Project M Social Thread Gold

[Comeback Kid]

I think you're reading a lot into Hylian's statement that isn't implied whatsoever. Nobody is saying that Nintendo owes the community anything (other than patches maybe). It was just a statement of historical fact.

The message from people around here basically is, "If you're going to hurt the community now out of the blue by limiting our choice of Smash games for the next year, just butt out please."

 

[Bleck]

yes, because "forcing" the community to play something other than Melee is a travesty, 'cause it's literally impossible that there are people who are interested in playing Smash 4 competitively

 

[Comeback Kid]

I was actually talking about Project M Bleck, what this thread is all about. That game that Nintendo won't allow to co-exist with the official ones if they have their name on the banner.

The greater the separation between Nintendo and the community, the better Project M will be doing.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Such is the nature of the modded beast.
If you all want PM to stay alive, we are going to have to be on the other side of curtain for a while, fighting for survival and relevancy. Won't be easy, but if the Melee community fought and won it's battles to stay alive in 2008/9 in the wake of a newer game, so can we.

Keep it grassroots, keep it cool, and stay lovely.

 

[Broasty]

No PM at Apex? Well crap, so much for training my ass off for it. And here I was so hype to go there for the first time...

 

[Bleck]

I was actually talking about Project M Bleck, what this thread is all about.

Was anyone actually ever under the impression that Nintendo would officially back Project M?

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

This is not the first time we got screwed out of Apex guys.
We can live without it, just like we lived without EVO.

 

[Kidneyjoe]

Was anyone actually ever under the impression that Nintendo would officially back Project M?

No, but that has nothing to do with what's going on with Apex.

 

[MLGF]

Hopefully PM just won't be streamed, I just really despise this however.
It's not about Nintendo not allowing it, it's about the biggest major out there selling out their fellow smashers and their community.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

You'll have to get used to this; it'll continue to happen at Nationals and internationals since one of their older goals was to get official support from the creators, something competitive Smash never had and has been oft criticized for.

 

[Saito]

Whats with all the plebs lately with that "melee or nothing" attitude?

went to a tourney a while ago where it was melee and brawl and most of them didn't have a problem with brawl, or project m (which most of them hadn't heard of)

 

[Strong Badam]

Dude it's an official game and if Nintendo sponsors Apex or has some involvement with it then it makes alot of sense.


Every big tourney of Apex and Evo size begins and ends with sponsors. Same thing will dictate what games that arn't SF/Marvel will be at EVO next year combined with what's new on the block.

If the organizers truly cared about the Smash community (in its entirety and not just not-PM players)...
They would say "Hey. We're running Project M. It's a part of us. If you want to sponsor us, you get the whole package, you don't get to pick and choose. If you don't want to sponsor us because of PM, then so be it."

And that's exactly how I would approach any sponsorship discussion as a TO, no matter how many zeroes there were on a sponsorship deal.

 

[Bleck]

it's really easy to turn down an imaginary cheque

 

[The_Altrox]

Whats with all the plebs lately with that "melee or nothing" attitude?

went to a tourney a while ago where it was melee and brawl and most of them didn't have a problem with brawl, or project m (which most of them hadn't heard of)

As somebody who preferred playing Brawl to Melee (yeah, I'm one of those guys, despite admitting that Melee had a better build in general), it's never too much of an issue irl. Most people are cool with what you wanna play, so long as you're not a d-bag about it.

I live in a highly Melee area, and when I went to local stuff to play Melee (and a bit of Brawl) with the guys, nobody there was an a-hole because a few others and myself liked Brawl. When I went to Shuffle V, I had a convo with a Melee guy, who I admitted to him that I was there to play Brawl and PM. He was all "ah, that's cool," but if he was judging me, I wouldn't have known it. Likewise, I didn't judge him. He likes Melee, so what's the big deal. I also have a friend who will make fun of me for playing Brawl (and PM), but we'll still play all the games together, and he has admitted a little bit of respect to me in Brawl, since we're evenly matched sometimes. IN return, I know he's great at Melee.

However, there's always that d-bag that's going to hate on X game for X reason. They're plentiful online, since online communities attract everybody amd then they develop that "Internet Tough Guy" syndrome where you can be an a-hole because you're doing it through a computer screen. But there's always a few guys like that in real life who will openly crap on X game, not giving a crap that people like to play it more than theirs. I remember on Shuffle V, I was goofing around with some others on PM, using Giga Bowser for kicks and giggles. Some Melee elitist came over and started making fun of the game as a whole because of lulz Bowser, even when somebody told him that it was not used competitively. He just kept doing it though.

In short, elitists are out there. They're obnoxious, but the best thing you can do is not be like them and remind your friends of the same.

 

[Saito]

Some Melee elitist came over and started making fun of the game as a whole because of lulz Bowser, even when somebody told him that it was not used competitively. He just kept doing it though.

 

[The_Altrox]

^ And that's another lesson: Haters will find a reason to hate, even if that reason makes no sense.

 

[standardtoaster]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/2jhwzx/ki_player_at_trb_collapses_and_stops_breathing/

oh my god

 

[DMG]

First, I'd like to ask what the actual status of PM at Apex is going to be. I hear different stories: it's completely gone from the event OR it's still running but will not be streamed at all. Someone figure that out and get back to me, cause I'm hella lazy yo


Second, I have no problem at all with Apex (possibly?) dropping PM because of Nintendo's sponsorship. I also don't care if the streams for that event are flooded all day with Pizza Hut "CHEDDARRRRRR" or Smash 4 vids that get repetitive and dull. I really don't. At the end of the day, I see hosting big tourneys as a positive thing for the overall Smash community. If Apex doesn't have PM, so be it. The next big national will. If that national doesn't, just wait for the next one. If every big name event or tournament series decides to partner up with Nintendo, or drop PM for other reasons, then shame on our community for not "stepping up" and delivering tournaments for a game that many of us clearly seem to like.


The proper response, I THINK, would be some person or TO reserve the same venue as Apex for the weekend after. Host a huge PM tourney the weekend after Apex. You could probably even get Apex to approve of a title like "After-Apex Party Hard Smash-Bonanza! FREE BEER AND CHI-CHI'S! (For the ladies, you could have free Chippendales and Pumpkin Spice Lattes or something. I have no idea. I play Smash, you think I know what the opposite sex wants?!?!?)



Point is, I'm still fine with Apex. I don't consider Alex Strife a sellout, and the news about PM being gone from Apex doesn't really affect me that much. I still like this game. My raging PM boner hasn't subsided with this news. I'm not angry at Apex or Nintendo. I have enough patience AND faith that this game is good enough, and our community is strong enough, to carry on and host events well after this Apex has concluded. I suggest some of you gather more patience, and have a little faith.

 

[Lizalfos]

Is Clannad any good?

 

[standardtoaster]

my next java assignment is taking images and transitioning between them by creating transitions like the ones in powerpoint. can't wait to work on this :D

 

[trash?]

does everyone forget why brawl and melee splintered so hard in 2008

it wasn't melee's side that pulled it, it was on brawl's. or did everyone forget the "dead game" trashtalk that came from release till 2011

 

[Lizalfos]

@ trash? That's great and all, but is Clannad any good?

 

[DMG]

Melee and Brawl splintered for a number of reasons. I don't blame either community specifically for it, since that would be ignorant of other factors.

 

[MLGF]

I wasn't apart of the scene, or I barely was, what happened during the first 2ish years of Brawl's release?

 

[standardtoaster]

@ Lizalfos it's pretty great imo but it is overblown a bit depending on who you ask. just watch what you think you'll like

 

[Gamegenie222]

I wasn't apart of the scene, or I barely was, what happened during the first 2ish years of Brawl's release?

Several several things like game bashing and discrimination along with other stuff depending on your state's scene. I was around back then till 2011 when I decided to retire but so many things that accumulated to what we have now in terms of friction.

 

[Lizalfos]

. . . it is overblown a bit depending on who you ask. just watch what you think you'll like

I can deal with overblown. A friend recommended it, but I was a bit iffy on the art style, or if it was just vastly inferior to other comparable anime.
------------
It feels like Melee elitism is to blame, but that bias likely do to all the praise and support Melee has gotten for being fast and competitive. The documentary also focused on Brawl for taking up attention with an "inferior game". I personally just have a hard time playing Brawl because of the amount of skill it would take to beat Metakinght of equal or lower skill / me just not knowing how to get strings going.

 

[DMG]

Brawl and Melee actually did fine together the first bit. I can remember old school Melee players who gave it a shot the first few months. I also remember when Snake was considered the best in the game, and when M2K played D3 before he played MK. Lot of early Brawl history that even many Brawl players don't know about...

 

[Gamegenie222]

I remember those times lol back when I was still a scrub who was cocky but I remember all of that expect for the Snake being the best thing.

 

[JCOnyx]

Is Clannad any good?

I'm probably not the best to ask since it's one of my favorites and I enjoy Key's work in general, but I'd say go for it.

If you dislike Moe at all though I'd recommend staying away.

 

[Lizalfos]

Harmony of Heroes is not as upbeat as I thought it would be. I'm gonna have to spend a long time deciding which of these tracks I'm going to listen to while playing Steam games. For HoHunter I just dragged both the 101% and original album into my Steam folder and they were mostly good for playing games.

Also, the Steam music player is fantastic.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Melee and Brawl splintered for a number of reasons. I don't blame either community specifically for it, since that would be ignorant of other factors.

They're both at fault, IMO.

Admittedly, though, I feel little sympathy for the Brawl side of the fence when their game finally dwindled down to nothing. They rode on the coattails of superiority for the mere fact that their game was new and different from Melee. That was the fuel to their fire: Novelty. When that wore off, they had nothing left to work with. I felt like only a marginal few actually tried to make the game of competitive substance, of merit, but it was lost to that overweening majority. Meanwhile, a lot of the louder Meleeheads stopped being vociferous and just put in work to strengthen their game and their community.

I foresee something similar happening in the future with Smash 4, with that community doing a lot of bsing and not a lot of work into strengthenng their foundations because the **** is new. I hope not, and I hope for the best in this game because it has potential, but still.


Smooth Criminal

 

[MechWarriorNY]

*snip*

tl;dr: My point = Many people in this community and games as a whole have hugely unwarranted senses of superiority; they, and "hardcore" fans like them should do us all a favor and go jump into active blast furnaces if they actually think they matter more than the rest of the community, the wider consumer base, or anyone else on the planet.

It's disgusting.

 

[Lizalfos]

tl;dr: My point = hardcore fans can go jump in active blast furnaces if they think they're more important than the wider consumer base.

The problem with Smash is that good mechanics wouldn't alienate people who play casually. Brawl air dodges make me so mad, they ruin so many combos. Who does it hurt to make either a) more hitstun, or b) make air dodges more punishable by sending you into special fall?
There is a way to please everyone, because people who play casually don't even care anyway.

I guess Air Dodged Aerials are cool tho.

 

[DMG]

The Brawl community arguably has no one but itself to blame for the game's death/drop. I remember when many different ideas were crafted to help the game and garner more interest, but they were usually shot down. MK ban (with more stages legal to offset Ice Climbers), MK + IC ban, 1-2 stock games, etc. Despite those formats and changes having the potential to freshen up the game, and keep some interest, they were almost always shot down without experimentation. People gave Xyro crap for doing MK banned tourneys, but I give him a lot of respect for trying something different. Most people also falsely assume they know how Allan ran those events (Didn't he always ban MK at his events? Wasn't he just doing it to perform better in tourneys? Etc mindless garbage).


Brawl's community and top players were VERY set on using the same ruleset til the game burned out. The last notable change in the ruleset was when Double MK was banned, and the game was already so beat-up that it hardly mattered. An outright MK ban for Doubles was probably warranted years ago, but people in the Smash community are quite bad at articulating decent arguments or accepting good logic. Oh well


Brawl needed something *different*. The current format was not working out, and nobody wanted to be called "scrubby" for changing the rules. Even as someone with a Purple Banner, who legitimately enjoyed that game for the first few years, I say good riddance to Brawl if our community leaders and top players had no issue with keeping the game stale and letting it rot. I don't want to be a part of a game or community that is so foolish and stubborn, to that extreme.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I dunno MechWarrior. A bunch of games that try to appeal to everyone instead of their dedicated base tend to not always do so well, especially if said franchise is niche in the first place and they are the ones whose sales keep the thing afloat.

I understand the need to appeal to more users, but you should not do that while cutting out/alienating your core audience and you shouldn't muddle your series' original vision(or discarding game mechanics except under very special conditions) to do that.

See: RE6, Dead Space 3, Shadowrun (2007), Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, and a bunch of other games that failed trying to appeal to everyone and lost it's way in the process.

What I say shouldn't apply to smash really(that has a unique situation all it's own), just in general.

 

[Lizalfos]

vBrawl needed more Salem (ZSS) vs M2K (MK) APEX. I got really hype about that, and mained ZSS because of it (I was still so bad that I started to hate the game anyway, but then P:M happend so thats cool.) Anything that wasn't MK Dittos in grand finals was exciting. Even Olimar was hype. I liked 1 or 2 stock ruleset because it seemed tense and was interesting. I know the fear is that if you do weird stuff with the ruleset that it becomes a big side event, but even that would be better than just not bringing anyone into stream or to participate.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Admittedly, though, I feel little sympathy for the Brawl side of the fence when their game finally dwindled down to nothing. They rode on the coattails of superiority for the mere fact that their game was new and different from Melee. That was the fuel to their fire: Novelty. When that wore off, they had nothing left to work with.

It's okay guys, they have a shiny new game to occupy them for the next few years. That's the real reason to not be sympathetic towards brawl players- sakurai is actually interested in making games for them.

 

[trash?]

I remember arguing with someone who got incredibly livid at the existence of a 1-stock ruleset that happened this year

one statement I explicitly remember from them was "well, at least there's smash 4"

this is what I mean when I say there's rarely such thing as a brawl player, just smash players who will only play the newest games

 

[Lizalfos]

I think its also fair to say that the 2nd coming of Melee really helped kill Brawl. It isn't because the Melee community used their newfound power to destroy Brawl or somthing. It is because more money in Melee = more pro players focusing on it. I used to see M2K as completely Brawl focused, but now I see him as Melee focused.

But maybe thats only because I didn't even know the first thing about Melee then. M2K might have been focused on Melee the whole time. Oh, the wonders of being twelve.

I remember arguing with someone who got incredibly livid at the existence of a 1-stock ruleset that happened this year

one statement I explicitly remember from them was "well, at least there's smash 4"

this is what I mean when I say there's rarely such thing as a brawl player, just smash players who will only play the newest games

Sometimes I wonder if people consider the importance of their Smash game directly proportional to the number of stocks used. Honestly, if we are looking at how long it takes for a set to complete, every game could probably deal with having one less stock. I'm sure that having more games is more important than more stocks as far as adaptability goes.