Project M Social Thread

[GHNeko]

Falco is a blooper.

He's automatically better than everything. Including P:M.

His lasers are a concentrated mass of Winning.

**** falco.

Also, Snake isnt bad. He's just underplayed.

 

[Vigilante]

Well here's a way to make all matchups 50:50.

Replace all characters by Mario. Of course, counters wil exist, but most characters are being given stuff to deal with spacie tactics, so your fears can recede a little. As for Link, I haven't worked on him at all, but we need more poeple like Shadic to test him, I think.

 

[Xebenkeck]

doesnt either qzzy or sniperfox have a good link? I cant remember which one.

 

[JCaesar]

Link is beast yo

 

[Vigilante]

I know Link can take on Melee top tiers at the very least.

 

[Rikana]

I still don't think link can take down fox or falco at a high level. But, at least he is able to do some stuff now compared to melee.

 

[phurgawtin]

Spacies are just the more technical characters. Even with Falco able to just do laser shine dair to win matches, the process of getting it done is still very technical. I imagine its very hard to balance other characters when you have to keep the spacie shenanigans in mind. Any character they can come up with their own advanced techniques for, i'm sure they will (i.e. Ike and his quick draw stuff), but you can't make a character as strong as the spacies without involving the same amount of technical prowess, otherwise nobody would ever play Fox or Falco anymore.

This is why Zelda and Snake can control the field with explosives, DK is a spacing nightmare that can fully utilize his beast of a reach quickly, Lucaryu is a combo *****, etc. Each character gets a unique role to fill, a niche where they can shine, no pun intended. Everybody playing differently in itself is a huge step in the way of balance compared to Melee.

Honestly, if all this means is closing the gap as far as possible between S tier and the G tier, that's good enough for me. And even if not, that didn't stop me from playing Kirby in Melee.

 

[Strong Badam]

outside of genesis 2 I've never lost a game as DK in this game lol

 

[drsusredfish]

speaking of link is it possible to make the arrows not dissapere when they hit opponnent and they stick in for a little while? I want this poster to be relevent lol.

 

[JOE!]

wtf is that meme even about, somethign in Skyrim?

 

[drsusredfish]

yes here is where its from
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhE6dLI1Q2E

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

My oppinion is that Snake is as good as your mindgame, but also as bad as the perceptiveness of your foe. It's really all about outsmarting your foe.

With that said, neither Jiang nor I, as fans of the MGS series will allow Snake to flat-out suck, lol. He wears a badass a bandana. he can't suck.

Don't forget about me.....
I'm a fan too.

+1 on Snake being underused.
Yoshi is Never used. LOL

Doing this through the library is much faster than trying to do this from the Wii with dead batteries.....

Anyway, the Adapter I need has gotten cheaper but..... I have more important things to worry about.

 

[Octorox]

speaking of link is it possible to make the arrows not dissapere when they hit opponnent and they stick in for a little while? I want this poster to be relevent lol.

Brawl Captain Falcon: I used to be high tier, then I took an arrow to the knee.

 

[Gust14]

Now that you're talking about matchups here's something I’ve wanted to say.

As I see it each character should have a matchup average of 50% +-10, that way nobody could complain about their character sucking overall; Also the range for any matchup shouldn't be above 65:35 or below 35:65, that way there wouldn't be strict counters to any character; Finally each character should have at least 5- 6 50:50 matchups but no more than 15 or so 50:50 matchups so that their gameplay is interesting and the meta-game doesn’t get stuck. In this way you could achieve balance. Anyway, I know this is very idealized and trust the pmbr

 

[Strong Badam]

Brawl Captain Falcon: I used to be high tier, then I took an arrow to the knee.

Loolll oh my god I'm dying here

 

[Qzzy]

doesnt either qzzy or sniperfox have a good link? I cant remember which one.

Raqu is the one with the good Link. He mains him in melee.

So far Link match-ups have been interesting. Collectively we've seen most of the melee top tiers against Link. Falco, Fox, and Falcon match ups play simimlarly to melee. It got tougher for marth. It got tougher for peach. Tougher for Samus. Ganon match plays about the same, even-ish, stage dependent.

Against the new cast things have seemed about even/playable. Kind of takes a **** on larger targets though, but not enough matches I feel to really confirm.

Raqu says he prefers the mid-sized stages most. Feels he does worst on the largest stages.

 

[JCaesar]

outside of genesis 2 I've never lost a game as DK in this game lol

Aw, you flatter me <3

That SB, such a charmer.

 

[hotdogturtle]

what i think is ideal is a situation where you have, for example, that peach and marth able to beat the fox and falco top tier. suddenly, peach and marth are top tier. but who beats peach and marth? let's just make **** up: mewtwo and pichu, **** yeah. so, mewtwo and pichu move up to high tier, and they happen to have a decent game against fox and falco, so they can't get wheaties **** upon. eventually mewtwo pichu dominates the metagame, pushing marth and peach back down and keeping fox and falco at bay. but lo! our saviors, ness and jigglypuff come around and we find that they have a good mewtwo pichu game! while also having a decent marth peach game. but they suck against fox and falco! so, suddenly the game's just turned itself back around.

In theory, that is how the metagame actually develops, just on a much smaller, less extreme scale because Melee has a lot fewer usable characters who can viably enter the revolving door. If they make P:M with the careful intent of making all the characters viable "on their own" (good in general, without taking into account "good in these matchups"), then this is hopefully what should happen naturally after the first group of dominant characters emerges.

The main thing stopping it from happening too much in Melee was that even some of the characters who had good high tier matchups are bad overall, so they can't stand up to the entire metagame at once.

 

[Vigilante]

@phurgawtin: I agree that variety is great. There are many kinds of players. Some prefer rushdown, others are highly technical, others are more mindgames-oriented etc... Having many styles I think is one of the ways to make the game better.

And of course Eternal Yoshi, you're probably the biggest MGS fan around here, lol!

 

[Strong Badam]

Aw, you flatter me <3

That SB, such a charmer.

I lost to Kage and I think Cubaisdeath too.

ROB is so weird to fight and yours is good.

 

[Starscream]

I find it hard to take people seriously when they say Falco is broken in Melee when **** like this happens.

Taj would later get ***** pretty hard by Mango's Fox.

1:13 - "Swing and a miss! Hope you don't play baseball!"

rofl

 

[JCaesar]

You sure it was Cuba? He got knocked out super early.

 

[Shadic]

what weakness and nerfs does snake have now? besides using one grenade. He seems to have goten nothing but buffs while MK and diddy look like they've goten nerfs. These 3 were high tier so why does snake look like the favorite child?

Comparing characters in Brawl to their Project M iterations doesn't really make any sense. They're completely different games.

 

[I R MarF]

Seriously though, would the P:M team ever consider reducing the potential abuse of Falco's lasers?

How about a 3 laser limit, then 15 seconds have to go by before Falco can shoot another 3?

His approach is too good guys. Approaching with projectiles is cool, but approaching with a projectile that has laser priority and your Falco is not cool

 

[Virum]

Brawl Captain Falcon: I used to be high tier, then I took an arrow to the knee.

I see what you did there....You clever b****** XD

 

[PEEF!]

Seriously though, would the P:M team ever consider reducing the potential abuse of Falco's lasers?

How about a 3 laser limit, then 15 seconds have to go by before Falco can shoot another 3?

His approach is too good guys. Approaching with projectiles is cool, but approaching with a projectile that has laser priority and your Falco is not cool

U R Scrub

thats all there is to it.

 

[Strong Badam]

JCaez: it was Trahh.

I hate Falco's laser too but Melee. Maybe after a full Project M release people would be more open to the idea of actually making the game better lol.

 

[GHNeko]

U R Scrub

thats all there is to it.

and there was no way. that you could of said that in a far more polite manner?

really?

 

[Strong Badam]

U R Scrub

thats all there is to it.

because you never complain about things

 

[Vigilante]

Come one Peef, no need to be like that to him. He asked a question, we should give him a serious answer. He's a fan with a question and doesn't deserve condescending treatment. It's attitudes like this that makes people hate the community in the first place.

The answer is pretty much no. The top tiers are staying as they were. It was a statement we have said in the past and we have to honour our promises. Besides, I don't think short hop laser is at all an issue. You have many ways to deal with it especially with all of the tools we gave the PM cast.

 

[PEEF!]

When people complain about laser spam they just need to get better. I'm not going to be able to say it any nicer to people who cannot handle beatable tactics. He has asked this kind of stuff before, I'm not blowing up on a first time offender.

@SB: I do complain, but I do not ever think we should nerf any melee characters AT ALL! The whole point is to have other characters be nearly as good as the Melee tops.

Falco is very beatable and is a model of what a good character should be like.

 

[I R MarF]

U R Scrub

thats all there is to it.

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't know people still made fun of screen names these days.

JCaez: it was Trahh.

I hate Falco's laser too but Melee. Maybe after a full Project M release people would be more open to the idea of actually making the game better lol.

yeah, I guess the only issue is if the aspects of Melee characters started recieving tweaks, a huge wave of nerf demands would start flooding in. Then ALR vs L-cancelling would start up again, etc, etc

 

[Vigilante]

Maybe I should add that there are many small stages now in PM, so you can counterpick these to :

1) Hinder his SH-Laser game.
2) Punish his bad recovery.

 

[PEEF!]

Most times large stages punish bad recoveries more than small ones because of the other character's ability to utilize the larger blastzones by living longer. There is certainly a much larger neutral stage list.

 

[Strong Badam]

meh we don't need drama

 

[Vigilante]

Not exactly true Peef. Small stages hurt characters with bad recoveries way more merely because it if more likely that the foes will be thrown off. A great counterpick VS Falco is Metal Cavern.

I used this stage against TH, and man did his movement options feel limited

 

[GHNeko]

You mean Swords Cavern, right?

 

[Vigilante]

Oh god, don't get me started on how Marth is good at this stage, lawl.

 

[PEEF!]

If the character has a non-flexible recovery like Ness then I agree, get them a bit offstage and youre good, but Falco has a quite flexible but short recovery, and any time he can reach, he has a good shot of recovering thru his mixups. If the stage has big blastzones, then Falco won't be able to take advantage of them, and it will be basically as if the blastzones are small for him, but if my character can recover from farther away, then I can utilize that extra space. Net benefit for me.

 

[drsusredfish]

Comparing characters in Brawl to their Project M iterations doesn't really make any sense. They're completely different games.

I understand, but its the only thing i could compare them too. The main point i was trying to make is snake is geting more help than the other two fighters. but the game isn't done yet so that may change.