Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[KAFOR]

Micaiah is quite the rage on these boards, huh?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Micaiah is quite the rage on these boards, huh?

Only since Lyn was deconfirmed...NO one cared about her until then

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

you never know wario's original outfit may be an alternate, and doesnt he have another outfit in the SE videos?

 

[Legolastom]

*cough* SadSubstitute *cough*

 

[KAFOR]

Oh, I see....

 

[Break]

Except Mario kind of had that from previous smashes... and they kept those costumes.

Also Wario was VERY LIKELY but sadly Wolf isn't quite as much.

That's a good point as well. I agree that Wolf's chances are very slim. I can't see him as anything but a Fox clone, though I bet someone on these boards would be all too happy to prove me wrong.

 

[KAFOR]

I don't see how anyone in their right mind would want to see Wolf. He is arguably Fox's twin brother. Comparing Fox to Wolf is like comparing Ness to Lucas, mind you.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

not at all actually. Fox and wolf are enemies not brothers (not even the same species btw)

 

[KAFOR]

I know that they are not brothers, but they very well look alike, just as Ness and Lucas are not brothers but look alike.

Let me ask you something my good friend, would you want Ness AND Lucas in Brawl?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I know that they are not brothers, but they very well look alike, just as Ness and Lucas are not brothers but look alike.

Let me ask you something my good friend, would you want Ness AND Lucas in Brawl?

With Lucas I would rather have Claus...Clause as of now is my number one Mother character choice

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

I know that they are not brothers, but they very well look alike, just as Ness and Lucas are not brothers but look alike.

Let me ask you something my good friend, would you want Ness AND Lucas in Brawl?

i would be perfectly ok with that, as well as both fox and wolf in

 

[KAFOR]

With Lucas I would rather have Claus...Clause as of now is my number one Mother character choice

So you would agree, no Ness?

i would be perfectly ok with that, as well as both fox and wolf in

But you must agree that they look exactly the same. Isn't that a waste of good character space? I'd much rather prefer unique looking characters instead of two characters that look vastly alike. Take Sukapon for example.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

they may look similar but we still have no idea what kind of moveset lucas has. Plus for the longest time luigi was just a palette swap of mario. Since he looked the same as mario should we get rid of him to?

 

[Break]

If Lucas and Ness have different enough movesets, I'd like to see them both in Brawl. They'd make a good duo, like Mario & Luigi, only short and psychic.

But I definitely agree on the Wolf/Fox thing. I feel they're just too similar; Wolf seems bland and unappealing as a character to me. Ness however, has been in the first two editions of the game and many people have come to love the little Yo-yo wielding fellow. Of course, I may just be acting overly nostalgic in this case.

 

[KAFOR]

Wouldn't be the baddest of ideas to get rid of that green plumber, but his appeal is way higher than that of Ness' or Wolf's. So Luigi in a way is an exception, mind you.

 

[Zevox]

Consider if, hypothetically speaking, Ike did not exist and Marth were returning as the sole Fire Emblem representative in Brawl. And, again hypothetically speaking, supose that they were faced with the decision of either nerfing him into oblivion like Fox or changing his moveset into something only vaugly recognizable. And suppose that with characters like Metaknight and Pit filling the niche of "Nible swordsman" they opted for the second option and reimagined him and ultra heavy sword fighter with awesome power and terrible speed.

Now, if all that were to happen (as outlandish as it is) should the new Marth be considered a replacement for the new one?

Yeah, I'm afraid thats far too much assumption with nothing to back it up for my tastes. I see no reason why Marth would need to be changed around completely like that - a little weakening of a few of his attacks, some timing alterations on his throws, and the removal of the spiking property on his Dair would suffice to bring him in line with the others. And last I checked, there was no quota on nimble swordsmen (or any other character type), and in any event they're all quite different from one another to begin with: Pit double-wielding short swords which are often instead used as a bow, Metaknight being quite small and single-wielding a short sword, and Marth single-wielding a long sword.

I don't disagree that most of Ike's moves behave differently, but if you look at examples like Ike's fair, it's essentailly a nerfed version of Marth's (due to the slowness). I can't see how single handed vs. double handed makes a ton of difference.

Which is why I said I could see it argued to be similar.

I'm not saying that Ike will replace Marth in terms of his role as a nible sword fighter or that his moveset will be a carbon copy of Marth. My theory is that they took Marth's moveset as a starting point and remade it with Brawl specifically in mind, to fill the niche of heavy sword fighter, to suit Ike as a character, and to be more balanced.

I just don't see that at all. They have far too few moves that either look or work similarly for that to be the case. If this were the case, I would expect to resemble Marth (or more appropriately perhaps Roy) more than he did Link, and that just isn't what I'm seeing. I'm seeing one special taken from Marth & Roy, and perhaps two normal moves which resemble Marth/Roy's, but about double that which resemble Link's normal moves. If they were actually recycling Marth & Roy's attacks into Ike, the finished product wouldn't look like they were deliberately trying to differentiate him from them IMO - thats the type of result I'd expect if both were being put in the game and they wanted them to be obviously distinct from each other.

And besides, Marth has too much reason to be a Fire Emblem rep to be removed, especially on the grounds of his in-game abilities, which can easily be tweaked if they're a problem. Marth has always been the biggest iconic character of the series thanks to being the first Lord and for a long time the only recurring one (plus being the star of the animated series to boot, which even made it to the US), and with Fire Emblem DS bringing him international and giving him a third game, he has every reason any Fire Emblem character possibly could to represent the series in SSB - more than Ike even.

Of course, with my luck, after typing all that out Marth will probably be confirmed in tonight's update...

I wish . We'll probably have to wait through Captain Falcon and Luigi at least before we get to him though. Particularly the Captain, since he was a Melee starter.

Zevox

 

[PyrasTerran]

Zevox has a big point: now that Marth is going to gain more international recognition with Fire Emblem DS, it's not too different from Roy's position back in Melee. Only this time, Marth is a lord with 3 FE games under his belt, more than any other.

It feels much more, simply, that Ike has taken Roy's place both spiritually and technically as the powerhouse of the two.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

I dont get why you have characters like Dr. Kawasima and mother brain and not a character that actually has a chance of getting in like Claus from mother 3. Correct me if im wrong but arent those just a brain and a head? is that even possibble to be a character? to have have a brain or head floating around as a character is pretty silly. Ive come to the conclusion that you either dont know who Claus is or are against him being in for some reason. Until you add claus this list is phail. Evrything else is good though(almost)

 

[PyrasTerran]

Aah.. Wiseguy you must have alot of patience to deal with so much criticism.. ^^;

 

[bivunit94]

I dont get why you have characters like Dr. Kawasima and mother brain and not a character that actually has a chance of getting in like Claus from mother 3. Correct me if im wrong but arent those just a brain and a head? is that even possibble to be a character? to have have a brain or head floating around as a character is pretty silly. Ive come to the conclusion that you either dont know who Claus is or are against him being in for some reason. Until you add claus this list is phail. Evrything else is good though(almost)

His list fails because it doesnt have your favorite character on it?

 

[Wiseguy]

wiseguy you may ormay not want to ad these two pictures to your roster.

Cool. With any luck I'll do an update tonight and put those up. Excellent job, by the way.

And that explains why Ike only has 2-3 attacks that look like Marth's? A simple vertical slice and a counter? I still don't think that Ike's neutral B is at all like Marth's or Roy's, and it acts even more differently than theirs in the air. It looks like Sakurai was actually trying to make Ike as different from Marth as possible. Heavy instead of light, Invulnerablity to make up for a lack in speed, moves that look closer to Link's than Marth's. The counter should be considered a generic FE trademark, so I don't think that it was copied from Marth and Roy specifically. He also gave Ike a Sigurd costume and we have yet to see a Marth one (most likely he doesn't have one.), despite him being Marth's "replacement." We already can tell from videos that Ike plays nothing like Marth, so it's not exactly like Marth players would even want to switch to him anyway. Ike doesn't even appeal to me anymore because he swings his sword like a freakin' claymore. Metaknight may be fast, but he's not exactly elegant or graceful. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1286912671314226194
His sword slashes seem almost frantic.
I think Pit won't be this extreme, but can you really even call those pathetic things swords?
Marth's move set is still unique and his role is still unfilled. We still need that fighter that swings his sword effortlessly and treats his sword as simply an extension of his arm. That is what makes his attacks look so flowing. That is what makes him so appealing to me. That is what is still missing in Brawl.

I agree that they were trying to make Ike as different from Marth as possible. For good reason: Marth was a broken character. In Melee, he has a deadly combination of high attack speed, massive hit box and devatating attack power. In Brawl, they appear to have taken a wiser approach by balancing character strengths and weaknesses. Example: MetaKnight has incredible attack speed for killer combos, but pathetic knock back. Meanwhile, Ike has insane endurance and attack power, but his terrible speed balances that out.

So the lack of a Marth costume supports his return? Call me crazy, but I'd say the only thing that separtes the Sigurd costume from Marth is the colouring of his shirt (it's white, while Marth's is a light blue). That's hardly conclusive, regardless on where you stand on Marth's return.

I still don't see Marth's style as sword swinging as a big deal. The way I see it, his three off spring inherited most of his important traits (Ike got his power, Meta got his speedy combos and Pit got his "elegance") but if his fighting style is important to you, I could understand why you'd like to see him return.

Yeah, I'm afraid thats far too much assumption with nothing to back it up for my tastes. I see no reason why Marth would need to be changed around completely like that - a little weakening of a few of his attacks, some timing alterations on his throws, and the removal of the spiking property on his Dair would suffice to bring him in line with the others. And last I checked, there was no quota on nimble swordsmen (or any other character type), and in any event they're all quite different from one another to begin with: Pit double-wielding short swords which are often instead used as a bow, Metaknight being quite small and single-wielding a short sword, and Marth single-wielding a long sword.

That was never supposed to be a realistic prediction, it was a hypothetical senario to explain why a character could serve as a replacement while being very different.

Which is why I said I could see it argued to be similar.

Fair enough.

I just don't see that at all. They have far too few moves that either look or work similarly for that to be the case. If this were the case, I would expect to resemble Marth (or more appropriately perhaps Roy) more than he did Link, and that just isn't what I'm seeing. I'm seeing one special taken from Marth & Roy, and perhaps two normal moves which resemble Marth/Roy's, but about double that which resemble Link's normal moves. If they were actually recycling Marth & Roy's attacks into Ike, the finished product wouldn't look like they were deliberately trying to differentiate him from them IMO - thats the type of result I'd expect if both were being put in the game and they wanted them to be obviously distinct from each other.

I see what you're saying. But with so many swordfighters in Brawl, they likely wanted to differentiate Ike as much as possible, regardless of whether Marth returns. And obviously, they want Brawl to differentiate from Melee as well. So, there are lots of reasons for why they wouldwant Ike to be drastically different from his predessesours.

And besides, Marth has too much reason to be a Fire Emblem rep to be removed, especially on the grounds of his in-game abilities, which can easily be tweaked if they're a problem. Marth has always been the biggest iconic character of the series thanks to being the first Lord and for a long time the only recurring one (plus being the star of the animated series to boot, which even made it to the US), and with Fire Emblem DS bringing him international and giving him a third game, he has every reason any Fire Emblem character possibly could to represent the series in SSB - more than Ike even.

I don't buy the idea that he has always been the face of the franchise, because the majority of FE fans are outside Japan and have never played his games. However, with the arrival of Fire Emblem DS I agree that he is now relevant to the franchise.

For that reason, I have no problems with Marth making the cut. I just don't think it will happen.

I wish . We'll probably have to wait through Captain Falcon and Luigi at least before we get to him though. Particularly the Captain, since he was a Melee starter.

Zevox

My guess for the next few characters:

Ridley, Falcon, Ganondorf, Captain Olimar, Luigi. Quote me on that.

Zevox has a big point: now that Marth is going to gain more international recognition with Fire Emblem DS, it's not too different from Roy's position back in Melee. Only this time, Marth is a lord with 3 FE games under his belt, more than any other.

It feels much more, simply, that Ike has taken Roy's place both spiritually and technically as the powerhouse of the two.

That a totaally valid point. It all comes down to whether Sakurai decides to opt with Marth (the safe choice) or go for someone who brings more uniqueness to the roster, Miciaiah.

Which do you think we can expect from the dude who dreamed up that Pictochat stage?

I dont get why you have characters like Dr. Kawasima and mother brain and not a character that actually has a chance of getting in like Claus from mother 3. Correct me if im wrong but arent those just a brain and a head? is that even possibble to be a character? to have have a brain or head floating around as a character is pretty silly. Ive come to the conclusion that you either dont know who Claus is or are against him being in for some reason. Until you add claus this list is phail. Evrything else is good though(almost)

Woah, waoh, woah.

1) Mother Brain is suggested as BOSS character, not a playable character. Get your facts straight.

2) I write about characters I know (for the most part) and I know zilch about Claus.

3) If you read my post carefully, you'd know that I've requested that anyone with a character idea can simply PM me a picture with a decription, and I'll post it in my runnerup while giving you full credit. If you feel so strongly about Claus, you should do that.







Okay, I'm off to class. Expect an update tonight. It'll be my most shocking and drastic in a while, I guarantee.

 

[PyrasTerran]

That a totaally valid point. It all comes down to whether Sakurai decides to opt with Marth (the safe choice) or go for someone who brings more uniqueness to the roster, Miciaiah.

Which do you think we can expect from the dude who dreamed up that Pictochat stage?

The same dude who gave us Sonic?

I'd say he'd more likely do both than take out Marth. He likes to please fans just as much as he likes to add new surprises.

 

[Zevox]

I see what you're saying. But with so many swordfighters in Brawl, they likely wanted to differentiate Ike as much as possible, regardless of whether Marth returns. And obviously, they want Brawl to differentiate from Melee as well. So, there are lots of reasons for why they wouldwant Ike to be drastically different from his predessesours.

Perhaps. But the way I see it, if Marth were truly not returning (and presumably his clone Roy is gone as well), would they not want to give at the very least a decent nod to his fans by maintaining at least a fair portion of his fighting style in his successor? In which case, should we not expect to see more similarities between the two than we do?

I don't buy the idea that he has always been the face of the franchise, because the majority of FE fans are outside Japan and have never played his games.

Ah, but for over 2/3 of the series' life, Fire Emblem was a Japan-only franchise, and we certainly know that its popularity is much greater in Japan than outside of it. Perhaps there are more fans from other nations now, but that is only due to the rest of the world put together outnumbering Japan's fan population, not because they are the chief source of Fire Emblem support or fans. In Japan, we have plenty of evidence of him being the franchise's face, especially in his being selected as the star of the anime and his high position on the Melee newcomer poll.

However, with the arrival of Fire Emblem DS I agree that he is now relevant to the franchise.

For that reason, I have no problems with Marth making the cut. I just don't think it will happen.

Thats two of those three points we can agree on, then. I simply disagree with the belief that he won't make the cut, since I feel he clearly stands out from all other FE characters as a viable rep for the series. If you disagree with that, cool, we can just agree to disagree and see which one of us Sakurai & his company agree with in time.

My guess for the next few characters:

Ridley, Falcon, Ganondorf, Captain Olimar, Luigi. Quote me on that.

I just might . Personally, I expect Captain Falcon to be the next revealed, due to our greater than month-long veteran drought and his status as a starter in Melee, but I'd be just as happy to see any of them confirmed.

That a totaally valid point. It all comes down to whether Sakurai decides to opt with Marth (the safe choice) or go for someone who brings more uniqueness to the roster, Miciaiah.

Which do you think we can expect from the dude who dreamed up that Pictochat stage?

As Pyras said, I'm thinking both is distinctly possible. Fire Emblem is a fairly large and important franchise to Nintendo: twice as large as the Star Fox series (who many believe will get three characters), approaching the size of the Zelda series (not counting remakes, FE is at 10 games and Zelda at 13), and it was the series to start the tactical RPG genre among video games - sounds like a three-character series to me. Seeing Ike, Marth, and Micaiah all seems a distinct possibility IMO.

Zevox

 

[Elysium]

As Pyras said, I'm thinking both is distinctly possible. Fire Emblem is a fairly large and important franchise to Nintendo: twice as large as the Star Fox series (who many believe will get three characters), approaching the size of the Zelda series (not counting remakes, FE is at 10 games and Zelda at 13), and it was the series to start the tactical RPG genre among video games - sounds like a three-character series to me. Seeing Ike, Marth, and Micaiah all seems a distinct possibility IMO.

Zevox

That seems reasonable, but could that also mean that we might only get 2 SF reps then, and 3 for FE? or vice versa?? Never thought about that....

 

[Copperpot]

Well, both are important franchises. The real difference between the two is that Star Fox consists mainly of a main, reoccuring character (Fox) with a slew of supporting characters (Team Star Fox, Star Wolf, etc.).

The Fire Emblem franchise is basically eight (or so) different stories compiled into one series. There are so many 'main' characters that it offers a bit more creative freedom.

Thus the conundrum: Does he give spots on the roster to supporting characters that have appeared in many games, or does he offer the positions to main characters that have only appeared in one or two games of their respected franchise?

This is assuming, of course, that Fire Emblem and Star Fox are competing for placement. I suppose, to an extent, it's true. I don't think it would boil down to this though.

In the end, it boils down to the character as an individual. I'd rather see Peppy pimp slap Donkey Kong over and over than have Fire Emblem Lords #4, #5, and #6, just like I'd rather have Ridley (who was never even playable) than Pokemon 'A', 'B', or 'C'.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

His list fails because it doesnt have your favorite character on it?

Yes, But nowhere did I say that he was my favorite character. I just think his chances of getting in outproritize half of the character on his runnersup list.

I just assumed that all the people you listed in the runners up part were as playable characters and not bosses or anything else...

I dont feel like sending u a pm or whatever, maybe someonne else can do it....

Ok ill shut up now about claus, and good work on this its alot of good info and stuff

but seriously u should look claus up hes a very interesting character

 

[StarshipGroove]

Don't worry Wisey, you're not so stubborn, you're opinionated

However, even if you don't think Marth will return, Ike is already verrry slow and strong, and making a even slower and stronger character (Black Knight) would be rather ridiculous.
My argument was meant to heighten Micaiah(sp?)'s chances.

 

[Shadowplusle]

Don't worry Wisey, you're not so stubborn, you're opinionated

However, even if you don't think Marth will return, Ike is already verrry slow and strong, and making a even slower and stronger character (Black Knight) would be rather ridiculous.
My argument was meant to heighten Micaiah(sp?)'s chances.

i agree, with one slow sword fighter character, why make a slower one. i think either micaiah should get in or Soren.

Who wouldnt want some emo, gothic wind user as a fighter? Everyone wants Soren.

 

[zigzaghakr]

yay luig has been confirmed yay

 

[Shadowplusle]

luigi confirmed? Since when?

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

emm this post is messed up...

 

[the grim lizard]

I just realized this...why is Ganondorf black?

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

becuase his relative live in africe...gerudo deset...
the two have similarities
(if this is tooken the wrong way sorry i know all black people dont come from africa)

 

[Shadowplusle]

i thought ganondorf was more green

 

[the grim lizard]

He should be like arabian or middle-eastern looking. That's how he was in OoT and Melee...:-\

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

ganondorf=SCOTTISH

 

[Elysium]

Sun tan to skin cancer? Cancer treatments don't work on Ganon because of how much ownage is circulation through his veins.

 

[Shadowplusle]

you've got a point

 

[zigzaghakr]

WAt ganon's gonna die He's my only evil main noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!

 

[Elysium]

I forgot to mention, Ganon doesn't need treatment. He ***** Cancer like he ***** a n00b playing as Mewtwo. lol