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Project M Social Thread Gold

Pickledpotatoes

Pickledpotatoes

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Praxis said:
Egg roll doesn't have an aerial hitbox, actually. He tried it a couple times, I'd up-B him on reaction if I saw an aerial egg roll.

After I'd killed him with footstools, he started recovering with a nair out. I'd use my second jump to move back, and he was committed to the nair and I'd get a hard punish.

So now he has to worry about the footstool and can't really commit to an aerial, so he started responding to the footstool threat by pulling back on his second jump every time I jumped off stage without using my second jump. As soon as he'd pull back, I'd start charging up-B. If he egg rolls, release up-B on reaction. If he airdodges, angle up-B and release on reaction to get a "meaty" up-B hit. (If I hit him with the back of up-B, it tosses him back offstage.)


It looks like this:
http://gfycat.com/DangerousSorrowfulFlies



I'm really good at option coverage on recovery, which is why I throw a fit every time someone whines about certain recoveries being too good (like Diddy's). I'm not sure how I feel about tether recoveries, I feel like some characters can completely wreck them (Metaknight, Diddy) and other characters have no options to stop them (Roy lol).
Click to expand...
The reason I said "should've egg-rolled" is because if someone tries to footstool Yoshi when he's in the egg (correct me if I'm wrong) they'll just jump on it while Yoshi keeps rolling along unaffected. This is definitely his best counter to footstools if you think you're foe's going try one, but as you said, it has no hitbox so he can easily get hit. When it comes down to it it's as simple as who can get the right read or lucky guess.
 
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Gamegenie222

Gamegenie222

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Praxis said:
http://gfycat.com/WellgroomedElectricBeagle

From a grand finals.

I feel like I've made @ TheReflexWonder TheReflexWonder and @ DMG DMG proud.

Praxis said:
Egg roll doesn't have an aerial hitbox, actually. He tried it a couple times, I'd up-B him on reaction if I saw an aerial egg roll.

After I'd killed him with footstools, he started recovering with a nair out. I'd use my second jump to move back, and he was committed to the nair and I'd get a hard punish.

So now he has to worry about the footstool and can't really commit to an aerial, so he started responding to the footstool threat by pulling back on his second jump every time I jumped off stage without using my second jump. As soon as he'd pull back, I'd start charging up-B. If he egg rolls, release up-B on reaction. If he airdodges, angle up-B and release on reaction to get a "meaty" up-B hit. (If I hit him with the back of up-B, it tosses him back offstage.)


It looks like this:
[URL]http://gfycat.com/DangerousSorrowfulFlies
Click to expand...
Praxis said:



I'm really good at option coverage on recovery, which is why I throw a fit every time someone whines about certain recoveries being too good (like Diddy's). I'm not sure how I feel about tether recoveries, I feel like some characters can completely wreck them (Metaknight, Diddy) and other characters have no options to stop them (Roy lol).
Click to expand...
Full set here.[/URL]
Click to expand...
Damn all these knowledge drops lol. I can learn a thing or two from you lol. Also how is the Diddy vs Roy MU anyway, I've never played it before cause my diddy experience is very scarce and if I did play it I would go Marth or Zelda?

Also leaving this here to describe these gifs.
 
DMG

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If Yoshi is lower, or further away when the footstool is threatened though, that's generally not a valid option for handling it. Although that Diddy Upb edgeguard looks pretty sick even without the footstool threat. That was very smart.

Edit: (Tried to do this in my orig edit, gave me DP instead :()

Diddy vs Roy MU stuffz: I'd probably watch Sethlon vs MDVA. Basically a cluster of Diddy Kangs vs the fiery beast
 
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DMG

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Edit: weird dp, my other tab still hasn't refreshed from when I made my edit. Ignore
 
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TheReflexWonder

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It's impressive! You put people in uncomfortable positions they're not ready for, and that is how you get the most out of your strings.
 
trash?

trash?

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told y'all when this convo popped up in tier list speculation, footstool's existence forces a 50/50 on yoshi, because in order to reasonably get out of footstool potential via aerials/eggs, he loses the armor in his jump and can be easily hit off into purgatory, meaning he has to guess to stay alive at all

s'pretty good
 
Vashimus

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Footstools are unblockable too, right? It'd practically shut down Yoshi's egg parrying if that gets added back in.
 
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Praxis

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Gamegenie222 said:
Damn all these knowledge drops lol. I can learn a thing or two from you lol. Also how is the Diddy vs Roy MU anyway, I've never played it before cause my diddy experience is very scarce and if I did play it I would go Marth or Zelda?

Also leaving this here to describe these gifs.
Click to expand...
I think Diddy trashes Roy pretty hard overall, but there's a lot of really solid subtleties that Roy can get down to make Diddy look free if Diddy doesn't know the matchup.

For example, Roy's fsmash makes Diddy's recovery look SOOOO free. If Diddy is going for the ledge, fsmash basically beats everything that isn't perfectly sweetspotted. So if Diddy is below the stage lip, what you can do is edgehog (forcing Diddy to keep holding his charge) then immediately stand hop on to the stage and start charging fsmash. Diddy is now screwed because he's held his charge too long to sweetspot (he will overshoot) and you're charging an fsmash.

If Diddy starts charging his up-B from away from the ledge, the same deal still applies- if he's aiming at the sweetspot, edgehog or fake out an edgehog but immediately get off the ledge once he's held his charge. You don't want to charge your fsmash (because then he'll aim high), but you can wavedash fsmash to chase wherever he's going to go with his up-B.

I get really scared offstage vs my crewmate's Roy, and Diddy's fall speed gets him combo'd in to fsmash a lot. Diddy is the 5th fastest faller in the game so there's all kinds of stupid combos on him. I'm very sure my crewmate would completely annihilate the average Diddy Kong player.

However, overall...Roy still loses pretty hard if the Diddy knows the matchup well. Diddy's got a much better neutral game as Roy doesn't have the speed to keep Diddy from getting his naners in play (this is why Falcon does better), and Diddy can edgeguard the crap out of him (peanut > agt banana > edgehog for two projectiles and a covered ledge), and Diddy also has some pretty solid combos. 60:40 Diddy IMO.

Zelda does okay, but I wouldn't go to her as a counterpick. I feel Diddy overall outspaces her as a character, but she's got really good ways of dealing with his naner game (teledash picks up grounded bananas and you can teleAGT by airdodging up as you cross a banana and C-sticking the next frame, and there's the neutral B). But Diddy can edgeguard Zelda hard by going deep and cover her options well. I think that MU is even.

Marth is probably even too. He gets his fastfaller combos and has the speed to keep Diddy from getting his naners out effectively, but Diddy with a naner in hand cuts down all his approaches and Diddy can punish him pretty hard too.


EDIT:

DMG said:
If Yoshi is lower, or further away when the footstool is threatened though, that's generally not a valid option for handling it. Although that Diddy Upb edgeguard looks pretty sick even without the footstool threat. That was very smart.

Edit: (Tried to do this in my orig edit, gave me DP instead :()

Diddy vs Roy MU stuffz: I'd probably watch Sethlon vs MDVA. Basically a cluster of Diddy Kangs vs the fiery beast
Click to expand...
Yeah, I had to fight a really good Yoshi in winners finals then grand finals, ended up getting to do three 3/5 sets, and neither of us knew the opposing matchup, so there was so much on the fly adaptation. I started figuring out/perfecting the up-B edgeguard in the middle of the second set. It's really surprisingly effective on Yoshi to just start charging up-B as soon as his invincibility is gone, and the footstool threat is just one way to make him wary to jump in to the stage too fast.

Yoshi practically zero-death's Diddy off of one touch, especially on FD, because uptilt literally combos in to almost everything he has, and so does his dthrow, and he's got valid edgeguards (put an egg in the sweetspot arc to force Diddy to hold a charge, then dtilt him if he goes for the ledge because now he can't sweetspot, forcing Diddy to go high, where you can nair or fair or fsmash him), so it's nice to have something solid on him -_- I'm not really sure who the MU favors.
 
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OSCA MIKE

OSCA MIKE

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captain falcon is the most badass ************, i have him as my ringtone
unfortunately me playing him so much seems to have skewed any chance at picking other characters, cause i keep trying to look for other falcon-like characters, then i end up trying to play samus like falcon

oh well, i always have falcon

ssb64 falcon punch has been a dream of mine since forever
imagine, knee>punch, knee>knee>punch, knee>knee>knee>punch (super easy sacred combos yay), uair strings>punch
plus your b-reversal shenanigans too

pls pmbr

also praxis that gif definitely looks like youre about to vomit lol
 
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PMS | Tink-er

PMS | Tink-er

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Falcon is so swole, get rekt son.
HYEZ used to be my notification, but it bothered errebody so I changed it back to Kim Possible's thingy. It's still my Skype notification though.
 
Gamegenie222

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Praxis said:
I think Diddy trashes Roy pretty hard overall, but there's a lot of really solid subtleties that Roy can get down to make Diddy look free if Diddy doesn't know the matchup.

For example, Roy's fsmash makes Diddy's recovery look SOOOO free. If Diddy is going for the ledge, fsmash basically beats everything that isn't perfectly sweetspotted. So if Diddy is below the stage lip, what you can do is edgehog (forcing Diddy to keep holding his charge) then immediately stand hop on to the stage and start charging fsmash. Diddy is now screwed because he's held his charge too long to sweetspot (he will overshoot) and you're charging an fsmash.

If Diddy starts charging his up-B from away from the ledge, the same deal still applies- if he's aiming at the sweetspot, edgehog or fake out an edgehog but immediately get off the ledge once he's held his charge. You don't want to charge your fsmash (because then he'll aim high), but you can wavedash fsmash to chase wherever he's going to go with his up-B.

I get really scared offstage vs my crewmate's Roy, and Diddy's fall speed gets him combo'd in to fsmash a lot. Diddy is the 5th fastest faller in the game so there's all kinds of stupid combos on him. I'm very sure my crewmate would completely annihilate the average Diddy Kong player.

However, overall...Roy still loses pretty hard if the Diddy knows the matchup well. Diddy's got a much better neutral game as Roy doesn't have the speed to keep Diddy from getting his naners in play (this is why Falcon does better), and Diddy can edgeguard the crap out of him (peanut > agt banana > edgehog for two projectiles and a covered ledge), and Diddy also has some pretty solid combos. 60:40 Diddy IMO.

Zelda does okay, but I wouldn't go to her as a counterpick. I feel Diddy overall outspaces her as a character, but she's got really good ways of dealing with his naner game (teledash picks up grounded bananas and you can teleAGT by airdodging up as you cross a banana and C-sticking the next frame, and there's the neutral B). But Diddy can edgeguard Zelda hard by going deep and cover her options well. I think that MU is even.

Marth is probably even too. He gets his fastfaller combos and has the speed to keep Diddy from getting his naners out effectively, but Diddy with a naner in hand cuts down all his approaches and Diddy can punish him pretty hard too.


EDIT:



Yeah, I had to fight a really good Yoshi in winners finals then grand finals, ended up getting to do three 3/5 sets, and neither of us knew the opposing matchup, so there was so much on the fly adaptation. I started figuring out/perfecting the up-B edgeguard in the middle of the second set. It's really surprisingly effective on Yoshi to just start charging up-B as soon as his invincibility is gone, and the footstool threat is just one way to make him wary to jump in to the stage too fast.

Yoshi practically zero-death's Diddy off of one touch, especially on FD, because uptilt literally combos in to almost everything he has, and so does his dthrow, and he's got valid edgeguards (put an egg in the sweetspot arc to force Diddy to hold a charge, then dtilt him if he goes for the ledge because now he can't sweetspot, forcing Diddy to go high, where you can nair or fair or fsmash him), so it's nice to have something solid on him -_- I'm not really sure who the MU favors.
Click to expand...
So pretty much as Roy if they dont sweetspot the ledge F-Smash them.

If below stage lip, edgehog and make him charge so that you get back to the stage and charge F-smash. Same applies from away from the edge and can use wavedash F-Smash as a option.

Diddy falls pretty fast and is combo chow. Also Diddy has better neutral game and is faster than Roy.


Cool thanks for the info and what stages do you tend to go to in that MU against Roy?

Also I use Zelda against spacies along with Roy and Marth and test other people who dont play the MU and Brawl style and lame people out and make them feel dumb.
 
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Praxis

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Gamegenie222 said:
So pretty much as Roy if they dont sweetspot the ledge F-Smash them.

If below stage lip, edgehog and make him charge so that you get back to the stage and charge F-smash. Same applies from away from the edge and can use wavedash F-Smash as a option.

Diddy falls pretty fast and is combo chow. Also Diddy has better neutral game is is faster than Roy.


Cool thanks for the info and what stages do you tend to go to in that MU against Roy?

Also I use Zelda against spacies along with Roy and Marth and test other people who dont play the MU and Brawl style and lame people out and make them feel dumb.
Click to expand...
Basically, you want to take him to WarioWare and Yoshi's Island if he doesn't ban them. Roy'll combo Diddy into an fsmash kill at stupid percentages on Yoshi's Island and the stage is too small for Diddy to really control Roy. And on WarioWare, if you get a banana, uthrow it to the top platform, and Diddy can't get to it. His stage control just doesn't work with that many platforms and that much height, you can always get around him.

But yeah, you pretty much got it. Roy beats the crap out of Diddy if he gets a combo off, but Diddy shouldn't let him get a combo off because of better neutral game and edgeguard game. If the Diddy doesn't know the Roy matchup, you might be able to get in and hit him and kill him really fast.
 
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Soft Serve

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Praxis said:
http://gfycat.com/WellgroomedElectricBeagle

From a grand finals.

I feel like I've made @ TheReflexWonder TheReflexWonder and @ DMG DMG proud.

Full set here.
Click to expand...
What I do to Yoshi's now is even dirtier, honestly. As fox, I jump out to intercept, Press R (my footstool button) then do a shine>turnaround Bair right on top of Yoshi. If I don't get the footstool (missed, or he hit a move) it doesn't come out and I shine Yoshi instead, trading if he hit a move. If He didn't hit a move, The shine takes the first hit of the armor and then the bair knocks him out of his double jump (most of the time).
Yoshi's recovery is so bad
 
Hinichii.ez.™

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Soft Serve said:
What I do to Yoshi's now is even dirtier, honestly. As fox, I jump out to intercept, Press R (my footstool button) then do a shine>turnaround Bair right on top of Yoshi. If I don't get the footstool (missed, or he hit a move) it doesn't come out and I shine Yoshi instead, trading if he hit a move. If He didn't hit a move, The shine takes the first hit of the armor and then the bair knocks him out of his double jump (most of the time).
Yoshi's recovery is so bad
Click to expand...
Giffplz
 
Praxis

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Lizalfos said:
Does his up-b armor function as it did in Brawl or Melee?
Click to expand...
up-B armor? The egg throw functions like Melee.

For his second jump, he has both Brawl and Melee second jumps. If he taps jump he gets a Melee jump (attacking will DJC), if he holds jump he gets his Brawl jump (if he attacks he will still get his full jump distance, so he can do rising armored nairs back on stage). Except now Egg Roll actually gets him some decent forward momentum and he still has his airdodge option, so if Yoshi DI's well, he can usually make it back without his second jump.

Oh and he has the best shield in the game and amazing OOS options since he can now jump OOS, and he's got his bigger Brawl hitboxes on a lot of moves, and an utilt that leads to 80%+ combos on fastfallers including Diddy and spacies and Falcon. -_-

standardtoaster said:
Double jump armor*. It works exactly as it did in melee
Click to expand...
Well no, he has both Melee and Brawl jump options.
 
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Phan7om

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I honestly think Yoshi would be Top 5 if his parry worked like in Melee, and you couldnt footstool his DJ. His option coverage is amazing, long ass grab with neutral-b, good recovery. Eggs really good at controlling space, boomerang/fireball level imo. Amazing combo game, lots of kill options. Bruh... this ***** is good.
 
Hinichii.ez.™

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It was like, how he acted so quickly out of shield. I think to get it, you have to time it 4 frames later, than you would for a prefect shield?
 
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