PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[BBOY15]

I'm sure 3000 other people have discovered this, but I found a cool way to grab the ledge that seems faster and safer than running towards it, changing direction, and wavedashing into it:

Run towards the ledge, shorthop above it, shine in midair, then use the shine to change your direction, then you'll fall right to the ledge and grab it.

 

[trilok]

I'm sure 3000 other people have discovered this, but I found a cool way to grab the ledge that seems faster and safer than running towards it, changing direction, and wavedashing into it:

Run towards the ledge, shorthop above it, shine in midair, then use the shine to change your direction, then you'll fall right to the ledge and grab it.

whats even faster and more stylish is run toward the ledge shine turnaround and once you are slightly off the ledge, input a jump and your jump will be cancelled due to weird ledge jump shenanigans and you will grab the ledge very quickly. bonus points if you can get invisible shines.

more practical is really just shine turnaround wavedash back ff grab ledge.

 

[Doser]

You can also just run off the ledge, shine turnaround and then up-b to grab the ledge.

 

[KP17]

this thread has so much junk in it, it probably should be consolidated into an archive thread similar to 0room's falcon index thread

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

How should you play the Neutral game vs. Puff?

 

[Zeppeli]

How should you play the Neutral game vs. Puff?

I don't have too much experience in the matchup, but I'd say that laser and bair are by far the most important. How to utilize them effectively kind of comes with practice + reading information that PP's probably already posted on the matchup.

You should also make a conscious effort to hold away or forward at all times so you can escape upthrow rest obviously. I'm trying to incorporate the same concept vs Fox since upthrow by itself does nothing if they miss the followup after it. Falco really needs to be played more conservatively as a character who waits to land hits and focuses more on surviving what the opponent can do imo.

I don't like Yoshi's vs her because it doesn't give me room to laser and guarantees death off any rest. PS is obviously the best vs Puff but FD and even BF seem to be good in terms of giving you room to laser and wall her out.

 

[Vixen]

How should you play the Neutral game vs. Puff?

Keep puff above you. Stay grounded as much as you can. Weaving in and out of her space with waveshielding, CC shine, lasers to force her where you want.

Also if you want your aerials are betters than hers, so you could just do the mango approach and take the fight to her provided you don't **** up.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I don't have too much experience in the matchup, but I'd say that laser and bair are by far the most important. How to utilize them effectively kind of comes with practice + reading information that PP's probably already posted on the matchup.

You should also make a conscious effort to hold away or forward at all times so you can escape upthrow rest obviously. I'm trying to incorporate the same concept vs Fox since upthrow by itself does nothing if they miss the followup after it. Falco really needs to be played more conservatively as a character who waits to land hits and focuses more on surviving what the opponent can do imo.

I don't like Yoshi's vs her because it doesn't give me room to laser and guarantees death off any rest. PS is obviously the best vs Puff but FD and even BF seem to be good in terms of giving you room to laser and wall her out.

I don't have alot of experience in the Puff MU either, Yoshi's kind of depends. You can shine the Puff off the top so thats a thing if you're down.

Keep puff above you. Stay grounded as much as you can. Weaving in and out of her space with waveshielding, CC shine, lasers to force her where you want.

Also if you want your aerials are betters than hers, so you could just do the mango approach and take the fight to her provided you don't **** up.

Thank you fellow Falco Mains

 

[Vixen]

I play with puff players all the time + tons of out of state experience.

 

[Oskurito]

I play with puff players all the time + tons of out of state experience.

May I ask about that special experience?

 

[Vixen]

May I ask about that special experience?

Sure, what info do you need?

 

[Oskurito]

Sure, what info do you need?

Who have you played with, any general advice? I don't know almost nothing of puff, just things like always DI the up throw and go for kills off the top in PS or YS (the latter being more of a double edge stage).

 

[trilok]

If someone really wants to find it, PPMD had a small summary of what to do in the matchup.
You can search puff by this thread with pp as the member and his posts will show

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

If someone really wants to find it, PPMD had a small summary of what to do in the matchup.
You can search puff by this thread with pp as the member and his posts will show

Did he make the Thread or is it in another Thread made by someone else?

 

[trilok]

Did he make the Thread or is it in another Thread made by someone else?

its really just a few sentences here and there.
Its some posts in this thread.
just go search something like "puff"
by pp
and check off in this thread only

 

[V_x_I_D]

Hi guys, I've searched the forums and I can't find an answer to something that I'm sure has been answered many times.

How should I practice wavedashing with Falco?
For now I've just been going back and forth on FD for about 3 days and I've noticed some improvement in my muscle memory but sometimes I still jump too high or I don't do a perfect "nice and long" wavedash.
Any help or is it like an instrument and I just have to keep practicing it until I get it right?

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Hi guys, I've searched the forums and I can't find an answer to something that I'm sure has been answered many times.

How should I practice wavedashing with Falco?
For now I've just been going back and forth on FD for about 3 days and I've noticed some improvement in my muscle memory but sometimes I still jump too high or I don't do a perfect "nice and long" wavedash.
Any help or is it like an instrument and I just have to keep practicing it until I get it right?

It's like an instrument Imo, just keep practicing. If you have a question on why you can't do it just practice it, I'd advise you to get the 20XX Hack Pack, it'll help you Tech Skill wise.

 

[Breakfast_]

Any advice for extending combos onto platforms? Especially regarding pillars once the opponent is hit down into a platform and has a chance to tech/get up attack. Not sure if there is specific things I should be doing or if I need to rely on reads. I know the question is extremely general but I'm not really sure where to start. I've searched around but couldn't really find anything...

 

[Oskurito]

Hi guys, I've searched the forums and I can't find an answer to something that I'm sure has been answered many times.

How should I practice wavedashing with Falco?
For now I've just been going back and forth on FD for about 3 days and I've noticed some improvement in my muscle memory but sometimes I still jump too high or I don't do a perfect "nice and long" wavedash.
Any help or is it like an instrument and I just have to keep practicing it until I get it right?

Watch this v

 

[Oskurito]

Any advice for extending combos onto platforms? Especially regarding pillars once the opponent is hit down into a platform and has a chance to tech/get up attack. Not sure if there is specific things I should be doing or if I need to rely on reads. I know the question is extremely general but I'm not really sure where to start. I've searched around but couldn't really find anything...

use up tilt, if the di away towatds a platform then you can neutral air, or soft bair. Both moves work nice and combo into uptilt / dtilt / dsmash and maybe dair, it depends on how your opponent DIs. Soft bair is amazing thought. That's if you went to the top platform during a combo. If you are on either side platform, try to bring them to the top platform with... yes more up tilts, you can up smash at like 42% or 50% agains fox/falco respectively, idk about falcon, you can follow if they DI off stage but if they di away towards a platform you can't follow after they tech cause up smash is too laggy.

You can also try up air to tech chase them if you send them on a side platform, just try to connect with up air from below wait for the tech or miss tech, is kind of hard because falco's up air doesn't cover as much as marth's upair which is amazing for this task. But upair combos nice into other things on platforms, I've been doing single hit upairs into uptilts, or just double jump drop upair into uptilt is good too.

To begin with, just try to follow with uptilts and whenever they go towards the top platform use shine waveland, keep uptilting and if they DI towards the stage use an aerial, like I said, soft bair is amazing to keep adding damage because the hit is so weak they can't escape even if the DI away. Another thing that you shouldn't forget is that you can always keep dairing them and tech chasing them with more dairs and or lasers, laser reset is amazing because it gives you a free down smash or forward smash.

I'm going to do a tutorial on these, but I need to figure out more stuff, and how to teach it properly.

 

[Breakfast_]

use up tilt, if the di away towatds a platform then you can neutral air, or soft bair. Both moves work nice and combo into uptilt / dtilt / dsmash and maybe dair, it depends on how your opponent DIs. Soft bair is amazing thought. That's if you went to the top platform during a combo. If you are on either side platform, try to bring them to the top platform with... yes more up tilts, you can up smash at like 42% or 50% agains fox/falco respectively, idk about falcon, you can follow if they DI off stage but if they di away towards a platform you can't follow after they tech cause up smash is too laggy.

You can also try up air to tech chase them if you send them on a side platform, just try to connect with up air from below wait for the tech or miss tech, is kind of hard because falco's up air doesn't cover as much as marth's upair which is amazing for this task. But upair combos nice into other things on platforms, I've been doing single hit upairs into uptilts, or just double jump drop upair into uptilt is good too.

To begin with, just try to follow with uptilts and whenever they go towards the top platform use shine waveland, keep uptilting and if they DI towards the stage use an aerial, like I said, soft bair is amazing to keep adding damage because the hit is so weak they can't escape even if the DI away. Another thing that you shouldn't forget is that you can always keep dairing them and tech chasing them with more dairs and or lasers, laser reset is amazing because it gives you a free down smash or forward smash.

I'm going to do a tutorial on these, but I need to figure out more stuff, and how to teach it properly.

Thanks for the reply. I was definitely underestimating how good soft bair can be for a combo extender. I have been using upair recently too, especially when the opponent is above me on a platform, after a shine or even as a combo starter using weak upair to shine (kinda scrubby).

I've been thinking about doing a tutorial/reference guide as well with high level play examples to help visualize how many options Falco has even after the initial pillars when the opponent can seemingly DI away and escape. Showing how the followups differ between fastfallers and floaties would be interesting too

 

[OninO]

Can anyone explain soft Dair to me? Is it a particular hitbox I should be aiming for? Or a timing thing?

 

[V_x_I_D]

Watch this v

there's no video, lol.

 

[JCBeef]

Can anyone explain soft Dair to me? Is it a particular hitbox I should be aiming for? Or a timing thing?

Soft dair is a timing thing. The longer dair has been out then the "softer" the dair. Soft dair is used in examples for pillaring marths a lot. So to do the soft dair instead of starting the dair when you reach marth you start it on your way up to him.


@ Breakfast_ Hoooooollllyyyyy Mooooolllyyy I love weak up-air combos.

Guys weak hit up-air to shine / uptilt is so good as a combo extender what on earth. I'm pretty sure it should become the standard combo against fast fallers on FD. I've been using it some and think it's so good, but could someone explain to me why there may be better options / maybe when this wouldn't work. Can it be smash DI'd out of?

It just seems so good. Like on FD vs a fast faller you can get your standard like 2 maybe 3 pillar cycles if you start from 0%. But after that you can't keep pillaring so you have to go with something like

• Weak Bair to uptilt
• Strong hit upair
• Weak hit upair to shine / uptilt

these at least are the ones I use / know of to use in this specific situation, maybe like a forward air to something else could be good too depending on their DI, but I'm pretty sure that's not guaranteed.

But of the 3 I listed I'm pretty sure in most situations weak hit upair to shine is the best, It almost always can lead to a longer combo or set up an edgeguard. Maybe this has more weaknesses than I'm aware of and need to experiment with it more, or there are better options that I'm not aware of? Would love to know.



EDIT : Okay learned today you can get shined out of it before you hit the upair lol but most people don't think to do that, so if they do try to shine out of it right before you up-air then stop going for this combo - still think it's really good though

 

[Oskurito]

there's no video, lol.

Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8IfDsQrNL3WRhFucPp9AVdYM1nM8vhBu

 

[Bones0]

Hi guys, I've searched the forums and I can't find an answer to something that I'm sure has been answered many times.

How should I practice wavedashing with Falco?
For now I've just been going back and forth on FD for about 3 days and I've noticed some improvement in my muscle memory but sometimes I still jump too high or I don't do a perfect "nice and long" wavedash.
Any help or is it like an instrument and I just have to keep practicing it until I get it right?

 

[trilok]

If any more experienced falcos want to know if they are being frame perfect with their wavedashes/wavesurfs, just use the hackpack's frame counter.

state 1 stand -frames wasted between wavedashes/wavesurfs
state 2 jump -frames wasted in the air
state 3 airdodge -more frames wasted in the air

IIRC, if the percent sign flashes, that means the state was triggered for atleast 1 frame, with frames starting at 0.
if you wavedash around and nothing blinks, that means you were frame perfect. If anything blinks that means atleast 1 frame was wasted in that state. This is slightly confusing because a 0 could be 1 frame or no frames depending on whether or not there was a blink during when you would normally pass that state.

 

[Vixen]

Who have you played with, any general advice? I don't know almost nothing of puff, just things like always DI the up throw and go for kills off the top in PS or YS (the latter being more of a double edge stage).

Locally we have several puff players plus I've played a bunch of people over the years. Haven't had the chance to play Hbox though. I'm sure I'd do well though. Would be fun.

Um generally you want to stay underneath puff. As Falco this is pretty easy to do. You have shine, lasers, utilt. You can also win the air war with your superior aerials. Your bair/nair generally beat Puff's Fair/Bair.

Staying grounded is a good strat. Hold down when Puff invades your space and feel free to be liberal with waveshielding. Weaving in and out of her space with shield > wavedash is very strong, and you can disrupt her flow with smartly placed aerials. You can also chose to go in on her provided you're technically proficient.

 

[Oskurito]

Locally we have several puff players plus I've played a bunch of people over the years. Haven't had the chance to play Hbox though. I'm sure I'd do well though. Would be fun.

Um generally you want to stay underneath puff. As Falco this is pretty easy to do. You have shine, lasers, utilt. You can also win the air war with your superior aerials. Your bair/nair generally beat Puff's Fair/Bair.

Staying grounded is a good strat. Hold down when Puff invades your space and feel free to be liberal with waveshielding. Weaving in and out of her space with shield > wavedash is very strong, and you can disrupt her flow with smartly placed aerials. You can also chose to go in on her provided you're technically proficient.

Thank you, some times people pick puff after 50 losed matches of friendlies vs me, and take some games off me just because I'm totally unexperienced in the match up. This doesn't clear up a lot of things for me though, to be honest i was hoping to hear some tricks I could shiz out of puff scrubs.

I have to say that part of me is just being stuborn because I know I can get the easy win by picking fox and doing the mew2king.

 

[trilok]

Thank you, some times people pick puff after 50 losed matches of friendlies vs me, and take some games off me just because I'm totally unexperienced in the match up. This doesn't clear up a lot of things for me though, to be honest i was hoping to hear some tricks I could shiz out of puff scrubs.

I have to say that part of me is just being stuborn because I know I can get the easy win by picking fox and doing the mew2king.

Theres really no easy 1 little trick that puff mains hate.
Go research videos of top level falcos, especially PPMD and take notes on how they approach the matchup. Theres no easy way to explain how to play the matchup without paragraphs upon paragraphs. A brief generalized statement of how Falco should play puff is don't get hit and shut her down.
Here are some slightly useful general tips:
count jumps
laser if they are low
spaces ac bairs if they are high
learn to hit them/act right after they hit your shield with an aerial
jiggs is vulnerable upon landing after fading away with an aerial
combo/techchase with dairs. her tech rolls/options are terrible.
be very conscious to hold away from jiggs if you think you are going to get grabbed.

Falco is pretty darn good against puff. If you do want a gimmicky trick to beat novice jiggs, just pick roy and reverse up b her on low ceiling stages.

 

[Oskurito]

Theres really no easy 1 little trick that puff mains hate.
Go research videos of top level falcos, especially PPMD and take notes on how they approach the matchup. Theres no easy way to explain how to play the matchup without paragraphs upon paragraphs. A brief generalized statement of how Falco should play puff is don't get hit and shut her down.
Here are some slightly useful general tips:
count jumps
laser if they are low
spaces ac bairs if they are high
learn to hit them/act right after they hit your shield with an aerial
jiggs is vulnerable upon landing after fading away with an aerial
combo/techchase with dairs. her tech rolls/options are terrible.
be very conscious to hold away from jiggs if you think you are going to get grabbed.

Falco is pretty darn good against puff. If you do want a gimmicky trick to beat novice jiggs, just pick roy and reverse up b her on low ceiling stages.

lol at the roy thing, heck, maybe I can try that on friendlies.

Thanks for the tips, specially the count jumps, and tech chase with dair, I do it against everyone but I forgot how terrible jiggs roll is.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

How do I become a smarter player mentally? I have done some bad decisions mid-game and I can't tell why it happened but when I see the replay I see why.

 

[TheRealAlbert]

How do I become a smarter player mentally? I have done some bad decisions mid-game and I can't tell why it happened but when I see the replay I see why.

When you practice, never go on auto pilot and always think about everything you are doing, even if it makes you play worse. However since it is just practice, it doesn't matter. Eventually thinking during a match will become second nature and you will know why you do stupid things and, as a result, stop doing those things.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL0gGuyp9HU at 2:24 is that faster than a Up B stall or close to it?

 

[Bones0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL0gGuyp9HU at 2:24 is that faster than a Up B stall or close to it?

http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-haxdash.390932/

 

[Smog]

I'm taking Falco up as my secondary. Is a JCgrab a good option for a missed shine?

 

[Stalled]

Depends on where your opponent is and what they're doing. If you just straight up missed a shine (meaning you didn't hit their shield) i would probably prefer to put out a hit box (sh instant nair or something) or back off (waveshine away, full hop out, etc). Idk, could be good in some situations.

 

[MadeYouLook]

was watching westballz stream like a month ago before I played falco and he was showing how to short hop from the right ledge on ( i think ) Yoshis story to the high mid ledge as falco

does anyone know how to do this ?

 

[trilok]

was watching westballz stream like a month ago before I played falco and he was showing how to short hop from the right ledge on ( i think ) Yoshis story to the high mid ledge as falco

does anyone know how to do this ?

jump and dair. the dair's animation will cancel and you will reach the top plat

 

[victinivcreate1]

Hows the neutral game in Falco vs Sheik. I'm down 0-2 in sets to this one Sheik player using Fox, and I've never really tried Falco-Sheik. Comboing her is no problem, but lasering her can be tough cuz she crouches low when she runs and stuff

How good is Falco's waveland on to BF/YI platform? Kinda inspired by Fox play (i.e leffen LHing from ledge and wavelanding on to a lower plat on BF/YI/etc).