Prisoner's Dilemma Mafia- Fish

[BSL]

You see the thing is though, I'm not treating you like scum. I've put you as probably town. I simply want you to be held accountable for your actions. Explain to me how that is not contradicting.

Straight up, I haven't said a single thing I don't mean/believe. Every single response I've made is genuine. I also don't understand how that is a contradiction.

Any explanation I've given for my actions is the real explanation behind my actions. None of it was made up or whatever to try to look less scummy.

I know my play hasn't been obvtown, which is why I'm not trying to get you guys off my lynch. My only excuse is "I'm bad at this game" and that doesn't hold. I messed up, and my faction is going to be hurt by it with my lynch.

I'm just trying to do damage control at this point.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

What matters in hindsight is how genuine you're being towards this. You took everything said and made a bigger issue than what it really was. Take a breather. I know who you're at if you're town, but right now you're just asking to get lynched. Start over by responding to me.

 

[BSL]

I like july's reasoning behind her vote. Don't particularly like much else.

Kevin, what are you doing?

Zen, you seem pretty towny.

Kuz, am I town or scum?

Soup, you've got the right idea, just the wrong guy. If you put this much effort into your other scum reads, how cool would that be?

Gorditoboy69, what are you doing?

OS, do some more scum hunting please.

 

[BSL]

What matters in hindsight is how genuine you're being towards this. You took everything said and made a bigger issue than what it really was. Take a breather. I know who you're at if you're town, but right now you're just asking to get lynched. Start over by responding to me.

I'll get it later tonight.

 

[July]

Yes but that is not your reasoning. Your reasoning is that you don't want to lynch mafia. Which is silly. I Hosted liar game so I am aware. I have also seen the setup rand two other times by Vanderzant. We just need to lynch scum. It doesn't matter which because we're going to lynch scum every day.

I didn't say I don't want to lynch mafia, of course I do and now you are just putting words in my mouth. I said that I wasn't putting my vote on him right now because I want to look at someone else who gives me a scum vibe, who has been flying under the radar, and who YES, seems more like if he's scum he'd be sk than mafia. I want to lynch the scum pick that I think is scummiest and whose death is going to most benefit town. At the end of the Day that could be BSL, that could be Gorf, could be someone else but I'll be voting and pushing a lynch based on that principle. Undoubtedly you will be using similar principles to me when scumhunting because scumhunting for mafia, who have partners to interact with, is different from scumhunting for an sk, so regardless of what you say you'll be considering whether your scum picks are more likely mafia or sk as well.

 

[July]

Soup, thoughts on Zen please?

 

[Ramen King]

Heh I just thought of a way to force one's mafia partner to go for the team win rather than the individual win: get lynched.

 

[KevinM]

I'll swap to BSL but I need to wait for a vote count.

BSL if you were king who do you lynch right now, and give me a more indepth reason as to why then just a gut feeling, what connections do you feel they have to other players? What do you think town gains if you're wrong? If you're right?

 

[Overswarm]

July, let's assume for a second that BSL is mafia, is L-1, and the Day ends in under 5 hours.

You have the ability to hammer BSL, or to convince town to lynch someone else with the current information. In this hypothetical situation, town listens to your suggestion entirely with no dissent.

Do you hammer BSL and see him flip mafia, or do you lynch someone else to catch the SK? Who do you lynch to catch the SK?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

V/LA for the weekend

My grandma got into an accident and we need to go to CFL for her.

 

[Overswarm]

V/LA for the weekend

My grandma got into an accident and we need to go to CFL for her.

Very sorry to hear that.

Best of luck to her.

 

[KevinM]

V/LA for the weekend

My grandma got into an accident and we need to go to CFL for her.

Best of luck man if you ever need anything let me know <3

 

[BSL]

I'll swap to BSL but I need to wait for a vote count.

BSL if you were king who do you lynch right now, and give me a more indepth reason as to why then just a gut feeling, what connections do you feel they have to other players? What do you think town gains if you're wrong? If you're right?

Gorf. He's not doing anything really. He's blatantly buddying/following Kuz and trying to make light of it.

People have asked him to contribute, voted him to get him to contribute, etc. and he still won't.







GL with your Gramms, Gorf.

 

[BSL]

Let me go back and think about what connections I can see.

 

[Ramen King]

Blessing, my Gorf man.

 

[BSL]

Actually, Kev. I went back and ISO'd Gorf just now. While he hasn't done much, he has weighed in on some discussion. He's probably on the same activity level as you. What he said about soup seems good, IMO. (Not OMGUS, I promise).

BW can go (THIS IS 100% REAL, I PINKY PROMISE).

Oh, Zen, I know understand why you see a contradiction. I'll tell you about it at the end. More contradictions to come, teehee.

I just reread BW because I saw I had left him out of a post where I addressed all of the players in the game. I forgot BW was in this game. Hard to do, given the circumstances.

Here's BW so far.
He sort of reacted to the RVS post. He said "No" to kingmaker. He gave a readlist with a bunch of nulls (even more nulls than mine!). He said I was town. He said I was scum.

His Reaction: (Zen pay attention here. This is where the contradiction stuff is explained [I hope].)

Initially, I liked BW's reaction. I liked it because it wasn't flailing. I expected flailing, so anything but that was good. By saying "I liked his response" I meant "I liked that he didn't flail, so he's probably town." I then thought maybe I didn't put enough pressure, so I should try again. The opportunity presented itself when I was asked who I should shoot. Again, little reaction from BW, but that was due to the fact that I essentially took it back.

Now, during the reread, I have come to change my mind about BW's reaction. After we had two votes on him, he made this post:

No I will not allow that. I have waited too long to get into another game. With marching bamd out of the way I now have all kinds of time to waste.

We are killing Zen if he doesn't get out of that aggrivating way of posting.

This is a reaction. I guess I just didn't really think too much about it because it was such a short post? Not sure. I passed it up for whatever reason.

Anyways. He won't allow himself to be lynched. Why? Certainly because he's town and doesn't want us to mislynch so early, right? Nah. He just doesn't want to have to sign up for another game. That's it really?

His rejection of Kingmaker:

This isn't really anything scummy, especially considering he didn't understand the Kingmaker concept.
[collapse=Here's the downlow on why it could be scummy, though.]
OS presented some numbers. It showed that it is by default better than playing a normal game of mafia for D1. Discussion, reads, etc. can still happen, so nothing bad really comes out of it. On top of that, we have the added bonus of higher percentage of hitting scum.

Now whether or not the numbers are actually correct is irrelevant because they hadn't been contested yet.

BW denied it simply because he wanted his voice, even though he doesn't lose his voice.
BW denied it for no reason. We could assume it was because it makes it harder for town to lose. [/collapse]

His readlist:

Like the kingmaker thing, this isn't particularly scummy, however this one is actually usable in a case on BW.

soup-Null town
Overswarm - Null; I feel as if there are thoughts going in his head however I'm not sure of who they are going for. I want some actual questions from him and not a plan on how to win. We need content.
KevinM - Null-scum He's anti-town and I'm almost positive that he can play better than this. Pick it up man.
th3kuzinator - Null I like him but I'm not sure of what to make of him. I'm trying to think logic not emotions right now.
Ramen King - Null town.
BadWolf28738 - God like
Gorf- Needs to post more
July - See Gorf
BSL- Town.

NullTown, Null, NullScum, Null, NullTown, himself, Post more, Post more, Town.

His only town read is me. While it's technically correct, it's weird that everyone is null but me.


He said I was town:Zen's covered this already. No need to repeat it.


He said I was scum:

Reasonable based on the way I've been playing. I recognize it looks scummy.

But BW's swap from BSLTown to BSLScum came so late, it looks to me like he's just trying to get Townpoints for being on my lynch.

Instead of throwing this soft claim out all the time why don't you actually you know... Do something?

OH GOD, the irony!




This turned into a case on BW. Who'da thunk it? I definitely didn't intend for this post to be even half this long when I started.

 

[BSL]

By the way, is that use of irony correct? I feel like it should say Hypocrisy or something.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Interesting.

July, I'll get to your question on Zen in a minute.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't have comments regarding BSL or his case. I want to see Badwolf's reaction to it. July, I think Zen is more or less null town. I elaborated on it a bit a couple of pages back and nothing has really changed regarding this.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I want Gorf to do more.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Actually, Kev. I went back and ISO'd Gorf just now. While he hasn't done much, he has weighed in on some discussion. He's probably on the same activity level as you. What he said about soup seems good, IMO. (Not OMGUS, I promise).

BW can go (THIS IS 100% REAL, I PINKY PROMISE).

Oh, Zen, I know understand why you see a contradiction. I'll tell you about it at the end. More contradictions to come, teehee.

I just reread BW because I saw I had left him out of a post where I addressed all of the players in the game. I forgot BW was in this game. Hard to do, given the circumstances.

Here's BW so far.
He sort of reacted to the RVS post. He said "No" to kingmaker. He gave a readlist with a bunch of nulls (even more nulls than mine!). He said I was town. He said I was scum.

Reaching during RVS... Right. Wut.

I really don't care how many nulls you have. The fact that you're only soft-claiming when someone says you're the lynch for toDay is what really bothers me. DO SOMETHING. Defend yourself. Literally all you're doing so far is "Hey guiz this is bad decision m'kay?" Instead of just sitting there claiming your town actually do something.

I've explained why I don't want Kingmaker several times. Although I can go over it again. Although you bringing this up yet again makes me wonder if you've even read all of my posts. Colour me unimpressed.

His Reaction: (Zen pay attention here. This is where the contradiction stuff is explained [I hope].)

Initially, I liked BW's reaction. I liked it because it wasn't flailing. I expected flailing, so anything but that was good. By saying "I liked his response" I meant "I liked that he didn't flail, so he's probably town." I then thought maybe I didn't put enough pressure, so I should try again. The opportunity presented itself when I was asked who I should shoot. Again, little reaction from BW, but that was due to the fact that I essentially took it back.

Yeah I don't react much to RVS. It's kinda pointless in my eyes just because actually responding seriously to an RVS will just make me look bad. Again no point.

Now, during the reread, I have come to change my mind about BW's reaction. After we had two votes on him, he made this post:

This is a reaction. I guess I just didn't really think too much about it because it was such a short post? Not sure. I passed it up for whatever reason.

This just in, pursuing your scum pick is scummy. lol Wut.

Anyways. He won't allow himself to be lynched. Why? Certainly because he's town and doesn't want us to mislynch so early, right? Nah. He just doesn't want to have to sign up for another game. That's it really?

Um yeah actually. Zen got us killed in my last game and I haven't been in one for about 2 months. But w/e.

His rejection of Kingmaker:

This isn't really anything scummy, especially considering he didn't understand the Kingmaker concept.
[collapse=Here's the downlow on why it could be scummy, though.]
OS presented some numbers. It showed that it is by default better than playing a normal game of mafia for D1. Discussion, reads, etc. can still happen, so nothing bad really comes out of it. On top of that, we have the added bonus of higher percentage of hitting scum.

Now whether or not the numbers are actually correct is irrelevant because they hadn't been contested yet.

BW denied it simply because he wanted his voice, even though he doesn't lose his voice.
BW denied it for no reason. We could assume it was because it makes it harder for town to lose. [/collapse]

*facepalm*

When I said I don't want to lose my voice I meant that I don't want to lose my ability to sway the lynch with a personal vote. I would rather a democracy going against my decisions than a dictatorship.

His readlist:

Like the kingmaker thing, this isn't particularly scummy, however this one is actually usable in a case on BW.



NullTown, Null, NullScum, Null, NullTown, himself, Post more, Post more, Town.

His only town read is me. While it's technically correct, it's weird that everyone is null but me.

Again you go just soft claiming. It really does bother me you know. And wrt my reads, it's like what 60 posts in? July had posted three times so I wasn't going to stick her with a solid read. I had originally liked you but you've gone and ruined that. Zen is slippery, he's ****ed with me several times to his own advantage. Soup is just as if not more. I've never played with OS, Kevin, or Kuz so I have no decent meta that I know for sure is correct. You I've played with before but you're like a freaking rollercoaster with your posts. Gorf just needs to do more (although with his grandmother's accident I don't expect him to [good luck with that too I'm pulling for you]).

He said I was town:Zen's covered this already. No need to repeat it.


He said I was scum:

Reasonable based on the way I've been playing. I recognize it looks scummy.

But BW's swap from BSLTown to BSLScum came so late, it looks to me like he's just trying to get Townpoints for being on my lynch.

Granted it does look scummy, but I am easily swayed by good arguments such as Zen's and Soup's.

OH GOD, the irony!

Um whut?

 

[Overswarm]

I want Gorf to do more.

I'm pretty sure Gorf is town given his play so far, but I agree with this statement.

 

[Overswarm]

Granted it does look scummy, but I am easily swayed by good arguments such as Zen's and Soup's.

What arguments?

 

[Overswarm]

July, let's assume for a second that BSL is mafia, is L-1, and the Day ends in under 5 hours.

You have the ability to hammer BSL, or to convince town to lynch someone else with the current information. In this hypothetical situation, town listens to your suggestion entirely with no dissent.

Do you hammer BSL and see him flip mafia, or do you lynch someone else to catch the SK? Who do you lynch to catch the SK?

Just in case you forgot July :D



Also Kuz I believe I am still waiting

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

This isn't really anything scummy, especially considering he didn't understand the Kingmaker concept.

Btw I do understand the Kingmaker concept. I just don't like the idea of it considering that OS could be playing us like a boss if he's SK. Just saying.

:fluttershy:

 

[Ramen King]

Badwolf I want you to answer my stuff from earlier son.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Quote it for me?

 

[Ramen King]

Elaborate on #309
Answer #310

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Bolded I don't like. Bolded + underlined I really don't like. I can explain further later, physics first.

inkiepie:

Sorry to put this off again, but I need to get out of school. I'll do it when I get home.

Backpedal #1

Badwolf how is this not backpedaling by your definition? He gives up on your push as soon as Soup asks him if he was serious.

I was willing to forgo the earlier incidents because in his position I would have done the same thing, however, in the long post he entirely threw his push on me out the window, I just want him to follow it.

Backpedal # 2

Again same thing here. Badwolf you had a town read on BSL at this point. Your reasoning is that he stuck strong to his guns which clearly he hadn't. Please elaborate.

He hadn't thrown his whole position out. He had kept his vote on me and was (I think at least?) still waiting for a reaction from me. I didn't give it to him and I was hoping that he would keep on me until I had been forced to give an answer. He only recently unvoted me and lost my confidence.

 

[Overswarm]

Kuz

Do you think BWolf and BSL are mafia together?

 

[July]

July, let's assume for a second that BSL is mafia, is L-1, and the Day ends in under 5 hours.

You have the ability to hammer BSL, or to convince town to lynch someone else with the current information. In this hypothetical situation, town listens to your suggestion entirely with no dissent.

Do you hammer BSL and see him flip mafia, or do you lynch someone else to catch the SK? Who do you lynch to catch the SK?

With the current information I would hammer BSL and see him flip mafia, the information we have doesn't point me in a strong enough direction to SK that I would try and push and risk hitting townie rather than nailing definite mafia.

Also, V/LA today and tomorrow, I'm home to work for the weekend so that plus terrible internet will make it hard for me to post much until Sunday.

 

[BSL]

Reaching during RVS... Right. Wut.

What does this mean?

I really don't care how many nulls you have. The fact that you're only soft-claiming when someone says you're the lynch for toDay is what really bothers me. DO SOMETHING. Defend yourself. Literally all you're doing so far is "Hey guiz this is bad decision m'kay?" Instead of just sitting there claiming your town actually do something.

How do you suggest I defend myself? I made some scummy posts, I recognize that. I can't make things up to explain why they seem scummy, that would be dumb. I've explained my thought process behind them, and that's all there is to do. If you guys still think I'm scum, I can't do anything about it.

My only option for defense is lying, so I can't defend myself. Trying to would be a waste of time.

Like I already said, at this point I'm just trying to do damage control.

I've explained why I don't want Kingmaker several times. Although I can go over it again. Although you bringing this up yet again makes me wonder if you've even read all of my posts. Colour me unimpressed.

You have not explained several times. Out of all the posts you talk about kingmaker, only two explain why you don't like it.

The rest are you trying to explain, but you weren't actually talking about kingmaker. Which is why I said you don't understand kingmaker.

Yeah I don't react much to RVS. It's kinda pointless in my eyes just because actually responding seriously to an RVS will just make me look bad. Again no point.

Yeah, I liked it at first.

This just in, pursuing your scum pick is scummy. lol Wut.

What does this mean?

Um yeah actually. Zen got us killed in my last game and I haven't been in one for about 2 months. But w/e.

Still, it's a silly reason to give. Especially when you claim you don't react in RVS. You thought we were serious, why not give a serious response?

*facepalm*

When I said I don't want to lose my voice I meant that I don't want to lose my ability to sway the lynch with a personal vote. I would rather a democracy going against my decisions than a dictatorship.

Sure, that makes sense. But you don't lose much influence. You're blowing it out of proportion.

Again you go just soft claiming. It really does bother me you know. And wrt my reads, it's like what 60 posts in? July had posted three times so I wasn't going to stick her with a solid read. I had originally liked you but you've gone and ruined that. Zen is slippery, he's ****ed with me several times to his own advantage. Soup is just as if not more. I've never played with OS, Kevin, or Kuz so I have no decent meta that I know for sure is correct. You I've played with before but you're like a freaking rollercoaster with your posts. Gorf just needs to do more (although with his grandmother's accident I don't expect him to [good luck with that too I'm pulling for you]).

Ok you keep saying this soft claim thing. I'm not soft claiming anything.

Your readlist came about halfway into the game, not 60 posts in.

Granted it does look scummy, but I am easily swayed by good arguments such as Zen's and Soup's.

Can anyone verify this? If its true, then that's fine.

Um whut?

It's ironic/hypocritical (not sure which word is appropriate still) that you're telling ME to do things, when you've done nothing.

I'm actually trying to get through the muck (discussion on what to do after I flip mafia, since I'm not flipping mafia) in this thread, and start getting some productive discussion in.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Once I got enough flak for the vote/vig thing, I gave up the gag. You guys needed reasons, BW wasn't reacting, and so there was no point in keeping up the ruse that I wanted him lynched.

This bothers me on two fronts.

1.) He had clearly wanted me to have more votes because he didn't get at Soup for sheeping him.

2.) He just turns his back on something that clearly wasn't done. I hadn't yet responded to anything that he had done and I don't like that he just said **** it without at least trying to get more of something out of me. This shows to me that he isn't going to be following through any of his reads or anything. He's either scum or anti-town, either way he's a problem and a detriment.

I guess joke was the wrong word then. I didn't so much mean a "joke" like "haha", rather I should've said "still not serious" or something.

He gets confused by his own words. I want someone who can clearly state what they mean and to what effect. This doesn't comfort me at all.

I got a town read and I probably would've ended it soon after, had you guys not brought it up. Who knows.

This confuses me and if I'm inrerpreting it the way that I think is correct it shouldn't be that bad but still bothers me. What I think you're saying is that you would have done something but someone brought it up first. If so why not capitalize on it? You could have strengthened the argument by adding your own to it. Why not do it?

You've put a lot of focus on me, but no one else. I'm at L-2 at the moment, so could you spend a little bit of time finding scum? After I flip you're going to feel dumb for not having a back up plan.

This part of the post made me want to shoot him on the spot. He's literally asking us to take off the pressure because he thinks that his soft claims were enough to just take him on it. I want him dead just because of this right here.

 

[BSL]

This bothers me on two fronts.

1.) He had clearly wanted me to have more votes because he didn't get at Soup for sheeping him.

2.) He just turns his back on something that clearly wasn't done. I hadn't yet responded to anything that he had done and I don't like that he just said **** it without at least trying to get more of something out of me. This shows to me that he isn't going to be following through any of his reads or anything. He's either scum or anti-town, either way he's a problem and a detriment.

I was ok with soup sheeping because it added pressure, which was my goal.

I turned my back because it was almost done (explained more in response to your 3rd paragraph down there), and because I thought if I didn't stop, I'd be lynched. Man, have I ever been more wrong about something?

He gets confused by his own words. I want someone who can clearly state what they mean and to what effect. This doesn't comfort me at all.

I knew what I meant when I said it. I didn't say it in a way that was clear to you guys. That's one of the things I've done this game that I regret, acknowledge, and am trying to rectify.

This confuses me and if I'm inrerpreting it the way that I think is correct it shouldn't be that bad but still bothers me. What I think you're saying is that you would have done something but someone brought it up first. If so why not capitalize on it? You could have strengthened the argument by adding your own to it. Why not do it?

I was going to release the pressure. You weren't reacting how I expected, so I was letting it go just a tad bit longer just in case. I had to keep it from letting it continue, however, because I became the target up for lynch.

This part of the post made me want to shoot him on the spot. He's literally asking us to take off the pressure because he thinks that his soft claims were enough to just take him on it. I want him dead just because of this right here.

That's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking you guys to consider the possibility of me flipping town. There was (and still has been) very little discussion of who to look at, what to do, etc. when you guys lynch TownBSL.

Once you guys have a plan, you can return to lynching me.



Let me try to explain it in a different way to make it easier to understand.

If my request was granted, ever post would begin with the hypothetical phrase "IN THE EXTREMELY UNLIKELY EVEN THAT BSL FLIPS TOWN AFTER WE LYNCH HIM (WHICH WE MOST CERTAINLY WILL DO AT THE START OF PAGE 'X'), insertposthere."

I want you guys to be in the best position possible after I am lynched, because once I am lynched, I can't do anything to help.

Once that discussion actually starts, I can actually start to produce content, rather than sit here reexplaining my posts and actions.

 

[Overswarm]

BSL, if you are town... please stop posting "when I'm lynched". It's looking more likely the more you post, but still.


Kuz, what are your thoughts on BSL/badwolf?

 

[Ramen King]

OS are mafia looking to lynch indy at the moment, or is it in their interest to keep him alive/lynch town and blend in?

Actually I just remembered you said its Town/mafia vs indy atm. But why? Shouldn't mafia want to keep indy since they are bulletproof/can win if they trick their partner into being shot?

 

[Ramen King]

Also it's SK's best interest to lynch mafia, correct? @OS


Kuz: Why is July mafia-specific to you?

 

[Ramen King]

BADWOLF you have not shown how his posts before were not backpedaling in the sense of the big post you don't like! The stuff you point out in the big post are stuff that he had been saying all game!!!! Your sudden jump to him looks so fake ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

I'm really not sure how to explain this without looking scummy. The way that I play the game is slightly skewed. The way that I first read through is focused on my top priorities in this case would be you, Soup, OS, and Kuz. I read through you four the hardest because of my knowledge of your play styles. I basically ignored the other people, so when I saw that people had BSL as one of their larger scum picks I actually went through and read only for him. I agreed that he was looking suspicious and decided to go after him. Yeah it looks scummy but I'm not sure how else to do it...

I guess I could go back through and do notes like Ryker or Swiss... I might do that actually.

More on this later.

 

[Ramen King]

See that's the answer I was actually looking for. Please just be honest in the first place.

Why did you lie about having him as town then in the first place if you hadn't read him? You had everyone else at null, but specifically had BSL as town, implying that you HAD actually read him. If you hadn't focused on him at the time, then how is it that you got a solid town read on him?