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trash?

witty/pretty
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M2K just goes to wherever there's competition and money to be had, really

he dropped off the second he felt satisfied that he could beat anyone in the world, so around mid-2013 after he consistently beat salem, and around that same time the other melee gods were getting fiercer and money pots were getting bigger, so logical conclusion
 

DMG

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DMG#931
I'm pretty sure Jason enjoyed Melee more, and did not like having to split time between Brawl and Melee back when he would compete in both events at the same tourneys.
 

Gamegenie222

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The Brawl community arguably has no one but itself to blame for the game's death/drop. I remember when many different ideas were crafted to help the game and garner more interest, but they were usually shot down. MK ban (with more stages legal to offset Ice Climbers), MK + IC ban, 1-2 stock games, etc. Despite those formats and changes having the potential to freshen up the game, and keep some interest, they were almost always shot down without experimentation. People gave Xyro crap for doing MK banned tourneys, but I give him a lot of respect for trying something different. Most people also falsely assume they know how Allan ran those events (Didn't he always ban MK at his events? Wasn't he just doing it to perform better in tourneys? Etc mindless garbage).


Brawl's community and top players were VERY set on using the same ruleset til the game burned out. The last notable change in the ruleset was when Double MK was banned, and the game was already so beat-up that it hardly mattered. An outright MK ban for Doubles was probably warranted years ago, but people in the Smash community are quite bad at articulating decent arguments or accepting good logic. Oh well


Brawl needed something *different*. The current format was not working out, and nobody wanted to be called "scrubby" for changing the rules. Even as someone with a Purple Banner, who legitimately enjoyed that game for the first few years, I say good riddance to Brawl if our community leaders and top players had no issue with keeping the game stale and letting it rot. I don't want to be a part of a game or community that is so foolish and stubborn, to that extreme.
OMG yes this. I remember hearing about Xyro's tourneys for Brawl and always wanted to go there and still want to go to his events cause I respect his views on some things and regarding TOing. As a Brawl back roomer how was the outrage when they unbanned MK back in 2012? I stopped playing smash before the ban and always disliked the idea of backrooms and seems like a top player circle jerk fest and when MK got banned people on traditional FG websites such as SRK and Eventhubs rejoiced and was happy that MK was banned but as soon as he got unbanned people facepalmed with that decision including me especially with we have so much evidence right under our faces to ban MK but didn't. Also about the death of brawl I remember that Supermodel from Paris guy made a thread about New Jersey killing brawl and putting them on blast a while back this year and randoms still asking how to keep brawl alive in the brawl section of the boards and very few saying how to keep it alive.
 

trash?

witty/pretty
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I already yelled a whole bunch in that "new jersey killed brawl" thread tbh

brawl's more than likely going to be permanently dead in the ground. it's already choking to death now that the 3DS version is out
 

DMG

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The problem was that the MK ban was implemented under the Unity Ruleset. Having a united ruleset was a great idea, but putting MK banned in there was not. Most regions didn't want to switch immediately to that ruleset (very few regions had ever experimented and tested MK banned, let alone actually agree with the idea of banning him) and when major series like Apex hosted their own set of rules, it became kind of moot since 99% of tournaments would copy those other national-level rulesets to prepare their players for that environment. Most people back there didn't have a strong opinion about it, but there was mostly dissent on "forcing" MK to be banned.
 
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Soft Serve

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Brawl died in az because the players just stopped showing up to events. At my first few tourneys, it was just pm and brawl, because the az melee players generally only played at smash fests and then the one or two big az events, then cali events of course. This was like 2012 ish? Then pm started to get bigger, and a lot of the top players for brawl quit or moved (kiraflax went to cali, for example). People stopped showing up, Tucson people stopped traveling north to pheonix, the cali brawl players stopped coming over because the events were tiny.
it was only until then that melee had its big resergence with the Evo drive that next summer, and then all the documentary babys and the evo kids started coming for melee/pm only. The melee scene got more active thanks to gems asu weeklies.
For the last like two years we've always said well take brawl sign ups at our big events, and if there is a turnout we will host. Last time we did this, there were 120 people and only 6 signed up for brawl.

I agree with everything said above about the community killing brawl. The do have smash 4, but that game is going to be a lot different than all other smash games imo. The ledge changes change everything, shifts the risk/reward of comiting to offstage things, makes some characters super free getting back to the ledge, some characters struggle getting stocks because they can't gimp, etc. I really don't like the ledge. The rest of the game is still decent and feels like a better brawl, but **** the ledges man.
 
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Rᴏb

still here, just to suffer
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@Bleck, I don't think it's fair to hold resentment for the melee the community as a whole based on the few ****ty individuals that happen to be part of it, but I sympathize with what you're saying. I've witnessed similar occurrences in my scene where people have gotten mocked/ignored because they were playing brawl/pm, or in my case, for playing as a low tier. Conversely, I'm sure similar occurrences happen with the roles reversed.

Some people just don't have empathy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Hating on them feels right, but I believe laughing it off and leaving them ignorant is a worse punishment.
 
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DMG

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Oh yeah, quick question to anyone who wasn't in the brawl BR: Have they made it public yet? They usually take old BR's and make them publicly viewable so that anyone can see years worth of otherwise privileged discussions. I have a hard time figuring it out since I'm still in it: I saw posts back there about it becoming readable soon (and it's closed from further posting already) so that's why I ask
 
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DMG

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Okie. Figured it wasn't out yet. I checked the archives earlier: they must be running way behind schedule for putting it there. I checked back there and read some of the stuff from way back in the day. Amazing to look back on that
 
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trash?

witty/pretty
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throw some choice posts here

unless an admin frowns on that or something. in which case harass hylian to make it public
 

DMG

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Don't worry, anyone who embarrassed themselves will have it shown in full context very soon! Bwahahahahahaha
 

Hylian

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see my thing is that I think it's unreasonable to ever have expected Nintendo to do anything for the competitive community, 'cause the competitive community has basically nothing to do with Smash Bros.' success

Brawl sold almost twice as many copies as Melee despite it being a "bad game" according to supposed Smash fans, because the large majority, I would argue, of Smash players don't see these games as a competitive fighter (which they've arguably never been intended to be until Smash 4)

the combination of, again, the community being way more insular and contentious than they perceive themselves to be AND the very self-centered opinion that Nintendo is wrong to continue focusing on the player base that they always have is just... yeah, why would they care?

one of the best players at our local tourneys - way better than I am - only started playing Melee two years ago, and literally accuses anyone who likes SSB64 or Brawl (which he's never played) or Project M is a scrub who has no business going to tourneys (you know, to meet people and have fun), and I find the idea that this is the kind of person who Nintendo is supposed to cater to be frankly baffling
Where did I say I expected or anyone should have expected Nintendo to do anything for the competitive community? There is nothing wrong with Nintendo not caring about our community, there IS something wrong with someone trying to get a sponsorship from a company that doesn't care about our community if it means alienating a large portion of the community and removing their game from your roster.
 

hotdogturtle

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You have ~four sentences to convince someone to play competitive Pokemon, go.
The actual gameplay of Pokemon is a turn-based battling system.

Competitive Pokemon just means battling against other human players.

I'm wasting this sentence and I still have 1 to spare.
 

trash?

witty/pretty
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I just saw DoH's signature and I'm genuinely curious as to how... prevalent, that opinion was

like I knew the whole "dead game don't play" trashtalk but I didn't think a lot of TOs went that deeply into wanting melee dead in the ground

@ Hylian Hylian when the hecks is the BBR forum getting archived for public viewing
 

Hylian

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I just saw DoH's signature and I'm genuinely curious as to how... prevalent, that opinion was

like I knew the whole "dead game don't play" trashtalk but I didn't think a lot of TOs went that deeply into wanting melee dead in the ground

@ Hylian Hylian when the hecks is the BBR forum getting archived for public viewing
I have no idea. I stepped down from BBR leadership like two years before it died.
 

trash?

witty/pretty
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...alright I think you've confused me

I just want it public because knowing what "top player/TO" opinions were around brawl's start is interesting to me

can you, in particular, make it public
 

GHNeko

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The community had Brawl on deathrow since launch.

People were too routed in Melee tradition to allow substantial experimentation.

I used to give EVO **** for it, but in hindsight, I respect their decision more now then than to go with such a janky ruleset for EVO 08.

I mean when stage discussion problems started to surface waaaaaaaaaay back when, people had the option of using the built in stage builder to create alternative, viable stages to make up for the jankiness of banned stages. Even if you say the stage builder was limited, you even had Ocarina codes and even WEBSITES that allowed you to create stages that circumvented the restrictions of the in-game stage builder. Giving you more freedom with what you could make.

The most common argument was, "You expect everyone to have an SD card with that one stage on it? That's not possible. That's not viable. It's too hard. Not gonna happen."

And back then, it had no legitimate counter until Brawl+ happened. Until BBrawl happened. Until Brawl- happened. Those mods showed that people could play on a unified/standardized codeset.

And then texture/music modding blew up.

Having a set of custom stages distributed amongst regions was more than possible. It was practically impossible to **** up.

But nah. Never happened.

People remained stubborn and stuck in their ways.
 

DMG

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Where did I say I expected or anyone should have expected Nintendo to do anything for the competitive community? There is nothing wrong with Nintendo not caring about our community, there IS something wrong with someone trying to get a sponsorship from a company that doesn't care about our community if it means alienating a large portion of the community and removing their game from your roster.

In the short term it might suck, but there could certainly be benefits to our grassroots scene getting the "Sponsored by Nintendo" stamp of approval. Imagine having a relationship good enough where we can openly host PM tournaments with their sponsorship. Or getting on their good side for other games so that we can still stream them for Evo/MLG series. They tried to pull the plug before, and with Smash 4 probably have even more of an incentive to not have something like Melee still in the forefront.


PM has always been in that gray area. We can't fault Alex Strife for pursuing an avenue that might end up benefiting the entire Smash scene. I'd rather him get sponsored and see where this goes, than turn down or forgo Nintendo's sponsorship opportunities ("All or nothing" deals would do nothing to sway their opinion on PM. They could quite easily turn the other way, and decide never to sponsor any event that isn't already created and run by the company, AND try to pull the plug on streaming for huge events).


If he's the only TO or series big enough for Nintendo's attention, then so be it. Let the man shoot for the stars! Putting PM on the back-burner doesn't offend me in the least, and it's not a decision that was made to spite our game.
 

GHNeko

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I think the problem people have with Alex and restricting games is that we've yet to see anything to show for his actions.

This is like the 3rd or 4th time this has happened? But has a significant rep from Nintendo ever shown up and said or done anything to validate his choice?

It seems like more of a gamble with unfavorable odds at a huge cost.
 

trash?

witty/pretty
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what's the guarantee that nintendo has a long-term grip on competitive smash? they like to mention they have "long-term interest" in a lot of things for the hardcore crowd, but they rarely, if ever, act upon it. how do we know this isn't going to be a one-off that falters away, to the detriment of everyone in the scene?

also, diggin' through old threads to look up general opinion:

I think after 1 year after Brawl is release there will be no more melee tournies :(
 

GHNeko

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I mean, if nintendo wanted a long-term grip on competitive smash,they'd have no problem taking it.

Like seriously. The community is like that one child starved for affection and will latch on to the first person that gives it to them.

That's why the melee community is so thirsty to get back into EVO.

If Ninty shows the whole smash community love, it'd be a wrap in an instant if not, really really soon.

Providing setups and pot bonuses would probably be all they need.

The only sub-culture that would realistically be immune to that is the PM community, but if Ninty shows us love (even if the form of saying "We wont mess with the PM community.)

It'd probably be a wrap for the PM community too.
 
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trash?

witty/pretty
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I'm laughing really hard at all the locked topics regarding evo 2008

imagine if someone tried to pull what they did at evo today, and you weren't allowed to talk against it
 

TreK

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I quit Brawl when they unbanned MK. And I know I wasn't the only one. So much for keeping the game alive lmao.

Let's not repeat the mistakes of the past.
 

SpiderMad

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None wide screen.

Also that video quality. x_x
Should I stretch the non-widescreen at all? Is there any specific reason(s) why people prefer black lines take up half the screen? Video quality as in?
 
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Strong Badam

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bro mk banned brawl is my fav game i love seeing olimar vs ics or ics vs ics finals instead of mk vs ics
 

GHNeko

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Should I stretch the non-widescreen at all? Is there any specific reason(s) why people prefer black lines take up half the screen? Video quality as in?
Dont stretch it imo unless you can retain aspect ratio.

The reason why people prefer black lines is because when a video has a funky ass aspect ratio, it can become unsightly to look at and also mess with perception of the action on screen.

Nothing worse than thinking a move looks like it has more range than it should because its stretched improperly.

If you're gonna do widescreen, be sure to have the captured output video in a wide screen resolution on top of the game itself.
 

SpiderMad

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Dont stretch it imo unless you can retain aspect ratio.

The reason why people prefer black lines is because when a video has a funky *** aspect ratio, it can become unsightly to look at and also mess with perception of the action on screen.

Nothing worse than thinking a move looks like it has more range than it should because its stretched improperly.

If you're gonna do widescreen, be sure to have the captured output video in a wide screen resolution on top of the game itself.
I don't imagine that to be that bad, it feels more immersive; and Ike's side-b now goes across your screen farther.
I've tried the changing aspect ratio then recording and widescreening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12tLH7wCwq8 but I don't seem to like it

Was that video quality as in good?

Oh wait, okay this could apply to it too: BOTH. I upload the video on BOTH channels and have a link in the video for the wide/non-wide. But then I gotta decide which video will be the public one still
 
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Soft Serve

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Sorry to interupt brawl/smash4/cartoon discussion
but the Supreme Courts decided to be bad asses today and make the obvious choice

the US is slowly becomeing more progressive, other than the south.

Also, someone today told me that the seperation of church/state should only apply in one direction, that the state cant touch the church but the church can get all up in that congressional booty. I tried to say that that is stupid because if one religion asserts it's views through goverment, that the state is directly influencing other religions and thats also unconstitutional. I tried to explain why the hobby lobby descision a few months ago was bad due to this, and I just got the stink eye in return -.-
 

GHNeko

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I don't imagine that to be that bad, it feels more immersive; and Ike's side-b now goes across your screen farther.
I've tried the changing aspect ratio then recording and widescreening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12tLH7wCwq8 but I don't seem to like it

Was that video quality as in good?

Oh wait, okay this could apply to it too: BOTH. I upload the video on BOTH channels and have a link in the video for the wide/non-wide. But then I gotta decide which video will be the public one still
I think that video is good.

And there is no need for backyard cinematic techniques. It doesn't need to feel immersive, and if you are trying to do that anyways, there are others ways of doing such a thing.

Messing up the aspect ratio, I don't feel, is one of the ways to do this.

If your videos and content are done well, then they'll be immersed on their own.
 

The_Altrox

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Also, someone today told me that the seperation of church/state should only apply in one direction, that the state cant touch the church but the church can get all up in that congressional booty.


That is ridiculous. As if there isn't enough religious influence in the country to begin with.
I can't wait until Ohio gets on board with marriage equality.

As for Brawl vs. Melee, I'm sad that Brawl is dead. Not that I don't like Smash 4 (so far, I think it's a vast improvement in many aspects), but the community did shoot itself in the foot on a lot of decisions. **** :metaknight: and :popo: mang.
 
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