Nguz95
Smash Lord
Yeah I definitely tried to do way too much... I'll parse it down and release something simpler soon. I learned it's not smart to have 5 half-finished changes sitting around, I might lose track of some of them.
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Project M Mewtwo: A Balancing Project
- Thread starter Nguz95
- Start date
PolarisWizard
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2013
- Messages
- 13
First time poster, I'm loving your work on Mewtwo. He's really fun to play as and the group I play Project M have adopted him to our roster (as none of us really play Lucario) with ease. Can't wait for your next update!
GigasOverlord
Smash Apprentice
Ah, man! I was gonna post an animation idea for F-Smash, but I didn't think you'd be changing it. It would be the same properties as the F-Smash now, but he'd do it with one hand.
F-Smash Shadow Burst: Mewtwo holds his arm at a 45 degree angle in front of his chest sternly. This is the smash charge period. When released, he quickly thrusts his hand forward and creates a dark burst in the palm of his hand.
But if the F-Smash is coming along fine, just keep going. I am excited to see the changes in the new batch. For size, I'd probably put out a smaller pack. Also; a suggestion. Release a small changelist when new packs come out. This helps with playtesting so I know what to look for and how some moves should feel compared to how their properties actually are. If that's actually difficult to do, don't worry about it; I enjoy finding new things.
F-Smash Shadow Burst: Mewtwo holds his arm at a 45 degree angle in front of his chest sternly. This is the smash charge period. When released, he quickly thrusts his hand forward and creates a dark burst in the palm of his hand.
But if the F-Smash is coming along fine, just keep going. I am excited to see the changes in the new batch. For size, I'd probably put out a smaller pack. Also; a suggestion. Release a small changelist when new packs come out. This helps with playtesting so I know what to look for and how some moves should feel compared to how their properties actually are. If that's actually difficult to do, don't worry about it; I enjoy finding new things.
AFROofJUSTICE
Smash Cadet
This looks like great news! Can't wait to try it out. BTW does anybody know how to change Lucario's name to Mewtwo on the results screen?Sorry about that. Here's what I have so far: Barrier is in a weird place. Right now the animation works great. He puts out his hand nice and smooth, and then a purple burst comes out of his hands. The whole move lasts for almost a second (39 frames). The problem now is twofold:
1. I can't get him to reflect stuff
2. I can't get it to only cancel on jumps (he can walk, jump, attack, etc after frame 20).
While these problems sound pretty big, I'm pretty sure I'm right around the corner of figuring them out. I'm just trying to figure out some extra flags that can give me the effect (reflect) that I need. I'm going to look at Lucas' and Ness' shines to see if I can find a jump-only command. I believe it has to do with variables. That also means I can look at Ike's side b too.
In other news, jab is prefect. It comes out on frame 4. It's as strong as Ganon's, and the hitbox is in a good place now. Fsmash functions pretty well now. It's a slow starting smash that hits really hard (think) at the hand and arm hitboxes, but not at the extended hitbox (think old
Other miscellaneous things:
I have been trying to contact the PM guys to find out how they added dash-dancing. I met JCeaser at Xandu a few days ago. Unfortunately he didn't know how they coded the dash dancing, but he directed me to some other people. I have been trying to figure it out on my own with little success. I might be on to something though. I have also been experimenting with the plug and play .rels. Right now they just make the game crash.... I have no idea how these work, so I'm going to send a message to the guy who started the thread and see if he knows how to do this for Project M. I'm not sure this part will work out, but I really hope it does. In terms of good news I found the screen shake command and I added to his dsmash and his fsmash. I have been trying to get the fsmash to look really strong, and the screen shake adds to the feeling imo.
Writing all this down it occurred to me that I'm trying to do too much for this next version. I'll just release one with a proto down b once I get the reflect working, a finished fsmash, and a finished ftilt. Expect something really soon!
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
AFAIK this is something that is rooted incredibly deep into the game and isn't as maneuverable as the rest of the name slots. I was personally able to change everything except that. I understand that this isn't really an answer to your question, but just know that it won't be easy, if it's even possible now.
AFROofJUSTICE
Smash Cadet
Don't worry about it. That is really strange though. I forgot to ask another question. Where do you find the Mewtwo sfx for Gecko? I am assuming that it gets updated.
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
In order to get Mewtwo's SFX over Lucario, just read and follow the relevant .txt file in this package I made. Note that this won't be set up for any other character once the plug-and-play comes out; it's just for Lucario right now. Also, it isn't really getting updated, since I didn't make it; I just made a hackless version of the sounds put together from the original thing I found. Amazerommu said he would probably make a better SFX collection at a later date, but this one is fine for now IMO.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3b3dka1i20r9pe2/Mewtwo CSS Stuff.rar
JOE!
Smash Hero
Down B...
Reflect...
Barrier....
Oh lawd you gave Mewtwo a shine :C
Reflect...
Barrier....
Oh lawd you gave Mewtwo a shine :C
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
It will play a lot differently than most shines, it seems, but you're not wrong. haha
GigasOverlord
Smash Apprentice
Just taking note of the current properties of Barrier matched up with the way Mewtwo is now, I'm fine if you can't jump out of it. His increased dash speed will help (depending on Barrier's knockback and IASA frames) with JC grabs if you rush fast enough.
EDIT: It would be kinda like Zero Suit Samus dash cancelling her Paralyzer.
EDIT: It would be kinda like Zero Suit Samus dash cancelling her Paralyzer.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Hyesz!I finally got all of it working! The down b is finished, along with the ftilt and the fsmash. Check it out in the OP
The changelist is as follows:
1. New Down b! It's a shine-like move like we discussed, but there are a few things that differentiate it from a regular shine. It has a fixed move duration (approx 1 second). the attack hitbox comes out on frame 5. The reflect hitbox comes out on frame 6. It is jump-cancellable on frame 6 as well, so you can in fact waveshine. The hitbox from the shine is similar to Falco's, which I thought was appropriate because Mewtwo focuses on vertical kills.
2. New fsmash. It's a slower, more powerful move based on Mega Punch from the Pokemon series. Basically it's a big punch that causes his hand to be enveloped in purple fire. It's strongest toward the fist, where it has the same power as Ike's forward smash. All the other hitboxes have the same power as the old fsmash. Those hitboxes have a pretty long range, so you won't have any trouble connecting the move. This is a work in progress, so feel free to criticize it.
3. New ftilt. It has the same range and timing as the old ftilt, but it now has a new animation which is inspired by psycho cut. I also powered it up a little bit.
4. Teleport has had the startup frames cut from 8 to 4.
5. There are 10 more IASA frames on dsmash.
6. Mental jab is complete. It comes out on frame 4.
7. The Nair graphic has been fixed. There is no longer a misplaced green burst. Edit: The files are named differently than before. The one that has Motion in it is the FitLucarioMotionEtc.pac the one that has mind in it is the FitLucario.pac
I finally got all of it working! The down b is finished, along with the ftilt and the fsmash. Check it out in the OPThe changelist is as follows:
1. New Down b! It's a shine-like move like we discussed, but there are a few things that differentiate it from a regular shine. It has a fixed move duration (approx 1 second). the attack hitbox comes out on frame 5. The reflect hitbox comes out on frame 6. It is jump-cancellable on frame 6 as well, so you can in fact waveshine. The hitbox from the shine is similar to Falco's, which I thought was appropriate because Mewtwo focuses on vertical kills.
2. New fsmash. It's a slower, more powerful move based on Mega Punch from the Pokemon series. Basically it's a big punch that causes his hand to be enveloped in purple fire. It's strongest toward the fist, where it has the same power as Ike's forward smash. All the other hitboxes have the same power as the old fsmash. Those hitboxes have a pretty long range, so you won't have any trouble connecting the move. This is a work in progress, so feel free to criticize it.
3. New ftilt. It has the same range and timing as the old ftilt, but it now has a new animation which is inspired by psycho cut. I also powered it up a little bit.
4. Teleport has had the startup frames cut from 8 to 4.
5. There are 10 more IASA frames on dsmash.
6. Mental jab is complete. It comes out on frame 4.
7. The Nair graphic has been fixed. There is no longer a misplaced green burst. Edit: The files are named differently than before. The one that has Motion in it is the FitLucarioMotionEtc.pac the one that has mind in it is the FitLucario.pac
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
Sweet! Gonna go try it out right now. Awesome work!Hyesz!
The changelist is as follows:
1. New Down b! It's a shine-like move like we discussed, but there are a few things that differentiate it from a regular shine. It has a fixed move duration (approx 1 second). the attack hitbox comes out on frame 5. The reflect hitbox comes out on frame 6. It is jump-cancellable on frame 6 as well, so you can in fact waveshine. The hitbox from the shine is similar to Falco's, which I thought was appropriate because Mewtwo focuses on vertical kills.
2. New fsmash. It's a slower, more powerful move based on Mega Punch from the Pokemon series. Basically it's a big punch that causes his hand to be enveloped in purple fire. It's strongest toward the fist, where it has the same power as Ike's forward smash. All the other hitboxes have the same power as the old fsmash. Those hitboxes have a pretty long range, so you won't have any trouble connecting the move. This is a work in progress, so feel free to criticize it.
3. New ftilt. It has the same range and timing as the old ftilt, but it now has a new animation which is inspired by psycho cut. I also powered it up a little bit.
4. Teleport has had the startup frames cut from 8 to 4.
5. There are 10 more IASA frames on dsmash.
6. Mental jab is complete. It comes out on frame 4.
7. The Nair graphic has been fixed. There is no longer a misplaced green burst.
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
Okay; only tried it a little, but these are my thoughts/notes:
* love the new Down-B, although I wasn't able to check a lot of its properties, including reflecting projectiles.
* jab is perfect now
* really like the Mega Punch F-Smash. The only thing that's off is his charging animation. He sways back and forth a lot; it's actually pretty funny.
* U-Tilt has recaptured the flame (literally; the fire is back).
I'll have to try it more later today!
* love the new Down-B, although I wasn't able to check a lot of its properties, including reflecting projectiles.
* jab is perfect now
* really like the Mega Punch F-Smash. The only thing that's off is his charging animation. He sways back and forth a lot; it's actually pretty funny.
* U-Tilt has recaptured the flame (literally; the fire is back).
I'll have to try it more later today!
Nguz95
Smash Lord
ARRGH!!! The flames are back!!! I will fix that now. I never use utilt so I didn't notice.
AFROofJUSTICE
Smash Cadet
A shine for Mewtwo? It is time to bring JUSTICE to those space animals! I am going to try this out. I'll let you know what I think of this.Hyesz!
The changelist is as follows:
1. New Down b! It's a shine-like move like we discussed, but there are a few things that differentiate it from a regular shine. It has a fixed move duration (approx 1 second). the attack hitbox comes out on frame 5. The reflect hitbox comes out on frame 6. It is jump-cancellable on frame 6 as well, so you can in fact waveshine. The hitbox from the shine is similar to Falco's, which I thought was appropriate because Mewtwo focuses on vertical kills.
2. New fsmash. It's a slower, more powerful move based on Mega Punch from the Pokemon series. Basically it's a big punch that causes his hand to be enveloped in purple fire. It's strongest toward the fist, where it has the same power as Ike's forward smash. All the other hitboxes have the same power as the old fsmash. Those hitboxes have a pretty long range, so you won't have any trouble connecting the move. This is a work in progress, so feel free to criticize it.
3. New ftilt. It has the same range and timing as the old ftilt, but it now has a new animation which is inspired by psycho cut. I also powered it up a little bit.
4. Teleport has had the startup frames cut from 8 to 4.
5. There are 10 more IASA frames on dsmash.
6. Mental jab is complete. It comes out on frame 4.
7. The Nair graphic has been fixed. There is no longer a misplaced green burst. Edit: The files are named differently than before. The one that has Motion in it is the FitLucarioMotionEtc.pac the one that has mind in it is the FitLucario.pac
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
Okay, a few more notes:
* Teleport is really, really fast; I think too fast. I also can't seem to change the direction very well, and it won't register trying to go down at all.
* F-Tilt cut animation is pretty big IMO, although it looks and plays great!
* It might be because I'm using Starwaffle's model, but the F-Smash makes the arm that isn't punching bend behind him.
Still haven't had the means to really test out the reflect. I'll have someone test it with me later!
* Teleport is really, really fast; I think too fast. I also can't seem to change the direction very well, and it won't register trying to go down at all.
* F-Tilt cut animation is pretty big IMO, although it looks and plays great!
* It might be because I'm using Starwaffle's model, but the F-Smash makes the arm that isn't punching bend behind him.
Still haven't had the means to really test out the reflect. I'll have someone test it with me later!
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
haha I feel bad. Those flames have been a pain in the neck.
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
Okay, just tested Barrier. It seems that it just blocks projectiles rather than reflecting right now. I also had a little trouble with the timing (I'm guessing the window is pretty small). Not sure if that's something to change or I should just get better with it.
GigasOverlord
Smash Apprentice
Here is a list of s**t I expect you to read. Seriously, though. These changes are really awesome. Thoughts enclosed.
Jab: Jab is clean. New damage fits it very well, and lack of indicator makes it so your opponent has to actually pay attention to what you're doing (and it actually hits short characters now). This move is done.
D-Tilt: Done.
F-Tilt: I would make the wave in the slash a bit smaller, actually indicative of where he's hitting. Right now, I just move in close so I know that I'll hit instead of already knowing where it'll hit. Also, Psycho Cut doesn't hit adjacent on Mario or any characters smaller than him; is this intentional? I don't mind the fact that it is, but paired with the really large wave, it makes it more difficult to use. As an aside, would it be possible to make the wave a dark purple like in the games?
U-Tilt: I did not expect that when I went to use it. Needs a small indicator of where it hits; a small shock or shadow burst. During the entire time I was testing, I honestly just used it and prayed it hit. With the jab, it's fine not to have an indicator because it hits right in front of you. This one, it feels weird to use. Also, it hits right behind Mewtwo and from that, combos into itself at low percent. I would just put damage and knockback on his entire body, but make behind him a sweetspot. The sweetspot would hit like normal, but the regular body hitboxes would do piddling damage and knockback. Also, Dmickolas said the "fire" was back, but I haven't had that happen to me yet. I'm probably the exception and not the rule, though.
F-Smash: Oh, my God. I love this move SO much, much more than my idea in retrospect. Dmickolas is right, though. He boogies pretty hard while charging it. The properties are fine though, just some animation issues. Also, the screen shake is perfect. Landing this move makes you feel like you landed a huge goddamn hit and it feels great.
D-Smash: The screen shake on this move is great. I'd put this one in the done folder.
U-Smash: To be honest, this move is done. Just an aside for the animation; maybe speed up the initial arm raising as to make it feel more like an arm thrust or actually make it a direct arm thrust that scoops enemies into it?
Dash Attack: This one is done. The only thing I'd throw on it is literally maybe 2 or 3 IASA frames, but that's just me whining.
Grab: Grab range is fine. I don't think this was changed at all and this was probably the first time I noticed it. He still kinda twitches when holding someone, though.
Pummel: Pummel is fine. The speed is fine. This one is done.
F-Throw: The projectile linking is still a bit weak on smaller/lighter characters. Maybe have the first couple of projectiles do more damage so it isn't a waste on lighter characters?
B-Throw: This one is done.
U-Throw: This one is done.
D-Throw: This one still has fixed knockback. I'm still not sure if this is intentional, but if it is, a good combo starter. Just needs the launch vector to be slightly closer to him.
Jump: This animation is done.
Double Jump: This one is done, too.
N-Air: Methinks you added the carrying property of Melee. Either that, or I'm dumb and haven't noticed it yet. Also, I love the cleaned up animation. This one is done.
F-Air: My friend thinks the shadow trail is a little too long when you move from origin of the attack (moving diagonally). I would be inclined to agree. If this is an easy fix, by all means go for it, but it's fine as it is right now for properties.
B-Air: This one is done in terms of properties. Just need to smooth out some bone/animation issues.
U-Air: If you hit them near the end of the attack, it pseudo-spikes or "scoops" them; is this intentional? Otherwise, this one is done.
D-Air: This one is done.
Get-up Attack: This one is done.
Shadow Ball: This one is done in terms of properties. Just a thought, would it be possible to change the charging Shadow Ball damage into shadow instead of electric? It makes more sense for a Shadow Ball to do shadow damage, right?
Confusion: This one still doesn't feel right. Tumble would make this move worlds better. When used in the air, it puts you into special fall instead of in Melee where it would stop your momentum and give you a slight vertical boost. If you have something in the kitchen cooking for this one, I'm really eager to see it. Otherwise, put bluntly, this move was garbage in Melee and still is (no offense).
Barrier: I don't think this move works the way as intended, or you intended it to be solely an offensive move. I can't reflect projectiles with it, it only clanks with them. The knockback at zero is almost enough to kill Jiggs on Warioware, and does at 20%. The knockback is cancelled completely when crouching, even on Jiggs at 999. The damage factors are fine, but the knockback is janked. It also turns characters around when they are hit at the corona. Here are a couple of thoughts for it.
Have the move be able to hold once the projectile reflecting works. If reflecting doesn't work, at least have it tank projectiles. He can't tank a Ditto Shadow Ball. The ball gets cancelled, but the properties penetrate and he gets hit anyways.
Fix that damn knockback, bro. I understand the want to give Mewtwo a Falco shine, but make it more like Wolf's. Diagonal allows Mewtwo to follow up with a more plentiful array of attacks instead of F-Air to kill and D-Air to set grab kills. As it is right now, he can Barrier, JC the Barrier, then hit them offstage with another Barrier for the kill.
Fix the whole crouch null thing. I don't know how difficult this would be, so it isn't super high priority.
EDIT: My thoughts on Barrier may seem a little harsh in retrospect. Being able to hold Barrier and null projectiles should be the main focus, with the knockback as a close secondary in terms of having things fixed/polished. The knockback just needs to be lessened right now. You need to double jump to catch up to them, and by then, they're already able to act and counter your fixed DJ approach.
Teleport: The increased start speed makes it a little unwieldy to control properly. Maybe I'm dumb, but I can't Teleport down unless it's out of shorthop. If you have an active changelog, put it somewhere between the previous version and this version.
While I was testing on PS2, I went to N-Air Mario and test it offstage. I got hit by a Super Jump Punch then teleported. When I teleported, I shot straight into the bubble camera/zoom frames at the top of PS2 all the way from the ledge. I highly doubt this is intentional and I only managed to trigger it once. It is memorable though, because my friend and I laughed for about 2 minutes straight.
Random Stuff: Mewtwo's shadow is actually Lucario's shadow. I'm not sure if you know about this or not, or if it's easy to change; just thought I'd point it out.
The taunts and entry animation are the same, but I'll trust you to make some badass ones in the future.
D-Tilt: Done.
F-Tilt: I would make the wave in the slash a bit smaller, actually indicative of where he's hitting. Right now, I just move in close so I know that I'll hit instead of already knowing where it'll hit. Also, Psycho Cut doesn't hit adjacent on Mario or any characters smaller than him; is this intentional? I don't mind the fact that it is, but paired with the really large wave, it makes it more difficult to use. As an aside, would it be possible to make the wave a dark purple like in the games?
U-Tilt: I did not expect that when I went to use it. Needs a small indicator of where it hits; a small shock or shadow burst. During the entire time I was testing, I honestly just used it and prayed it hit. With the jab, it's fine not to have an indicator because it hits right in front of you. This one, it feels weird to use. Also, it hits right behind Mewtwo and from that, combos into itself at low percent. I would just put damage and knockback on his entire body, but make behind him a sweetspot. The sweetspot would hit like normal, but the regular body hitboxes would do piddling damage and knockback. Also, Dmickolas said the "fire" was back, but I haven't had that happen to me yet. I'm probably the exception and not the rule, though.
F-Smash: Oh, my God. I love this move SO much, much more than my idea in retrospect. Dmickolas is right, though. He boogies pretty hard while charging it. The properties are fine though, just some animation issues. Also, the screen shake is perfect. Landing this move makes you feel like you landed a huge goddamn hit and it feels great.
D-Smash: The screen shake on this move is great. I'd put this one in the done folder.
U-Smash: To be honest, this move is done. Just an aside for the animation; maybe speed up the initial arm raising as to make it feel more like an arm thrust or actually make it a direct arm thrust that scoops enemies into it?
Dash Attack: This one is done. The only thing I'd throw on it is literally maybe 2 or 3 IASA frames, but that's just me whining.
Grab: Grab range is fine. I don't think this was changed at all and this was probably the first time I noticed it. He still kinda twitches when holding someone, though.
Pummel: Pummel is fine. The speed is fine. This one is done.
F-Throw: The projectile linking is still a bit weak on smaller/lighter characters. Maybe have the first couple of projectiles do more damage so it isn't a waste on lighter characters?
B-Throw: This one is done.
U-Throw: This one is done.
D-Throw: This one still has fixed knockback. I'm still not sure if this is intentional, but if it is, a good combo starter. Just needs the launch vector to be slightly closer to him.
Jump: This animation is done.
Double Jump: This one is done, too.
N-Air: Methinks you added the carrying property of Melee. Either that, or I'm dumb and haven't noticed it yet. Also, I love the cleaned up animation. This one is done.
F-Air: My friend thinks the shadow trail is a little too long when you move from origin of the attack (moving diagonally). I would be inclined to agree. If this is an easy fix, by all means go for it, but it's fine as it is right now for properties.
B-Air: This one is done in terms of properties. Just need to smooth out some bone/animation issues.
U-Air: If you hit them near the end of the attack, it pseudo-spikes or "scoops" them; is this intentional? Otherwise, this one is done.
D-Air: This one is done.
Get-up Attack: This one is done.
Shadow Ball: This one is done in terms of properties. Just a thought, would it be possible to change the charging Shadow Ball damage into shadow instead of electric? It makes more sense for a Shadow Ball to do shadow damage, right?
Confusion: This one still doesn't feel right. Tumble would make this move worlds better. When used in the air, it puts you into special fall instead of in Melee where it would stop your momentum and give you a slight vertical boost. If you have something in the kitchen cooking for this one, I'm really eager to see it. Otherwise, put bluntly, this move was garbage in Melee and still is (no offense).
Barrier: I don't think this move works the way as intended, or you intended it to be solely an offensive move. I can't reflect projectiles with it, it only clanks with them. The knockback at zero is almost enough to kill Jiggs on Warioware, and does at 20%. The knockback is cancelled completely when crouching, even on Jiggs at 999. The damage factors are fine, but the knockback is janked. It also turns characters around when they are hit at the corona. Here are a couple of thoughts for it.
Have the move be able to hold once the projectile reflecting works. If reflecting doesn't work, at least have it tank projectiles. He can't tank a Ditto Shadow Ball. The ball gets cancelled, but the properties penetrate and he gets hit anyways.
Fix that damn knockback, bro. I understand the want to give Mewtwo a Falco shine, but make it more like Wolf's. Diagonal allows Mewtwo to follow up with a more plentiful array of attacks instead of F-Air to kill and D-Air to set grab kills. As it is right now, he can Barrier, JC the Barrier, then hit them offstage with another Barrier for the kill.
Fix the whole crouch null thing. I don't know how difficult this would be, so it isn't super high priority.
EDIT: My thoughts on Barrier may seem a little harsh in retrospect. Being able to hold Barrier and null projectiles should be the main focus, with the knockback as a close secondary in terms of having things fixed/polished. The knockback just needs to be lessened right now. You need to double jump to catch up to them, and by then, they're already able to act and counter your fixed DJ approach.
Teleport: The increased start speed makes it a little unwieldy to control properly. Maybe I'm dumb, but I can't Teleport down unless it's out of shorthop. If you have an active changelog, put it somewhere between the previous version and this version.
While I was testing on PS2, I went to N-Air Mario and test it offstage. I got hit by a Super Jump Punch then teleported. When I teleported, I shot straight into the bubble camera/zoom frames at the top of PS2 all the way from the ledge. I highly doubt this is intentional and I only managed to trigger it once. It is memorable though, because my friend and I laughed for about 2 minutes straight.
Random Stuff: Mewtwo's shadow is actually Lucario's shadow. I'm not sure if you know about this or not, or if it's easy to change; just thought I'd point it out.
The taunts and entry animation are the same, but I'll trust you to make some badass ones in the future.
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
I'd think not. It might work if the other person has the same Mewtwo files, though.
GigasOverlord
Smash Apprentice
Just a couple of notes about moves and such and some errant ideas.
Maybe because I'm such a Pokemon buff, Mega Punch as an F-Smash seems really powerful compared to Psycho Cut, which, after STAB (Same Type Attack Boost), has 105 base power, 25 more than Mega Punch. In actual Smash gameplay, I would speed up Mega Punch, but lower the damage and knockback. It is really cumbersome to use effectively and nothing leads into it easily unless you're spamming Psycho Cut and even then, it is difficult to link.
For Mega Punch, would it be possible to remove or lessen the shadow trail after he pulls his arm back? I find it slightly distracting, and it makes more sense that he expends all of the stored energy into his enemy and has only residual energy when he pulls his hand back.
Psycho Cut's wave disappears when you attempt to angle it. It also makes Mewtwo flash for the duration of the "angled" attack. The funny thing about this is that the attack still connects per usual.
U-Tilt is really difficult to use. It is right beside Confusion in terms of left behind. For U-Tilt, I have an idea.
U-Tilt Dark Wave: Mewtwo waves his arm above his head in an arc, creating a damaging surge of dark energy. It would follow an arc similar, if not identical, to Lucario's U-Tilt, but shadow element. I have no idea about how the damage or knockback would work, but to be honest, it is a greater improvement on the janky one we have right now. Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but I really don't know how you're supposed to use the current U-Tilt.
Would it be possible to put Disable on his Side-B? In Melee, I never used Confusion. In P:M, I still don't use Confusion. If there is anyone using this project, could they tell me if they can use this move effectively, and if so, how do? Disable could actually be useful in a P:M environment, but Confusion as is is almost completely usurped by Barrier. This will be emphasized even more when Barrier works properly.
Also, digressing from my two huge rants, huge props to Nguz and my fellow P:Mewtwo playtesters. Keep working magic.
Maybe because I'm such a Pokemon buff, Mega Punch as an F-Smash seems really powerful compared to Psycho Cut, which, after STAB (Same Type Attack Boost), has 105 base power, 25 more than Mega Punch. In actual Smash gameplay, I would speed up Mega Punch, but lower the damage and knockback. It is really cumbersome to use effectively and nothing leads into it easily unless you're spamming Psycho Cut and even then, it is difficult to link.
For Mega Punch, would it be possible to remove or lessen the shadow trail after he pulls his arm back? I find it slightly distracting, and it makes more sense that he expends all of the stored energy into his enemy and has only residual energy when he pulls his hand back.
Psycho Cut's wave disappears when you attempt to angle it. It also makes Mewtwo flash for the duration of the "angled" attack. The funny thing about this is that the attack still connects per usual.
U-Tilt is really difficult to use. It is right beside Confusion in terms of left behind. For U-Tilt, I have an idea.
U-Tilt Dark Wave: Mewtwo waves his arm above his head in an arc, creating a damaging surge of dark energy. It would follow an arc similar, if not identical, to Lucario's U-Tilt, but shadow element. I have no idea about how the damage or knockback would work, but to be honest, it is a greater improvement on the janky one we have right now. Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but I really don't know how you're supposed to use the current U-Tilt.
Would it be possible to put Disable on his Side-B? In Melee, I never used Confusion. In P:M, I still don't use Confusion. If there is anyone using this project, could they tell me if they can use this move effectively, and if so, how do? Disable could actually be useful in a P:M environment, but Confusion as is is almost completely usurped by Barrier. This will be emphasized even more when Barrier works properly.
Also, digressing from my two huge rants, huge props to Nguz and my fellow P:Mewtwo playtesters. Keep working magic.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
I love your suggestions, and Now that I've playtested him a little more, i get what you mean about barrier. I didn't think it was so powerful... I tested it against heavy chars like Ike, so I didn't notice that you could ko with it. It does in fact reflect projectiles, i did it with falco's laser on the second try, but the timing is a little weird. I'm glad i got the move working, but it looks like i need to smooth it out a little. It shouldn't be to hard to scale down the knockbackand change it up a little.
The utilt thing was a mistake. I made that animation so I could put a gfx where the hitbox is, but i haven't finished it. My bad there. I like your hand motion idea lots better though.
Psycho cut looks like it's not done yet. I thought the gfx would link if i linked the subactions for the angled tilts. I've never been able to do an angled tilt so I didn't notice... I'll be sure to fix that. I need to put a hand hitbox in there so he can get people who are right next to him. I also see what you mean about the graphic size. Unfortunately that pink graphic was the best i could do. I might be able to create a custom gfx though.
I agree with your Mega Punch idea. I loled pretty hard when i saw your comment about stab multipliers because you were absolutely right. I need to speed this move up, and i think i have a lead on adding a giant translucent fist to the animation. No promises on that unfortunately. I'll fix the charge animation. Making moves link into combos without making them op is difficult, so I figured I would make the move bad first.
I don't know how to change throws, which is why I haven't changed his dthrow or his side b yet. I'm pretty close though. For his side b i am going to keep the animation, but make it a command grab similar to boweser's, except you can't throw people behind you. I want him to either jam people into the ground or lightly toss them up for combos depending on what button you press. That's the idea at least.
Thank you so much for the feedback! I really appreciate it!
The utilt thing was a mistake. I made that animation so I could put a gfx where the hitbox is, but i haven't finished it. My bad there. I like your hand motion idea lots better though.
Psycho cut looks like it's not done yet. I thought the gfx would link if i linked the subactions for the angled tilts. I've never been able to do an angled tilt so I didn't notice... I'll be sure to fix that. I need to put a hand hitbox in there so he can get people who are right next to him. I also see what you mean about the graphic size. Unfortunately that pink graphic was the best i could do. I might be able to create a custom gfx though.
I agree with your Mega Punch idea. I loled pretty hard when i saw your comment about stab multipliers because you were absolutely right. I need to speed this move up, and i think i have a lead on adding a giant translucent fist to the animation. No promises on that unfortunately. I'll fix the charge animation. Making moves link into combos without making them op is difficult, so I figured I would make the move bad first.
I don't know how to change throws, which is why I haven't changed his dthrow or his side b yet. I'm pretty close though. For his side b i am going to keep the animation, but make it a command grab similar to boweser's, except you can't throw people behind you. I want him to either jam people into the ground or lightly toss them up for combos depending on what button you press. That's the idea at least.
Thank you so much for the feedback! I really appreciate it!
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Unfortunately not. It's based on lucario, but it totally changes a lot of his attributes. It will work if both people have the files. You should try it though. You can just put lucario back in if you don't like Mewtwo.
GigasOverlord
Smash Apprentice
Sorry if this is getting nitpicky, but analysis in orange. Maybe I just like analyzing things?
I love your suggestions, and now that I've playtested him a little more, I get what you mean about Barrier. I didn't think it was so powerful. I tested it against heavy chars like Ike, so I didn't notice that you could KO with it. It does in fact reflect projectiles, I did it with Falco's laser on the second try, but the timing is a little weird. I'm glad I got the move working, but it looks like I need to smooth it out a little. It shouldn't be to hard to scale down the knockback and change it up a little. Yeah, I always start out playtesting against Mario. If something works funny, I either scale up to Falcon or down to Pikachu. It allows me to see where moves are on certain characters. I didn't know that it actually reflects projectiles because I either clanked with them or got hit by them. As previously mentioned, being able to hold the Barrier and the whole reflective properties would be something to fix.
The U-Tilt thing was a mistake. I made that animation so I could put gfx where the hitbox is, but I haven't finished it. My bad there. I like your hand motion idea lots better though. I kinda had a feeling about this move and why it lacked and graphic effects. Also, if you go with the dark wave, you could be sneaky and just shoop some of Lucario's U-Tilt properties or animations over it and save twice the time for a move that is functionally better.
Psycho Cut looks like it's not done yet. I thought the gfx would link if I linked the subactions for the angled tilts. I've never been able to do an angled tilt so I didn't notice... I'll be sure to fix that. I need to put a hand hitbox in there so he can get people who are right next to him. I also see what you mean about the graphic size. Unfortunately, that pink graphic was the best I could do. I might be able to create a custom gfx though. Personally, I wouldn't even bother with being able to angle Psycho Cut. It works fine as is, and I'm pretty sure that being able to angle it with the range it has would make it an insane keep-away move that encourages Shadow Ball camping. Also, the pink graphic is fine. If it's possible, I'd love to see a dark purple. It would also help with being able to see it easier. Right now, I kinda lose the wave in lighter backgrounds like Skyloft.
I agree with your Mega Punch idea. I loled pretty hard when I saw your comment about STAB multipliers because you were absolutely right. I need to speed this move up, and I think I have a lead on adding a giant translucent fist to the animation. No promises on that unfortunately. I'll fix the charge animation. Making moves link into combos without making them OP is difficult, so I figured I would make the move bad first. I completely understand your balancing philosophy. It's the same reason why it's hell to touch Melee spacies. Speeding it up would make it slightly better, but not overbearingly powerful. The translucent fist idea, while sounding pretty neat, is something that isn't really needed. The shadow trails are pretty damn cool if I do say so myself. Also, if it adds more work that doesn't need to be done for the sake of making something "prettier" or "cooler", then screw it. Making changes, balancing, and fixing take priority over superfluous animations every single time. For the damage, something like ~18 would probably be fine for uncharged. Even though I really enjoy my characters close to canon, having Psycho Cut be stronger than Mega Punch for gameplay is weird. We'd have to move Psycho Cut to his F-Smash, then make a new F-Tilt, then a whole bunch of stuff that we don't have to do.
I don't know how to change throws, which is why I haven't changed his D-Throw or his Side-B yet. I'm pretty close though. For his Side-B, I am going to keep the animation, but make it a command grab similar to Bowser's, except you can't throw people behind you. I want him to either jam people into the ground or lightly toss them up for combos depending on what button you press. That's the idea at least. I'm still not too sure about Confusion. I don't think I've ever been too sure about that move. While I think it's cool for Mewtwo to have a command grab, having a move that is functionally the same as his regular grabs is a bad idea. Maybe it's the inner game dev, maybe it's the Disable fanboy, I don't know. Removing a move that is unique and adds complexity to the character whilst also adding slightly more options is a bad idea any way that you look at it. It's probably me personally, but I don't think that a command grab with differential inputs behaving similarly to his already existing F-Throw and D-Throw is better than having a more functional Disable. Also, Disable got a 20% accuracy boost up to 100% in Gen V, so it'd make sense to have a buffed Disable on Side-B...
I love your suggestions, and now that I've playtested him a little more, I get what you mean about Barrier. I didn't think it was so powerful. I tested it against heavy chars like Ike, so I didn't notice that you could KO with it. It does in fact reflect projectiles, I did it with Falco's laser on the second try, but the timing is a little weird. I'm glad I got the move working, but it looks like I need to smooth it out a little. It shouldn't be to hard to scale down the knockback and change it up a little. Yeah, I always start out playtesting against Mario. If something works funny, I either scale up to Falcon or down to Pikachu. It allows me to see where moves are on certain characters. I didn't know that it actually reflects projectiles because I either clanked with them or got hit by them. As previously mentioned, being able to hold the Barrier and the whole reflective properties would be something to fix.
The U-Tilt thing was a mistake. I made that animation so I could put gfx where the hitbox is, but I haven't finished it. My bad there. I like your hand motion idea lots better though. I kinda had a feeling about this move and why it lacked and graphic effects. Also, if you go with the dark wave, you could be sneaky and just shoop some of Lucario's U-Tilt properties or animations over it and save twice the time for a move that is functionally better.
Psycho Cut looks like it's not done yet. I thought the gfx would link if I linked the subactions for the angled tilts. I've never been able to do an angled tilt so I didn't notice... I'll be sure to fix that. I need to put a hand hitbox in there so he can get people who are right next to him. I also see what you mean about the graphic size. Unfortunately, that pink graphic was the best I could do. I might be able to create a custom gfx though. Personally, I wouldn't even bother with being able to angle Psycho Cut. It works fine as is, and I'm pretty sure that being able to angle it with the range it has would make it an insane keep-away move that encourages Shadow Ball camping. Also, the pink graphic is fine. If it's possible, I'd love to see a dark purple. It would also help with being able to see it easier. Right now, I kinda lose the wave in lighter backgrounds like Skyloft.
I agree with your Mega Punch idea. I loled pretty hard when I saw your comment about STAB multipliers because you were absolutely right. I need to speed this move up, and I think I have a lead on adding a giant translucent fist to the animation. No promises on that unfortunately. I'll fix the charge animation. Making moves link into combos without making them OP is difficult, so I figured I would make the move bad first. I completely understand your balancing philosophy. It's the same reason why it's hell to touch Melee spacies. Speeding it up would make it slightly better, but not overbearingly powerful. The translucent fist idea, while sounding pretty neat, is something that isn't really needed. The shadow trails are pretty damn cool if I do say so myself. Also, if it adds more work that doesn't need to be done for the sake of making something "prettier" or "cooler", then screw it. Making changes, balancing, and fixing take priority over superfluous animations every single time. For the damage, something like ~18 would probably be fine for uncharged. Even though I really enjoy my characters close to canon, having Psycho Cut be stronger than Mega Punch for gameplay is weird. We'd have to move Psycho Cut to his F-Smash, then make a new F-Tilt, then a whole bunch of stuff that we don't have to do.
I don't know how to change throws, which is why I haven't changed his D-Throw or his Side-B yet. I'm pretty close though. For his Side-B, I am going to keep the animation, but make it a command grab similar to Bowser's, except you can't throw people behind you. I want him to either jam people into the ground or lightly toss them up for combos depending on what button you press. That's the idea at least. I'm still not too sure about Confusion. I don't think I've ever been too sure about that move. While I think it's cool for Mewtwo to have a command grab, having a move that is functionally the same as his regular grabs is a bad idea. Maybe it's the inner game dev, maybe it's the Disable fanboy, I don't know. Removing a move that is unique and adds complexity to the character whilst also adding slightly more options is a bad idea any way that you look at it. It's probably me personally, but I don't think that a command grab with differential inputs behaving similarly to his already existing F-Throw and D-Throw is better than having a more functional Disable. Also, Disable got a 20% accuracy boost up to 100% in Gen V, so it'd make sense to have a buffed Disable on Side-B...
Anonistry
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2013
- Messages
- 214
Wow, this looks so awesome! Away from a Wii right now to try out, but definitely want to give it a look when I can.
As far as the side-B, I think having the grab would be awesome, especially as described. IF you want to make it not "replace" his normal grabs, maybe you could differentiate them? I am not sure how this version plays, but the descriptions almost suggests to me he is kind of a slower, heavier character now, with some good defensive options (that barrier and jab sound absurdly awesome. Seriously). If that IS the case, I think that his side-B could be something more like a dedicated command grab sort of deal. So it could be something like a larger hitting, slower move that is more about the damage and distance, whereas his normal grabs could be quicker, safer, and more about any combos he has (of course, I do seem to recall his grabs in melee being pretty far flying themselves. If that has been kept so far, I guess it means you'd need to do even more work on the normal grabs...) As far as the difference between his up throw and his down throw... one could be more for the damage (probably the down?), and the other can be more for a finisher.
Not sure what you had in mind for the difference between his side-B and his normal throws, and by reading what you have suggested so far, the above might be a deviation, but it is an option, and I really think it'd be cool if this game could have its own "true" grappler.
Either way, I REALLY need to try this when I next play... psychic jab sounds too good.
As far as the side-B, I think having the grab would be awesome, especially as described. IF you want to make it not "replace" his normal grabs, maybe you could differentiate them? I am not sure how this version plays, but the descriptions almost suggests to me he is kind of a slower, heavier character now, with some good defensive options (that barrier and jab sound absurdly awesome. Seriously). If that IS the case, I think that his side-B could be something more like a dedicated command grab sort of deal. So it could be something like a larger hitting, slower move that is more about the damage and distance, whereas his normal grabs could be quicker, safer, and more about any combos he has (of course, I do seem to recall his grabs in melee being pretty far flying themselves. If that has been kept so far, I guess it means you'd need to do even more work on the normal grabs...) As far as the difference between his up throw and his down throw... one could be more for the damage (probably the down?), and the other can be more for a finisher.
Not sure what you had in mind for the difference between his side-B and his normal throws, and by reading what you have suggested so far, the above might be a deviation, but it is an option, and I really think it'd be cool if this game could have its own "true" grappler.
Either way, I REALLY need to try this when I next play... psychic jab sounds too good.
stampface
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2013
- Messages
- 8
- 3DS FC
- 5086-0765-1109
It doesn't matter, I deleted the files in favor of the homebrew full set. Thanks for letting me know anyway.Unfortunately not. It's based on lucario, but it totally changes a lot of his attributes. It will work if both people have the files. You should try it though. You can just put lucario back in if you don't like Mewtwo.
ShiroiKen
Smash Apprentice
Is it me or I can't dash-dance with Mewtwo?
Cool job btw, keep updates coming, it's almost there!
Cool job btw, keep updates coming, it's almost there!
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Yeah, he can't dash dance yet. I'm trying to contact some pm devs to figure out how they did it.Is it me or I can't dash-dance with Mewtwo?
Cool job btw, keep updates coming, it's almost there!
GigasOverlord
Smash Apprentice
Thinking more on Confusion, it'll probably be rebranded as Psychic. In all honesty, they'll probably just end up as being more powerful versions of his standard F-Throw and D-Throw, respectively. The regular version of both of these moves are primarily either for racking damage or starting combos. The command grabs of Psychic would be more powerful, maybe even capable of being kill throws comparable to U-Throw. I'll post my ideas based on what I interpret Nguz to mean.
Psychic: Mewtwo does his Confusion animation but instead of causing his enemy to spin uncontrollably, they float slightly in front of him, distance a little bit further than his normal grab hold. Mewtwo continues to hold his arm bent in front of his body, palm facing toward his torso. The enemy would be held for ~1.5 seconds, enough time for Mewtwo to decide his throw.
Command A Side Throw - Psychic Pulse: Mewtwo effortlessly hoists the target further into the air before using his free hand to generate a devastating psychic shockwave at his enemy, bursting his opponent away from him. This move would have higher base knockback than his other throws, but sends at an angle that is only good for getting kills at higher percents, similar to his janked up Barrier knockback right now.
Command B Down Throw - Psychic Slam: Mewtwo raises his opponent slightly before violently slamming them into the ground. If it is even possible to implement, this would actually slam them into the ground similar to the Pitfall item or DK's Headbutt. If this is impossible to implement, they would be slammed directly into the ground in front of him, causing them to be prone and priming them for a D-Smash or D-Tilt.
For both of these, would it be possible to create a move that has just knockback and no damage factor? It would make it so they actually have to be planned beforehand instead of throwing it out there, then deciding later. It would also create a niche move that would be saved for landing kills, similar to Eruption, Bowser F-Smash, Warlock Punch, etc... Again, these are just my ideas.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
There should only one that has motion in its name. Check the OP for instructions on what to do with the files. The one that says mind moves should be renamed to FitLucario.pac and the one with motion in it should be renamed FitLucarioMotionEtc.pac
Let me know of this helps!
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Your ideas are very similar to mine... i like it. The down throw command was planned to be similar Ganon's flame choke. The up throw was actually planned to be a light toss that was similar to his dthrow with less knockback. I can make it just have knockback and little to no damage. I should also be able to make the dthrow stick the opponent in the ground like DK. I feel like that's too powerful though. Since it's a fast move that can penetrate shields, it would be lots more dangerous than dk's side-b.
I was thinking, and I came up with another side-b idea that i thought I would pitch to you guys. It's based on psystrike. Basically it's a one charge move. Without the charge it's only as strong as his ftilt, but with a charge. It becomes a very potent kill move similar to ike's fsmash. You can keep the charge and use it any time once you have stored it. The animation would be this: Mewtwo arches slightly backwards with his hands above his head, his hands pulsing with psychic energy while he charges the move. When he releases it, he jams his hands down in an arc, creating a purple slash. The strong hitboxes would be in the center of the slash, and the very bottom of the slash would be a spike, making it a flashy aerial killer or edgeguard. Imagine the animation for Lucario's spirit bomb.
Both these ideas help Mewtwo's combo game, but in different ways. The command grab allows him to set up nairs, fairs, tech chases, and possibly smashes. The second helps Mewtwo compensate for what had been a real problem for him in Melee: get kills without grabs. In terms of linking with his other moves, the command grab lets him start basic combos, which is always good. Psystrike gives him a really flashy way to end fair strings, shines, and off-stage juggles. One is functional, while the other is flashy. One makes him easier to play, while the other makes him a deeper character.
Cons for both: the command grab makes him very centralized on grabs. To compensate for this I would be forced to reduce his grab range. He might end up like DDD: spam projectiles until they get close enough, then grab them to set up a kill. Psystrike could be too powerful. It could be a super spammable move, or it could just be a difficult to pull off kill option. I would have to make his fsmash weaker to compensate for the extra ko move. He could end up like Lucario: crazy cool, but difficult to use and kill with.
Please let me know what you think! The move I make will be determined by your responses. All you guys are part of the team as far as I am concerned, so let's see what we can come up with!
Anonistry
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2013
- Messages
- 214
Hmm... Well, I definitely would prefer the grab, although that psystrike does sound really cool.
I think part of the question about the grab is: what does Mewtwo do? We have heavy characters, powerful characters, fast characters, fireball characters, fat characters, characterss who fart, badass characters, Luigi...
Do you want him to play similar to anyone? Or, even more basic, what is his archetype? Is he primarily a zoner, rushdown, or turtle? Is he a hybrid? For example, with his grabs, what you could try to do is make it that he is more of a mixup half-grappler like Alex from SF3 or Clark from KOF. So the grab is important, but perhaps somehow it is not his only tool, or indeed his best one for damage, but instead is good at making an opponent play by his rules. Or, if he is more zoner, for example, make it so that it is the last place to go to for combos, but really good at getting an opponent away if he can find the opportunity.
Thing is, if you DO pick the grab, it really does define his role somewhat... or rather, for it to be functional, his role needs to define it. Him having a really good projectile game while also having combos while also having a powerful command grab seems like it can give alot.
By the sounds of it, you want Mewtwo, basically, to grab, and then get to combo. Does he have the opportunity to combo without it? Or is he really going to be reliant on it? If the former, I suggest writing a couple of powers around that. The down B shine, depending on speed, sounds like it could work as a sort of deflector for canny and fast-acting players to prevent getting shutout by projectiles. As for him being a projectile into grab: Perhaps find a way to emulate Iron Tager from BlazBlue. He "has" a projectile. Or rather, a single projectile that he must first charge. But it is pretty much the single best projectile, and once he has it, the opponent is forced to realize that he then has a way to stuff their zoning, careless jump-ins, and other hijinks normally antithetical to a grappler, especially with the version coming up that lets him angle it. Perhaps something similar here could be nice, where HAS to charge to use it, and turn him from projectile "spamming" to a more considered approach. To help with the rest of his game, perhaps a way for him to move with some other attacks of his, and in general let a well landed projectile mean he is either on the opponent or close.
A different approach, perhaps, would be to somehow make it that the projectile and the grab/combo game really do not feed into each other very well. No clue how, other than maybe a projectile that does not give much time to combo and would be more for zoning, allowing Mewtwo to do one or the other, but not necessarily at the same time. From there... no clue, he'd need something to allow him to scare an opponent into grab range.
The above suggestion is pretty obviously favoring a grab-centric game. Of course, that may not be the role you have in mind. The above also probably needs more thought in PM's multi-platform stages. I WOULD suggest some armor on the grab startup, as well as once fulfilled, just to really drive home that this is the move to watch out for.
Hope I didn't go over too much at once... I just am really excited with what you are doing here. I still can gladly look forward to a new and improved Mewtwo whatever you do.
I think part of the question about the grab is: what does Mewtwo do? We have heavy characters, powerful characters, fast characters, fireball characters, fat characters, characterss who fart, badass characters, Luigi...
Do you want him to play similar to anyone? Or, even more basic, what is his archetype? Is he primarily a zoner, rushdown, or turtle? Is he a hybrid? For example, with his grabs, what you could try to do is make it that he is more of a mixup half-grappler like Alex from SF3 or Clark from KOF. So the grab is important, but perhaps somehow it is not his only tool, or indeed his best one for damage, but instead is good at making an opponent play by his rules. Or, if he is more zoner, for example, make it so that it is the last place to go to for combos, but really good at getting an opponent away if he can find the opportunity.
Thing is, if you DO pick the grab, it really does define his role somewhat... or rather, for it to be functional, his role needs to define it. Him having a really good projectile game while also having combos while also having a powerful command grab seems like it can give alot.
By the sounds of it, you want Mewtwo, basically, to grab, and then get to combo. Does he have the opportunity to combo without it? Or is he really going to be reliant on it? If the former, I suggest writing a couple of powers around that. The down B shine, depending on speed, sounds like it could work as a sort of deflector for canny and fast-acting players to prevent getting shutout by projectiles. As for him being a projectile into grab: Perhaps find a way to emulate Iron Tager from BlazBlue. He "has" a projectile. Or rather, a single projectile that he must first charge. But it is pretty much the single best projectile, and once he has it, the opponent is forced to realize that he then has a way to stuff their zoning, careless jump-ins, and other hijinks normally antithetical to a grappler, especially with the version coming up that lets him angle it. Perhaps something similar here could be nice, where HAS to charge to use it, and turn him from projectile "spamming" to a more considered approach. To help with the rest of his game, perhaps a way for him to move with some other attacks of his, and in general let a well landed projectile mean he is either on the opponent or close.
A different approach, perhaps, would be to somehow make it that the projectile and the grab/combo game really do not feed into each other very well. No clue how, other than maybe a projectile that does not give much time to combo and would be more for zoning, allowing Mewtwo to do one or the other, but not necessarily at the same time. From there... no clue, he'd need something to allow him to scare an opponent into grab range.
The above suggestion is pretty obviously favoring a grab-centric game. Of course, that may not be the role you have in mind. The above also probably needs more thought in PM's multi-platform stages. I WOULD suggest some armor on the grab startup, as well as once fulfilled, just to really drive home that this is the move to watch out for.
Hope I didn't go over too much at once... I just am really excited with what you are doing here. I still can gladly look forward to a new and improved Mewtwo whatever you do.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Hehe... Now that's what I call some good food for thought. Mewtwo's identity in Melee was that of a grab-centric character. The problem with him was that his grab range was garbage, which made his grab game difficult to use, but very powerful. He had a great combo starter in dthrow and two kill throws for different characters. He also had several moves that he could use to capitalize on his dthrow like nair and dash attack. He was like a bad Iron Tager. You have given me a ton of stuff to think about.
Edit: I see you on Shun's thread Dmickolas! I appreciate the advertisement man! Please show me the Sonic and Mewtwo recolors when he finishes! They sound really cool.
Edit: I see you on Shun's thread Dmickolas! I appreciate the advertisement man! Please show me the Sonic and Mewtwo recolors when he finishes! They sound really cool.
Shun_one
Smash Ace
Unsure if I posted here already, but man this project is awesome. I like the work you've done, so keep at it! It's good stuff.
So you know, I plan to do a Vibrant Mewtwo as well. When I do, I'll toss a link back here for those who want Mewtwo with Mewtwo's moves.
So you know, I plan to do a Vibrant Mewtwo as well. When I do, I'll toss a link back here for those who want Mewtwo with Mewtwo's moves.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Thank you so much! I appreciate your compliment and your offer. Thank you again for your generosity. Feel free to comment with any moveset ideas you may have; I'm always up for criticism. Just so you know, i'm working on a Mewtwo model that is the same as the regular model, but with an extra tail bone. I might use starwaffle's as a base. When I finish I can send you it if you want to use that one for your recolors?
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
I think I want a Shun-ified Mewtwo as badly as you do. haha I hope it got some people's attention, though. As for the recolors, he gave me permission to show you the preview he sent over. Perfect IMO. I have the .pac's already, but I'm going to wait to playtest them before posting here (which he also gave permission for), since he said he hadn't done it yet (that's how fresh they are. haha).
He's also going to release them on his thread at some point. Concerning your reply to him, if you end up using the Starwaffle model, adapting the recolors might just be as easy as taking the texture files and putting them over the original rig. Not entirely sure, though.
GigasOverlord
Smash Apprentice
OH MY GOD, SHUN IS MAKING MEWTWOS. I'm done. Seriously, though. They will be amazing.
Be warned, the following list of ideas was just written as it came to my head, so it might be all over the place.
Also, with the new Shun Mewtwos, all we need are new SJS styled CSPs of Mewtwo looking directly at the "camera" with his arms folded and him floating. Give him a Kubrick-esque stare, and that would make my everything.
Be warned, the following list of ideas was just written as it came to my head, so it might be all over the place.
Also, with the new Shun Mewtwos, all we need are new SJS styled CSPs of Mewtwo looking directly at the "camera" with his arms folded and him floating. Give him a Kubrick-esque stare, and that would make my everything.
For the playstyle of Mewtwo, I've always played characters differently than intended to make my opponent confused and have to adapt quickly. (As an aside, I was notorious on Pokemon Online for using a Physical based Latios.) When it comes to how he plays, I don't really understand how other people play him, but I use N-Air to rack damage, D-Air to pop up, then U-Throw to gain favorable territory over them in which I can do almost anything I want.
I absolutely LOVE Tager in Blazblue, and throughout my career, have managed to go no losses and ~60 or so wins online. Needless to say, I love Tager and his playstyle. Mewtwo himself, IMO, should be a grab character. He has the tools to do basic damage without grabs, but does his best with them, similar to a less brutish DK. Mewtwo could potentially be a good zoner just using UC Shadow Balls and dat nifty Psycho Cut to apply GTFO pressure and changing situations to his favor. That being said, if we think like a grappler, I'll put a move suggestion below.
Side-B Psychic Magnet: Mewtwo bursts his limbs, generating a psychic magnet effect that pulls opponents toward him. The animation would be similar to his current U-Tilt animation, but it would create windboxes that pull enemies toward him. This would take time to charge, and pull enemies on the horizontal plane, distance relative to the time charged. In all honesty, this is pretty much Spark Bolt from Tager, but more psychic-y. It aids his grab game because enemies are forcibly pulled toward him, and it also helps his other options, such as Magnet>Hollow Shadow Ball to lock the ground>SH F-Air to trap the opponent into damage. Knowing how I think about making moves, this is probably a nightmare to make. For a legitimate Spark Bolt option, I don't know if it'd be possible to give Shadow Ball a pull effect when Mewtwo initiates a grab animation. If it could be done, that would be cool, but I think it might make Mewtwo a little too powerful alongside his speed.
If we think like a zoner/hybrid, here is a decent/maybe OP move.
Side-B Calm Mind: Mewtwo folds his arms briefly and his eyes begin to glow blue. This would take about 1.5 seconds to perform. During his eye glow, which would last about 2.5 seconds, UC Shadow Balls fire slightly faster and full charged ones take less time to charge. This would make him a little more projectile focused, but still able to do work outside of CM. It also fits competitive Pokemon play, because Mewtwo with a Calm Mind under his belt can do some serious damage in a short amount of time.
Between Psychic and Psystrike I would like to see Psystrike more, even though I love the idea of giving Mewtwo a Flame Choke option. I understood the whole DK headbutt idea might be OP, but I just threw it out there anyways. I feel that giving Mewtwo more grabs, even as unique as they are, would incur changes to his regular grab and weaken him as a whole. Also, Mewtwo is far too fast to be put into the archetype of grappler, and I don't want to see him slowed. If anything, Mewtwo's gig should be about disjointed, intangible hitboxes and mindgames.
Just a question about Psystrike, would it be just a wave, or a projectile? If it's a projectile, BAN IT. Having more than one projectile on Mewtwo would be brokenly OP. Depending on the speed of it though, it might make him too much like a faster, more punishing Link or a slightly weaker Falco. I'm also wondering about the charge time frame and how that would effect the animation. Just because I'm a stickler for canon, it doesn't seem in character for Mewtwo to have to physically exert himself that much to generate that kind of power. I'll post an animation idea for Psystrike.
Side-B Psystrike: Mewtwo crosses his arms into an X over his chest while floating slightly off of the ground. This would be the charge period. When released, Mewtwo bursts his limbs out and launches a large psychic wave from his body. This animation would be sort of like a modified U-Throw animation. The animation idea harkens back to the first movie and the cool as hell barrier burst he had then, whilst also making him feel more powerful and removing some of the animation work. The psychic wave would behave exactly like Nguz's idea, but the animation would be different. I also probably wouldn't make the base of the wave into a spike. He already has D-Air for a meteor; a fairly easy to use spike might be a bad idea. If anything, make the base of ONLY the fully charged Psystrike a spike, then I can call it Psy-Spike. I also don't want to draw too many parallels between Lucario and Mewtwo, seeing as how in the games, Lucario is better as a physical sweeper and Mewtwo as a special sweeper.
I absolutely LOVE Tager in Blazblue, and throughout my career, have managed to go no losses and ~60 or so wins online. Needless to say, I love Tager and his playstyle. Mewtwo himself, IMO, should be a grab character. He has the tools to do basic damage without grabs, but does his best with them, similar to a less brutish DK. Mewtwo could potentially be a good zoner just using UC Shadow Balls and dat nifty Psycho Cut to apply GTFO pressure and changing situations to his favor. That being said, if we think like a grappler, I'll put a move suggestion below.
Side-B Psychic Magnet: Mewtwo bursts his limbs, generating a psychic magnet effect that pulls opponents toward him. The animation would be similar to his current U-Tilt animation, but it would create windboxes that pull enemies toward him. This would take time to charge, and pull enemies on the horizontal plane, distance relative to the time charged. In all honesty, this is pretty much Spark Bolt from Tager, but more psychic-y. It aids his grab game because enemies are forcibly pulled toward him, and it also helps his other options, such as Magnet>Hollow Shadow Ball to lock the ground>SH F-Air to trap the opponent into damage. Knowing how I think about making moves, this is probably a nightmare to make. For a legitimate Spark Bolt option, I don't know if it'd be possible to give Shadow Ball a pull effect when Mewtwo initiates a grab animation. If it could be done, that would be cool, but I think it might make Mewtwo a little too powerful alongside his speed.
If we think like a zoner/hybrid, here is a decent/maybe OP move.
Side-B Calm Mind: Mewtwo folds his arms briefly and his eyes begin to glow blue. This would take about 1.5 seconds to perform. During his eye glow, which would last about 2.5 seconds, UC Shadow Balls fire slightly faster and full charged ones take less time to charge. This would make him a little more projectile focused, but still able to do work outside of CM. It also fits competitive Pokemon play, because Mewtwo with a Calm Mind under his belt can do some serious damage in a short amount of time.
Between Psychic and Psystrike I would like to see Psystrike more, even though I love the idea of giving Mewtwo a Flame Choke option. I understood the whole DK headbutt idea might be OP, but I just threw it out there anyways. I feel that giving Mewtwo more grabs, even as unique as they are, would incur changes to his regular grab and weaken him as a whole. Also, Mewtwo is far too fast to be put into the archetype of grappler, and I don't want to see him slowed. If anything, Mewtwo's gig should be about disjointed, intangible hitboxes and mindgames.
Just a question about Psystrike, would it be just a wave, or a projectile? If it's a projectile, BAN IT. Having more than one projectile on Mewtwo would be brokenly OP. Depending on the speed of it though, it might make him too much like a faster, more punishing Link or a slightly weaker Falco. I'm also wondering about the charge time frame and how that would effect the animation. Just because I'm a stickler for canon, it doesn't seem in character for Mewtwo to have to physically exert himself that much to generate that kind of power. I'll post an animation idea for Psystrike.
Side-B Psystrike: Mewtwo crosses his arms into an X over his chest while floating slightly off of the ground. This would be the charge period. When released, Mewtwo bursts his limbs out and launches a large psychic wave from his body. This animation would be sort of like a modified U-Throw animation. The animation idea harkens back to the first movie and the cool as hell barrier burst he had then, whilst also making him feel more powerful and removing some of the animation work. The psychic wave would behave exactly like Nguz's idea, but the animation would be different. I also probably wouldn't make the base of the wave into a spike. He already has D-Air for a meteor; a fairly easy to use spike might be a bad idea. If anything, make the base of ONLY the fully charged Psystrike a spike, then I can call it Psy-Spike. I also don't want to draw too many parallels between Lucario and Mewtwo, seeing as how in the games, Lucario is better as a physical sweeper and Mewtwo as a special sweeper.
PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
Check out the link in one of my last posts here and you'll see his recolor for me inspired by this original art.