Project M Social Thread

[Vigilante]

Everything is oppinion, and "better" is up to subjective judgement. But what was can say objectively is that we will have more content, improved balance and canonical new moves on some characters. It enters my definition of better.

@Spoon: I wouldn't play with your heart mate. We have stuff planned for sooner than later to get hype dog back into da house.

 

[metroid1117]

Personally, I think PM has the potential to be better than Melee. What's holding it back for me right now are non-Melee tethers and some Brawl edge hitboxes on some recoveries (such as this and this).

 

[Strong Badam]

the first would have occurred in melee.

 

[JCaesar]

Non-Melee tethers only affects a handful of characters. Sucks for them but meh, not a huuuge effect on the overall gameplay.

 

[hotdogturtle]

?

Based off of the hype that P:M has gotten so far, it's very safe to say that P:M is "a 'better' Melee". Sure, it's not exactly anyone's place to determine whether a modification of a game 15+ months in the making is better than a game with a 10-year old metagame (that's still developing), but look at everything that's happened over the past several months. From vids to the demo to streams - this project has gained not only a lot of common feedback from pros, but also a fairly large fanbase. I, lurking SWF (the smash boards at least) for ages, have never seen such a huge populous for an unreleased hack. A large population is more than capable of turning a simple opinion into a fact or better, common knowledge. Gimpyfish, Kage, many members, myself - generally, everyone who posts in / lurks this thread - have already formulated an opinion about P:M. Needless to say, most of those said opinions are merely "P:M is legit" or something of that nature, but it still contributes to P:M's superiority over Melee.

Don't quote me on this, but the goal of P:M is to recreate the flow and technical reliance of Melee while keeping things "fresh", so to speak, with a dramatically enlarged cast and more balanced gameplay, i.e; more characters + viable characters. Of course this doesn't mean that every aspect of the game is better than Melee, as it's still just a hack (unless you guys plan on selling codesets to lazy coders ). Saying that P:M "still has a lot to prove" is just like me saying that Justin Bieber looks, sounds and probably smells like a 12-year old girl. It's an opinion when it comes out, but because a fair amount of people think similarly, it's nothing new to the typical person.

Er, please don't attack me
#back to lurking

What that shows is that P:M can, and possibly will, be better than Melee when it comes out. But the mere fact that it's an incomplete mod and a work in progress means that you shouldn't give it that title yet. Saying it's a "better game" isn't true because technically it isn't a "game" yet (that's what we'll call it when it's completed and released).

So for now, just look forward to watching the development of what will turn into the best Smash game yet.

 

[Psycho Waffle]

Non-Melee tethers only affects a handful of characters. Sucks for them but meh, not a huuuge effect on the overall gameplay.

But are you guys still trying to make melee tethers or is it impossible?

 

[PEEF!]

Hey guys, earlier today fellow PMBR members Gimpyfish and Fly Amanita were part of a livestream broadcast titled Melee State of the Game. This is a broadcast started by PEEF in an effort to gain followers and discuss the current metagame of Super Smash Bros. Melee with high level players.
Today, Gimpyfish and Fly were special guests, and while much of the subject matter was indeed Melee, good ol' Gimpyfish led the discussion to Project M from around 54 minutes to 1 hr 8 minutes (14 minutes total). If you're interested, here's the broadcast. If you like what you hear, consider becoming a follower to Peef's Twitch broadcast channel!

Thanks,

Strong Bad

Awesome post and link!

Peef sounded like he was uninterested and just trying to politely end the conversation for the whole second half of the discussion.

Are you being serious?

that's peef for ya

Are YOU being serious? How, after watching that, could you possibly think that I was uninterested when I literally said that it made me super excited about P:M when I previously wasn't, I asked for the details of how to become a tester, etc. I dedicated over a third of my damn show to P:M and LOVED the discussion of it. I had scheduled it for 2 hrs but it ended up being 3, so it had to end at some point. I didn't namesearch to get here. I came to this thread hoping that the broadcast had been linked and there had been some discussion. I was first happy then sad.

Anyway I'm going to apply =]]

 

[MonkUnit]

Good show, peef. I really enjoyed that segment. (I didn't see anyof the other parts because I'm on my mobile)

 

[Beorn4200]

Personally, I think PM has the potential to be better than Melee. What's holding it back for me right now are non-Melee tethers and some Brawl edge hitboxes on some recoveries (such as this and this).

I think it's a sad bias that ALL the new techs viable character stages and up coming polish don
t make it better by default ... Saying that it won't be better until these relatively small things are fixed makes me think that no matter what unless it has every small aspect of melee in it, it will never be better in some peoples eyes...

I don't see why the things it already clearly has over melee don't already push it into the realm of better.

I LOVE melee ... I have played it since the day it came out, and have been playing it competitively for the last few years... But come on.... Tethers on a few characters and some wonky ledge grab boxes in no way beat out balance, huge amounts of viable stages, and tons of new characters and techs.... For me at least.

 

[Strong Badam]

i expected you would post so I trolled you peef. it was obvious there were other things on the agenda and PM wasn't expected so you had to get things going. any decent broadcaster would have done the same.
hopefully I got you some followers though.

 

[Rikana]

After staring at strong bad's avatar, I went back to my thought of "what if dk can jc after downb makes contact?" I'm sure it's been brought up before but I think you guys should experiment with that. His downb isn't shine-like fast so it's probably situational. It'll be a nice gimmick for him.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys could do podcasts for PM and get the devs and good playtesters in the same voice chat and discuss things.

That would probably be really productive

 

[hotdogturtle]

Are YOU being serious? How, after watching that, could you possibly think that I was uninterested when I literally said that it made me super excited about P:M when I previously wasn't, I asked for the details of how to become a tester, etc. I dedicated over a third of my damn show to P:M and LOVED the discussion of it. I had scheduled it for 2 hrs but it ended up being 3, so it had to end at some point. I didn't namesearch to get here. I came to this thread hoping that the broadcast had been linked and there had been some discussion. I was first happy then sad.

Anyway I'm going to apply =]]

I saw that, I just got the impression that you thought that Gimpyfish was rambling on for too long and you wanted him to stop talking. Not that you actually disliked P:M.

 

[Stevo]

After staring at strong bad's avatar, I went back to my thought of "what if dk can jc after downb makes contact?" I'm sure it's been brought up before but I think you guys should experiment with that. His downb isn't shine-like fast so it's probably situational. It'll be a nice gimmick for him.

I think it would look/feel a little strange...

personally I think if you want to be able to combo off it better, you could just reduce the ending animation. (as far as I know DK has a relatively lengthy end animation when you stop the down-b animation loop)

and even then, perhaps this was already done by giving him brawl down-b or something of the sort.

I do agree down-b should be more useful then it was in melee, however.

 

[Revven]

It already is more useful since it's Brawl's down B.

 

[Tlock]

Non-Melee tethers only affects a handful of characters. Sucks for them but meh, not a huuuge effect on the overall gameplay.

Are you going to do anything to Samus to compensate her for loosing that? From the few videos that are out she appears to be unchanged. Seems bad for a mid tier to loose one of the abilities that gave her the best recovery in the game on most stages.

Oh and super wavedash?...

/attempt to get the conversation off people wanting an updated version to be released to the public.

 

[Rikana]

I think it would look/feel a little strange...

personally I think if you want to be able to combo off it better, you could just reduce the ending animation. (as far as I know DK has a relatively lengthy end animation when you stop the down-b animation loop)

and even then, perhaps this was already done by giving him brawl down-b or something of the sort.

I do agree down-b should be more useful then it was in melee, however.

Cutting down the animation works as well. Don't know why I didn't think of that.

Edit: Samus has her SWD. She has her zair as a poke with insane range..

 

[PEEF!]

I saw that, I just got the impression that you thought that Gimpyfish was rambling on for too long and you wanted him to stop talking. Not that you actually disliked P:M.

Haha IDK I think I generally push onto the next topic at the right time.

I hope that we brought some good attention to P:M, I just applied to be a tester!

 

[GP&B]

Tether Zairs do have good offensive utility which is pretty nice. If there was ever a breakthrough though, I would die for Melee grapples. They're better in every way possible.

 

[Tlock]

If there was ever a breakthrough though, I would die for Melee grapples.

Indeed. I do think they would keep Olimar's and ZSS tether recovery like they are, just change Link, YLinks and Samus's back to Melee's grapple.

But just some wishful thinking as I have accepted this is extremely unlikely to happen.

 

[Spoon~]

Are you going to do anything to Samus to compensate her for loosing that? From the few videos that are out she appears to be unchanged. Seems bad for a mid tier to loose one of the abilities that gave her the best recovery in the game on most stages.

Oh and super wavedash?...

/attempt to get the conversation off people wanting an updated version to be released to the public.

Swd is there still. Her usmash ***** now too, dont assume she's unchanged. =p

 

[Stevo]

It already is more useful since it's Brawl's down B.

I figured, I just don't know enough about brawl to have answered with 100% certainty. (nor have I played non-demo P:M)

 

[hotdogturtle]

Link's recovery is also hurt, because not only did he lose his wall grapple, it's also shorter than it was in Melee (blame Brawl for that).

I know that they give him more range on his up-B, I just hope that it's enough.

 

[Beorn4200]

Link's recovery is also hurt, because not only did he lose his wall grapple, it's also shorter than it was in Melee (blame Brawl for that).

I know that they give him more range on his up-B, I just hope that it's enough.

I would say not... Hookshot was almost always the best idea when recovering... For me at least...


Skler's link guide...

Sweet spot hookshot. Recover from far out with the hookshot until they start jumping out to stop it. This is the best way to recover if there is an opponent trying to edge guard from the stage. It also gets the most distance on stages that aren't FD or Yoshi's story.

UpB. The upB is my backup plan, I'll only use it if I'm against an aggressive edge guarder. It will end up making the other person dead a bit of the time if they try jumping out against it. The upB is best when used against a wall so you can tech whatever they do to you.

Recover low with the hookshot. Not many characters can hit Link when he recovers low with the hookshot. This is weak against people who edge guard from the stage, as you are vulnerable to things like Marth's fsmash as you try and reach the edge. Know how to edge tech.

Hookshot feint, aka hookshot and fastfall during the animation. This decreases the range of your hookshot, but it is still an effective way to get out of an edge guarder's way. You also get to hit them with the hookshot, which makes an extremely satisfying "Thwack" sound.

The insta-sweetspot hookshot. This is difficult to do, but when it happens it is incredible. The hookshot will occasionally let you sweetspot the edge if you hit near the top and reel in quickly. I'm not entirely sure why this happens or where you need to hit, but my experiences say hitting near the top of the edge causes this to happen more often than hitting low. This is a great way to turn things around on edge guarders or freak out people who are standing too close to the edge. Eventually you'll develop a sort of feel for when this works and you will notice people stop jumping out at you as often.


It's sad when more than 3 4ths of the links recovery section is about how great melee tether is... and how Up-B should be used as a backup. Makes me worry about how bad link's gonna get ****ed off stage now.

 

[GPDP]

Well, to be fair, at least Link has a much better on-stage game now to compensate.

Also, I just learned how to do that thing where you run toward the ledge in Yoshi's Story, Up-B as you're falling off, and catch the ledge. It's not as useful as I thought it'd be, but it's freakin' sweet. Can Link do this in Project M?

 

[hotdogturtle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jte702MKJKs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbz6qsfJ0aQ

=(

 

[iLink]

Well, to be fair, at least Link has a much better on-stage game now to compensate.

Also, I just learned how to do that thing where you run toward the ledge in Yoshi's Story, Up-B as you're falling off, and catch the ledge. It's not as useful as I thought it'd be, but it's freakin' sweet. Can Link do this in Project M?

You can do that on any ledge and not just Yoshi's Story.

And yes he can.

 

[slimpyman]

Im going to re-apply again... chicago needs a PM rep badly. if not me, you gotta get someone in from the area. PM is such an abstract thought lately, that if i hadnt played it for myself, id consider it fiction.

Though most of the nitty gritty is done by magus and stuff, there wouldnt be anyone opposed to throwing in and exchanging some sound bytes aside from the melee hitsounds right? like mario and his WOop hop sound (miss it while he wavedashes... just like samus hop sound from melee)

 

[Revven]

Um... we can't do that because that is riivolution exclusive... that would be custom sfx that we can't force on people due to there being a split of gecko os users and riivo users.

Something you'll have to deal with, unfortunately.

 

[Beorn4200]

Well, to be fair, at least Link has a much better on-stage game now to compensate.

Also, I just learned how to do that thing where you run toward the ledge in Yoshi's Story, Up-B as you're falling off, and catch the ledge. It's not as useful as I thought it'd be, but it's freakin' sweet. Can Link do this in Project M?

To be fair.... No one, especially not link... Needs there recovery nerfed from melee.

I know nothing can be done at the moment.... Still lame that sakurai thought it would be a good idea to shorten only links tether for grab range and ledge grab range... That's just plain ****ty of him...

 

[jalued]

To be fair.... No one, especially not link... Needs there recovery nerfed from melee.

I know nothing can be done at the moment.... Still lame that sakurai thought it would be a good idea to shorten only links tether for grab range and ledge grab range... That's just plain ****ty of him...

its more shocking that they could be so lazy with brawl tethers...

 

[Wavebuster]

Brawl tethers are great for edgehogging from a distance when your character isn't 100% reliant on them to recover.

 

[jalued]

Brawl tethers are great for edgehogging from a distance when your character isn't 100% reliant on them to recover.

true, but they are also very inflexible, 1 dimensional and easily edgehogged, relative to melee tethers

 

[hotdogturtle]

Though most of the nitty gritty is done by magus and stuff, there wouldnt be anyone opposed to throwing in and exchanging some sound bytes aside from the melee hitsounds right? like mario and his WOop hop sound (miss it while he wavedashes... just like samus hop sound from melee)

Um... we can't do that because that is riivolution exclusive... that would be custom sfx that we can't force on people due to there being a split of gecko os users and riivo users.

Something you'll have to deal with, unfortunately.

Well someone outside of the PMBR could just do it as a volunteer project and provide it to anyone who's interested.

 

[PEEF!]

So now that I'm trying to involve myself with this project M thing, is it true that I don't have to hack my Wii to play? Ive heard this is the case, and if it's true that would be awesome!

 

[Juushichi]

Nope, you don't have to do that with any smash mod at this point. I heard it has to do with stack smash (which is coded into the mods now), but my Wii is already modded so I can't completely speak about it.

 

[Dark Sonic]

So now that I'm trying to involve myself with this project M thing, is it true that I don't have to hack my Wii to play? Ive heard this is the case, and if it's true that would be awesome!

http://projectm.dantarion.com/downloads/

Of course if you're a play tester you'll have a more updated version of P:M, but the loading process will be the same.

Note that you'll have to delete all of your custom stages to use this method (including the ones that came with brawl).

 

[MaxThunder]

^^well you don't really have to delete them... if you want to save your custom stages, just move them over to another sd card... or move them to the same sd card as you have stacksmash... but then you'll need to rename the folder they're in so stacksmash can be left alone in it's own custom stage folder...

 

[Evilagram]

For tether recoveries, has anyone tried making it so that the move fires twice when you hit Up+B? Or that it fires twice if it hits someone? Like, you are recovering and someone is on the ledge, you hit up+B to tether, hit them, both of you fall off, they recover easy, versus hitting them, they fall off, the character automatically tethers again, and grabs the ledge. Alternatively, let the character just use up B twice in the air (Although I still have bad memories of the flying ivysaur from B+)

Is this possible, and does it sound like a good idea?

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Are you guys going to update the Project M website with anything other than the reversions?