PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Vixen]

Sounds great, hope you're not trying to john, lol.

Not really a john. If anything I'm impressed withh how quick I've rebounded.

Mix it up, you can practice all of that with the 20XX hack pack, which you should have if you haven't got it already.

To be honest, this is not something the 20xx hack pack works terribly well with. 20xx is super useful for things such as measuring hitstun, or basic space animal shine pressure. The deeper dynamics on which defensive option is the best in a given situation vs a given player only playing with a live person can help with this, from my experience/in my opinion.

Sometimes even the noob roll can be a good option, is all about doing things that your opponent will not expect. This is kind of difficult especially if the first time you've played someone, you kind of have to get to know his habits and what he expects you to do in a certain situation (for example, if he likes to cover tech in place or tech away).

this was something Forward taught me when we used to train together. Sometimes something as silly as rolling 5 times in a row across the stage is the best option. :D

Whut??? I'm dissappointed

Yeah.... The texture hacks are of such a generally low and unpolished quality that they're kinda gross to look at. I'll stick to the default pallet.

I do like playing with custom shield colors. Anywhere I go that there's a 20xx pack I'm going to rock a hot pink shield.

 

[Oskurito]

this was something Forward taught me when we used to train together. Sometimes something as silly as rolling 5 times in a row across the stage is the best option. :D

Ohh.. Now it all makes sense, you were trained by one of the greatest old school falcos, the great Forward. You guys would make a nice couple ;D

 

[Vixen]

Ohh.. Now it all makes sense, you were trained by one of the greatest old school falcos, the great Forward. You guys would make a nice couple ;D

To be fair I was already placing top 7/top5 in local Tucson events before I even met Forward. I did idolize him when I first started in late 05, though.

Oh trust me like the only thing I have in common with Sean is that we play smash. xD Plus the dude's married. :B

I do have a wonderful smasher boyfriend though. <3

 

[Oskurito]

To be fair I was already placing top 7/top5 in local Tucson events before I even met Forward. I did idolize him when I first started in late 05, though.

Oh trust me like the only thing I have in common with Sean is that we play smash. xD Plus the dude's married. :B

LOL

I do have a wonderful smasher boyfriend though. <3

does he play falco tho, that's the question.

 

[Vixen]

LOL


does he play falco tho, that's the question.

He plays Ganon like a man. I'm a dumb ***** who plays a dumb burd.

 

[Oskurito]

He plays Ganon like a man. I'm a dumb ***** who plays a dumb burd.

k *****. LOL

 

[miketyson]

um so one thing I, as a semi scrub, struggle with is being overwhelmed by better/ aggressive players, especially falco players (and ****ing everyone plays falco). I was wonder what i should practice in-order to deal with this, i know i need to practice WD in and out of shield really clean, but i have no one to practice shooting lasers at me and i dont have 20xx

@ Dr Peepee
I am aware that this mindless aggression isn’t the most optimal play style at top level, but verse lower level players its pretty good rofl. I guess what im trying to ask is how I can use their play style and show its flaws. Like I know what they are doing but I just don’t really know how to overcome it. Its like they are the deathstar and I KNOW they have a flaw that will implode them but I don’t know how to find that big red button . . . for now im just going to practice more, but I was wondering if you had any input.

 

[miketyson]

I accidental double posted but i would like say that i think practicing WD in and out of shield is more importiant than double shining

 

[Vixen]

um so one thing I, as a semi scrub, struggle with is being overwhelmed by better/ aggressive players, especially falco players (and ****ing everyone plays falco). I was wonder what i should practice in-order to deal with this, i know i need to practice WD in and out of shield really clean, but i have no one to practice shooting lasers at me and i dont have 20xx

@DrPeepee
I am aware that this mindless aggression isn’t the most optimal play style at top level, but verse lower level players its pretty good rofl. I guess what im trying to ask is how I can use their play style and show its flaws. Like I know what they are doing but I just don’t really know how to overcome it. Its like they are the deathstar and I KNOW they have a flaw that will implode them but I don’t know how to find that big red button . . . for now im just going to practice more, but I was wondering if you had any input.

Do you have the ability to get 20xx? If not, these are my suggestions:

Learn to counter attack. Learn when you can crouch cancel. Learn the spacing in which if falco tries to do something after a sh laser that you can stuff it. For example a lot of falcos will approach with a laser then try to run in with something. sometimes it's actually unsafe and you can kick 'em for it. Axe taught me this. He and I like to throw out neutral air or f-tilts if a falco tries to come in on us between laser shots. If the lasers are immaculate, then other options work.

Vs super precise lasers, learn to SDI. You're not going to be perfect at power shielding, no-one is. Good falcos will shoot you in situations where either power shield isn't an option, or they'll shoot super low lasers. I'm so good with my lasers that power shielding hardly does anything to my gameplan. What I recommend doing is crouch cancelling lasers, or sdi them in/away to mess with their spacing and timing. also with aggressive laser approaches, you can actually do things such as full jump away, or roll behind them to mess with their spacing and pressure. Make sure you keep a close eye on how they approach and where they like to go. I'm the type of falco that likes to catch rolls in, but usually doesn't cover full jump/jump away.

Wavedash back out of shield is nice vs certain types of pressure. if they're going for 20xx shine pressure it won't work but if you're against a more PP/Forward-esque player where we do a lot of spaced aerials and tilts, you can WD away for positioning.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I accidental double posted but i would like say that i think practicing WD in and out of shield is more importiant than double shining

Wait what was the thing you quoted??

 

[sadistic]

Can you buffer an aerial out of shield? For example:
-You're lightshielding on a platform.
-You're opponent hits you with a move that keeps you in shieldstun, until eventually you slide off the platform.
-You input C-stick up after this shieldstun begins (so nothing should happen until you slide off the platform).
-Once you've slid off the platform, will you up-air right away or will nothing happen?

 

[Vixen]

You can't buffer an aerial out of shield, only the jump out of shield. You still need to recognize when you're out of stun to get that aerial out quickly.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

What's a good way to practice mixing up tech rolls and I've tried the Mango way and it still doesn't work and what's a good way to get motivation? (In General and the one PP posted didn't help me really)

 

[Stalled]

Find a way to motivate yourself. Set goals that are important to you. Want to beat someone? Want to make top 8 in a local? wanna win your weekly? My personal motivation is to be good enough to have hype sets, just find something that you want to accomplish. As for mixing up tech rolls, learn your habits then break them, and continually do that. Really just mix it up, its not any more complicated than that, also mix in missed techs when you feel like you can get away with it.

 

[Vixen]

Won my weekly. :DDDDDD

 

[Stalled]

Time for a new goal

 

[Vixen]

Time for a new goal

Make my way up the AZPR. Being #9 feels baaaad.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Find a way to motivate yourself. Set goals that are important to you. Want to beat someone? Want to make top 8 in a local? wanna win your weekly? My personal motivation is to be good enough to have hype sets, just find something that you want to accomplish. As for mixing up tech rolls, learn your habits then break them, and continually do that. Really just mix it up, its not any more complicated than that, also mix in missed techs when you feel like you can get away with it.

I meant like in game wise, in other words in the middle of the set. I have a few goals like being a Top Player in Ohio or best Falco Main in Ohio (Most likely under Mango). Not saying this isn't useful but I kind of mis wrote it.

 

[Berble]

In neutral, a lot of times opponents will go to the side or top platform to avoid lasers
when they're up there what should I do? i mostly encounter this situation against Fox and if I try to do full hop lasers to hit him he just drops down and I'm immediately above him on a platform at a disadvantage. Any advice on this? Let me know if this situation is too vague and I'll try to make it more specific

 

[KevJames]

In neutral, a lot of times opponents will go to the side or top platform to avoid lasers
when they're up there what should I do? i mostly encounter this situation against Fox and if I try to do full hop lasers to hit him he just drops down and I'm immediately above him on a platform at a disadvantage. Any advice on this? Let me know if this situation is too vague and I'll try to make it more specific

When against Fox, it's best to stay patient since most Fox players won't be platform camping for that long. But if intense platform cancelling is the situation and you feel the need to start approaching, shining right below the platform -> waveland onto platform can put some pressure on Fox. Otherwise, just wait for Fox to come down from the platforms and proceed to continue lasering. If the Fox decides to come at you from above, you can shine OOS or u-tilt.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

How should you play neutral vs. Marth and that's the main thing you need to do?

 

[orvs]

How should you play neutral vs. Marth and that's the main thing you need to do?

i feel like there are many different ways to deal with marth IMO but here are some "rules" of the matchup:

-don't be above marth on a platform - you will get uptilted/upaired to death, unless you are good at shield dropping. as you leave the platform its easy to get intercepted.
-don't constantly try to approach marth from above with aerials - sometimes you can get away with double jump baits and fall down with an aerial, but that is usually a really dangerous commitment against a marth. If they up-air you while you are in the air, you are going to eat a hard punish. the marth could also wavedash back and punish the landing easily.
-don't get pinned near the ledge - at this position marth can cover several options with a swift movement. and it's easy to get gimped.
-don't get offstage below the ledge - if marth can edgeguard, falco is pretty much dead meat at this point. however don't give up, there is a chance they may screw up.

these are easier said than done and apply to most matchups. you also may be forcefully put into these positions but that's what i got so far. and of course i'm saying "don't" as a general "safe" way of doing things and avoiding spots where you are easily exploited. for example, if they respect your platform game for whatever reason, now you can opt to be on platform without as much fear.

in the neutral i personally keep to a simply a simple strategy:

laser at a distance that respects marth's range and then look for patterns and how he reacts to laser. since falco can put him into shield (even for really brief moments), falco can counteract his movements and get huge combo starters/solid hits. for example if he always wavedashes forward out of shield after x amount of lasers, all i have to go is shoot x amount of lasers then intercept the wavedash with a nair/shine and that's it. if he retreats to platform i can position myself under him and poke. if he wavedashes back, i can continue to laser while inching forward... and so forth. depending on the spacing, the options that both characters opt for can change. and of course, i am always expecting mixups/changes in their strategies.

imo it's also good to learn how to deal with marth without the laser too, because there will be times where marth is in your face and you can't laser safely. there may be a time where marth players get really consistent with powershields. maybe sometimes it's just good to mix up the way you are handling things just to keep the other player guessing.
sometimes i go for other strategies like: run up -->shield-->predict their response-->beat it, or run up-->predict their response-->beat it. i also do dash dance-->predict their response-->beat it. with all those strategies, i'm baiting out a response of some some sort and learning about my opponent. this is basically a rock-paper-scissors scenario that gets set up and i try to read patterns from there as well. this is pretty risky though because i'm committing to the hard read and falco might die if he makes the wrong call.

basically you can set up any strategy - as long as you have answers for everything that marth can do in a situation and you have the ability to execute, it comes down to how well you can call/react to his movements and how hard you can punish him. different things may work for you.

oh yea, and when i apply any strategy and look at their response, i try to take into account their stage position and their emotional state.

 

[orvs]

meant to edit above post

 

[Varist]

I'd just like to point out to the person who asked the question that this information is misleading. For one, not only jumps can be 'buffered' out of shield but rolling and spot dodging as well, because both can be performed with the c-stick. Two, you have to use the c-stick to do it. And three, it's not actually buffering. It just seems like buffering because holding the stick repeatedly inputs the command, and you must be holding it when the stun ends to get the first possible frame on your action. Other than something really obscure we haven't found yet melee has no real buffering, just the ability to automatically input a command for each frame that you have the stick held.

 

[Varist]

Marth Matchup
Sorry to double post but I'm an experienced Falco v marth player at the high level and have done at least a years worth of dedicated Marth theorycrafting since he became the character I started running into trouble with in tournaments. The matchup forces falco to use tools and reserve himself in a way that doesn't really come out in other matchups.

I'd like to point out that orvs information above has principles to live by. Marth is falco's hardest counter by far and one of his worst matchups because he loses all horizontal advantage against Marth at ranges where lasering is dangerous and can't abuse his vertical mobility or priority as freely as he can against other characters. Moreover he is always at a first game disadvantage against the stages Marth gets to strike to, if you can convince the Marth to gentleman to Battlefield you should until they stop falling for it, thank Hax because he has everyone convinced that's the most neutral stage for every matchup and people forget that there are catch-22s you can get forced into if someone strikes it.

The run up shield advice is not advice I would give because it restricts movement options you badly need and takes away crouch cancel, and it's a visual cue to the Marth that he should go for a grab right there. As always you can punish with spotdodge shine but that is only if the Marth spaces badly, otherwise you have to jab and dash away, which means you just lost stage.


This seems grim because on paper marth does win the matchup, but you just have to be better than your opponent inside the game. On the brightside, there are two areas within the matchup you can abuse, being in the center with laser pressure or being right inside marth having an RPS battle. You have access to shine and his OOS options are slower than the average top tier, and this is the only point in the matchup where you can do to him what you're used to doing to other characters and feel comfortable. When you get inside make the most of it, and when you're outside you need to be fast enough to react to every move Marth makes and punish every jump he does (jumping is slightly more disadvantageous than being grounded in this matchup, for him). Discipline yourself and reign back, do not just laser nair. Space outside him with lasers and a back-up plan for WD OOS (marth likes to invade your space quickly and grab if your lasers are predictable) and test different timings, bait and punish, force things from him. You are not going to beat a competent Marth when you are the one forcing moves into him from neutral.


If you want to practice tech skill for this matchup, focus on dashing as soon as possible out of moves. Dash away after laser, dash away after jab (great in this matchup), turning your dashes into dash wavedashes, reactionary spot dodges upon landing, delayed lasers out of full hop to keep your landings somewhat safe (don't rely on it when you fight Marths at tai's level and +, you'll find out why lol) because it will keep out a jc grab attempt on the spot you land. Practice ledgedashes as well because you will need the invincibility, LHDL is a habit you have to break against marth. this is enough to get you competing with top tier marths if your tech and punishes are up to 20xx standards, just live by the principles of the matchup because Marth will murder you off an opening.


I kind of poured out a lot of the secret tricks of the trade here because I hate marth and the less of him that exists in the tournament ecosystem the easier my life is haha

 

[Doser]

delayed lasers out of full hop to keep your landings somewhat safe (don't rely on it when you fight Marths at tai's level and +, you'll find out why lol)

What do the top marths do to counter this?

 

[orvs]

Marth Matchup
Sorry to double post but I'm an experienced Falco v marth player at the high level and have done at least a years worth of dedicated Marth theorycrafting since he became the character I started running into trouble with in tournaments. The matchup forces falco to use tools and reserve himself in a way that doesn't really come out in other matchups.

I'd like to point out that orvs information above has principles to live by. Marth is falco's hardest counter by far and one of his worst matchups because he loses all horizontal advantage against Marth at ranges where lasering is dangerous and can't abuse his vertical mobility or priority as freely as he can against other characters. Moreover he is always at a first game disadvantage against the stages Marth gets to strike to, if you can convince the Marth to gentleman to Battlefield you should until they stop falling for it, thank Hax because he has everyone convinced that's the most neutral stage for every matchup and people forget that there are catch-22s you can get forced into if someone strikes it.

The run up shield advice is not advice I would give because it restricts movement options you badly need and takes away crouch cancel, and it's a visual cue to the Marth that he should go for a grab right there. As always you can punish with spotdodge shine but that is only if the Marth spaces badly, otherwise you have to jab and dash away, which means you just lost stage.


This seems grim because on paper marth does win the matchup, but you just have to be better than your opponent inside the game. On the brightside, there are two areas within the matchup you can abuse, being in the center with laser pressure or being right inside marth having an RPS battle. You have access to shine and his OOS options are slower than the average top tier, and this is the only point in the matchup where you can do to him what you're used to doing to other characters and feel comfortable. When you get inside make the most of it, and when you're outside you need to be fast enough to react to every move Marth makes and punish every jump he does (jumping is slightly more disadvantageous than being grounded in this matchup, for him). Discipline yourself and reign back, do not just laser nair. Space outside him with lasers and a back-up plan for WD OOS (marth likes to invade your space quickly and grab if your lasers are predictable) and test different timings, bait and punish, force things from him. You are not going to beat a competent Marth when you are the one forcing moves into him from neutral.


If you want to practice tech skill for this matchup, focus on dashing as soon as possible out of moves. Dash away after laser, dash away after jab (great in this matchup), turning your dashes into dash wavedashes, reactionary spot dodges upon landing, delayed lasers out of full hop to keep your landings somewhat safe (don't rely on it when you fight Marths at tai's level and +, you'll find out why lol) because it will keep out a jc grab attempt on the spot you land. Practice ledgedashes as well because you will need the invincibility, LHDL is a habit you have to break against marth. this is enough to get you competing with top tier marths if your tech and punishes are up to 20xx standards, just live by the principles of the matchup because Marth will murder you off an opening.


I kind of poured out a lot of the secret tricks of the trade here because I hate marth and the less of him that exists in the tournament ecosystem the easier my life is haha

thank you for sharing the lore of this matchup. this is one of the matchups that i really don't like to do in a best of 3 set because of how hard marth can convert off of one correct read/powershield. sometimes i face marth players that kill me off of one opening, and i barely learn anything about their neutral game and it gets frustrating sometimes.
*Takes notes*

The run up shield thing is something i try to do sparingly and when its hard to pick up patterns from my other strategies. i find it interesting because you say that you wouldn't give that advice out, but all of the reasons you propose are exactly why I personally do it XD. yea it takes away movement options and crouch cancel - run up shield is basically telling marth "okay, i'm challenging you and i can't back down. if you don't take this opportunity to get me, i have all the space" and it really tempts him to commit to something. if i feed them the visual cue that tempts him to grab me, and they are a really grab-happy marth, i'll do it for a split second and then beat their grab with a dair/nair/jump-->shine. eventually the marth will learn to respect the aerial by attempting to bait it out with movement like running up then dashing/wavedashing back - which i can later respond with by shooting a laser or wavedashing back if i'm scared of powershield lol. he might also attempt to counter my aerial by doing a short hop nair/fair to attempt to clip me. if that happens, or i think that will happen, i put up the shield for a split second, then wavedash forward to go under marth's hitboxes and shine him before his hitbox connects. if marth gets in tuned to the timing of my runup-->shield strat ( i can tell if this happens by if he's spacing aerials right outside of my range, if he is spacing aerials on my shield right as i put my shield up, or if marth just does run up-->grab without any hesitation whatsoever before my shield even comes up), then i can abandon it altogether and then find counters for his counterstrategy.

it's a really ballsy strategy with more risk than pretty much any other strategy against marth when i think about it, but idk it has clutched out stocks for me whenever i figured something out .

and i do tend to do it when most other strategies fail, or if i'm in a best of 5 set though. i have been told by other players that this is too dangerous of a strategy, so maybe i'll experiment without using this tactic.

 

[keninblack]

Im rather stuck on comboing non fast fallers. Its definitely different unless i'm missing something.

Am I suppose to be sour spotting my dairs after shine? Nairs? I'm so lost, any help is good. Thanks!

 

[Vixen]

I'd just like to point out to the person who asked the question that this information is misleading. For one, not only jumps can be 'buffered' out of shield, but rolling and spot dodging as well, because both can be performed with the c-stick. Two, you have to use the c-stick to do it. And three, it's not actually buffering. It just seems like buffering because holding the stick repeatedly inputs the command, and you must be holding it when the stun ends to get the first possible frame on your action. Other than something really obscure we haven't found yet melee has no real buffering, just the ability to automatically input a command for each frame that you have the stick held.

I already know all of this...

Also Falco players should do what I do and try to take Marth to YS/FOD. I have extremely good results vs marth players on those stages, with a slight preference for YS since you can occasionally get an off the top kill if they derp their DI.

Also Falco beats Marth at least 55/45. You win on more stages than Marth does and you control the overall pace of the set. I've played just about every good marth throughout smash history.

 

[Alexander Duprey]

I feel the odd one out, I like fighting marth on FD. Of course other stage will help in the match up, i just personally like fighting marth on fd

 

[Varist]

What do the top marths do to counter this?

it depends on how far from you they are when your laser reaches them and what height you were able to get the laser at. On low lasers they short hop over as they dash, ff and grab you. On high lasers marth's natural hunched over position when dashing will dodge the laser for them if they're playing very aware, and if it's just going to hit them and they're on top of you they'll shield the laser and shieldgrab out of it. if they aren't on top of you they could risk wd oos but they usually don't do that, they just concede because the laser reversal when landing gives you the benefit of spotdodge->jab

 

[trilok]

I tend to see some pessimism from falco players about losing certain matchups. At worst, falco's worst matchups are considered even at higher levels. I dont think people (including myself) tend to fully understand the dynamic of how falco specifically plays matchups differently. Each matchup can be so different in terms of how to play and what role you take as falco and what combos/pressure you do. Even across different stages, how you play as falco can change drastically and sometimes people dont understand it and can view change as bad. I think falco is a very hard character to play as compared to other characters. his difficulty doesn't come from pressing buttons like fox, but the immense character/matchup knowledge you must know to play correctly and precisely, or you can get screwed pretty hard and pretty fast. Some people might have holes in their understanding of matchups and find certain characters hard, but it just means you have to learn and you most likely will come on top as a falco player. There are usually no brief ways to understand matchups either. Too many factors exists and really cant be summarized easily. In certain matchups, I do believe that one side requires less understanding of the other char and their own tools to do better in the matchup. Ex marth vs sheik and fox vs falco. I definitely do think without appropriate knowledge, falco mains will tend to struggle against Samus/Peach/Puff/Marth in particular, especially at lower-mid levels.

Personally, I tend to struggle against marth moreso than any other character in the game especially when Im not in the zone, but I do not think the matchup is bad. Its how I play in general that doesnt work as well against marth. The matchup is atleast 55/45 in falcos favor in general. Its probably like 60-40 in marths favor on Final destination, but its also very very hard for marth on Dreamland. In my experience, I have had more success on Yoshis/FoD but battlefield is okay for falco too. Pokemon stadium is probably marths second best stage in this matchup, but its like a worse FD for him and he gets wrecked on the stage transforms.

 

[Vixen]

I feel the odd one out, I like fighting marth on FD. Of course other stage will help in the match up, i just personally like fighting marth on fd

I've beaten a lot of good Marths on FD because I'm a campy asshole. I just prefer playing on YS/FOD, because it feels more honest.

 

[Varist]

what you may not realize trilok is that marth players can have different styles the same way falcos have different styles. A marth who plays the falco matchup the right way, with the right style, is going to win that matchup.

The matchup can look 60-40 or 55-whatever if you have a jumpy swingy marth, but when both characters have tailored for themselves the optimal way to play the matchup, which means taking 4 stocks to win the game, Marth's objectives are very clear and very straightforward, while Falcos objectives are more abstract, more reliant on the Marth making a mistake, and prone to fatal risk every time he makes a judgement call on the approach.

In the matchup I believe Marth gets as much leeway as he wants, and only has to forfeit it while the Falco is on the offensive and putting himself into continual risky situations. The falco has the leeway only while he is not trying to actively kill Marth, once he enters into Marth's space he has to follow the rules of the engagement. If he messes up, he is dead. If the Marth messes up, he's not dead, and he has a safety net that Falco has to react to, and even when Falco reacts properly, all it does is get him back into Marth's space to keep risking himself

Marth Falco is one of those rock paper scissors heavy matchups, the problem being when Marth loses an exchange he takes percent, and when Falco loses an exchange he should lose a stock.

 

[Vixen]

I think that even with the RPS aspect Falco wins the match up overall.

 

[Oskurito]

To me it seems that Varist has this opinion because marth's punish game is technically easier and more consistent than falco's, and thus, for him in almost every situation marth can cap harder than falco and will win the match up a bit more frequently if played perfectly (or close enough).

Imo, at lower levels marth beats falco on equal skill, but the higher you go you can see that falco's chances aren't that bad. PPMD considers this match up even I think. Marth wins it (or should win) on FD though.

 

[trilok]

I think that even with the RPS aspect Falco wins the match up overall.

I agree as well.Usually in the complicated RPS aspect with spacies, the spacies don't have as much of a punishment from winning a RPS or interaction, but they win it so much more and have a decent enough punish game that they usually come up on top.Marth isnt coming close to winning the neutral or RPS interaction to get that hit as often, and falcos punishment game on marth is good enough.

Varist, I dont understand what you mean by falco's approach is risky. Almost everything in melee has a risk/benefit ratio. And I dont understand why you think falco's objectives are more abstract? He has his gameplan and bread and butter combos too, except he usually has more options and ways to get that stock. Every character relies on another character making a mistake...If people don't make mistakes including losing mixups, then how would you even win an interaction? One of the good aspects about spacies is that they actually do have good approach options which initiate stacked RPS interactions on their end, while most other characters approaches have RPS stacked against them. spacies approach characters because it favors them, not because they are forced to take risky options.

 

[Purpletuce]

I must have a different version of Falco than the one everyone else is talking about. You don't think Falco can kill Marth off of a combo? Also, Marth's punish game isn't easy unless you make it easy for him.

In my experience the MU is close to even, and the favor varies depending on what level you play at. On average Marth will kill at lower percent, but is at a slight disadvantage in neutral. You can theory craft about his options all you want, but at the end of the day, his spacing is absolutely essential for his gameplay, and lasers are probably the single best tool at controlling his spacing.

Once Falco gets Marth out of his comfort zone, the bird controls tight situations well with his hitboxes which are out much longer, and his shine that comes out much faster than anything Marth has.

 

[JCBeef]

Ay this isn't some big point or anything but I've been using shield stop lasers recently against marths (well I've been using it in general but specifically against marth) and it has been working really well for me. Especially if the marth likes to corner / wall you out. The shield stopping lets you control where you are really well in this match up.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

What's a good way to Practice ASDI?