Pretty in pink or true in blue, Krystal for Sm4sh!

[Z'zgashi]

She may have the staff as her blaster, but she won't use it throughout.

In your opinion. Thats obviously not fact which is basically the entire point of everything Ive said this entire time. I wasnt saying youre wrong so much as you need to realize that just because you THINK it wont happen doesnt mean youre completely right. You could be, who knows, but literally 99% of arguments like these are solved by adding an imo at the end of statements like that.

Just as Diddy Kong doesn't use his peanut gun for every single move.

Not a single gun character uses just their gun to fight, Fox, Falco, and Samus, all gun based characters, have all melee attacks on their jabs, tilts, and smashes. Obviously Diddy wouldnt be all gun. Besides, a staff is more like a sword, and look at the sword characters, sure they have other attacks like Link/Tink with their gadgets, but aside from that and a few kicks and stuff, most characters with a weapon like that are primarily that weapon.

She is bound to be heavily similar to the others.

I disagree, I think she has a ton of potential to be unique.

It's not as though Wolf was not easily made into an entirely new set as well, but Sakurai has set a precedent and I doubt he'll break it. If you want to base Krystal on every other Smash character, I just don't think that is a reasonable argument.

I dont think a single person is arguing what youre saying we are.

 

[Deleted member]

I think both of you are being overly defensive, as if I'm insulting the character. I simply don't see her staff being a good reason to put her in on its own, nor that it should be the focus of more than a few moves. That's all. One move would probably be fine. She has enough potential for other moves, but she'd have to use the staff to be very unique. At that point it's less Krystal, more Krystal&Staff. That's not something Sakurai tends to do ever, let alone in the formulaic series of characters where they all draw inspiration from one another. I always found the staff argument not only reaching but also fairly contradictory. If Krystal did need this weapon she never touched, which is not comparable to Link's magic as it is a prop, then she'd never be added. I don't believe that is true.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Yeah, let's go into the thread of a certain character's supporters and list a bunch of opinions on why said character shouldn't be in the game, they won't take that badly at all. Take away Krystal's staff and you take away what makes her unique, take away Rosalina's Luma and take away what makes her unique. Lumas were important for two games, that's it, yet a Luma is the center point of the entirety of Rosalina's Smash incarnation. You're trying to single out Krystal when there's already blatant evidence against what you say, but it's different because one is Krystal and one is Rosalina. That's bias, plain and simple. And less Krystal, more Krystal and Staff? Hello Rosalina and Luma, Pikmin and Olimar. Of course, that's a bad example, let me introduce you to Marth and Falchion.

 

[Shorts]

And now the Krystal board is in full hornet nest mode again. Guess that's why it's only just behind the Ridley, K Rool and Palutena ones.

It's not a hornets nest, Smash Daddy just doesn't like Krystal.

Instead of arguing with him, just ignore him. He's not going to change his opinion, so why bother?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lol Im not defending anything, Im just stating my opinions, not even defending them, and as Ive already stated earlier I dont think she'll make it anyway. The last post of mine was literally me trying to let you know why people are responding why they are, and in 2 occasions, trying to help you out giving advice on how to state you opinions without riling people up. Sometimes I wonder why I even try helping people out.

 

[Deleted member]

I just think it's silly to compare the staff to Pikmin or Luma. I don't think it's a fair comparison.

It's not a hornets nest, Smash Daddy just doesn't like Krystal.

Instead of arguing with him, just ignore him. He's not going to change his opinion, so why bother?

Now this is simply rude. I've posted in this thread before about StarFox reps, pretend if you want that I'm a troll, but that's obviously not true.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai even said that he had no idea Krystal was so well requested until after the fact, it's entirely plausible that he would return to her as a character this time, and he would look at her history and see exactly what she can do to differentiate herself from the other spacies.

May I know where he said this? I've been trying to find it in his journal, interviews, etc. (I'm not arguing, just curious)

 

[Z'zgashi]

I just think it's silly to compare the staff to Pikmin or Luma. I don't think it's a fair comparison.

Wut? Not trying to be rude or anything, Im legit curious, but what the **** are you talking about?

 

[Shorts]

Compare the staff to Link's sword.

 

[Deleted member]

Wut? Not trying to be rude or anything, Im legit curious, but what the **** are you talking about?

I was replying to the other dude who compared the staff to Olimar's Pikmin and Rosalina's Luma.

I don't know, the staff has the magic, but wouldn't it be just as fun if Sakurai made up other stuff as well? We already know everything the staff can do, it's not like any StarFox character can have a moveset regardless of if they have something like the staff. It also just seems kind of silly for Krystal to use it like an actual weapon in the same way as Link's sword, considering she never uses it. Now, using magic is different, because that does not require an external prop on every move.

I am playing devil's advocate here a little but I don't think it's doing any harm. Yes, the staff could work on one or two moves, even specials, but ultimately I don't think it has the depth to be carried over to every move on the set. On aerials and the grab game especially, Krystal basically needs to use other types of moves. This doesn't quite destroy her chances forever. Fox hadn't even left the Arwing before he got a moveset, I'm sure Sakurai can invent moves for any other StarFox character just as well.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think SF: Adventures had what was meant to be an in depth fighting system with the staff as when you pressed in different directions while fighting Fox would perform different moves. Unfortunately, it mostly boiled down to wait for the enemy to stop blocking and mash that button. Curiously, the basic combo ended in what looked like Fox's F-Smash from Melee. I think there's a lot to take from it potentially.

 

[JamesDNaux]

It also just seems kind of silly for Krystal to use it like an actual weapon in the same way as Link's sword, considering she never uses it. Now, using magic is different, because that does not require an external prop on every move.

This is blatantly false, she did indeed used the staff before Fox ever got his paws on it. There's a reason it's called Krystal's staff, she's used it and she owns it.

Yes, the staff could work on one or two moves, even specials, but ultimately I don't think it has the depth to be carried over to every move on the set. On aerials and the grab game especially, Krystal basically needs to use other types of moves. This doesn't quite destroy her chances forever. Fox hadn't even left the Arwing before he got a moveset, I'm sure Sakurai can invent moves for any other StarFox character just as well.

Do you think the staff is just a magic blaster? It is entirely comparable to Link or Marth's swords, she would swing it around for most of her regular attacks, not use magic, swinging it around. I don't know how that's so different from say Wolf clawing at things while Fox kicks, she just has more range, it isn't going to make her unrecognizable among the other three. Saying she shouldn't use her staff for most of her moveset is like saying Link shouldn't use his sword except for his recovery.

And yes, her staff is very comparable to Rosalina's Lumas, despite how much you wish to deny it:

Your point- The staff was only used in Adventures and isn't important in any other Star Fox game.
My point- Lumas were only in Galaxy 1/2 (besides cameos in newer games) and are not important in any other Mario.

Neither of them should be used, according to you:

Krystal would only use the staff for one or two moves at best.
Rosalina's entire moveset is reliant on the Luma, despite the first point.

Which nullifies your point, as despite the first point, Rosalina uses Lumas for her entire moveset. Now this next one is a direct quote:

"She is bound to be heavily similar to the others."

How so exactly? You never really explained why she would be similar to the others. Just because she's from Star Fox? Because she later flew in an Arwing?

Rosalina would be bound to play heavily similar to Peach then, because she's from Mario and she played like Peach with a spin attack in 3D World.

And look how that turned out, she plays nothing like Peach, and she uses a one-off "weapon" to fight for her entire moveset. How is that not comparable?

 

[Deleted member]

It's not false, she uses the staff without any of its upgrades that would allow for specials, smashes, standards, aerials and a grab game all coming from a single prop as you imply. She barely is playable in the game. You play as her far more in Command. It's not comparable to Link's sword for that simple fact. And Link doesn't use his sword for his grab game, an aerial, and three of his specials. That's Link and a sword he always uses. It's also not comparable to the Luma because Rosalina has her own moves and animations when the Luma is not around. Krystal's staff is a prop, not a minion.

Galaxy is also not comparable to Dinosaur Planet. Can't we just discuss other things Sakurai could do besides the staff?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

GEEZ LAWEEZ! Why must we all be surrounded by confusion?

 

[MasterWarlord]

So coming into this thread, I'd like to try and rephrase some of the staff arguments to see if they connect better. Every single thread gets arguments like these, it generally strengthens them after they're through and betters the thread for it. I could add "IMO" to the end of every sentence, but it's not like the rest of you are doing that in your replies. It is taken for granted that all of this is "IMO".

Yes, Krystal uses the staff at the start of Starfox Adventures, and it does originally belong to her. Fox is the one who uses it for 99% of the game, though. The argument is that in-character, it is most associated with Fox because of this, and the only reason Krystal would get it is for arbitrary reasons to be a unique newcomer addition and because Fox hasn't used it. Just because Fox hasn't used it doesn't change that he should be the one to use it if ever. Now, after Starfox Adventures, Krystal is saved and has her staff back. Yet, for some reason or another, she doesn't use it again.

Rosalina's character is that she runs what basically amounts to a foster home for Lumas. Her backstory revolves around them heavily, and I don't think that's very comparable to using a staff briefly - it's not part of her character. All her other appearances are spin offs, not main series games like the ones Krystal appears in after her first game. You could argue 3D World, but she's just a throwaway unlockable character role. Comparing the importance of Krystal's staff to Olimar's Pikmin is even more ridiculous, they're only the title and entire point/gameplay of the game. . .

A better comparison to Krystal and her staff is Bowser Jr. and his paintbrush, though even that's being a little nice given Jr. used his brush much more than Krystal used her staff. Regardless, after their first games, they didn't use their more unique starting weapon and moved on to be more generic through several appearances. If Jr. got in now, he'd be stretching a fair bit to use his brush, and Krystal would be stretching further for her staff.

 

[Shorts]

It's not false, she uses the staff without any of its upgrades that would allow for specials, smashes, standards, aerials and a grab game all coming from a single prop as you imply. She barely is playable in the game. You play as her far more in Command. It's not comparable to Link's sword for that simple fact. And Link doesn't use his sword for his grab game, an aerial, and three of his specials. That's Link and a sword he always uses. It's also not comparable to the Luma because Rosalina has her own moves and animations when the Luma is not around. Krystal's staff is a prop, not a minion.

Falco and Wolf both have nothing to work with and made it in Smash just fine. They're just as playable in the games as she is, and have smaller role. Krystal's staff is a weapon. Like Marth's. Who is a acharacter that only uses his sword. Not only does he only use his sword, he only slasheds. Your argument is so trying, and is also an undying one. There will always be people who think Ridley is too big, this little number you've rehashed is no different.

 

[Deleted member]

Falco and Wolf both have nothing to work with and made it in Smash just fine. They're just as playable in the games as she is, and have smaller role. Krystal's staff is a weapon. Like Marth's. Who is a acharacter that only uses his sword. Not only does he only use his sword, he only slasheds. Your argument is so trying, and is also an undying one. There will always be people who think Ridley is too big, this little number you've rehashed is no different.

Marth is a swordsman, Krystal is not a staff user in the sense that she's a master of it as a weapon. Krystal's being is not centred around a single prop she barely used in a long forgotten game. StarFox did not die after Dinosaur Planet like GX, it continued on and she made many other appearances where she'd mostly be based on. There is no comparison to be made to Ridley here.

 

[Shorts]

Marth is a swordsman, Krystal is not a staff user in the sense that she's a master of it as a weapon.

Irrelevant, and reaching.

Krystal's being is not centred around a single prop she barely used in a long forgotten game.

This is true, but this is Smash bros. This game is completely about fighting not "properly representing a character". We've given you countless in-game references to characters who use weapons/attacks that are stranger than Krystal using her own staff. Another Irrelevant point.

StarFox did not die after Dinosaur Planet like GX, it continued on and she made many other appearances where she'd mostly be based on.

OH, so you know how she's going to play in Smash? Could you tell Sakurai I said hi.

There is no comparison to be made to Ridley here.

Ridley is too big

Krystal won't use her staff

Both statements that you can't actually back up, that have been said about these characters for years.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

SmashDaddy, the simple fact is that people (at least the people here) associate Krystal with the staff and there is plenty of precident for characters using abilities that they don't always have so it makes sense for her to have it.

All you're doing is arguing with a flimsy pretense against crazy people. I may have described the internet there...

 

[Deleted member]

You may be right, I really dislike the indignation; that what I'm saying has to be attacked rather than simply argued. You can't make the simple case that Krystal cannot use her staff for her entire moveset without proponents attaching their point-of-view to Ridley and stating over and over how you're stating an opinion or implying you are presuming to know what's going to happen in the game. Speculating over this kind of stuff is what you're supposed to do, I think some of you need to chill out and not be so defensive. This could've been a polite discussion rather than what it was.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I dont think anyone is saying that Krystal would use her staff for all of her moveset, just that she could use it for her basic A button attacks and stuff similar to someone like Link and his sword. She still could have different B moves, once again much like Link, and would have grabs and such unassociated with any of her weapons much like Marth who uses a sword for literally everything he does besides his grab (because how would you even grab somebody with a sword or staff haha).

 

[Deleted member]

Well getting away from the staff then, how do you think her grab could work? Link for example uses his hookshot, Marth just grabs in absence of any kind of tool to grab. Would Krystal be more the former or the latter?

 

[DarkKry4]

So Rosalina is just an exception for you, wonderful.

Sakurai even said that he had no idea Krystal was so well requested until after the fact, it's entirely plausible that he would return to her as a character this time, and he would look at her history and see exactly what she can do to differentiate herself from the other spacies.

This Quote is so full of crap. To this day. ZERO krystal fans have ever posted a credible source to back this quote up. It seems to be a common theme to post fake information and fake sakurai quotes in this thread.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Id assume the latter much like the other starfox characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Yep, what I question mostly is what her throws and pummel would be. Usually it's glossed over, but it is just as important in a moveset as other moves.

 

[DarkKry4]

I would really like Krystal in Smash, and I think she's gonna make it for sure. Sakurai kinda spilled the beans on one of Falco's codecs on Lylat Cruise in Brawl at Corneria. Here's what I've heard:

Peppy: That gets me itching for some action, I want in!
Slippy: No way! Old timers like you get the bench, this fights mine!
Krystal: What are you two thinking? I'm the only one who can come around in a fight like this!

Yeah. He spilled the beans alright..... by including Wolf in Brawl instead of her, Slippy, and Peppy.

This little codec thing doesn't make a huge difference. I don't think you can take this as a subtle hint of her being in the next smash. Lets be real.... All 3 of those characters said they wanted to fight. thats really it

 

[Z'zgashi]

Id guess pummel would be a knee since every spacie has that, and her throws would probably be weaker, much like Marth's.

 

[Shorts]

There's nothing Sakurai has said about Krystal that we know about, besides the fact the he currently, must know about her. I highly doubt he didn't know about her during Brawl's development, but he may not have known about how popular a choice she was until after the fact.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I leave because it's pointless to continue a debate with someone who clearly won't change their opinion, and yet someone else just feels the need to intentionally drag me back in. I just love when people who are clearly haters of a certain character purposely go into said characters thread just to troll supporters. Don't like pancakes? Well why not go to IHOP and order some just to complain about how ****ty they are and tell other people they shouldn't eat them. Of course it's hard to expect more of people on the internet though, it's just a given. It would just be too nice if people could like what they want without someone telling them not to.

I bet you would expect me to try and dig up a quote from some long forgotten interview, I'm not so deranged that I would waste my time and put effort into trying to dig something up for a fictional character. If you must butt into someone else's debate, it would be nice not to sling rude accusations without any proof yourself.

And Smash Daddy, I'm terribly sorry if you're under the impression that I was attacking you. I never posted anything with the intent of starting an argument, and I certainly wasn't being defensive or attacking, it was indeed meant to be a polite discussion. Please excuse my tendency to get into a debate, I just find them fun.
I certainly don't have anything against anyone here, I hold nothing against people regardless of whether they dislike something I like, or vice versa. No hard feelings?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Yeah. He spilled the beans alright..... by including Wolf in Brawl instead of her, Slippy, and Peppy.

This little codec thing doesn't make a huge difference. I don't think you can take this as a subtle hint of her being in the next smash. Lets be real.... All 3 of those characters said they wanted to fight. thats really it

I honestly don't see Peppy and Slippy as eligible to be playable.

 

[Deleted member]

No hard feelings at all, I know what it's like to have idiots come into disrupt a support thread, I've had a few in the threads I've run. It can get you on the defensive quickly and feel like you're a bit under siege. I'll admit I'm no fan of Krystal, but I'm a huge fan of StaFox 64 and I played Dinosaur Planet to completion too. I'd love for the series to get a revival and I pegged Wolf as one of my most wanted newcomers before Brawl, so that's where I come from in all this. I mostly just wanted to know what everyone thought about a Krystal moveset without the staff. I've seen so much discussion about that staff but nothing else, when we can agree that at least she'd have as many non-staff based moves as Link. I honestly just want to know what you guys think they'd be.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Hey, people wanted Wolf, and they got Wolf.

Hate it when people pretend nobody at all wanted Wolf.

 

[Shorts]

It's all hearsay, but I used to hear that Wolf was one of the higher up choices on the actual Brawl poll. Sonic placing first, of course. (Not the Blog Sakurai had)

 

[JamesDNaux]

I would imagine she wouldn't use it for every single move, like you said, she'd probably get in a few arial kicks like Link, I could see her doing a sort of tail swipe move like Fox for a tilt as well. Her grabs would all obviously not use the staff, she would just have the average grab and a knee pummel. Her specials would function similar to the others, as the staff can shoot blasts (projectile), can produce a barrier (reflector), and can rocket upwards (recovery). I'm not entirely sure what she could do for a side special, though I'd hope it wouldn't just be "Krystal Flash." Hell, if Falco and Wolf got any special moves changed I'd be perfectly happy with them keeping the same recovery/reflector/blaster format while getting unique side specials (and final smashes), their blasters all function differently enough anyway. Something like:

Fox: Same as always, keeps Landmaster for his final smash.

Falco: Hopefully a couple more unique melee attacks, a unique side special, and an Arwing for his final smash.

Wolf: A unique side special and final smash, perhaps calling in his team for an air strike.

Krystal: Similarly functioning specials, except for the side special, mostly staff swipes for her melee attacks, and of course a unique final smash.

Of course while having Krystal would be completely wonderful, I would at least be satisfied if the three we have weren't all just bloody Landmasters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

It's all hearsay, but I used to hear that Wolf was one of the higher up choices on the actual Brawl poll. Sonic placing first, of course. (Not the Blog Sakurai had)

Wolf was actually the higher requested Star Fox character in general.

Krystal didn't gain any form of popularity until after E3 2006 due to the misquote that Sakurai wanted more females. Since then she was shoehorned along the likes of Ashley, Lyndis, and Gardevoir. Obviously that fell completely through considering that her requests came after the roster was compiled.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Oh dear, will this fight ever end?

 

[Z'zgashi]

I thought it ended like 7 posts ago.

 

[praline]

Krystal probably won't use the staff for all of her moves. Yeah it's her staff and all that but she did only use it temporarily in one game and it never appears again.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nobody disagrees with you.

 

[Shorts]

I'd expect her specials to have something to do with Fire, Ice, Quake, and Rocket techniques the staff uses though. she could have her telepath powers used for a counter move as well.