Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[neoREgen]

There seems to be tons of nifty info coming out of E4All demos, like Fusion-suit Samus, Dark Link (which we already knew...) and a Dixie Kong outfit for Diddy (where's your dignity, man?) and, naturally, the Ike outfit where he sports Marth's colours. How about that...

Okay, I have proof of all of those. Except a Diddy- Dixie costume.
And the Ike costume that has Marth's colors isn't "Marth" enough to convince me he's not in.
Does anyone have any alt colors for Diddy? I haven't seen one yet.

I started an "Official" (it's pending approval... I didn't quite understand some rules, but that's besides the point) Character Costumes / Colors thread to try and distinguish the rumors from facts.
Plus I'm into this kind of thing. Aesthetic, you know?
Anyway, please visit / support. [/shameless plug]

It's not like I won't be back on this page as soon as another character disrupts mine or Wiseguy's predictions.

 

[Big One]

Waluigi and Luigi wouldn't be total clones like Wolf.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? The fact is, that Fox doesn't have a Wolf alt. I actually like the idea of Fox having a Wolf alt. (saves space for more characters), but I'm not going to have some biased argument claiming it's a Wolf alt. when it clearly isn't. The alt's fur is REALLY dark, while Wolf's fur is not; Wolf is a bit bigger than Fox physically, and Fox's clothes have not change at all to Wolf's clothes in this alt.; this alt. also lacks Wolf's trademark mechanical eyepatch thing. It ISN'T Wolf, period.

Mario's green costume is not Luigi, his pants don't match. That costume was even in the Melee instruction manual for god's sake... it's not Lugi.

And neither is Fox's supposed Wolf alt. Many things don't match at all with Wolf, like his costume and fur. So what the hell is your point?

 

[PyrasTerran]

What the hell does that have to do with anything? The fact is, that Fox doesn't have a Wolf alt. I actually like the idea of Fox having a Wolf alt. (saves space for more characters), but I'm not going to have some biased argument claiming it's a Wolf alt. when it clearly isn't. The alt's fur is REALLY dark, while Wolf's fur is not; Wolf is a bit bigger than Fox physically, and Fox's clothes have not change at all to Wolf's clothes in this alt.; this alt. also lacks Wolf's trademark mechanical eyepatch thing. It ISN'T Wolf, period.

Yeesh, touchy. e.e Why does everything have to go into an argument around here... I wasn't even TRYING to start an argument. Sigh.

And neither is Fox's supposed Wolf alt. Many things don't match at all with Wolf, like his costume and fur. So what the hell is your point?

...The video I saw must have been very messed up with its color formatting, but from what I saw, the fur is grey like wolf, the costume is colored like wolf.

And the Ike costume that has Marth's colors isn't "Marth" enough to convince me he's not in.

Shouldn't the fact that Ike is a slow heavy-hitting juggernaut with only one special attack similar to Marth be enough to convince people that Marth still has a fighting chance of making it in?

 

[Big One]

...The video I saw must have been very messed up with its color formatting, but from what I saw, the fur is grey like wolf, the costume is colored like wolf.

Look closer, it isn't grey like Wolf's fur. It's much darker. This is what Wolf looks like:

His fur has a nice and rich light color to it. Now look at Fox's "Wolf" alt. again and tell me if his fur looks like Wolf's.

 

[PyrasTerran]

There is nothing "rich" about the color grey. >_>;;

*looks again*

..It looks like Wolf to me. *shrug* Doesn't make a difference to me how dark or light the grey fur is.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Mii Music uses the DS Icon...


Could that mean...Mii's deconfirmed, or use the DS Icon...

 

[PyrasTerran]

Idunno, I think that there's nothing that can fill in the representation of the DS icon. IMO, this means that Animal Crossing may not have a playable character for it after all, either.

 

[EggBomb]

Could it be possible that the DS icon represents the hardware rather than the game? After all, Pictochat has a huge reliance on the hardware the DS provides. If this is the case, then couldn't ROB, another piece of Nintendo hardware, us the icon to represent himself? The Wii music seems to use the DS icon and it's not a DS...

We know Rob's in the game, but we don't know his enemy role. He could be a standard enemy with a complete moveset like the Yoshis and pokemon we fought in Melee's Adventure Mode. On the other hand, ROB could be an enemy similiar to the goombas or greaps that have rather limited movement abilities. However, the picture on the Dojo shows that ROB can atleast Duck and Jump...which is something that all PCs can do.

The icon could also represent the other nintendo games that rely on the touch screen. Brain Age is one such games with characters like Dr. Lobe or Dr. K that could be playable.

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

how about badger....

 

[sHy)(gUy]

Wolf is deconfirmed so take him off, Make pokemon trainer one character not 3, put claus on there somewhere

 

[Mrs. Saturn]

No ness makes me a sad puppy. After all, I am sure Rope snake and those hexagon attacks werent in EarthBound. As for Wolf, you can cross him off. Hes just an alternate costume. You could also say King K. Rool but thats up in the air right now...

Whats up with the lack of Marth? You said original moveset characters will return, right?

 

[Wiseguy]

No ness makes me a sad puppy. After all, I am sure Rope snake and those hexagon attacks werent in EarthBound. As for Wolf, you can cross him off. Hes just an alternate costume. You could also say King K. Rool but thats up in the air right now...

Whats up with the lack of Marth? You said original moveset characters will return, right?

If you check out my runnersup list, I have a paragraph for marth justifying his absense. Basically, I argue that Marth's original moveset will live on in the form of Ike.

 

[StarshipGroove]

According to Gimpyfish's updates from E for all, Ike is almost as slow as Bowser and possibly even more powerful, unlike Marth and Roy. This could make the Black Knight less likely, as Ike already covers the slow, powerful swordsman type.

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

for the sake of it
Ridley 4 Brawl!!!

 

[zigzaghakr]

yes ridley, pac-man, bowser.jr, luig, falco, mr.L, ganondorf and krabby for brawl

 

[Zevox]

If you check out my runnersup list, I have a paragraph for marth justifying his absense. Basically, I argue that Marth's original moveset will live on in the form of Ike.

Might I suggest looking at the Ike sub-forum's moves threads then? Based on what has been discovered of Ike's moves (which is a lot - theres only a couple of A attacks and his throws unconfirmed), the only real similarity between their move sets is the Counter special attack. Which would mean you're quite wrong about that.

Zevox

 

[Wiseguy]

According to Gimpyfish's updates from E for all, Ike is almost as slow as Bowser and possibly even more powerful, unlike Marth and Roy. This could make the Black Knight less likely, as Ike already covers the slow, powerful swordsman type.

Might I suggest looking at the Ike sub-forum's moves threads then? Based on what has been discovered of Ike's moves (which is a lot - theres only a couple of A attacks and his throws unconfirmed), the only real similarity between their move sets is the Counter special attack. Which would mean you're quite wrong about that.

Zevox

Yes, I'm aware that Ike is slower than Marth (by, like, alot...) and several of his moves have either been hevy altered or removed altogether. But my suspicion is that it's the same moveset as Marth's - only heavily nerfed (in terms of his slowness). Looking at Mario's FLUDD and Link's boomernag, it wouldn't be the first time an existing moveset got revamped.

I've watched a few videos, and several of his airial attacks and smash attacks seem right out of Marth's playbook (though not quiiiiiiiite identical). Also, his down b is a counter...

Sorry if I sound irrational or stubborn, but I'm very resolute in my opinion that Ike is a replacement for Marth & Roy. If it turns out I'm wrong (it's happened before) feel free return to this thread and laugh in my face. Everyone else does.

 

[OysterMeister]

Yes, I'm aware that Ike is slower than Marth (by, like, alot...) and several of his moves have either been hevy altered or removed altogether. But my suspicion is that it's the same moveset as Marth's - only heavily nerfed (in terms of his slowness). Looking at Mario's FLUDD and Link's boomernag, it wouldn't be the first time an existing moveset got revamped.

I've watched a few videos, and several of his airial attacks and smash attacks seem right out of Marth's playbook (though not quiiiiiiiite identical). Also, his down b is a counter...

Sorry if I sound irrational or stubborn, but I'm very resolute in my opinion that Ike is a replacement for Marth & Roy. If it turns out I'm wrong (it's happened before) feel free return to this thread and laugh in my face. Everyone else does.

I'll be honest, I don't see any of these similar moves that you seem to see. But hey, it's grainy video and opinions are opinions, so I won't argue that point. But I will contest your claim of REPLACEMENT.
I think we need to define our terms here. For me, a replacement is something that can serve a near-identical role to that which it replaces. To quote the dictionary, a replacement must be able to assume the former role, position, or function of the thing being replaced. Now, under this definition Ike can't in any way be Marths replacement, because as countless hands-on experiences have shown Ike is flat-out incapable of occupying the same role (as nimble swordsman), position (as top tier), or function (in terms of having a similar moveset, which despite your protests he doesn't) as Marth.
Now, the definition of replacement YOU seem to operating under is a much more generic blanket-term that seems to be 'anything in a place previously held by something else'. So under your rules Ike can replace Marth because he can occupy the space of sword-wielder from Fire Emblem.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think we should use my definition of replacement for this one. Because under what seems to be your definition, Poke Trainer could be considered Pichu's replacement (assuming Mewtwo and Jiggs return) on the grounds of being the fourth Pokemon character. And calling Poketrainer a replacement for Pichu just doesn't make sense.

Now, if you want to argue that Ike will be similar enough to be able to play like Marth, and is thus Marth's replacement, be my guest.
If you want to argue that Ike is in and Marth will be cut just because Marth will be cut, that's fine too.
But don't argue that Ike is a replacement for Marth if we know that they can't play even remotely the same. If Ike can't play like Marth, then he's not a replacement, he's just another Fire Emblem character.

Edit: Oh, I just remembered. Ike's supposed Marth costume? Not Marth's colors. Marth has a light blue shirt and dark blue legs and gloves. In Ike's 'Marth' costume, the legs, arms, and pants are all white. These are Sigurd's colors. That's Sigurd, not Marth.

 

[Zevox]

Yes, I'm aware that Ike is slower than Marth (by, like, alot...) and several of his moves have either been hevy altered or removed altogether. But my suspicion is that it's the same moveset as Marth's - only heavily nerfed (in terms of his slowness). Looking at Mario's FLUDD and Link's boomernag, it wouldn't be the first time an existing moveset got revamped.

I've watched a few videos, and several of his airial attacks and smash attacks seem right out of Marth's playbook (though not quiiiiiiiite identical). Also, his down b is a counter...

Sorry if I sound irrational or stubborn, but I'm very resolute in my opinion that Ike is a replacement for Marth & Roy. If it turns out I'm wrong (it's happened before) feel free return to this thread and laugh in my face. Everyone else does.

Yeah, looking at the attacks we've seen (and especially at the captured images of them from the Ike sub-forum), I have to disagree with you. The vast majority of his attacks are very different from Marth's, especially the airials and smashes - his Fsmash is Link's from SSB 64, his Usmash is a 270 degree arc around his body rather than a stab like Marth had, and his dsmash is the same as all sword-wielders seem to have (double swipe around his feet, same as Link has had since the original and Marth, Roy, and Young Link all had in Melee), which makes it kind of an irrelevant similarity. His Nair is a single 270 degree vertical arcing swipe as opposed to Marth's 360 horizontal spinning double-strike one, his Dair is basically Link's sword plant, his Bair is a horizontal stroke that turns him to end facing the opposite direction he originally was where Marth's was just a vertical strike behind him, his Fair is a double-handed lagging cleaving blow where Marth's was just a quick one-handed stroke, and his Uair spins his sword around above his head helicopter-style, which doesn't resemble anything we've ever seen among SSB characters for that move.

Honestly, outside of counter, the greatest similarities he has to Marth are his dash attack forward tilt, and even the dash is quite different, striking at his foe's midsection rather striking low to trip them like Marth's did. Beyond that I could see a similarity argued in their Fairs (due to both being vertical strikes with similar ranges), but thats it. Ike seems to me to have a lot more similarities to Link than Marth, to be perfectly honest.

Zevox

 

[OysterMeister]

Yaarg, doublepost. Sorry, the internets are being mean to me.

 

[neoREgen]

Those are two of the best detailed arguments I've heard on the Marth / Ike debate. Can we call this pinned yet?

 

[OysterMeister]

Yakk. Triplepost now. Something seriously wrong happened with my browser...

Well, I might as well take this time to say that Ike's 'Marth' costume isn't Marth, it's Sigurd. The key is in the pants. Marth has dark blue pants; Sigurd has white pants. And what color are Ike's pants in his alt costume? White. Thank you.

Also, Golden Bowser and Yeti-Kong rock my socks.

 

[Big One]

The icon could also represent the other nintendo games that rely on the touch screen. Brain Age is one such games with characters like Dr. Lobe or Dr. K that could be playable.

I doubt Dr. K will be in. He's actually a real life person, not a Nintendo character.

And just a note, Wiseguy, Ike's alt is Sigurd's colors rather than Marth's, just in case you're basing your idea of Ike replacing Marth on that supposed costume.

 

[Wiseguy]

I'll be honest, I don't see any of these similar moves that you seem to see. But hey, it's grainy video and opinions are opinions, so I won't argue that point. But I will contest your claim of REPLACEMENT.
I think we need to define our terms here. For me, a replacement is something that can serve a near-identical role to that which it replaces. To quote the dictionary, a replacement must be able to assume the former role, position, or function of the thing being replaced. Now, under this definition Ike can't in any way be Marths replacement, because as countless hands-on experiences have shown Ike is flat-out incapable of occupying the same role (as nimble swordsman), position (as top tier), or function (in terms of having a similar moveset, which despite your protests he doesn't) as Marth.
Now, the definition of replacement YOU seem to operating under is a much more generic blanket-term that seems to be 'anything in a place previously held by something else'. So under your rules Ike can replace Marth because he can occupy the space of sword-wielder from Fire Emblem.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think we should use my definition of replacement for this one. Because under what seems to be your definition, Poke Trainer could be considered Pichu's replacement (assuming Mewtwo and Jiggs return) on the grounds of being the fourth Pokemon character. And calling Poketrainer a replacement for Pichu just doesn't make sense.

Now, if you want to argue that Ike will be similar enough to be able to play like Marth, and is thus Marth's replacement, be my guest.
If you want to argue that Ike is in and Marth will be cut just because Marth will be cut, that's fine too.
But don't argue that Ike is a replacement for Marth if we know that they can't play even remotely the same. If Ike can't play like Marth, then he's not a replacement, he's just another Fire Emblem character.

Edit: Oh, I just remembered. Ike's supposed Marth costume? Not Marth's colors. Marth has a light blue shirt and dark blue legs and gloves. In Ike's 'Marth' costume, the legs, arms, and pants are all white. These are Sigurd's colors. That's Sigurd, not Marth.

Consider if, hypothetically speaking, Ike did not exist and Marth were returning as the sole Fire Emblem representative in Brawl. And, again hypothetically speaking, supose that they were faced with the decision of either nerfing him into oblivion like Fox or changing his moveset into something only vaugly recognizable. And suppose that with characters like Metaknight and Pit filling the niche of "Nible swordsman" they opted for the second option and reimagined him and ultra heavy sword fighter with awesome power and terrible speed.

Now, if all that were to happen (as outlandish as it is) should the new Marth be considered a replacement for the new one?

As for the costume thing, I already had someone point it out to me that it's more in line with Sigurd. So, I'll refrain from using that as a supporting argument in the future.

Yeah, looking at the attacks we've seen (and especially at the captured images of them from the Ike sub-forum), I have to disagree with you. The vast majority of his attacks are very different from Marth's, especially the airials and smashes - his Fsmash is Link's from SSB 64, his Usmash is a 270 degree arc around his body rather than a stab like Marth had, and his dsmash is the same as all sword-wielders seem to have (double swipe around his feet, same as Link has had since the original and Marth, Roy, and Young Link all had in Melee), which makes it kind of an irrelevant similarity. His Nair is a single 270 degree vertical arcing swipe as opposed to Marth's 360 horizontal spinning double-strike one, his Dair is basically Link's sword plant, his Bair is a horizontal stroke that turns him to end facing the opposite direction he originally was where Marth's was just a vertical strike behind him, his Fair is a double-handed lagging cleaving blow where Marth's was just a quick one-handed stroke, and his Uair spins his sword around above his head helicopter-style, which doesn't resemble anything we've ever seen among SSB characters for that move.

Honestly, outside of counter, the greatest similarities he has to Marth are his dash attack forward tilt, and even the dash is quite different, striking at his foe's midsection rather striking low to trip them like Marth's did. Beyond that I could see a similarity argued in their Fairs (due to both being vertical strikes with similar ranges), but thats it. Ike seems to me to have a lot more similarities to Link than Marth, to be perfectly honest.

Zevox

I don't disagree that most of Ike's moves behave differently, but if you look at examples like Ike's fair, it's essentailly a nerfed version of Marth's (due to the slowness). I can't see how single handed vs. double handed makes a ton of difference.

I'm not saying that Ike will replace Marth in terms of his role as a nible sword fighter or that his moveset will be a carbon copy of Marth. My theory is that they took Marth's moveset as a starting point and remade it with Brawl specifically in mind, to fill the niche of heavy sword fighter, to suit Ike as a character, and to be more balanced.

Of course, with my luck, after typing all that out Marth will probably be confirmed in tonight's update...

 

[Pieman0920]

You know if you really do think Ike fills out the niche of heavy sword fighter, then shouldn't you remove Black Knight? He'd basically have to be a heavier sword fighter, and seeing as Ike is in the same league as Bowser, we probably are not getting a heavy alternative to Ike. =/

 

[Wiseguy]

You know fi you really do think Ike fills out the niche of heavy sword fighter, then shouldn't you remove Black Knight? He'd basically have to be a heavier sword fighter, and seeing as Ike is in the same leauge as Bowser, we probably are not getting a heavy alternative to Ike. =/

Sad, but true. You're cleverly deduced one of the changes I have planned for my next update. But that's for a night when I DON'T have to study for a mid term...

*pries himslf away to go study*

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

wiseguy you may ormay not want to ad these two pictures to your roster.

 

[Silent_X]

That Dedede is way to cute for the character.

Although it looks nicely done.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That Dedede is way to cute for the character.

Although it looks nicely done.

Dedede was suppose to look cute...the anime ****ing ruined him and made him look stupid...


I hate the anime...


For example, look at him in N64

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

That Dedede is way to cute for the character.

Although it looks nicely done.

heh he i know but remebering kirby is 8 inches dex3 can be smallish too but if you put him into porportisn to kirby in brawl then roughly bowser size

 

[Phaazoid]

**** 4kidz and their ******** ways. dedede is not texan and meta-knight is not hispanic. ****

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

**** 4kidz and their ******** ways. dedede is not texan and meta-knight is not hispanic. ****

eh?!?!?!....

 

[bivunit94]

That DeDeDe is awesome...the Luigi...eh, seen the exact same type of thing before...

 

[Dark Sonic]

I'm not saying that Ike will replace Marth in terms of his role as a nible sword fighter or that his moveset will be a carbon copy of Marth. My theory is that they took Marth's moveset as a starting point and remade it with Brawl specifically in mind, to fill the niche of heavy sword fighter, to suit Ike as a character, and to be more balanced.

And that explains why Ike only has 2-3 attacks that look like Marth's? A simple vertical slice and a counter? I still don't think that Ike's neutral B is at all like Marth's or Roy's, and it acts even more differently than theirs in the air. It looks like Sakurai was actually trying to make Ike as different from Marth as possible. Heavy instead of light, Invulnerablity to make up for a lack in speed, moves that look closer to Link's than Marth's. The counter should be considered a generic FE trademark, so I don't think that it was copied from Marth and Roy specifically. He also gave Ike a Sigurd costume and we have yet to see a Marth one (most likely he doesn't have one.), despite him being Marth's "replacement." We already can tell from videos that Ike plays nothing like Marth, so it's not exactly like Marth players would even want to switch to him anyway. Ike doesn't even appeal to me anymore because he swings his sword like a freakin' claymore. Metaknight may be fast, but he's not exactly elegant or graceful. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1286912671314226194
His sword slashes seem almost frantic.
I think Pit won't be this extreme, but can you really even call those pathetic things swords?
Marth's move set is still unique and his role is still unfilled. We still need that fighter that swings his sword effortlessly and treats his sword as simply an extension of his arm. That is what makes his attacks look so flowing. That is what makes him so appealing to me. That is what is still missing in Brawl.

 

[Kunitsuna]

I´m sorry, but that´s a dumb reason to make Marth return. We don´t need every single different way of swinging a sword around to be represented by a different character in Brawl. I agree that Marth should return because he´s the first Lord, has been Lord in two games (soon three if you count remakes) and all that jazz, but I disagree with your "I need my fluid swordsman" claim.

 

[Kirby knight]

wiseguy you may ormay not want to ad these two pictures to your roster.

Omg, that King Dedede is so adorable ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ <3

 

[Break]

Sad, but true. You're cleverly deduced one of the changes I have planned for my next update. But that's for a night when I DON'T have to study for a mid term...

*pries himslf away to go study*

Have you also reconsidered Wolf's chances considering one of Fox's alternate costumes highly resembles him? Though Mario, having a "wario costume" kind of makes this train of logic null...

 

[sHy)(gUy]

Claus..........

 

[Legolastom]

Except Mario kind of had that from previous smashes... and they kept those costumes.

Also Wario was VERY LIKELY but sadly Wolf isn't quite as much.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

And Wario is not wearing those clothes now... Mario can keep them.