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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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9Kplus1
Smash Master
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Are you over the age 18? [Y] [N]
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Cubelarooso
Smash Lord
Have you read our terms and agreements?
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Edit: Woah, woah, that form just switched on me!
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Gimme gimme gimme!
Edit: Woah, woah, that form just switched on me!
MaxThunder
PM Support
dude... your name... i just got it... wow...
JediKnightTemplar
Smash Lord
Until the second demo isn't released?
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
So wait, the tiers a literally just based on what gets used more? What a ******** tier system. Everyone starts using wurmple and it gets banned from NU lol.
Ike should be banned because he's the most used character online.
9Kplus1
Smash Master
BL is the banlist for anything UU and below; Ubers is the banlist for OU (regarding the Pokemon at least. Although, I'm very sure that a general banlist will surface sometime soon); BL2 is the list of prospective tier promotions. The tier lists don't change as frequently as you're probably thinking. If Wurmple remains above the cutoff for RU for more than a single month, then I'd be more impressed that people are dedicated to such a joke.
That was our lesson for today, kids. Remember to stay in school and away from drugs, such as Trolling! (weed is fine, though)
------------------------------
Anyway, has anyone come to any conclusions about who the most conservative and defensive (commonly referred to as "gay") characters in P:M are so far?
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Well, we know that Jigglypuff will remain as she was in Melee, so there is one. Well at least if you play her HBox style. Ivysaur is looking like she might end up like this as well, but as I am not in the PMBR I have no idea on how she plays atm.
PeachEater74
Smash Apprentice
The tier lists for Pokemon are based on usage to show people what's most popular and therefor effective in the current meta. Nothing like usage shows what is working the best. There are inherent flaws in every system, and honestly there are way too many freaking Pokemon for it to be an opinion based tier list that changes once a month.
- Joined
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- 26,560
too may pokemon for a real tier list
usage is rly the only way you can do it even though it's ********
usage is rly the only way you can do it even though it's ********
JOE!
Smash Hero
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
I can't imagine anyone being able to "blow up" any of the top tiers from melee if they go unchanged, they are just too all around good imo to have a solid counterpick be possible. But maybe I'm just being cynical. I suppose someone could counter puff but it would be due to being really good at camping and timing her out. I don't think that's something you guys want. Think of her matchup with YL in melee, but if YL was actually a really good character overall.
Personally I think Spacies should be nerfed a bit from what they were in melee, doesn't have to be things relating to their playstyles (less KB on kill moves, more lag on landing after recovery moves, etc.). And sheik should be PAL sheik at least. Don't know if Jiggs needs anything, I don't really think she deserves top tier anyways. Just my 2 cents though.
~puts up flame shield~
EDIT: about pokemon tiers. It's not like the smash tier list isn't partially based on tournament results, which in turn are highly influenced by usage. Not to say that makes usage based tier lists any better, but it's not like it's unheard of.
Personally I think Spacies should be nerfed a bit from what they were in melee, doesn't have to be things relating to their playstyles (less KB on kill moves, more lag on landing after recovery moves, etc.). And sheik should be PAL sheik at least. Don't know if Jiggs needs anything, I don't really think she deserves top tier anyways. Just my 2 cents though.
~puts up flame shield~
EDIT: about pokemon tiers. It's not like the smash tier list isn't partially based on tournament results, which in turn are highly influenced by usage. Not to say that makes usage based tier lists any better, but it's not like it's unheard of.
Cubelarooso
Smash Lord
What? There're only (649 choose 6) = 101,407,385,752,596 possibilities. That's disregarding alternate forms and who takes lead slot (plus trailing slot for Illusion teams), but the pure bulk of ignorable NFEs would more than compensate the difference.
Now, if moving down to the moveset level… The sheer amount of effort combing through Bulbapedia/Serebii/Veekun/pick-your-poison for just the NUMBER of possibilities you'd have to tier against eachother…
Then there're items, abilities, natures, EVs… Plus there're the lists for double, triple, and rotation battles… And there's the fact that the creation of this list would affect the way people play, and thus change the list…
Also, I heard Project: M is cool.
G
genkaku
Guest
melee top tiers really won't take that much to challenge.
The falco boards were just talking about how tricky the samus matchup is. Samus loses as soon as falco, with his many options, covers samus' few. However, until the falco does this the matchup can go so far as to look even. If samus had more viable options it would be even harder for falco to break out.
PM ideally gives low tier characters more viable options with the assumption that the matchups can be made a lot closer at the very least.
A prior low tier character with new tools in the hands of a very smart player will do very very good things. It won't show itself until that player appears, but the cap that was the prior tier is going to be blown open. Period.
The falco boards were just talking about how tricky the samus matchup is. Samus loses as soon as falco, with his many options, covers samus' few. However, until the falco does this the matchup can go so far as to look even. If samus had more viable options it would be even harder for falco to break out.
PM ideally gives low tier characters more viable options with the assumption that the matchups can be made a lot closer at the very least.
A prior low tier character with new tools in the hands of a very smart player will do very very good things. It won't show itself until that player appears, but the cap that was the prior tier is going to be blown open. Period.
Virum
Smash Ace
Wait, what's the point of nerfing the spacies if what we're doing is balancing every character to be at around the same level as the spacies?
Archangel
Smash Hero
@Spacies discussion...
can you guys even read? I ask because those of us that can already know them and the other top tiers will not be getting nerfs.
As for who can challenge the Spacies I'm thinking everybody. Puff has some improved as well as new challenges. She will not dominate the sky like before. Sheik well she still has her Dthrow(for now). However she is still combo food and alot of characters also have 0-90ish/death combos or chain throws on her as well. I don't see any spacies getting blown up once people are able to play them on the level of someone like Mango, SilentWolf, Lucky, Eggm, Lovage, Dr.PP...etc. However they will have much closer contested sets with pretty much everyone now.
I'm not sure it will be safe to main Spacies once this is done without having a back up of some kinds. Then again, I'm not sure anyone will main 1 character in a game like Project Melee.
can you guys even read? I ask because those of us that can already know them and the other top tiers will not be getting nerfs.
As for who can challenge the Spacies I'm thinking everybody. Puff has some improved as well as new challenges. She will not dominate the sky like before. Sheik well she still has her Dthrow(for now). However she is still combo food and alot of characters also have 0-90ish/death combos or chain throws on her as well. I don't see any spacies getting blown up once people are able to play them on the level of someone like Mango, SilentWolf, Lucky, Eggm, Lovage, Dr.PP...etc. However they will have much closer contested sets with pretty much everyone now.
I'm not sure it will be safe to main Spacies once this is done without having a back up of some kinds. Then again, I'm not sure anyone will main 1 character in a game like Project Melee.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Why use a spacie when Zelda is almost as good and 90 times easier to pick up?
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
I think with the way that TL has changed, his "old" MU with Jigglypuff changes back towards Puff's favor. Especially with his weakened recovery and I think he's a FFer now?
DK will blow up bad spacies really badly. He sorta did in Melee, but man... new DK just looks ridiculous. Maybe new Link? Definitely new Zelda.
Then again... I think Falco might have a couple more tools in his arsenal for various character. He has his DACUS (if the Demo has any indication --- and laser to DACUS which might be good for people who don't CC or see it ahead of time) which is pretty freaking fast (even though it's still Usmash)... but the scarier thing than that is his boost-pivot grab, which is a really good mix-up provided that he retains the distance it covered in the Demo.
DK will blow up bad spacies really badly. He sorta did in Melee, but man... new DK just looks ridiculous. Maybe new Link? Definitely new Zelda.
Then again... I think Falco might have a couple more tools in his arsenal for various character. He has his DACUS (if the Demo has any indication --- and laser to DACUS which might be good for people who don't CC or see it ahead of time) which is pretty freaking fast (even though it's still Usmash)... but the scarier thing than that is his boost-pivot grab, which is a really good mix-up provided that he retains the distance it covered in the Demo.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Why's that? I think because the game is more balanced even though it's impossible to make it perfectly balanced, then that's all the more reason to be a character specialist.. You won't have ridiculously bad match-ups forcing you to change characters, (If that's possible.. haven't seen this yet in any fighters)
Archangel
Smash Hero
I think it's too tempting to play other characters. First of all there is the fun element. It's just way too fun to play other characters especially considering there isn't a cut off line where 60% or more of the characters are unusable at a serious level.
Aside from that I think as balanced as the game should be there will be at least 1 bad MU for everyone most likely. Although I can see why you would prefer to keep one character you are Kage
.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Of course.. I can't get enough of Ganon. lol.
Revven
FrankerZ
Nope, still same physics as YL.
9Kplus1
Smash Master
Does Strong Bad count as a character?
i'm pretty sure the goal isn't to balance everyone to spacey level, as you would almost have to give everyone a shine. my understanding was they were balancing to melee's captain falcon/peach level, as that's much more easily attainable without making project:marvel.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Currently we're shooting for anywhere between Melee high and top tier. IMO a narrower window is downright unrealistic for the sheer number of characters we're trying to balance.
I think spacies, while still amazing, are going to have a tough time in the early P:M metagame (after we make a new release and HAVE a metagame of course). Some characters (Bowser, ROB, Wario, Mario, Zelda, DK, and plenty others I'm sure) can do seriously dirty things to spacies who don't know the matchup, and it's gonna take time for space animal players to learn all these new matchups, and until then, they're newcomer food.
I think spacies, while still amazing, are going to have a tough time in the early P:M metagame (after we make a new release and HAVE a metagame of course). Some characters (Bowser, ROB, Wario, Mario, Zelda, DK, and plenty others I'm sure) can do seriously dirty things to spacies who don't know the matchup, and it's gonna take time for space animal players to learn all these new matchups, and until then, they're newcomer food.
Archangel
Smash Hero
The thing about lucario is he's not even really a melee character. We are going to see how Melee top tiers stack up against Street fighter characters 
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Of course I read that, doesn't stop me from disagreeing.
Another reason I think that is because since afaik they aren't buffing some of the higher end characters that are still worse than spacies/top tier so that leaves them where they are (IE not top of the line). I know that there will always be characters that are average and characters that are at the top but I think it's unnecessary to let these characters slide as being "good enough" when you pretty much know for certain they won't be as good as others. At the same time, I think these characters are at a good power level (less than 9000) and that it's the ones above them who are just too good. As CORY said we don't want this to end up being Project: Marvel.
Idk though, there are definitely factors that could change all of this that I'm not seeing (for one, new matchups could affect tier list placement for these characters), I've just been thinking about it recently.
Comeback Kid
Smash Champion
Heavy characters seem to be really good now. I think that's a great thing (ie balance) but some people will be annoyed that their precious top-tier main is getting destroyed by simple (at least to them) tactics. People will just need to adapt.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
IMO the perfect example of a well done heavy character is Potemkin in GG XX AC. Then again I consider almost every character in GG well done.
hotdogturtle
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
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It's fine if people want to continue playing their top tier Melee characters in P:M since they play the same way. They just have to remember that the game around them has changed and other characters are now viable opponents.
Well, you will have bad matchups, but I doubt there will be any matchup worse than say... "Spacie VS Jiggs". There will od course be bad matchups as I'm sure you are aware, but we hoping to have every character viable. It would probably still be a good idea to use two different characters to cover your main's bad matchups, but as you said, it would still be entierly feasible to be a specialist and do "better" than in Melee. while using a non-top tier.
If anything, I think it is the top tier players who will start looking around for secondaries.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Revenge from the other end of the brawl tier list.
Cubelarooso
Smash Lord
I think that was the point. Although I think a slightly more lopsided example would be more realistic.
Cero
Smash Lord
Bowser vs. Sheik/Peach in Melee?
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