Project M Social Thread

[Shadic]

At some point, yes.

 

[Strong Badam]

Are you guys going to update the Project M website with anything other than the reversions?

why wouldn't we...?

 

[DVDV28]

He's probably unsure just because it's taken a while.

Also will there be an official vertex import thingie to accompany it? I miss the smaller bowser.

 

[Ecks]

reversions

That's the opposite of what they are.


Speaking ot tethers, is zamus keeping both side b and up b tethers?

 

[MonkUnit]

He's probably unsure just because it's taken a while.

Also will there be an official vertex import thingie to accompany it? I miss the smaller bowser.

Textures, songs, etc. that are not included in the releases, will always be optional.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

why wouldn't we...?

Because nothing's been touched since the last demo?

 

[Strong Badam]

we made the website specifically for our first release. it's logical then that it would be updated before the next one.

 

[DVDV28]

Textures, songs, etc. that are not included in the releases, will always be optional.

Sorry, I meant alongside, not within the actual pack.

 

[smashbro29]

I heard rumor of something they have planned for "soon". I'm excited. But I know I shouldn't be!!

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

?

Based off of the hype that P:M has gotten so far, it's very safe to say that P:M is "a 'better' Melee". Sure, it's not exactly anyone's place to determine whether a modification of a game 15+ months in the making is better than a game with a 10-year old metagame (that's still developing), but look at everything that's happened over the past several months. From vids to the demo to streams - this project has gained not only a lot of common feedback from pros, but also a fairly large fanbase. I, lurking SWF (the smash boards at least) for ages, have never seen such a huge populous for an unreleased hack. A large population is more than capable of turning a simple opinion into a fact or better, common knowledge. Gimpyfish, Kage, many members, myself - generally, everyone who posts in / lurks this thread - have already formulated an opinion about P:M. Needless to say, most of those said opinions are merely "P:M is legit" or something of that nature, but it still contributes to P:M's superiority over Melee.

Don't quote me on this, but the goal of P:M is to recreate the flow and technical reliance of Melee while keeping things "fresh", so to speak, with a dramatically enlarged cast and more balanced gameplay, i.e; more characters + viable characters. Of course this doesn't mean that every aspect of the game is better than Melee, as it's still just a hack (unless you guys plan on selling codesets to lazy coders ). Saying that P:M "still has a lot to prove" is just like me saying that Justin Bieber looks, sounds and probably smells like a 12-year old girl. It's an opinion when it comes out, but because a fair amount of people think similarly, it's nothing new to the typical person.

Er, please don't attack me
#back to lurking

Sorry for late reply.

I disagree, I guess it's a matter of diferentiating definions/opinions. The thing is, P:M isn't even finished yet, there are still tons of things to fix and my guess is that it's gonna take at least a year before we see the final release (not talking about the patch here and probably there are still things to fix even after year). Melee on the other hand is a 10-year-old game that many gamers say to be the best game ever, even after so much time it hasn't lost its' addictiveness. Even if P:M was "technically" better , meaning more content and new stuff (which it is not because the physics engine is incomplete and there are bugs and things missing like tethers) it would STILL need to replace Melee in terms of popularity/interest in order to ever claim even to be remotely close as good as Melee is. I know these are harsh words but this is how a feel, the throne of the best game ever in the hearts of so many is not going to easily replaced.

BUT

Do I think P:M is going to surpass Melee?

Absolutely.

Why?

Because P:M is improving constantly whereas Melee doesn't change, also people are hungry for new characters and content after 10 freaking years.

I'm really interested so see whether mid/low-tier players are going rise above the other pros when P:M becomes a competitive standard (I believe it will so stfu), we already see Kage winning tournaments with his main improved.

What about Link? Pikachu? Kirby?

Oh the possibilities : 9

 

[Crispy4001]

From El Duderino's posts in this thread in Brawl General:

Bear in sheep skin. Get hype.

 

[PEEF!]

Man this project is so exciting, just went through all of the content on smods.

LOVING the bowser changes. Really made him into the kind of character that bowser should be.

I can't wait to play this.

Also something that you guys might discuss. Once you think youve got the game all balanced out, how often will you be patching? It seems like the less often you patch the better, because it allows the metagame to evolve instead of just getting autocorrected. However, you wouldnt want M to slide back to being as unbalanced as the other smash games have. Just a question to think about...

 

[Shadic]

Pretty sure unless there's some major gamebreaking glitch that makes a character even less balanced than VBrawl MK that the game will be more balanced than Melee.

We haven't ironed out any concrete details for post-release patching yet. (We're not even there.) Despite that, I'm quite confident that any patching done to Project M post-release would be a rare occurrence. That's all that can really be said at this point in time. Our goal is not to control the development of the metagame and tailor it to our whims after the game has launched.

 

[Strong Badam]

We've generally learned from the mistakes of Brawl+, where changes were made monthly or even more frequently, to where a metagame wasn't even able to be developed cuz everything was being changed and what's good today could be **** the next month. So probably only 1 or 2 patches afterward, since we don't have the ability to say "Hey, your version's out of date! Want to update?" whenever someone loads up PM on their Wii like other fighting games or modern FPS games do.

 

[DVDV28]

From what I gather it's (ignoring the demo)

1. Establish a play style for each character
2. Get each character able to play in that style
3. Release
4. Watch people play and use these new points of view to work out what could be done to improve the characters' ability to play in their styles.
5. Make the improvements
6. Repeat step 4 for 6 months or so (or until something game-breaking pops up)
7. Release
8. Repeat 5-7 as much as deemed appropriate

 

[Supreme Dirt]

All I know is that so long as TL doesn't become some super aggressive Falco clone I'm completely happy with P:M.

Somehow I think the odds of me getting my wish are pretty damn high.

 

[Ecks]

From El Duderino's posts in this thread in Brawl General:

Bear in sheep skin. Get hype.

Is the handicapped sheep a reference to tripping?

As for the current discussion, best thing to do is watch the game's tourney results for a year and based on that, decide if a tweak here or there is necessary for a character or whatever it is that needs fixing.

 

[PEEF!]

That sounds like the right attitude.

So if I wanted to get started playing, how out of date is the Feb Release? Is it worth playing or has too much changed even with the available characters.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

It's not worth playing at all.

It's like night and day.

 

[Shadic]

It's an interesting relic to show how far we've come in a year.

 

[PEEF!]

It's an interesting relic to show how far we've come in a year.

haha okay then.

I'll just wait to hopefully be a playtester of the most current version.

 

[Divinokage]

We've generally learned from the mistakes of Brawl+, where changes were made monthly or even more frequently, to where a metagame wasn't even able to be developed cuz everything was being changed and what's good today could be **** the next month. So probably only 1 or 2 patches afterward, since we don't have the ability to say "Hey, your version's out of date! Want to update?" whenever someone loads up PM on their Wii like other fighting games or modern FPS games do.

Almost like SF4, then SSF4, then SSF4:AE then AE 2012.. omg.. lol.

 

[SolarChimecho]

Almost like SF4, then SSF4, then SSF4:AE then AE 2012.. omg.. lol.

The only difference is that Capcom is worst at balancing than Sakurai. They nerf(or over-nerfed) characters for no reason and doesnt address some of the characters weakness in the SF4 series currently.

 

[Dark Sonic]

More important difference is that P:M is free.

 

[Rikana]

^

Its technically not. We paid with brain-damaged people who tried out brawl.

 

[Evilagram]

So if I wanted to get started playing, how out of date is the Feb Release? Is it worth playing or has too much changed even with the available characters.

It's not worth playing at all.

It's like night and day.

I know I've been asking this for a while, but do plans even exist for a newer release before final release? I'm still playing the Feb release because I don't want to go back to Brawl+

 

[Crooked Crow]

More important difference is that P:M is free.

Providing you have an SD card, yes.

 

[hotdogturtle]

"The Patch", a mythical, god-like entity which may or may not exist, is supposedly (most likely) going to come out before the full game. We're just waiting for it to finally come back and save us all.

 

[GP&B]

Honestly, my main concern balance-wise is that every character should be tournament-viable. Even just having bottom tier P:M be comparable to mid tier Melee would be amazing.

 

[MechaWave]

A tier list for P:M, unlike the other games, would actually be created by tournament results, rather than a combination of the latter and a character's matchups among other things.

For example, Pichu is the worst character in Melee because of tournament results, its attributes and matchups (and other things.) This wouldn't necessarily be the case in P:M.

I'm guessing when P:M is finished and there are more tournaments with P:M the PMBR will make a tier list or something. And an actual ruleset.

 

[foshio]

Is liveryspecks still a play tester? I havent seen anything on his youtube in a long time...

 

[DVDV28]

Pichu was bottom tier because it was a stupid idea. In exchange for being damaged with every electric move, (s)he did marginally more damage.

 

[PEEF!]

Watching the bowser video was AWESOME because of how bowserly he now truly is. Crouchwalking through lasers, thats just so Bowser (yet not at all like any bowser we have seen!).

I'm concerned that there might not be enough attention given to the characters who were already good in Melee. Will Falco me made somehow more "falcoey", or because he was good already, are you trying to keep him how he was in Melee, for the sake of integrity?

I honestly see a good case for both sides. What is the vision for the top tier melee characters??

 

[Shadic]

Our current goal is to get Melee top tiers are going to stay extremley to their Melee selves, with very little exception.

Such exceptions are moves like Falco's rapid jab, which is still Brawl's because it keep Falco feeling less "cloney" with Fox, and it's not a terribly important move in his moveset.

More game-relevant changes would be Falcon/Ganon having their ledgegrab boxes in proper locations for their UpBs, and being able to grab the ledge from their SideBs.

 

[Alex19]

there was even a time when Lucky, Alex19 & Mango were playtesters. they eventually quit due to focusing on Melee but they seemed to enjoy it, so I'm sure when we get a more complete product out they'll be back =)

we actually plan on playing again my lucas was AMAZING and joey had a decent charizard, and mango ***** us with falcon and fox lol

joey just needs to fix his Wii

 

[JCaesar]

Our current goal is to get Melee top tiers are going to stay extremley to their Melee selves, with very little exception.

To translate this into English...

Melee top/high tiers have received very few if any changes. Think of them as our "control group" for balancing purposes. We know where they stand and can balance new characters around this, instead of having to make it up as we go and hope everything falls into place (like Brawl+).

 

[PEEF!]

Our current goal is to get Melee top tiers are going to stay extremley to their Melee selves, with very little exception.

Such exceptions are moves like Falco's rapid jab, which is still Brawl's because it keep Falco feeling less "cloney" with Fox, and it's not a terribly important move in his moveset.

More game-relevant changes would be Falcon/Ganon having their ledgegrab boxes in proper locations for their UpBs, and being able to grab the ledge from their SideBs.

I do like all of that. ^^

So where do you draw the line as far as keeping characters the same? Having not tested yet and just going by what I have seen/read on the site, it seems that jiggs has been made more jiggslike (ground game nerf?) and ganon has been made more ganonlike. Will sheik keep her chaingrab game? About where on the tier list do you figure it's time to buff?

 

[OmegaMuffin]

I do like all of that. ^^

So where do you draw the line as far as keeping characters the same? Having not tested yet and just going by what I have seen/read on the site, it seems that jiggs has been made more jiggslike (ground game nerf?) and ganon has been made more ganonlike. Will sheik keep her chaingrab game? About where on the tier list do you figure it's time to buff?

I believe the top 5 are remaining relatively the same. The characters following are the ones buffed with each buff increasing in effectiveness as you go down the list.

 

[Rikana]

Shiek has pal dthrow.

we actually plan on playing again my lucas was AMAZING and joey had a decent charizard, and mango ***** us with falcon and fox lol

joey just needs to fix his Wii

Fix faster please. Looking forward to some videos.

 

[OmegaMuffin]

Shiek has pal dthrow.

On someone's stream, Sheik had PAL Sheik.