice such concerns do. Stages are getting bigger, the camera has been Melee-fied, and I really don't care much for Melee's visual or sound effects other than the aforementioned screams.

I honestly think much of the concern over aesthetics is primarily nostalgia-based. Sometimes there's a legitimate point, such as stage size, but then when we get to things like graphic effects, textures, and even models in a way other than size somehow being superior in Melee? I dunno, I can't bring myself to understand that POV. I'm too engrosed with the mechanics and the general Melee feel being brought back to really ponder upon those things. I would've even been fine if no animations had been changed whatsoever. In fact, I'm not a big supporter for such changes unless they're really necessary (come on, Ganon's old man run was not that bad).

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I can't really sympathize. Bringing back Melee's aesthetics are really not that important to me. Bringing back the speed, the tech skill (where it counts and doesn't in turn take away useful, non-broken options introduced in Brawl), and the general feel of Melee is so much more of a priority to me that I hardly even spare a thought to the other stuff.

 

[Dan_X]

Yeah... RARing, DACUSing, and crawling are some of the best things that Brawl brought to the table. They should not be removed (i know no1 mentioned removing dacus / crawling, I mention them as they are among the few things Brawl improved upon).

 

[iLink]

i'm sayin that brawl feels bloated.

i get this feeling that in brawl, the character models are these giant things. and, unlike with melee, nothing is done to minimize the feeling that they're huge. large, bright effects, stages that don't feel proportional, camera's so close (and dead).

in melee, you had a camera that gave the viewer a range of motion to see the action, which felt like it included the stage more and focused more on the match rather than the characters themselves. it kept the environment in frame too! the GFX were very characteristic and fun, comic book blotches that had their own character. the stages themselves had a feeling of great proportion and felt more alive, rather than simply a backdrop. a lot felt in focus when you watched a match.

brawl needs to be changed in this field of aesthetics too, before project:M can really be taken for what it is at its core.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but by the looks of the video, BF was enlarged a bit as well as a fix to the camera.

 

[Sterowent]

i can sympathize with melee purists, personally. though i don't believe this is limited to that group alone.
to each his own, but i do sincerely find that melee graphics were superior, not based on nostalgia, not based on any hate towards brawl, but based on the character of the graphics themselves. after all, a comic book style collision effect seems awfully more alive than a swishy flash of light. to me, at least.

yes, that stage was larger. the camera coding is incomplete at the moment, however.

 

[Sneak8288]

Rar is fine and fits pretty well althought rar wd isn't always reliable since the amount of distance u need to dash and rar with most characters anyway. So rar wd is more of a situational thing and both techniques will be used.
And with lucas I was trying more technical things and trying to explore combo options and starters than trying to win with regular lucas things. In other matches with lucas a lot of other moves really slowed down his style, things like uptilt and the way he grabs. I wish he had ness's grab. And last but not least... the shine even tho there's a pause the timing is still the same but it did throw me off a lil but I can stil jcshine easy. And u have to put up the falco vids lol I think they show so much melee style progress that you guys have made.

 

[Sneak8288]

sry for dbl post. Smashboards failed lol

 

[kaizo13]

Needless complication for the sake of needless complication is stupid IMO, especially when it involves getting rid of a technique that adds depth to the game. It does not justify taking away options given to us by the RAR mechanic. RAR is one of the few good things Brawl gave us, and it would be senseless to take it away just because it might make edgehogging slightly easier to do.

Yeah... RARing, DACUSing, and crawling are some of the best things that Brawl brought to the table. They should not be removed (i know no1 mentioned removing dacus / crawling, I mention them as they are among the few things Brawl improved upon).

i never said they weren't good techniques....they are, but just not for this project imo

and GPDP, if that's true about "Needless complications" then why was L-canceling added in this project? it's a needless complication isn't it? you know why it was included in this project? because it adds technicality and it makes it Melee. L-canceling might be a stupid needless technique but it belongs in this project.

i know this is Melee 2.0 so it's expected to see some changes.

i'm all for keeping good Brawl character specific moves to help out the low tiers BUT implementing too many universal aspects of Brawl will just change the way the game is played too much.

i don't wan't "Project Brawlee"