Project M Mewtwo: A Balancing Project

[PseudoTypical]

I'm going to use this space for results of the new FitLucario.pac once I've finished.

EDIT: done

* side-B still does the 18% and two hits. Maybe it isn't from the reflect thing you did with it.
* goodbye, flames
* he folds his arms for the jab, if that's what you meant by the visual cue.

I wasn't able to get the other side-B problem to act up before, so I doubt I could do it now. Having that tiny flame gone, with the improvements, is good enough for me until after Thursday!

EDIT 2: Is it just me, or did you buff F-Throw? All of the shadow balls connect each time now, and I approve.

 

[Mewter]

I just tried out the new FitLucario, and the jab has a funky huge electric animation that goes all over the place.

 

[Nguz95]

Oh, okay; that explains their usefulness a lot more than I understood before. Thanks!

I also thought about the implications of including a shield system for Mewtwo and write it off as Light Screen. He could form a double-wall like Pit's SSB4 shield (and probably use Pit's stance or the one from his own side-taunt) and act like a Shine, but with much less active time (sort of like Falco's Shine kick's time frame, but with the surrounding aspect like Fox's). It might be able to look like this, or you could go for the more simplistic, pinkish-transparent wall approach of the Stadium games (if memory serves me correctly). I think this would give him the ability to counter characters like Link a tad better, since he isn't able to really spam his Shadow Ball (as far as I've seen).

EDIT: Here's a video clip of Pokemon Stadium 2 right before Light Screen is used. It looks much less colored than I remembered.

That's the best idea I've heard in months. I have been wanting to shift his reflect to his down-b for a while now, but I haven't yet figured out the coolest way to implement it. Your idea is literally perfect!

 

[Nguz95]

I just tried out the new FitLucario, and the jab has a funky huge electric animation that goes all over the place.

Crap. I made it too big... I can't see what I'm doing since I don't have access to a wii. I tried to match the size of the graphic effect to the size of the hitbox. I guess that didn't work... A fixed version is up. I'm sorry I have been making so many errors.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Yeah, I was thinking of posting a Barrier idea in the SSB4 Mewtwo section some time ago. You could use his old jab animation and he could put up a pinkish barrier about his height right in front of him. My idea was originally "projecting an article with HP that tanked hits of projectiles" but I don't know how easy that is to code. If a reflecting barrier is easier to make, go for it. Also, as a side note, Mewtwo cannot learn Reflect or Light Screen naturally, but can learn Barrier naturally.

Also, don't be so hard on yourself, Nguz. If you make a mistake, we're here to point it out and help the project along. Mewtwo doesn't go anywhere without the combined efforts of our help and your implementation. It's a learning experience that is meant to put Mewtwo back in his rightful place.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Yeah, I was thinking of posting a Barrier idea in the SSB4 Mewtwo section some time ago. You could use his old jab animation and he could put up a pinkish barrier about his height right in front of him. My idea was originally "projecting an article with HP that tanked hits of projectiles" but I don't know how easy that is to code. If a reflecting barrier is easier to make, go for it. Also, as a side note, Mewtwo cannot learn Reflect or Light Screen naturally, but can learn Barrier naturally.

Also, don't be so hard on yourself, Nguz. If you make a mistake, we're here to point it out and help the project along. Mewtwo doesn't go anywhere without the combined efforts of our help and your implementation. It's a learning experience that is meant to put Mewtwo back in his rightful place.

Good points, especially about the natural learning of Barrier.

I agree with your second point also. We're in this together, as Nguz pointed out in the OP. Mistakes are made, especially when you can't see your results. We're all just grateful for the help.

 

[Nguz95]

Yeah, I was thinking of posting a Barrier idea in the SSB4 Mewtwo section some time ago. You could use his old jab animation and he could put up a pinkish barrier about his height right in front of him. My idea was originally "projecting an article with HP that tanked hits of projectiles" but I don't know how easy that is to code. If a reflecting barrier is easier to make, go for it. Also, as a side note, Mewtwo cannot learn Reflect or Light Screen naturally, but can learn Barrier naturally.

Also, don't be so hard on yourself, Nguz. If you make a mistake, we're here to point it out and help the project along. Mewtwo doesn't go anywhere without the combined efforts of our help and your implementation. It's a learning experience that is meant to put Mewtwo back in his rightful place.

That sounds like a good idea too. I think calling it barrier is best, since you are right about him not learning light screen naturally. I was thinking it would be similar to the old jab, except he would stretch out his hands to both sides so i would only have to use one animation. He would create a barrier at both palms that would reflect projectiles. It would not stall his momentum in mid air (which keeps his recovery the same), but it would have startup between Ness' (8 frames) and Fox's (1 frame). He will be able to jump out of it, so waveshining will be important, since it will have some endlag. However, I don't think it will be used the same way as a spacie shine since Mewtwo lacks the speed to capitalize as well as falco and fox can. i think it will mainly combo into nair and tilts, since I want to give it really low knockback and knockback growth.

Thank you for your support. I have a tendency to get down on myself, so I appreciate your kind words. I'll just have to be patient with this.

 

[PseudoTypical]

That sounds like a good idea too. I think calling it barrier is best, since you are right about him not learning light screen naturally. I was thinking it would be similar to the old jab, except he would stretch out his hands to both sides so i would only have to use one animation. He would create a barrier at both palms that would reflect projectiles. It would not stall his momentum in mid air (which keeps his recovery the same), but it would have startup between Ness' (8 frames) and Fox's (1 frame). He will be able to jump out of it, so waveshining will be important, since it will have some endlag. However, I don't think it will be used the same way as a spacie shine since Mewtwo lacks the speed to capitalize as well as falco and fox can. i think it will mainly combo into nair and tilts, since I want to give it really low knockback and knockback growth.

Thank you for your support. I have a tendency to get down on myself, so I appreciate your kind words. I'll just have to be patient with this.

I think that's a plan!

Just keep your head up, man. You're done an awesome job, and it's only getting better.

 

[SmashGuy]

Well, Dmickolas, it didn't work... Am I doing it right? I have 2 folders in apps: RSB4 and RSBE. Inside RSB4 I have all your stuff. Mewtwo, " retextures, and common 5 and the brawlbox thing I downloaded from your mewtwo stuff. When I get to the Project m 2.6 screen that says press any button, I press any button. But on the next screen I either press X or Y for 2 seconds. I've expirimented to trying that on different menu screens (like group) and Ive also tried holding both for 2 seconds... But nothing worked... Does anybody know what my problem is???

 

[PseudoTypical]

Well, Dmickolas, it didn't work... Am I doing it right? I have 2 folders in apps: RSB4 and RSBE. Inside RSB4 I have all your stuff. Mewtwo, " retextures, and common 5 and the brawlbox thing I downloaded from your mewtwo stuff. When I get to the Project m 2.6 screen that says press any button, I press any button. But on the next screen I either press X or Y for 2 seconds. I've expirimented to trying that on different menu screens (like group) and Ive also tried holding both for 2 seconds... But nothing worked... Does anybody know what my problem is???

So everything works except for the changing folders, then?

Unfortunately, I don't know. There's always the 3.5.1 code.

 

[AFROofJUSTICE]

So sorry that everybody is having problems. I guess that comes with the hitbox being invisible... I'll make it bigger. The jab hitbox was originally in the same place as before: at the tip of his palm where he used to stretch out his hand. I then moved it towards him and closer to the ground, to cover shorter opponents and to make it more jab-like. I'm pretty sure that if I make the hitbox a little bigger that will fix the problem, since I think it's in the right place right now.

@AFROofJUSTICE: I have had this problem before, but that's only when I have started changing stuff. He gets stuck in his idle animation for a little while, right? The only thing I can think of is this: On the ground his side-b has a new reflect hitbox that wasn't there before. I think that the idle animation comes because that hitbox is not there in the air command for his side-b. When you hit the ground the move switches from air to ground, keeping the animation in the same frame, but changing animations from the air animation to the ground animation. This also changes the moves, which normally wouldn't be an issue because they are the same in the ground and the air. Now, however, they are different, which might be causing the problem. I'll check it out.

I am currently away, but I will be back by Thursday, at which point I will be able to test both Dmickolas' soundbank and this current Mewtwo. In them meantime I have released one without the reflect hitbox, no permanent flame problems, and with a visual cue for the jab.

Sorry again.

Edit: It was a different problem. Side-b should work in the air now.

Nguz95, Sorry if I sounded like I hated your Mewtwo. I love what you are doing to Mewtwo. Melee Mewtwo was fun to use but boy did he suck lol. Buffing Mewtwo is a great idea and you are doing a good job at it. I just wanted to point out these things so I can help.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Oh, yeah. I forgot that he had that taunt animation with both his hands at his side. I'm pretty sure that a Barrier shine-esque move would be the best option for him. I'm not too sure about damage on initiation, but probably have horizontal knockback? I'll leave the specifics up to you, Nguz. I could see myself Barrierhopping into D-Air at low percent to just rack damage. Also, Barrierhopping will be the official term for it.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Oh, yeah. I forgot that he had that taunt animation with both his hands at his side. I'm pretty sure that a Barrier shine-esque move would be the best option for him. I'm not too sure about damage on initiation, but probably have horizontal knockback? I'll leave the specifics up to you, Nguz. I could see myself Barrierhopping into D-Air at low percent to just rack damage. Also, Barrierhopping will be the official term for it.

I like that. "Barrierhopping". It'll probably get shortened to BHing, though.

I don't know how much we should encourage it, though, with all the other skills he has already. Maybe we should impose some limits.

 

[GigasOverlord]

I think it should be fine. As Nguz said, Mewtwo doesn't have the speed to follow up Barrier very well except for a couple of moves. This is even more enforced depending on how long Nguz makes the startup. If Ness starts 8 and Fox 1, maybe 5 or so would even it out.

 

[PseudoTypical]

I think it should be fine. As Nguz said, Mewtwo doesn't have the speed to follow up Barrier very well except for a couple of moves. This is even more enforced depending on how long Nguz makes the startup. If Ness starts 8 and Fox 1, maybe 5 or so would even it out.

I see your point. He definitely has to adopt a different approach than the spacies/Ness.

 

[AFROofJUSTICE]

I am still having issues with the SSS. I put in the stage.gct and renamed it RSBE01.gct. I even replaced my stages with the new stages in the pack. Same with the .rel files. What am I doing wrong?

 

[PseudoTypical]

You also need to replace the common5.pac file. I apologize for that, because I just assumed you were replacing all of the files. Unfortunately, the changes for Mewtwo inside the new .pac have to be done manually, because I only built my .pac for the base 2.6.

If you have problems with this, let me know (through a PM so we don't clutter this topic), but the instructions are relatively clear.

 

[AFROofJUSTICE]

Ok I will try it. Sorry for the dumb question but what is a PM? I am new to smashboards so my knowledge of "what you can do on here" might not be great.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Oh, that's okay. I meant "private message".

 

[_R@bid_]

Electric gfx and the actual hitbox don't match up. The hitbox is rather high and only connects on really tall characters, while the gfx are at a lower level where the hitbox probably should be. Also, Toon Link grows really large during the Side B spinning animation lol.

 

[GigasOverlord]

If it doesn't effect gameplay, we should totally leave it in for lulz.

 

[Doomolish]

I can't dashdance and he's really weird but it's better than Melee's.

 

[Shadow Huan]

this Project looks interesting

what makes me lol is that a lot of the changes and buff are things that I recognize from a post I made years ago in the melee mewtwo section. glad that one way of the other it's getting done

also does Teleport have less than 8 frames of startup? first question I asked of SD remix too lol

 

[PseudoTypical]

Do you think there's reason to change around the taunts/victory poses after the moveset is done? I don't know what could replace some of the slots, but there's definitely more room for references there. The victory poses also need to not become completely still after they've finished.

 

[Nguz95]

Electric gfx and the actual hitbox don't match up. The hitbox is rather high and only connects on really tall characters, while the gfx are at a lower level where the hitbox probably should be. Also, Toon Link grows really large during the Side B spinning animation lol.

I know what you mean. I'm trying to fix it. When I get back I should be able to fix it no problem. Idk about the Toon Link thing. It sounds really funny though.

 

[Nguz95]

I can't dashdance and he's really weird but it's better than Melee's.

Dash dancing is one of the things I really want to add. I just need to try a bunch of stuff too see if I can find something...
I know he feels kind of janky, but what specifically makes him feel weird? If you could let me know I'd be happy to address them.

 

[Nguz95]

this Project looks interesting

what makes me lol is that a lot of the changes and buff are things that I recognize from a post I made years ago in the melee mewtwo section. glad that one way of the other it's getting done

also does Teleport have less than 8 frames of startup? first question I asked of SD remix too lol

Right now teleport matches Melee, so yes, it has 8 frames of startup. Aside from speeding it up so it felt more like Melee, I haven't changed anything about his teleport yet. Do you think I should make the startup shorter?

 

[Nguz95]

Do you think there's reason to change around the taunts/victory poses after the moveset is done? I don't know what could replace some of the slots, but there's definitely more room for references there. The victory poses also need to not become completely still after they've finished.

I want to change the taunts and the victory poses too. Right now they are kind of strange.

 

[PseudoTypical]

I want to change the taunts and the victory poses too. Right now they are kind of strange.

Okay, cool. I'll spend some time today thinking it over.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Yeah. Personally, I'm fine if he just has his Melee taunt and nothing else. I already raised a point about his victory animations not having idle motion after they're done, but he also seems a bit short in them as well. I understand his height from a gameplay perspective, but he is 6' 7".

 

[PseudoTypical]

Yeah. Personally, I'm fine if he just has his Melee taunt and nothing else. I already raised a point about his victory animations not having idle motion after they're done, but he also seems a bit short in them as well. I understand his height from a gameplay perspective, but he is 6' 7".

If we've got the chance to make 3 cool ones, we may as well. Melee's is undeniably great just by itself, though.

Sorry about that, I must have forgotten about it.

As for his height, I think it's a very tricky issue. Making him taller in the victory animations might be confusing and could appear odd after he was of a different scale to the other players just seconds ago.

 

[PseudoTypical]

This post is reserved for moveset/taunt/victory animations. I'll continue updating it today as I come up with more ideas.

Moveset:

* After wondering for a long while which naturally learned moves could work with Mewtwo (there aren't many), I came to the conclusion that maybe the "natural" part isn't so important. Mewtwo is known for his ability to learn almost any TM, and his ruthlessness pushes him to expand his power beyond all opposition. Therefore, I'm going to look at top strategies for Mewtwo for inspiration, on Smogon. I'll return with further writings then. (EDIT: Wow. He has no variety in competition. I'll try just looking at moves that I think are Mewtwo-like that he can't learn through leveling, but has access to.)

Taunts:

* here's something pretty basic and is a nice nod the series (EDIT: is something of this complexity possible, aside from the knockback? It would look pretty impressive.)

* I don't have an image, but Mewtwo could do something with either a Master Ball or with one of those custom Poke Balls he used in the first movie. For the Master Ball, it could either spin around him in a sort of corkscrew pattern, or he could break it (this one's cooler, but I imagine harder as well). For the custom one, you could have several float around him in reference to the scene where he kidnaps and clones a ton of the Trainer's Pokemon. I will also look around BrawlVault for models of these to make the job easier if we decide to use this. (EDIT: Found this for a Master Ball. It's built into the Pokemon Trainer's textures, so I don't know if it will help at all, but it's all I could really find.) (Found another Pokemon Trainer model. It's pretty terrible, but it looks like it has a pretty good texture for Mewtwo's Poke Balls.)

Victory poses:

* more to come

 

[_R@bid_]

Just played Melee Mewtwo again. Wow, this Mewtwo is just so much better and smoother. I can't stand going back anymore because I feel so weak and pathetic. Now I now longer need to play Melee anymore, since everything's in Project M and so much better.
Also, is it just me, or is Mewtwo DJC kinda weird? It was like that even before the whole rising aerial vs DJC distinction was added back in. I can't really compare him to Melee, since I can't even DJC there, but compared to Lucas and Ness he seems to rise a lot more and move much more slowly. Was it like that in Melee too?

 

[PseudoTypical]

Just played Melee Mewtwo again. Wow, this Mewtwo is just so much better and smoother. I can't stand going back anymore because I feel so weak and pathetic. Now I now longer need to play Melee anymore, since everything's in Project M and so much better.
Also, is it just me, or is Mewtwo DJC kinda weird? It was like that even before the whole rising aerial vs DJC distinction was added back in. I can't really compare him to Melee, since I can't even DJC there, but compared to Lucas and Ness he seems to rise a lot more and move much more slowly. Was it like that in Melee too?

I thought the difference was pretty clear for the DJC compared the earlier PSAs. I would just write off the rising as part of his physics compared to those guys. I don't know how it relates to Melee, though.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Does anyone know how to replace the names on the result screen and near the Battle Portraits? Basically everything else is done, but I have no clue how to change those.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Right now teleport matches Melee, so yes, it has 8 frames of startup. Aside from speeding it up so it felt more like Melee, I haven't changed anything about his teleport yet. Do you think I should make the startup shorter?

yes imo 8 frames is much too much startup on Teleport. cutting it in half might do the trick. for example, Fox attempts an upthrow-upair, and the mewtwo wiggles out of the hitstun from the throw and tries to Teleport out of the way. the animation starts, the flash of energy forms around him... and the upair ****ing connects anyways. so the mewtwo player got punished for trying to use a move that is described as an "escape from difficult situations" in the game itself.

8 frames of startup is way too slow for how the move is supposed to work. it's certainly not as safe as people think it is. I played mewtwo in tournament as a secondary for years. never got to be good but I know what I'm talking about, the example that I posted above is from firsthand experience.

as for my old list, I can dig it up, it's from 08 or so but could be good for discussion

 

[Nausicaa]

Have this happen to anyone nearby.
http://www.nintendojo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/art_pokemonCartoonMewtwo.jpg
lol

Sweet project, I'll check it out for sure.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Have this happen to anyone nearby.
http://www.nintendojo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/art_pokemonCartoonMewtwo.jpg
lol

Sweet project, I'll check it out for sure.

Auto SSS tier.

 

[Nguz95]

Just played Melee Mewtwo again. Wow, this Mewtwo is just so much better and smoother. I can't stand going back anymore because I feel so weak and pathetic. Now I now longer need to play Melee anymore, since everything's in Project M and so much better.
Also, is it just me, or is Mewtwo DJC kinda weird? It was like that even before the whole rising aerial vs DJC distinction was added back in. I can't really compare him to Melee, since I can't even DJC there, but compared to Lucas and Ness he seems to rise a lot more and move much more slowly. Was it like that in Melee too?

I'm glad you like the buffs! About his DJC. Lucas falls really fast in comparison to Mewtwo, so his DJC should be faster and shorter than Mewtwo's. Ness is a floatier character, but according to M2K Melee stats list, his average falling speed is not as low as Mewtwo's. Additionally, Mewtwo's double jump is higher than Ness' in Melee. Both of these things should combine to make Mewtwo's DJC have a lot more rise and move slower than both Ness' and Lucas'. That's just my opinion though, it might not be right.

Edit: for now (until I fix the tail animations) I'm going to change the textures in the download to the HD textures several people have found and recommended. Just fyi.

 

[Doomolish]

Dash dancing is one of the things I really want to add. I just need to try a bunch of stuff too see if I can find something...
I know he feels kind of janky, but what specifically makes him feel weird? If you could let me know I'd be happy to address them.

His hitboxes doesn' t match Melee's, they're too short. He lacks of DJC and he moves like someone it's pulling the strings to move him. Also his tail's SFX are really weird.

I'm sticking with Lucario right now bc my bro preffered him, but if you can put him over Samus please let me know so I can put him there again :D