Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Smooth Criminal]

You STILL have 5 third party reps and only one F-Zero rep. I'm sorry but as long as your list is like that you will forever be wrong.

...and this is coming from the guy who staunchly supported the Happy Mask Salesman for Brawl once upon a time. Sorry, Numa Dude, but your past support of the HMS has left an indelible black mark on your reputation (at least, in my eyes). I don't think you've earned the right to say that Wiseguy is forever wrong because of it.

Anyway. I happened to enjoy the revised list, Wisey. There are a number of characters that should be tacked on for good measure (Sonic is the most glaring example) but it was good all-in-all.

Smooth Criminal

P.S. I saw that you referenced me in the revised update. That made me grin.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Wait, why does FE only get 2 reps? It's got 10 games out in the series and 4 of them will be worldwide before Brawl is released. Don't you think that makes them deserve more slots than what they had in melee, especially since there where only 6 games when Melee came out and they were all Japanese only?

I think Marth deserves to come back. Ike can't fill his role, even if he's given the exact same moveset. It's not the moveset that I'm defending, it's the character. Marth is a Japanese style Bishounen swordsman. Does that sound like Ike to you? I still don't think that Ike is as important to the series as Marth, because I believe that a games roots are the most important factor for spots. FE1 was a great way to start of the series and Marth even helped save the series after FE2 turned out to be a let down.

Marth is not a Japanese only character and I don't understand that arguement. Marth has been a worldwide character since Melee's release and every single person who plays Melee around the world knows him.

FE: Radiant Dawn already has a rep in Brawl. Ike can easily represent PoR and Radiant Dawn because he's the main character in both. I'd rather have multiple games represented than having the latest game represented multiple times. Marth represents the series as a whole because he's been popular for over 10 years. He's not an old character, he's a living legend.

 

[OysterMeister]

Wow, this new list is different.

I agree that Luigi will get the vacuum cleaner makeover, although as a luigi main I hope he doesn't change too terribly much. At least to his air moves, since now that I think about it the only special move of Luigi's I'd mourn the loss of is his down special.
Still, I agree that there's no way that Mario get's the FLUDD without Luigi getting his vacuum. Also, Mario's FLUDD: A move that pushes people with no damage. Luigi's Vacuum: a move that pulls people with no damage? Makes sense to me.

I also agree that Pokemon has seen the last of it's newcomers in Poke Trainer. Seriously, we've just been handed three new characters (yes, Wiseguy is right and PT counts as three, deal with it), why is there so much speculation over who the fourth will be? How many pokemon have to be added to sate the Poke-lust of the Poke-fanatics?

Geno over Bowser Jr. is a little weird, but I can see Sakurai doing something like that. I mean, Wario seemed like an obvious choice, and yet Ice Climbers made it into Melee and he didn't. Go figure.

Marth is still left out? Seriously? Ice Climbers make the leap from Melee to Brawl, heck, SHIEK makes the jump from Melee to Brawl, but not Marth? That seems a little odd, doesn't it? I know you think Ike will replace Marth to some degree, so that must be what you're thinking here, but it just seems to me that Ike wielding a sword with a large tip seems like a mighty shaky argument to base the removal of a character off of.

As for Sonic... remember: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Sure, we haven't heard anything about Sonic, but we haven't heard anything of Snake either since that second trailer. You can't even find a screen shot or profile of him on the Dojo, which is really odd considering that he's a confirmed character. So I wouldn't rule out Sonic just because we haven't heard about it yet. I mean, we only just got confirmation of freakin' WI-FI PLAY a few days ago.
Also remember that SEGA and Nintendo have already gone into talks with each other concerning their respective characters. Surly the two companies couldn't have done all the paperwork necessary for Sonic and Mario to go to the Olympics and not have considered Brawl?

And finally: Sheik. It's nice that you've semi-agreed with me, but don't feel so down about it, as it's highly unlikely that Sheik will return unchanged. Aside from some much needed balancing work for the plucky spud (which is likely, just look at Fox), Sakurai seems to be handling character transformations differently this time around. Just taking what was done with Poke Trainer as an example, it's possible that Zelda has powerful magic that weakens the more she uses it, while sheik gets more and more physically exhausted as she fights, dictating that the characters have to be switched out fairly regularly to keep them at effective levels.

 

[raphtmarqui]

Why no Lucario?: Because Pokemon Trainer has unique 3 movesets, that's why. 6 unique characters is a big improvement over the 3 characters and 1 clone in Melee. The return of Jiggs and Mewtwo is a bad omen for Lucario and any more Pokemon newcomers.]

I think u need to realize the difference between 1 character and 1 rep.

Sonic? SONIC?! WHERE'S SONIC?!?!: Konami has already demonstrated that they are open to including their characters.

So has SEGA, Mario and Sonic at the Olymics shows that the are open to the idea of Sonic in a nintendo game.

Also u cant really believe deep down in your heart the Marths Falchion sword as the FE icon for Brawl means absolutly nothing. Mabe its not a direct confirmation of Marth but at the very least it makes his chances higher than any other FE character.

Marth is not a Japanese only character and I don't understand that arguement. Marth has been a worldwide character since Melee's release and every single person who plays Melee around the world knows him.

Thats a good point

 

[O D I N]

Honestly, I think Lucario's chances went up today.

Reasoning is because with Piplup as a pokeball, that means that MORE 4th gen pokemon are being added.

And I view pokemon trainer as 1 character. Same as Zelda. :-/

 

[OysterMeister]

I think u need to realize the difference between 1 character and 1 rep.

So Poke Trainer is a single 'rep' because his is the only icon that would appear on the character select screen? But look at the icon select screen for wi-fi play. Poke Trainer, Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur are all selectable. Doesn't that make Poke Trainer four reps? Sweet Jesus, now we've got seven pokemon characters in Brawl!

But seriously, I'm unsure of the mechanics of 'repping' a series. Samus represented the Metroid series just fine on her own in Melee. She was one 'rep'. But now she has Zamus as well, so that's two characters, and thus two 'reps', but still considered only one 'rep' under the rules as I understand them. Does this mean that Samus now only counts as half a 'rep', that her original 'rep' depreciated in value? OR does is mean that Samus retains all of her original 'rep', and Zamus doesn't count as a 'rep' at all?

And what does that mean for Poke Trainer? Four characters, three movesets, one 'rep'. So do Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur each count for only one third of a 'rep'? If that's true, then the trainer himself isn't a rep at all, which can't be because he's the focus of the character. So perhaps the trainer, Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur are all one fourth of a 'rep' each, or maybe Poke Trainer HIMSELF is just one 'rep' and his Pokemon are left out in the cold.
But THAT opens up Pandora's box. Because if the trainer counts as a 'rep', but has no moveset, then 'rep' is based on appearances, and not playability. Which means that each Pokeball Pokemon must also count as a 'rep', at least partially. So how many reps are there in Brawl? We've seen, what, about 5 pokeball pokemon so far, and with the seven reps we've already got for pokemon, that comes to 12 reps! Sweet, sugar-coated Jebus! 12 reps! How many does this series need! Things are getting pretty crazy here...

Or of course the whole concept of a 'rep' being seperate from a moveset might be total pig swill. That's also a possibility.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

So Poke Trainer is a single 'rep' because his is the only icon that would appear on the character select screen? But look at the icon select screen for wi-fi play. Poke Trainer, Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur are all selectable. Doesn't that make Poke Trainer four reps? Sweet Jesus, now we've got seven pokemon characters in Brawl!

But seriously, I'm unsure of the mechanics of 'repping' a series. Samus represented the Metroid series just fine on her own in Melee. She was one 'rep'. But now she has Zamus as well, so that's two characters, and thus two 'reps', but still considered only one 'rep' under the rules as I understand them. Does this mean that Samus now only counts as half a 'rep', that her original 'rep' depreciated in value? OR does is mean that Samus retains all of her original 'rep', and Zamus doesn't count as a 'rep' at all?

And what does that mean for Poke Trainer? Four characters, three movesets, one 'rep'. So do Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur each count for only one third of a 'rep'? If that's true, then the trainer himself isn't a rep at all, which can't be because he's the focus of the character. So perhaps the trainer, Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur are all one fourth of a 'rep' each, or maybe Poke Trainer HIMSELF is just one 'rep' and his Pokemon are left out in the cold.
But THAT opens up Pandora's box. Because if the trainer counts as a 'rep', but has no moveset, then 'rep' is based on appearances, and not playability. Which means that each Pokeball Pokemon must also count as a 'rep', at least partially. So how many reps are there in Brawl? We've seen, what, about 5 pokeball pokemon so far, and with the seven reps we've already got for pokemon, that comes to 12 reps! Sweet, sugar-coated Jebus! 12 reps! How many does this series need! Things are getting pretty crazy here...

Or of course the whole concept of a 'rep' being seperate from a moveset might be total pig swill. That's also a possibility.

Pokemon Trainer is one rep. You kinda figured it out on your own. I consider Zelda and Sheik in Melee as half-a-rep each, so I'd consider Zamus and Samus half-a-rep each too, cause they are the same person and the same selectable character.

And yes, the Pokeball Pokemons are reps, but they are NPC reps, just like Assist Trophies.

 

[the grim lizard]

Wiseguy, I commend your new list. It is a lot more feasible than before. Since you've added M2 back and included Falco at least partially, I'll have to give you some credit. And you have Sheik on your list?? *gasp!* I'm in shock. I still think you should have left BF on your list, though, but it is at least good that you put G&W back on there.

Anyway, I really like the new images you have for all of them. Nice touch.

 

[Copperpot]

I think u need to realize the difference between 1 character and 1 rep.

Well, I do agree with you for the most part, but you have to consider that Wise is creating his list based on a few self-founded rules. His goal is to create a 40-character roster that counts a character by moveset, not by story, appearance, or gameplay.

I really don't see much of a point in it, though. With all of these extra features and game modes being revealed, it's not any stretch of the imagination to say that the team behind Brawl has more than enough time to do whatever they want, and don't even bring the development of Melee into this. Melee's team and resources pale in comparison to Brawl's.

To put in short, if Sakurai wants to put 40-50 characters on the character selection screen, regardless of how many movesets or transformations involved, he will do it. There's no reason why he can't this time around. I think fans are being way too paranoid about Melee's "shortcomings" due to the lack of personell and development time.

It'll be different this time. Hell, it already is.

So has SEGA, Mario and Sonic at the Olymics shows that the are open to the idea of Sonic in a nintendo game.

Correction: It shows that Nintendo is open to putting their characters in a SEGA game, not necessarily the other way around.

Also u can really believe deep down in your heart the Marths Falchion sword as the FE icon for Brawl means absolutly nothing. Mabe its not a direct confirmation of Marth but at the very least it makes his chances higher than any other FE character.

My assumption is that Sakurai is leaving the FE symbol as it was in Melee for the sake of consistency. There's really no reason to change it since it does, in a sense, do a decent job of representing the series while still paying homage to the game that started it all.

 

[Legolastom]

Wiseguy, I commend your new list. It is a lot more feasible than before. Since you've added M2 back and included Falco at least partially, I'll have to give you some credit. And you have Sheik on your list?? *gasp!* I'm in shock. I still think you should have left BF on your list, though, but it is at least good that you put G&W back on there.

Anyway, I really like the new images you have for all of them. Nice touch.

Hey Grim you got my PM?

Anyways im expecting at least 2 more Pokemon reps ATM.

 

[Dynamism]

better yes, but this...

1. Geno will not make it over MM and Sonic, neither will Simon. Bowser Jr. could take Genos spot in the Mario place and Simon can open 1 of those 40 slots for Falco and Wolf to both fit.

2. PT doesn't count as three. Lucario can be the "5th" Poke rep. He's got enough support and fame.

3. BK and Micaiah will take Marths place? Wasn't Marth THE FIRST! Marth could easily overthrow them, especially considering he was already in melee. Micaiah can take the other open slot from PTs excess 2.

4. Sonic is on the bottom when you count them but you don't mention him in the first place. Why?

5. Kirby and MEATKnight? lol

6. CSLink over Midna.

7. **** Falco, Go Claus!

8. (I know you're limiting yourself to 40 and this is out of the question but...) RETRO is sooooo in right now !

That's right, I quoted myself

For this is all I find wrong.

grim lizard - Sheik has a good chance of being in. And YES TO BF!
Although he gave himself a limit and BF didn't make his cut.

 

[Shadowplusle]

I really like this new list, i especially like the fact that, jigglypuff, mewtwo, and sukapon made it on the list and ofcourse that Ridley stayed on the list makes me even more excited to play this smash bros game. its going to rock. Anyway, doesnt anybody think that they should add a fourth and third season pokemon rep for PC list? i know a lot of you are upset at the amount already on the list but put your hate aside and think about it. thank you

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

i find that char at the bottom could be possible if g&w is in it he wont be the wtf char but mabye this guy can..with the aperance on the poll his chances could be higher im i wrong?

 

[Arteen]

2) Issac
...
Comments: You'll have to forgive my poor knowlege of the Golden Sun series (as I've
never played any of it's games) but even I have to admit that Issac stands pretty good
shot at appearing in Brawl. He was the protagonist in the first Golden Sun game, which
was both very popular and critically acclaimed, and he appeared on Sakurai's poll. The
character is currently owned by Camelot, but since they have such a strong partnership
with Nintendo (they made games like Mario Tennis and Golf after all) Sakurai would
likely have no problem obtaining the rights to the character.
...

Actually, Nintendo owns the full rights to Isaac (you also need to fix your spelling of his name). He better be in the game.

Copyrights of Game, Scenario, and Program reserved by NINTENDO and CAMELOT. Copyrights of all characters and music reserved by NINTENDO.

 

[Dynamism]

Suikapon? He might not be wtf?! He's almost expected by a majority.
Chiritory though...oh my...

Does anyone know who (what) that is?
VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT to Nintendo!

 

[Numa Dude]

I just noticed you actually don't still have 5 third party reps. This list still fails though due to no Marth and no second F-Zero character.

 

[Copperpot]

Well, technically it doesn't "fail" until Sakurai pulls a crazy card and reveals Marth or a second F-Zero rep . . .

Right now there's about an equal amount of evidence to argue either way.

Example:

Prosecution: "We have evidence stating that Marth has not been announced as a playable character! This illustrates that he must not be coming back!"

Defendant: "Oh yeah? We have evidence stating that Marth has not been announced as a playable character yet. He could still be in!"

Jury rules in favor of:

The people that stay out of pointless arguments like this. I know, I know. I'm guilty, but someone had to say it.

 

[Chidosengan]

This is really a well put character prediction thread. But keep in mind, there is no way this will be accurate.

AND SUIKUPON OVER MY SWEET BELOVED RAY?!?! THIS IS MADNESS!!!!one!!!!1!!

 

[Conker1]

Your list is much better now Wiseguy!

I have very few arguments.

I really do believe Falco has priority over both Krystal and Wolf. Think of it this way, doesn't Luigi have priority over Bowser and Peach?

Ness will be in the game, Sakurai knows Ness is far more popular than Lucas in America.

WW Link will, hopefully, not be in the game. He'd be a complete waste of a slot, as Link is already in the game.

Marth will be in the game, Sakurai has no reason to get rid of him. Black Knight and Miciaiah are both overated by this board, I didn't even see any Miciaiah support until after Lyn was deconfirmed. Sakurai doesn't seem to care if a character has appeared in a recent game or not.

For some reason, I don't think Simon Belmont is all that likely.

But as I said, this list is far better than your old list, and proabably one of the best lists I've seen on this forum.

 

[raphtmarqui]

Correction: It shows that Nintendo is open to putting their characters in a SEGA game, not necessarily the other way around.

w/e. The point was that Sega isnt going to shoot Sakurai in the head if he asks them to allow him to put Sonic in Brawl

My assumption is that Sakurai is leaving the FE symbol as it was in Melee for the sake of consistency. There's really no reason to change it since it does, in a sense, do a decent job of representing the series while still paying homage to the game that started it all.

Come on now, i doubt the would think that Marths sword is more important than the character itself

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

This is really a well put character prediction thread. But keep in mind, there is no way this will be accurate.

AND SUIKUPON OVER MY SWEET BELOVED RAY?!?! THIS IS MADNESS!!!!one!!!!1!!

Well duh, because Suka pwns everyone!!! (Note: I hate that word but I think it was appropriate)

 

[Girl]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write this. It is well written and actually makes sense

 

[Phaazoid]

It's a question of having either A clone or a unique character. Clones require less time to program than unique characters, so you are actually getting a number of clones (let's say 3) for every original character sacrificed - so cloning alows for far more characters to appear in the game than could otherwise be included.

Sheik is the same person as the Zelda in Oracarina of Time, which is a different individual entirely from the Zelda in Twilight Princess. Having TP Zelda transform into Sheik makes about as much sense as having princess Peach transform into Sheik (i.e: none).

You may not want clones in Brawl, but I do. I want as many characters to choose from as possible.

HOORAY FOR CLONES!!!

Join me in my cloney ways, Samusrules93 and together we can rule the galaxy! (Of course, when I say "we" I mean me. You can have one of Pluto's moons.)

Fair enough.
Sheik has only appeared in a single Zelda game and is therefore unworthy of a second appearance.

hahaha, now shiek is on the list and you have no clones on it. EAT YOUR WORDS!!!

Comments: Before Ice Climbers were confirmed, I was convinced that Sakurai would cut every character he possibly could to make way more newcomers. Of course, then these stupid Eskimos had to come along and destroy my carefully constructed theory…

and isn't this what i argued from the biggining? no ccutting of anyone but clones like doc and ww link and pichu and roy. yet you still have marth off your list... i'd replace him with wwlink/wolflinkmidna.

nice to see you've come to your senses wisey. get ready to EAT THE SIG I FOUND FOR YOU when shiek is updated.

 

[Dynamism]

http://vally8.free.fr/jeux/papermario/images/mario04.jpg

BAM!

http://www.themushroomkingdom.net/images/sms/sms_bowser_jr.jpg

 

[O D I N]

You droppped Mega Man?!?!

 

[Phaazoid]

megaman rules... he's in my list. and wiseguy, if you wanna see your shiek sig, i'll pm it to you. just ask ...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

...I wasted saying a word I hate and no one notices

 

[Phaazoid]

@post above.

???????????

 

[Sculelos]

I'd actually be happy if your list was what Brawls roster is. Although I still hope there is at least one character that will catch me offgaurd since the only one that did is the pokemon trainer so far.

 

[O D I N]

I predict our next character update will either be...

-Ridley
-Snake
-Isaac
-Something out of left field... like Olimar (no offense wise, but this would be left field for me)

 

[Dave the Perspicacious]

I predict our next character update will either be...

-Ridley
-Snake
-Isaac
-Something out of left field... like Olimar (no offense wise, but this would be left field for me)

I am quite hopeful for a character update to finish up the week. I would love to see Isaac, but me thinks Ridley is due an appearance soon. Then again who am I to predict anything Sakurai might throw at us...

EDIT: A couple of the links to movesets do not appear to be valid...

 

[garbage]

Skull kid is awesome to be sure, but his appearance in Twilight Princess is significantly less Brawl worthy than the Majora's Mask wearing villian he once was. Hopefully, he will appear as a hazard in a Lost Woods themed map.

As for Vatti, he may have been top dog in LoZ: the Minish Cap but Twilight Princess is the latest and greatest Zelda game. This makes an awesome charcater like Midna far more likely, in my opinion.

Anyway, I'm curious what you think of my roster Numa Dude. What would ou rate it out of ten?

OOOOoooh, that was the skull kid? Controlling those ******** wood-monkey things that respawned? Twilight Princess was my first Zelda game, but I knew all about Majora's Mask. Just not that skull kid looked like that.

 

[Bassoonist]

I would think that Isaac and Olimar have a higher chance of being tonight's update then Snake and Ridley. They seem like unlockable characters to me... In fact, Snake IS an unlockable character.

Isaac for tonight's update! (as long as it's a character update and NOT an AT update. o_O)

 

[Dave the Perspicacious]

OOOOoooh, that was the skull kid? Controlling those ******** wood-monkey things that respawned? Twilight Princess was my first Zelda game, but I knew all about Majora's Mask. Just not that skull kid looked like that.

I reccomend you play through them all, maybe not Links Adventure, but MOST definitely A Link to the Past, Ocarina of time, Link's awakening, Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Minish Cap. In fact, yeah go play them all. They all rock :D

 

[raphtmarqui]

I would think that Isaac and Olimar have a higher chance of being tonight's update then Snake and Ridley. They seem like unlockable characters to me... In fact, Snake IS an unlockable character.

Isaac for tonight's update! (as long as it's a character update and NOT an AT update. o_O)

I would assassinate Sakurai if Issac was an AT

 

[Dynamism]

My sig has been correct on all accounts so far aside from Olimar, who I thought would start and the ICs unlockable. But that was just a dumb prediction on my part and I now beleive Olimar will be unlockable.



Maybe Saki will show us an unlockable before he finishes the starting roster.
Kind of like a How To Play regarding Unlocking. And it'll show Snake being unlocked O_O

 

[jimmysilverrims]

I don't care what ever you say, youv'e altered your list so much that's it's hardly a list, more of a haphazard guess thrown into a drunken order.

To Sonic. WTF!! Sonic is the ONLY 3rd Party character who is almost certain to get in Brawl. Much, much higher than Geno's chances. Sheik!? Again, I doubt him getting in and your blasphemy astounds me. Bowser Jr. has more of a chance then Geno. He's a MArio and Geno hasn't been in a new game for decades, that and he's a third party character.

This list is now no longer amazing or astounding. Just because of the ONE addition of the Ice Climbers you mutilate the list into a slapped together pile of predictions. You should be ashamed. ASHAMED!

'Nuff F*@$N' said!

 

[Dynamism]

I don't care what ever you say, youv'e altered your list so much that's it's hardly a list, more of a haphazard guess thrown into a drunken order.

To Sonic. WTF!! Sonic is the ONLY 3rd Party character who is almost certain to get in Brawl. Much, much higher than Geno's chances. Sheik!? Again, I doubt him getting in and your blasphemy astounds me. Bowser Jr. has more of a chance then Geno. He's a MArio and Geno hasn't been in a new game for decades, that and he's a third party character.

This list is now no longer amazing or astounding. Just because of the ONE addition of the Ice Climbers you mutilate the list into a slapped together pile of predictions. You should be ashamed. ASHAMED!

'Nuff F*@$N' said!

HAHAHA Wiseguys #1 fan?

Geno does have less of a chance than Bowser Jr. Even Paper Mario!
Sonic and Megaman are all but guaranteed as the ONLY 3rd Parties considered.
Sheik however, still stands a fighting chance.

HAHAHA! F*@$N' list omg!

 

[Copperpot]

I don't care what ever you say, youv'e altered your list so much that's it's hardly a list, more of a haphazard guess thrown into a drunken order.

Isn't that what it was before?

To Sonic. WTF!! Sonic is the ONLY 3rd Party character who is almost certain to get in Brawl. Much, much higher than Geno's chances. Sheik!? Again, I doubt him getting in and your blasphemy astounds me. Bowser Jr. has more of a chance then Geno. He's a MArio and Geno hasn't been in a new game for decades, that and he's a third party character.

I fail to see how everyone manages to make this assumption. Has every Sonic fan's hopes and dreams made them blind to the possibility that Sonic just might not be in Brawl? He's a character that needs to go through the development process like anyone else. There is no magic Brawl Roster Angel that blesses certain characters with instant confirmation.

And on the comment about Geno: Geno may have not been in a game for 10-15 years, but at least he has been in a good game over that period of time. That's more than I can say about some characters who's franchises have been abused and beaten black and blue . . . *cough* Sonic *cough* Bomberman (ZERO) *cough*

This list is now no longer amazing or astounding. Just because of the ONE addition of the Ice Climbers you mutilate the list into a slapped together pile of predictions. You should be ashamed. ASHAMED!

'Nuff F*@$N' said!

I'm sure it is more in relation to the theory that if the Ice Climbers can overcome such adversity and make it back into the roster, then generally every character with a unique moveset is pretty much safe. I, however, think it was more personal preference (in contrast to trying to please fans) that Sakurai added the ICs back in. He seems like the kind of guy that would have some attachment to quirky characters like them.

 

[User33]

Now you list is very realistic, and I can see this list happening on almost every front. People may be upset because they no longer have their favourite character, but this list is very realistic and could very well happen.