Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Arteen]

I think he’s in my runners up. I wouldn’t mind seeing him make the cut, but between Geno and Sora he has some stiff competition.

Crono deserves it so much more than Geno and Sora.

 

[Ginger9001]

Crono deserves it so much more than Geno and Sora.

Everyone has their different opinions on who deserves it more. For me, I would love to see Crono and Sora. Although I loved the game, I never got to know Geno that well since I never had gotten far in Super Mario RPG. He's still cool though, and wouldn't mind seeing him in Brawl either. xD

 

[Machspeed]

Sorry, I took so long to respond to this one dude….

Very well reasoned argument, I must say.

Being the main antagonist in the series, I agree that the character is certainly important enough to justify an inclusion. Your point about DK being underrepresented at this point is perfectly valid, as is your point about the similarly underrepresented Kirby series getting 3 reps (though it’s worth noting that the Kirby series is near and dear to Sakurai’s heart).

But is DK still a leading franchise for Nintendo? Given the recently released abomination Donkey Kong Bongo Blast it seems like the company just doesn’t value the franchise like it used to.

Plus, your point about Bowser attacking the Kongs in the SSE vids is an interesting point I hadn’t really considered. Even if Bowser is helping his fellow reptile king pin, why is it that Goombas and Koopa Troopas are the grunts doing the dirty work? The level they are in seems to be DK themed, so why no Kremlins? One explanation is that Boswer is pulling double duty as both Mario and the Kong’s rival.

To me, the determining factor for whether K. Rool makes the cut is if he is unique enough to compete. You certainly make some strong points for this being the case (I think the helicopter is a nice touch) but to me it isn’t quite enough to make me think he’s a contender in a 36 character roster. Increase the number to 40, and I could definitely see it happening. Any more than that and his presence is all but guaranteed I suspect. That’s how I see it, anyway.

I’m glad you enjoyed my prediction and took the time to construct such a well made argument. As we approach the final unveiling of the final roster, we’ll see if you’re right about K. Rool.

It's okay, I'm in no rush for a response, but thanks for responding. We will see in about a month from now.

 

[Elysium]

I think These guys were cooler than geno in SMRPG.
Axem Rangers

They made the concept of the Power Rangers cool, and didn't have to be shown on Saturday morning too.

Besides Geno was (if I remember correctly) getting beat by Bowyer until mario came in a saved him.

What would happen in Brawl when Mario isn't there to save him?

Oh noez, don't flame me cuz I'm bashing Geno. This post doesn't even count as an argument, so don't take it as such.

... ... The Axem Rangers were cool though, and their ship would make a cool stage for Brawl.

 

[Machspeed]

Nah, if you played the game correctly, Geno back-handed Bowyer real nice, and was beating up on him. Mario just wanted to pitch in along with Mallow.

I want to see Forest Maze as a stage or perhaps Smithy's factory.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Maybe you’re right. Sakurai decides to go with the popular reps from the older games and includes Ness and Marth INSTEAD OF Claus and Miciah. Maybe I’ll edit the old list right now… (I kid, I kid.)

Seriously though, I really think that:

A) A new retro franchise character is more essential to the roster than a second FE character, and Tak is an incredibly likely candidate.

and

B) If Tak makes the cut and a second FE character is included, they won’t include another speedy swordfighter over the incredibly unique Miciaiah. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

HOWEVER if a another retro character other than Tak (perhaps Sukupon) makes it AND a second FE character is needed, Marth is very likely. OR, if a third FE character makes the cut Marth is guaranteed no matter what. That’s my theory, anyway. We’ll see hoe it turns out.

Actually FYI Ness isn't even that popular in japan anymore while Marth has had 3 Remakes? Lolwut? Ness's remake wasn't even popular and if i can remember right Lucas placed 1# On a poll for most popular Mother character while Ness was below the top 5 (And claus was above also.) Michiah is a totally different story with marth, It's highly straying away from the subject.

A) A Second FE Rep is happening, Mark my words wise, Seriously you can spam my PM Box if i'm wrong but i can 99% Confirm it, Seriously even IF They go down to 35 I'm sure it's still probable, Again FE Has grown Double since Melee and it got two reps in Melee AND Half of the series has went international .
Another Retro? Heck no, We already have 3 And Geno, And probably a lot of other people that some won't know who they are (Falcon, Lucas, It goes on...) Not before a 2nd FE Slot.

B)Yes Because ike can't be in because link is super heavy [/sarcasm] And how heavy would takamaru be anyhow?

Really as i said Sukapon is seeming more likely and probable at this point *Points to the melee and brawl poll results just for the heck of it.* And also a third FE Rep is very probable, On a 40 Character roster? Gah! Just cut off midna and JR The Useless and put in Falco and Marth, Give two more slots to ACer and Paper mario then that's a rap, Simple AMIRITE? It would sell many copies well (MArth's game and Radiant dawn.) But really, It depends on what they choose, I'm starting to doubt takamaru but this "Theory" Seems so far-fetched altogether, We'll just have to see *Laughs if christmas update is Marth or Takamaru as an AT Or sukapon is announced playable* I Will die inside of laughter if that happens, Seriously.

 

[Stealth309]

Rofl, gamefaqs board.

Because those boards are so special he comes and tells you personally Geno will not be in right?

[/sarcasm]

You phail for believing a Sakurai fraud on the gamefaqs boards.

Um... actually, someone else just posted up Sakurai's letter to the bpoard. Some other user did. So.. I'm not exactly the one who phails.

 

[Machspeed]

For believing it, yes you do still phail.

 

[Numa Dude]

Ho Ho Ho, Merry Christmas!

 

[jimmysilverrims]

This update was of meh quality. We got an update to something we all already knew, but we got some music that hints to the all coveted Sonic themed stage. Still, for a Chistamas update, pretty lackluster, but then again, not everyone celebrates that particular holiday.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE, MERRRY CHRISTMAHANKWANZADAN!!

 

[Nintendo_Rockstar]

No Marth... and no Falco = FAIL!

 

[Tatanga4Brawl]

MERRY HANURAMAKWANZMAS, EVERYONE!!! Falco I can live without... as long as there is Wolf O'Donnell!
Oh, and Tatanga. He would make me like the game even without any other characters.

 

[legendofme]

Crono is teh best!!!

Crono deserves it so much more than Geno and Sora.

Crono is the best RPG character known to man. Kick *ss, saves the world, knows how to do things ahead of time without prior experience, and all of this he never says a word.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

This update was of meh quality. We got an update to something we all already knew, but we got some music that hints to the all coveted Sonic themed stage. Still, for a Chistamas update, pretty lackluster, but then again, not everyone celebrates that particular holiday.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE, MERRRY CHRISTMAHANKWANZADAN!!

there was also a blatent mention that the music is from the game where knuckles first appeared, perhaps implying that he may make an appearance.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You people fail to realize that not everyone that deserves it will be in Brawl and not everyone in Brawl deserves to be in...at least by YOUR opinion on the matter

 

[Devastlian]

I disagree. Having a tagteam PC like Midna/Wolf is something we just haven’t seen in Smash before: two characters who each lend their respective abilities into one moveset. I still say combining an agile four legged fighter with poor jumps and strong biting attacks with a magic imp would be mindblowingly unique.

Ya but, while we haven't had a two characters that are both responsible for moves in one moveset, it doesn't really accomplish anything new. It'd be purely aesthetic and just different variables.

I could see Lucario replacing Mewtwo, but I lack the knowledge of the series to make that call. We’ll see.

It's hard to really say. Affirmative action and newness says Lucario has a chance but most of the fan believed criteria puts Mewtwo ahead. Both are fine with me even though I feel more attached to Mewtwo.

Like I said, this list is final. I will let the chips fall where they may and take my lumps with each deconfirmation.

I think his niche status actually works for Tak. No one knows who he is, so he’s perfect for a WTF character. Same with Geno, really.

Eh...Don't get me wrong I love the game and would love to see him in SSBB but he just isn't on par with Mr. G&W to justify it that much. Mr. G&W was a tribute to the guy that was responsible for a lot of early Nintendo stuff and Takamaru's just another protagonist for another retro game. Takamaru'd get in as another retro character and to complete the Famicom Four and whatever but he doesn't really have much of a deeper meaning to be the final hidden character. Non-Japanese people and newer gamers might say WTF when they see him just 'cause they have no idea who he is until they Wiki his game but that's about it for WTF factor.

Lucas only has one cloned move?

Plus, the latest trailer shows him swinging a bat. Maybe Ness will pull through against all odds, but I until we see clones appear my guess would be not.

...Ya. Those aren't cloned. They just have a similar effect. The movements Lucas does is what matters for this sort of thing. Ness thrusts is fingers forward for PK Fire and Lucas does a little hadoken thing etc. Copy and pasting and touching up the little lightning and PSI magnet graphics aren't really that tasking compared to making up a brand new set of motions.

I checked all of the moves Lucas has done and the only one that's like Ness' is the stick swinging thing (because I can't find anything where I can really look at it; PSI Magnet's pretty close but it is a noticeably different pose). Other than that, none of Lucas' other A moves match Ness' and we've seen, like, seven of them and there're a lot more animations they'd have to make than the seventeen or so moves people make up for the typical fan made moveset...so it's hard to really tell.

Actually, his grab being different breaks the clone mold from SSBM and, even if the rest of his moves are cloned, he seems to be less of a clone than Luigi was already. ...But I'm not really saying that guarantees a whole lot. He could very well replace Ness anyway. I just don't believe a few remixed specials prove anything and most of the characters have a random move that resembles another character's.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

hey anyone else notice that trophy stands are basically just pokeballs for the subspace? and does it defeat the boss/enemy?

 

[Ginger9001]

hey anyone else notice that trophy stands are basically just pokeballs for the subspace? and does it defeat the boss/enemy?

Yes. And good question.

 

[Copperpot]

I know this is a bit late, Jimmy, but I just wanted to apologize for the lashing-out. I had a rough Christmas Eve.

At any rate, on to the debate!

Thanks, and I feel that you always colaborate your statements in an encouraging and constructivve format too.

What can I say? I try . . . I try . . .

Sure, I infact see at least one of them getting in too, but the fact is that between the three fo them put together they don't have even half the chance as other characters put on the must have list, like Olimar, or Ridley, but are liseted as such. I realize that one could potentially get in, hey, SSB is known for being unpredictable. However, it is not rediculously random game either, and all of the facts point against these characters, all they hold is a wild card of Sakurai's intrest, and even that can be trumped by a great number of forces, that include, but are not limited to, third party ownership, lack of recognisability, butchering physics and timelines, price, and marketability.

Agreed. Didn't expect that, did you?!

There are a ton of benchmarks that need to be hurdled by each of these characters. Unfortunately, we are unable to tell which ones are set higher than the others; however, suffice it to say that any one of these borders will be harder to cross than those of Ridley and Olimar. So, essentially, you're right. There's not too much to argue here.

Sigh, for the final time everybody: I like Geno! He's a **** good character, and the possibility of seeing him brough back to Brawly glory would be, in a word, sweet. I thought Sheik was a cool character in Melee, crazy strong, but with unique moves, and the ninjatasticness won me over, as I really wanted to see Sheik fight in Oot, but didn't, so seeing Sheik in Melee was pretty freekin' cool. I don't know much on Takamaru, but he (she?) looks like they'd bring a very unique samurai style to sword fighting.

Again, not much to argue here. You're response was pretty much instigated by my ill reply anyways. I know that you like Geno. We just happen to gauge his odds a bit differently.

As far as Takamaru is concerned, you and I are pretty much on the same page.

All of those characters sound awesome to play as, and trust me, if they get in I'll play them all, but the thing is I try not to be bias and pull away frm my opinion and look at the facts, and currently, all of the facts are telling me no.

Come on, Jimmy. All of them?

But really, I totally understand. There is a lot of dust and dirt to brush off of these characters before they begin to look like respectable fighters.

Regardless, I still think that, despite my dismay, Sheik will be playable.

I try not to complain much, and I'm kinda figuring out that this list is never going to change, but debate is what keeps this thread alive, and I like debating, if that makes me seem repetitive, I'm sorry, but it's all in good fun.

While you are repetitive, it's not necessarily a bad thing. At least you stick to your guns, whereas a lot of people would otherwise change their tune (including me).

Hey, the chances are... a 40 roster, minus the 16 confirmed, that's 40^24, so...2.81474976710656e+38 : 1, that's good odds, right? Right!? Nah, I know that it's a billion times easier to be wrong than right, especially in this instance, but it is possible, and wishful thinking can't possibly be a crime... right?

Well, nobody can expect to be completely right under these circumstances. Wiseguy's made that abundantly clear.

And stop that wishing, or Smithy will come for you! Mwahahahahaha!

Eh, true enough, alright, I'll stop bothering Wisey, but what else am I supposed to do here besides discussing the roster?

Meh, as long as he's willing to continue debating, I say continue to pester.

I don't think it will do much good, though. He seems just as set in his ways as you are.

...

Kirbowser

Diddedede!

 

[Numa Dude]

Todays update was great. Going back to collect all the enemy trophies will add a ton of replay value.

 

[Copperpot]

I definately agree. The SSE is looking to be more and more appealing with each passing update. I didn't think that much could distract me from Smash Bros' multiplayer mayhem, let alone the Smash Bros single player.

 

[Arteen]

...Ya. Those aren't cloned. They just have a similar effect. The movements Lucas does is what matters for this sort of thing. Ness thrusts is fingers forward for PK Fire and Lucas does a little hadoken thing etc. Copy and pasting and touching up the little lightning and PSI magnet graphics aren't really that tasking compared to making up a brand new set of motions.

Cloned moves are always different but with a similar effect, and new animations (New animations for a new character in a new game?) are expected. Ness can easily be replaced without Lucas necessarily being cut-and-paste the same. Lucas is a distinct character from Ness, so it seems perfectly alright to me to significantly change some of Ness's moves to rebalance the character. Even Mario's down-B was changed, so I'm not surprised that some of Lucas's moves are different than Ness's. Ness is gone.

 

[Elysium]

Pokeballs of subspace....

*Wild Petey Prianha appears*
*Mario uses Forward Smash*
-It's super effective-
*Petey Prianha uses Bite*
-Petey Prianha's attack misses-
*Mario uses Trophy Stand*
*Mario catches Wild Petey Prianha*

 

[Ginger9001]

Todays update was great. Going back to collect all the enemy trophies will add a ton of replay value.

True dat' homie.

 

[Tatanga4Brawl]

I am OK, now.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

You know...I Feel like writing a huge rant to wisenubguy on why Paper Mario is moar deseriving then Bowser Jr And how he better edit it to put Paper Mario and him or Paper Maro to have that slot...This should be good.

I'll be done with it in a second.(Or soon XD.)

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

You know...I Feel like writing a huge rant to wisenubguy on why Paper Mario is moar deseriving then Bowser Jr And how he better edit it to put Paper Mario and him or Paper Maro to have that slot...This should be good.

I'll be done with it in a second.(Or soon XD.)

well he says this is his final list till the game comes out so i dont think there will be any editing no matter what you say.

 

[Dynamism]

I haven't checked here in a while but it's about time I return.

Wiseguy -

1. I'm sooooo glad you have CSLink and Mewtwo in there. Too many people are hating on them.

2. Under Pokemon Trainer, you said "With" when I think it should be "Will" Just a spelling error.

3. I don't understand why you made a 3rd Party heavy 40 PC roster in there. Isn't that just like the runner up section again? Seems kind of redundant!

Devastlian / Wiseguy:

1. A PC with two characters helping eachother to form one MS would be a good idea but Ideals aren't enough. The methods have to match accordingly. Midna and WLink would be a good fit if but they don't have an actual duel ability that would make them unique. You might as well just throw any character in because the two in one feature becomes that of one.
Originally when the Dojo said Pit and Zamus SWITCH between weapon options, I thought that they actually switch MS slightly. A 3P character that would actually be great for this is Banjo & Kazooie. In fact, he is the only one that fits this ability. They only reason to add a character that is actually two combined would be if they acted like a possible two in one. A Zelda Sheik in a way. Possibly a stamina charge on one form to balance it.
If say, Midna could go in alone then have WLink aid her when she summons him or something, sure. Or Banjo switching to Kazooie as in who is walking, sure. Other than that, Devastlian said it first, it wouldn't really be anything new. :\

2. Options:
A) Lucas is a Ness clone
B) Ness will be completely redone
C) Ness is gone

Lucas is Ness copied and pasted. Picture Birdo appearing on the Dojo first and in the Brawl demo, everyone said "Birdo doesn't have a JC!!!!" That's basically how much of a diference there would have been between melee Ness and a Brawl Ness (had there been one) so Lucas is indeed what Ness would have been in this game.
Different effects on attacks are exactly what clones are. The other meaning of clone would be if they gave Falco completely different animations but his Jump, Dair, Shine, Lasers and EVERYTHING about Falco was just like Fox in how it reacted.
Lucas IS Brawl Ness. It's easy to look at a picture of Lucas and see him as a Ness alt colour.
And yes that sucks :\

3. G&W is almost as big a part a smash as Mario himself. And yet he WAS the WTF Character?!?! G&W gets more attention then almost every other veteran character. There is no real reason to remove him. And it's not like he's not important, considered lame or unpopular at this point.
Taka would be an excelent fit as well. I don't think he would be a wtf character but he would be as nice an addition as Pit. Possibly a Sheik with a sword as Jimmy and CTop say? Anyone?!?! No? Maybe that would be too much
Either way, why not have both? :\

jimmysilverrims / Coppertop:

1. Yes keep debating ****it

2. I used to think Geno and Mallow were shoe ins and was completely stoked for there inclusion in a third SSB. That was until I found out (from the boards) that they were indeed 3Ps. I have always liked them and have been in favor of there inclusion.
Honestly though, Megaman deserves a spot more, I'd like Bomberman in Brawl and Banjo is almost perfect to be a smash bro.
Geno would be a nice addition to the roster and would please alot of people. I don't think I've heard anyone say they don't want him other than the reason that he could take a 3P spot away from MM or someone else. If he does make the cut, great, if not, who knows. At the moment, every opinon doesn't matter and the facts can really only lead us NOWHERE. But Geno will continue to be a debate until then.
So until then, Banjo & Kazooie for Brawl!!!

 

[Thirdkoopa]

well he says this is his final list till the game comes out so i dont think there will be any editing no matter what you say.

I'll make him edit then !

Wait...What if Paper Mario for example get's confirmed? Then he has to deny it or what? XD.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

well it seems sakauri is on trophy update binge. two days of trophies. At least they have been new things and actually sorta cool. I like how hes making every single mode into a game. I wouldnt be suprised if the next update shows that the options mode has become a pinball type game.

 

[raphtmarqui]

I hope we have a good update tomorrow. A newcomer would be nice/

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

I hope we have a good update tomorrow. A newcomer would be nice/

It's doubtful that we'll get any more characters (newcomer or veteran) until Japan spoils everything for us...

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

i dunno he may slip something in, after all eventually he'll run out of "you must recover"-esque updates, and will have to start shelling out hte good stuff (or at least thats what i hope). I hope he at least reveals at least one more character, another stage or two, and mabye another se video. Other than that i dont care what comes as long as its new stuff.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

i dunno he may slip something in, after all eventually he'll run out of "you must recover"-esque updates, and will have to start shelling out hte good stuff (or at least thats what i hope). I hope he at least reveals at least one more character, another stage or two, and mabye another se video. Other than that i dont care what comes as long as its new stuff.

With less than a month left until Japan gets the game, I'm certain Sakurai can manage to hold us off a while longer.

 

[Devastlian]

Cloned moves are always different but with a similar effect, and new animations (New animations for a new character in a new game?) are expected. Ness can easily be replaced without Lucas necessarily being cut-and-paste the same. Lucas is a distinct character from Ness, so it seems perfectly alright to me to significantly change some of Ness's moves to rebalance the character. Even Mario's down-B was changed, so I'm not surprised that some of Lucas's moves are different than Ness's. Ness is gone.

The animation is only thing that has to do with cloned moves. I'm not arguing whether or not Lucas replaces Ness just if Lucas is a clone of Ness' SSBM form. And it's hard to call a character with more original animations for their moves than Luigi did in SSBM a clone.

2. Options:
A) Lucas is a Ness clone
B) Ness will be completely redone
C) Ness is gone

If A isn't true (which seems to be pretty obvious), then B doesn't have to be. So...there are more options than that.

Lucas is Ness copied and pasted. Picture Birdo appearing on the Dojo first and in the Brawl demo, everyone said "Birdo doesn't have a JC!!!!" That's basically how much of a diference there would have been between melee Ness and a Brawl Ness (had there been one) so Lucas is indeed what Ness would have been in this game.

WTF are talking about? A copy and paste job would have at least the majority of their animations identical.

Different effects on attacks are exactly what clones are. The other meaning of clone would be if they gave Falco completely different animations but his Jump, Dair, Shine, Lasers and EVERYTHING about Falco was just like Fox in how it reacted.
Lucas IS Brawl Ness. It's easy to look at a picture of Lucas and see him as a Ness alt colour.
And yes that sucks :\

That example with Falco would be the complete opposite of a cloned moveset. It's not so easy after you look at Lucas' moves and realize that maybe two are cloned. Out of about twelve and seventeen makes a moveset.

 

[Dynamism]

Doc throws pills, Mario throws fire...clones
Lucas shoots Ice, Ness shoots green?...clones

Look at Bowser. He is Brawl Bowser, not melee Bowser. Bowser may have changed but he's still the same general concept of character. If Ness were in Brawl, he would be different. Melee Ness and Brawl Ness would almost be the same, because they are the same concept. Animations of Bowsers moves changed, but they're the same moves.
Animations of Lucas' moves changed, but they are the same moves.
It is a copy paste of what a Brawl Ness would be that is Lucas

I'm still hoping for a redone Ness but wont be disapointed otherwise. Lucas is basically Ness in the format of this new game and criteria.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

eh i personally dont care bout clones. After all they are added after there is no more time for new characters so its not like they are taking anyone elses place. So i dont care the specifics of each clone. I say the more characters the merrier.

 

[Devastlian]

Doc throws pills, Mario throws fire...clones
Lucas shoots Ice, Ness shoots green?...clones

The fireball and pill are clones because the throwing animation is the same not because they produce lobbed projectiles.

Look at Bowser. He is Brawl Bowser, not melee Bowser. Bowser may have changed but he's still the same general concept of character. If Ness were in Brawl, he would be different. Melee Ness and Brawl Ness would almost be the same, because they are the same concept. Animations of Bowsers moves changed, but they're the same moves.
Animations of Lucas' moves changed, but they are the same moves.
It is a copy paste of what a Brawl Ness would be that is Lucas

I'm still hoping for a redone Ness but wont be disapointed otherwise. Lucas is basically Ness in the format of this new game and criteria.

No...the majority of Bowser's animation's remain the same but are altered in terms of speed and strength so Bowser can still be considered a clone of his SSBM self. If Ness is in SSBB, then his moves would be altered in terms of speed and strength and he'd maybe get one or two different moves. He wouldn't be made from scratch with a couple altered projectile graphics and mechanics. You don't "change" one animation to a completely different one; you make a brand new animation. And animation takes way longer than making a new "concept" or tweaking a moves strength or hitbox which is the whole point of clones.

 

[Wiseguy]

I hope everyone had a a great Christmas. I sure did.

For the record: Geometry Wars Galaxies is the best thing ever!

Eh...Don't get me wrong I love the game and would love to see him in SSBB but he just isn't on par with Mr. G&W to justify it that much. Mr. G&W was a tribute to the guy that was responsible for a lot of early Nintendo stuff and Takamaru's just another protagonist for another retro game. Takamaru'd get in as another retro character and to complete the Famicom Four and whatever but he doesn't really have much of a deeper meaning to be the final hidden character. Non-Japanese people and newer gamers might say WTF when they see him just 'cause they have no idea who he is until they Wiki his game but that's about it for WTF factor.

True, but I suspect hgis inclusion would be pretty meaningful to Japanese gamers. I can definitely see where you're coming from (though I think Tak will make it, he sure wouldn't me my choice.)

...Ya. Those aren't cloned. They just have a similar effect. The movements Lucas does is what matters for this sort of thing. Ness thrusts is fingers forward for PK Fire and Lucas does a little hadoken thing etc. Copy and pasting and touching up the little lightning and PSI magnet graphics aren't really that tasking compared to making up a brand new set of motions.

Those moves aren't just similar dude, they are indentical (save for his movements, I suppose). Either Ness and Lucas are clones or Sakurai ran out of ideas. (Or Ness is dead.)

I checked all of the moves Lucas has done and the only one that's like Ness' is the stick swinging thing (because I can't find anything where I can really look at it; PSI Magnet's pretty close but it is a noticeably different pose). Other than that, none of Lucas' other A moves match Ness' and we've seen, like, seven of them and there're a lot more animations they'd have to make than the seventeen or so moves people make up for the typical fan made moveset...so it's hard to really tell.

Actually, his grab being different breaks the clone mold from SSBM and, even if the rest of his moves are cloned, he seems to be less of a clone than Luigi was already. ...But I'm not really saying that guarantees a whole lot. He could very well replace Ness anyway. I just don't believe a few remixed specials prove anything and most of the characters have a random move that resembles another character's.

Not to be rude, but there s a pretty logical explanation for why Ness's Melee moveset was completely remade: it kinda sucked. Seriously, why not just remake the moveset to fit the new Mother rep - only not useless. He he were going to make two unique movesets for the two characters, why not make them... unique?

Todays update was great. Going back to collect all the enemy trophies will add a ton of replay value.

I hadn't thought of that. Good point.

I haven't checked here in a while but it's about time I return.

Wiseguy -

1. I'm sooooo glad you have CSLink and Mewtwo in there. Too many people are hating on them.

2. Under Pokemon Trainer, you said "With" when I think it should be "Will" Just a spelling error.

3. I don't understand why you made a 3rd Party heavy 40 PC roster in there. Isn't that just like the runner up section again? Seems kind of redundant!

1) No prob.

2) Thanks, I'll fix it.

3) Before the Megaman semi-deconfirmation, I was though that roster was real possibility. Now, I'm more skeptical...

Devastlian / Wiseguy:

1. A PC with two characters helping eachother to form one MS would be a good idea but Ideals aren't enough. The methods have to match accordingly. Midna and WLink would be a good fit if but they don't have an actual duel ability that would make them unique. You might as well just throw any character in because the two in one feature becomes that of one.
Originally when the Dojo said Pit and Zamus SWITCH between weapon options, I thought that they actually switch MS slightly. A 3P character that would actually be great for this is Banjo & Kazooie. In fact, he is the only one that fits this ability. They only reason to add a character that is actually two combined would be if they acted like a possible two in one. A Zelda Sheik in a way. Possibly a stamina charge on one form to balance it.
If say, Midna could go in alone then have WLink aid her when she summons him or something, sure. Or Banjo switching to Kazooie as in who is walking, sure. Other than that, Devastlian said it first, it wouldn't really be anything new. :\

2. Options:
A) Lucas is a Ness clone
B) Ness will be completely redone
C) Ness is gone

Lucas is Ness copied and pasted. Picture Birdo appearing on the Dojo first and in the Brawl demo, everyone said "Birdo doesn't have a JC!!!!" That's basically how much of a diference there would have been between melee Ness and a Brawl Ness (had there been one) so Lucas is indeed what Ness would have been in this game.
Different effects on attacks are exactly what clones are. The other meaning of clone would be if they gave Falco completely different animations but his Jump, Dair, Shine, Lasers and EVERYTHING about Falco was just like Fox in how it reacted.
Lucas IS Brawl Ness. It's easy to look at a picture of Lucas and see him as a Ness alt colour.
And yes that sucks :\

3. G&W is almost as big a part a smash as Mario himself. And yet he WAS the WTF Character?!?! G&W gets more attention then almost every other veteran character. There is no real reason to remove him. And it's not like he's not important, considered lame or unpopular at this point.
Taka would be an excelent fit as well. I don't think he would be a wtf character but he would be as nice an addition as Pit. Possibly a Sheik with a sword as Jimmy and CTop say? Anyone?!?! No? Maybe that would be too much
Either way, why not have both? :\

1) Maye Midna/Wolf doesn't bring a whole new kind of PC (like Pokemon Trainer or Olimar) but as traditional characters go, I think she;s as unique as it gets (four legged movement, crazy twili/wolf moves attacks.)

2) You summed up my thoughts perfectly. I wish they kept Ness, but gave him a moveset in keeping with his SSB64 glory, but that ain't happening in my estimation...

3) Again, I agree.

I'll make him edit then !

Wait...What if Paper Mario for example get's confirmed? Then he has to deny it or what? XD.

If PM gets confirmed:

Step 1: Jump for joy! I love the character.

Step 2: File him under my upcoming "Wiseguy's Mistakes" list

It's doubtful that we'll get any more characters (newcomer or veteran) until Japan spoils everything for us...

I hope you're wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Dang it Sakurai, why must you toy wuth us so?!

 

[elee88]

I just want to say that your roster looks very good. I like it a lot. As for the playable characters, I would include the 36 and add in Midna/Wolf, Claus, Michiah and (maybe) Sora.

I say the whole Zelda/Sheik transformation should be put upon Midna/Midna w/ wolf.
that's probably been criticized before, but i'm not going to read 460 pages of posts.