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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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JCaesar
Smash Hero
Ahh Trahh. ****ing Falcos everywhere at that tourney haha. Yet I only lost to Ganon
Dammit Kage!
BadGuy
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2008
- Messages
- 284
I think it has less to do with falco's "broken" laser and more to do with arming the rest of the cast with the tools to deal with the said laser, which the pmbr is doing, have faith in us...now sign your name in blood on this contract.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Metal Cavern has massive blast zones compared to the size of the stage. And an uneven base. And a small base. And a ceiling too high to double shine off the top. It's a pretty bad stage for Falco.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Snake only has one grenade with a much smaller hitbox that doesn't KO to the same extent. His recovery is worse, he's far lighter than he used to be, his tilts aren't stupidly good KO moves, and the hitboxes on his moves actually make sense now. (And the worst offender, Utilt, is gone.)
Saying that Snake has only been improved is silly.
Comeback Kid
Smash Champion
This sounds like a great idea buried by theory fighter snake.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I really hope you're kidding.
And snake is still terrible. I don't know who said he's good, but...well you're wrong. snake sucks pretty hardcore. any character that has no air to ground game (ike, snake) is always going to have a MAJOR weakness and you'd have to fundamentally change the character or compensate elsewhere to "balance" them but both of those options are really annoying to actually play against.
Like I randomly played the first version of PM and it was VERY obvious that someone wanted yoshi to be REALLY ****ING good for no reason. It's not cool guys, and it's poor design long-term.
Having a perfectly balanced game or making all of the characters equally potent might be really romantic goals I guess but they're going to kick you in the *** later when you're trying to make the game actually good.
edit: Kirby is PERFECT the way he is and don't you go ****ing it up.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
yeah i agree with you. if you bend over backwards to attempt to balance a game like smash to where 4-6's are the worst match-ups... you're going to have some characters with really obnoxious playstyles and the game won't really be fun to play. that or a bunch of characters that have lots of similarities among them. i can already feel Squirtle being pretty similar to Pikachu in many regards outside of his specials, because there are only so many ways you can make a small character good w/o being fastfallers.
D
Deleted member
Guest
ya squirtle is ****ing godly but he has "low weight". so he's either really annoying to fight, or you get hit twice and he's really annoying to play as. it might be balanced but in the end it's actually just annoying.
edit: Link can probably stay the way he is. I kinda like it when JC whoops my *** with a char that i should be able to shield camp lol
edit: Link can probably stay the way he is. I kinda like it when JC whoops my *** with a char that i should be able to shield camp lol
Comeback Kid
Smash Champion
Stone cancel wouldn't mess him up only make stone situationally better. And make Kirby less boring.
But there really is too much "buff my human character" in this thread tonight. Link and Snake don't have to be the best, even on paper. Just decent enough to put up a good fight.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
What makes a character not annoying? Is it an ability to effectively punish them? Or having not having 100% safe options?
What's the difference between a character like Squirtle in Project M, and Melee characters such as Peach and Jigglypuff? I like that you're saying something outside the norm, (and intelligently) I just wanna get more out of it.
I'm assuming you played semi-recently with JC or something? What specific issues did you notice with Yoshi, and what specific design decisions do you think are poor? How does it fit poorly into a Melee environment?
I'm glad you like Link, though.
Could you elaborate on your experience with the link matches? Why can't you shield camp him now? JC's Link is not super great, and I would like to know why you had trouble with it... I remember you playing a great shiek and shiek ***** link.
felipe_9595
Smash Lord
He was Bottom Tier even in Soul Calibur II XPPPPPPPPPP
drsusredfish
Smash Ace
So his brawl incarnation would beat his P:M incarnation? If that isn't the case, and i hope its not, then he's goten better.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
It's not really comparable. They both function very differently because the games have vastly different mechanics and styles.
felipe_9595
Smash Lord
LoL i was going to post it again for the same reasons xDDDDComeback Kid said:
Archangel
Smash Hero
BTW......what's up with Sheik's Side-b? I know it's not going to tether or whatever but...it's somewhat useless and sometimes a death-trap when recovering...something gonna be done about this?
drsusredfish
Smash Ace
sure sure make fun of the theory fighter
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
You can have a small stage with wide blast zones (metal cavern, Foutain of Dreams, battlefield). If the platforms on Foutain of Dreams weren't so amazing for Falco I'd counterpick him there more (Metal Cavern basically gives me that lol)
drsusredfish
Smash Ace
Ok done with snake. samus. homming missle. ice damage. high damge freezes. discuss
i'd rather have the four hits of her usmash be the move that shows the different effects in her arsenal, rather than her missiles. I.e First hit =fire(plasma beam), 2nd hit do lightning(wave beam) 3rd hit do dark damage(Dark beam) and fiNAl hit do Ice damage(ice beam) which always freeze,but still send them on its melee trajactory or something similar to that effect.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Freeze is a terrible status effect and should not in anyway be a part of Samus's character. I'd rather have her just be good instead of gimmicky.
The devs could probably change this,
Besides right now only IC B and DownB apply ice effect(which will probably be changed like how lucas side B doesnt apply freeze effect), so if the devs could change the way the freeze property works, so you know, it isn't horrible, it could actually be a good thing rather then bad thing.
Also i forgot to say whoever said that Cfalcon arrow to the knee meme, well done, well done bravo, that was actually funny.
Akuma2120
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2008
- Messages
- 826
I'd love to test Link, but Shawn Numbers up and disappeared and Shanus doesn't want to chill, that doesn't mean I couldn't test him out with some of my friends but they're not as good as me, I'd be willing to test Link specifically since it seems no one else is and I don't give 2 ***** about the rest of the cast
No one I've seen has an even remotely good Link, I guess it's really just me, but I've already explained the dilemma
I don't think so, he's definitely better, but I feel he gets ***** by Falco and Fox, moreso Falco
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I don't get it. Does Link counter Falcon or something
Comeback Kid
Smash Champion
Spacie matches are not the only measuring stick for how good a character is. Some characters should be soundly beaten by spacies yet still dominate against many others. It's a super large cast after all.
Akuma2120
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2008
- Messages
- 826
Falcon just isn't that great from what I've played of him
Never said it was, but you're forgetting how small the cast is for the demo, not saying the current Link is bad, but he could be better without breaking anything, one good Link player came around here once and said he should still be improved, the guy the P:M team took suggestions from in the first place
Shadic
Alakadoof?
In Melee? Oh gods no.
It's still in Falcon's favor in P:M, but Link has some better tools all-around to put up a fight, at least.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Agreed, Still I think having an official Falco/Fox Counter would be fun. Some argue Puff but with the 2012 stages coming up and Mango retiring his puff in singles then I'd say it's pretty much leveled the playing field completely.
I think we need someone to be immune to shines...that would pretty much do it
hotdogturtle
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
- Messages
- 3,503
New boss character: Shined Blind FoxI think we need someone to be immune to shines...that would pretty much do it
He's so blind that he's immune to all light-based attacks. Plus all of his attacks do twice as much damage as normal Fox's, and he's as heavy as vBrawl Snake.
Banned from tournaments.
To I R MarF and others (maybe most of you) that I have put off a bit recently:
I'm sorry that I came off so aggressive in this thread and probably elsewhere. I keep up on every post here so I get a bit too critical of things that might have been answered long ago, or attitudes that I am personally opposed to. I understand not everyone wants to debate everything and be constantly challenged so harshly, and I should really tone it down because I don't officially speak for the Project with every post I make (or with many at all really).
So sorry to you folks, I'm genuinely going to be more patient and helpful to all of the interested souls here.
PS: If possible lets not make this a bash PEEF time
I'm sorry that I came off so aggressive in this thread and probably elsewhere. I keep up on every post here so I get a bit too critical of things that might have been answered long ago, or attitudes that I am personally opposed to. I understand not everyone wants to debate everything and be constantly challenged so harshly, and I should really tone it down because I don't officially speak for the Project with every post I make (or with many at all really).
So sorry to you folks, I'm genuinely going to be more patient and helpful to all of the interested souls here.
PS: If possible lets not make this a bash PEEF time
JediKnightTemplar
Smash Lord
So would that make Ray Charles god tier if he were in P:M?
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-DEADDDDDDDDDD-
**** MAN
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D
Deleted member
Guest
I think what defines annoying will always be completely subjective, both to each character and to the players themselves. For me, I hate fighting squirtle because I'm used to melee jigglypuff's in and out aerial harassment, and squirtle is a smaller, faster version of that. Usually with a character like melee jigglypuff (who is still quite obnoxious on her own) is checked in that her big circular hitbox is easy to clip by throwing out safe moves, her slow air/ground speed, susceptibility to throw combos, etc. Squirtle, while even more frail, can generally play around those weaknesses to the point where a lot of characters have to throw out a move and hope squirtle runs into it.
I played vs cmart's squirtle for a while with zelda, and it's not really realistic for her to actually aim an attack and expect it to hit, so the match devolves into 5 minutes of pot-shots. Maybe zelda vs squirtle is a bad match because zelda already has issues pinning some characters down, but a lot of other faster characters that are good at it seem to have the same problems. For example, it's not much easier for Sheik or Falco to pin down squirtle, and those characters are REALLY good at that kind of engagement. How many MUs do you want to play out like that? As long as you know what you're doing it's okay. I don't think design has to be perfect or balanced, but know what you're doing and why. To answer you more directly, I think melee peach and jigglypuff are annoying on some fronts, but you can also interact with them on many others. squirtle doesn't have that.
I think if I had to define my idea of annoying to you, it's how much interaction you can remove from any particular game. The inability to interact with the opponent some front will create frustration. Many of the brawl characters in particular are hugely non-interactive in some way, whether it be snake's inability to land vs a grounded character, ZSS range-camping into autocombos, and of course melee falco's lasers are in there too. I think stages can add to or take away from interaction too, so for example I don't like warioware because camping under the side platforms is so so good for a few select characters (ex. ROB) and is so bad for everyone else.
On the contrary, some characters are hugely interactive on every front, and these interactions create depth and keep the players interested. I think characters like Link and Kirby are really successful here. The same goes for the stages, and I really like the new Temple stage because the uneven terrain makes certain strategies better than others depending where you are on the stage or who you're playing as, but I didn't see anything overpowering either. The additional depth and dynamic is really nice.
it's an internet forum. if you don't like the things that i type, just block my posts.
i couldn't shield camp link because his moves are more threatening and faster, so there's some new risk/reward action going on, but you can still find some way to work around everything which is really cool. For the most part I beat his Link with Sheik soundly, but the other characters i played the matches were much closer and I had to respect his strategies and he had to respect mine. You can't just mindlessly ride character advantage over him anymore even in link's bad matches, but nothing on him i could see was particularly poorly designed. idk I can't play link but I think he was done pretty well overall.
edit: I don't really understand the peef bashing in this game. Can someone explain it to me?
phurgawtin
Smash Apprentice
Yoshi's second jump is shineproof.I think we need someone to be immune to shines...that would pretty much do it
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