PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Dr Peepee]

LOL hey man

you know what they say

 

[Legend4ryFlower]

I forgot you were... a doctor....................

 

[Johnknight1]

It depends on how you emotionally respond. If you get tense (as in an angry kind of tense), obviously that is bad.

If you have an emotional response where you don't have confidence in yourself you are most likely going to lose.

In smash bros matches (with any character under any match situation) I get... I want to say "nervous" but that word doesn't fit. But I tend to feel the pressure to win, and I have confidence in myself. I love that feeling of tension. It's more like a "nervous excitement." It is the exact same feeling I get when talking in public. When talking in public, a part of me is afraid of giving speeches, but I am confident that I can say something smart. It's like a chip on my shoulder that drives me to perform better. Thus, I am nervous, but I am excited because I get to prove to myself and others that although part of me is nervous or afraid, I'm going to speak, and succeed. I get a joy out of succeeding and overcoming this worry.

In smash bros it makes me player better, it makes me focus, and I think it makes me milk more out of my strengths and allows me to deal with my weaknesses. It allows me to play good to where I am satisfied with my effort, even if my play isn't good or I lose. It also doesn't control me; I control it. I don't really get sad or mad, but I remain stable emotionally otherwise and enter a sort of nervous/excited/confident/content state that I rather enjoy. It makes me enjoy playing smash a lot more, yet it makes me calm oddly enough. It is like I'm unemotionally emotional!

Playing this way feels like me playing the game the way I want, and I think it brings out my strengths. I'm cracking jokes or complimenting my opponent, my muscles are nice and loose, I feel emotionally, physically, and mentally great, and yet I am focused in. You get to see two sides of me. One side is all goofy, loose, and having fun by being me and just enjoying life. The other side is in the game being quiet, trying to be the best me possibly in the game, and focused on winning (all of these this side of me enjoys). You get the best of both worlds

Does that make any sense=??? I hope I'm not over complicating it. It's just... hard to explain when you feel so many emotions in game (and humans have all kinds of emotions), yet part of you is still playing emotionless. It is hard for me to sum that all up, so sorry if this just came out as a mess of a post!

I hope I'm not the only person who has/uses these emotions when playing... (plus like I said, it oddly makes the game funner for me, and keeps me cool)

 

[Mogwai]

I think we should shift from talking about emotional play to inebriated play

I find that when I'm out of practice, it's best if I drink throughout tournaments because then I stop caring about the fact that I suck compared to how I used to be. If I'm sober and technically sloppy, I get mad at myself. If I'm tipsy and technically sloppy, it's no biggie, I just get over it without beating myself up about it.

 

[crush]

Im not old enough to drink tho

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah but pretty much, I just dont see there's a way to feel a lot of emotion without inhibiting brain function. I just find it easier to play without distractions, and I feel like emotions are just that. I wouldnt call that feeling of being in your "zone" an emotion.. so maybe this is all just syntax.

So you consider emotion to be mostly negative and inhibiting then? What about the part of my post that I described using emotion to change your game and allow you to react more quickly, even if it's emotion like anger? So long as focus is a given, do you really believe that all emotion is useless?

It depends on how you emotionally respond. If you get tense (as in an angry kind of tense), obviously that is bad.

If you have an emotional response where you don't have confidence in yourself you are most likely going to lose.

In smash bros matches (with any character under any match situation) I get... I want to say "nervous" but that word doesn't fit. But I tend to feel the pressure to win, and I have confidence in myself. I love that feeling of tension. It's more like a "nervous excitement." It is the exact same feeling I get when talking in public. When talking in public, a part of me is afraid of giving speeches, but I am confident that I can say something smart. It's like a chip on my shoulder that drives me to perform better. Thus, I am nervous, but I am excited because I get to prove to myself and others that although part of me is nervous or afraid, I'm going to speak, and succeed. I get a joy out of succeeding and overcoming this worry.

In smash bros it makes me player better, it makes me focus, and I think it makes me milk more out of my strengths and allows me to deal with my weaknesses. It allows me to play good to where I am satisfied with my effort, even if my play isn't good or I lose. It also doesn't control me; I control it. I don't really get sad or mad, but I remain stable emotionally otherwise and enter a sort of nervous/excited/confident/content state that I rather enjoy. It makes me enjoy playing smash a lot more, yet it makes me calm oddly enough. It is like I'm unemotionally emotional!

Playing this way feels like me playing the game the way I want, and I think it brings out my strengths. I'm cracking jokes or complimenting my opponent, my muscles are nice and loose, I feel emotionally, physically, and mentally great, and yet I am focused in. You get to see two sides of me. One side is all goofy, loose, and having fun by being me and just enjoying life. The other side is in the game being quiet, trying to be the best me possibly in the game, and focused on winning (all of these this side of me enjoys). You get the best of both worlds

Does that make any sense=??? I hope I'm not over complicating it. It's just... hard to explain when you feel so many emotions in game (and humans have all kinds of emotions), yet part of you is still playing emotionless. It is hard for me to sum that all up, so sorry if this just came out as a mess of a post!

I hope I'm not the only person who has/uses these emotions when playing... (plus like I said, it oddly makes the game funner for me, and keeps me cool)

Yeah ideally that would be the way to play all of the time haha. Channeling the pressure or anxiety into positive energy and forcing a good performance out of yourself. Supposing that this method alone is not enough to win for whatever reason would be the only reason I would advocate trying anything different with emotion, but this is how we should all strive to play I feel. Calm but immersed into the game. Not everyone seems to be able to attain that balance as well(or not as easily), which is why I also suggest alternatives like what I said haha.



Edit @ Mogwai: Well.....what if you played more so you could be drunk and happy going into being drunk? Then you'd have the most fun. =p

 

[Mogwai]

Im not old enough to drink tho

Well not with that attitude you're not .

Edit @ Mogwai: Well.....what if you played more so you could be drunk and happy going into being drunk? Then you'd have the most fun. =p

well, yea. but I don't have the kinda time to travel around and play that much anymore .

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

mogwai i saw ur LoL stream on TL the other night

 

[Niko45]

I notice I always play better when I feel like I have something to prove. In situations where I expect to win I always play worse.

So I guess if I can frame things like I have something to prove all the time I'll do better.

It's tricky cause I want to be confident but not expect to win. Idk I wrestle with this a lot cause I think it makes a huge difference.

Also I play my best buzzed/fairly drunk cause ifgaf + I can still press buttons correctly.

 

[Mogwai]

mogwai i saw ur LoL stream on TL the other night

yo, you and like, 20 other people I'm sure. I'm so bigpro famous that I get double digits every time I stream. SUP!?

was it when I was drunk and streaming duo queue with Zoso?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I actually didnt watch it, i saw it was there tho. I had other stuff going on

 

[crush]

I actually didnt watch it, i saw it was there tho. I had other stuff going on

u shoulda watched it joe. It was pretty entertaining.

Also is instant double jump waveland faster than fullhop waveland for the side platforms on DL/YS/BF?

@mogwai: no its just because I can't drink for another 8 years so I just prefer talking about falco.

 

[Mogwai]

u shoulda watched it joe. It was pretty entertaining.

Also is instant double jump waveland faster than fullhop waveland for the side platforms on DL/YS/BF?

@mogwai: no its just because I can't drink for another 8 years so I just prefer talking about falco.

I believe it is faster. Double jump accelerates faster than fullhop, so it should be faster for anything that doesn't require more height from your first jump.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I notice I always play better when I feel like I have something to prove. In situations where I expect to win I always play worse.

So I guess if I can frame things like I have something to prove all the time I'll do better.

It's tricky cause I want to be confident but not expect to win. Idk I wrestle with this a lot cause I think it makes a huge difference.

Also I play my best buzzed/fairly drunk cause ifgaf + I can still press buttons correctly.

This seems more related to confidence or overall mentality towards tournaments than emotions, but of course emotion can be related to all of these things.

I just treat everyone the same in tournament. I don't think about winning the result if I can, but I do think about winning the methodology often when I play.

I believe it is faster. Double jump accelerates faster than fullhop, so it should be faster for anything that doesn't require more height from your first jump.

Interesting, thanks Mogwai. =)

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

I am having a tremendously hard time against Fox on BF/DL64 and to an extent Yoshi. The platforms there are ****** me. See, the top platform is great and no problem, but when the Fox is above me, I really seem to be at a loss of ideas. It feels like such an awkward position to be in, and I can't go to the other side and shoot lasers (height is messed up)
I know that I can shine him from below, then waveland on the platform, but he somehow always seems faster than me at getting away and suddenly ends up below me, which is probably worse than above me.

How do I fix those mid-height platforms too high for my short hops but way too low for my full hop?

 

[Mogwai]

I just poke at side platforms with uairs if he's trying to camp them. full hopping through them gets you *****, shine -> wavelanding on them gets you *****, better to just stay under him with your upwards moves IMO. In general, upwards moves have favorable hitboxes vs. downward moves, so staying beneath your opponent is usually a safe bet.

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

I'm wondering, if I do that, can't he just SH right over the hits, drop through it, and hit me with a B-air or D-air while I'm still in lag from the move? Mid-platform Foxes are so hard...

 

[Mogwai]

I'm wondering, if I do that, can't he just SH right over the hits, drop through it, and hit me with a B-air or D-air while I'm still in lag from the move? Mid-platform Foxes are so hard...

not really.

also, what's wrong with running to the other side of the stage and getting onto the other low platform/top platform?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I am having a tremendously hard time against Fox on BF/DL64 and to an extent Yoshi. The platforms there are ****** me. See, the top platform is great and no problem, but when the Fox is above me, I really seem to be at a loss of ideas. It feels like such an awkward position to be in, and I can't go to the other side and shoot lasers (height is messed up)
I know that I can shine him from below, then waveland on the platform, but he somehow always seems faster than me at getting away and suddenly ends up below me, which is probably worse than above me.

How do I fix those mid-height platforms too high for my short hops but way too low for my full hop?

Mix up FH/SH Bairs to keep him on the platform or that side of the stage. Once you limit where Fox can go then you can start shine wavelanding or shooting in different ways to lock him down further/combo him.

Be sure to watch how he responds to your lasers Bairs and shine wavelands and try to adjust your stage control and timing accordingly.

 

[Kaffei]

just CC shield grab

What's CC shield grab? and how does it differ from just CC jc grab?

 

[Tee ay eye]

What's CC shield grab? and how does it differ from just CC jc grab?

with CC shieldgrab, you can hold down and R and just mash A until it works.

with CC JC grab, you hown down and JC a grab with a slightly more meticulous timing

 

[Tee ay eye]

also, with CC shieldgrab, if you get tapped out of your grab, you can automatically ASDI down and grab again, while you'd probably have to react and know that you're getting hit with a CC JC grab..... unless you mash the JC grab too, but that sounds harder.

 

[Bones0]

Why would you JC a grab if you are CCing (which means you're not moving)?

 

[silentSWAG]

emotional play? everyone in Pittsburgh plays with no emotion and seems to be trying to intimidate me or something.

 

[Deleted member]

yo kevin, this is just for you.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You didnt deny the batman did you?

 

[Pi]

the emotional thing
i got a chance to test it quite a bit, although inadvertently
the other night.

a local falcon player here, who at one point lost to me consistently, now beats me consistently
so i was at his place, we're friends, and we were playing, and i wanted to keep playing him
so we MM'd, 1$, 5$ 5$ 5$
ended up owing him like 20$ or something, but he was a bro and only took 5 and i gave him another 5 as well (i only had 5s but it was good anyways)

so any ways, needlesss to say we played a bunch of matches where we wre both trying
i had brief periods of...very controlled confident play
the match was going at a pace i was comfortable with, i saw/knew what he was going to do or wanted to do, responded accordingly, didn't put myself in bad positions, edgeguarded proplery, etc.

alternatively there were a lot of times where i was just unsure, i didn't like how he was moving, i hadn't been countering his approaches, and wasn't thinking about how i could counter them
he was dash dancing a lot and i didn't know what to do, so i just was moving around myself, and maybe i got a hit, but mostly he got a hit
and falcon gets to follow his **** up in hitstun, samus has to be a little more meticulous about her follow ups (as a whole, because a lot of what she works with isn't in hitstun)

so there were a lot of times when i was frustrated
i may have...mised a punish, or just got stupid ****ing upair x3 -> knee, or random knee, or nair x3 knee or some stupid **** that is stupid and i hate it and falcon ****s on samus and **** that matchup and he plays so ****ing gay, etc.
any way, frustration, when i was frustrated my goal was to hit him, i needed to hit him and make him stop hitting me, take that stock that i got gayed on and even up the match
i just needed him to stop being in control, had to make things go my way, that was my focus
tunnel vision if u will
then when i get punished for it i realize...take a step back, analyze, work with what u kno


we were both pretty tired, and there were times where i could tell he kinda went on autopilot, and i capitalized on those times

but yea just thought i would offer some of my inssight/experiences on it

and kind of as a transition into my next topic of discussion...listening to music while u play
which i feel may kind of relate to the emotional aspect of ur play

i've been experimenting more w/ music while i play pressure matches
since music often has the power to put us in an emotional state, be it hype, calm, focused, motivated, or w/e
i feel that it might be able to act as a balancing agent, of sorts
though it may also be distracting...i'm not too sure about it...
anyone have any thoughts on the subject? i ordered a pair of headphones that should do a better job of deadening me to the outside world, and basically only have me focusing on visually what i'm working with, since the audio is something i'm already familiar with and is acting kind of as white noise w/ some emotial charge to it

also, just to say this cause i know a lot of people have formed habits off of noises in the game, i too have some
for example, when samus DJ's her DJ makes noise on the first frame, so when i hear that, i know if i used it or not
i also listen for fox's side B noise, so i know when to short it if i mess up
so these things will take a hit, or at the very least require me to find a work around to them (for example my marth friend sees the DJ 'rings' and knows when a DJ gets used, which is something i'm sure i could pick up on if i focused)
but yea...music & smash discuss

 

[Diakonos]

Hope this is the right place to ask a question.

I've been messing around with falco for fun (guaranteed combos are always nice). I consider myself a decent player, so my falco isn't total trash, but I am wondering which specific techniques I should be practicing to make Falco a viable character. Like, dair shine double shine? Shine retreating nair? Shine waveland? Character-specific is what I'm looking for here.

As well, how does one decide whether to try to follow up with a shine waveland -> continue combo, or when to just shine -> dair or bair? Is it just intuition about when you can keep the combo going?

 

[Bones0]

I don't mean to persuade anyone out of listening to music during games, but my personal pet peeve with it is I like to keep things as consistent as possible, sort of like the rituals people go through before free throws in basketball. I use the same controller, I sit in the same position, I do the same warm-up stuff as the game is starting (dash dance on my control stick, circles with my c-stick, multishines, in that order LOL). So for me, I prefer to be listening to the same music on each stage every time, and I don't really use auditory cues, but just hearing sounds that match what's on the screen just feels much more consistent. Aside from that, I just don't like the idea that I may be distracted at all by music (song changing, lyrics, part of the song that has a different tempo/beat, etc.).

 

[Battlecow]

Rrrgh, Pi's friend, not cool. Once people start taking only a little of the money to be "nice" after MM's, everyone expects you to do it and then you feel like a jerk for saying "uh, no, I'm gonna take your money."

HONOR THE INSTITUTION

 

[Bones0]

Hope this is the right place to ask a question.

I've been messing around with falco for fun (guaranteed combos are always nice). I consider myself a decent player, so my falco isn't total trash, but I am wondering which specific techniques I should be practicing to make Falco a viable character. Like, dair shine double shine? Shine retreating nair? Shine waveland? Character-specific is what I'm looking for here.

As well, how does one decide whether to try to follow up with a shine waveland -> continue combo, or when to just shine -> dair or bair? Is it just intuition about when you can keep the combo going?

A general order for ATs I would say is:
- SHFFLs into shines
- Waveshines
- Shine wavelands
- Shine grab
- Fade away aerials out of shine
- Shine bair

It's really hard to say; a lot of what you'll use the most is dependent on matchup. You're not going to need to pillar vs. Luigi nearly as much as you will need to vs. Falco, obviously. It also tends to be a bunch of details branching off of just a few techs. Like Shine-grab/bair/dair/whatever are all just about jump cancelling your shine and using the appropriate move quickly. It isn't so much the type of thing you can practice on your own because so much is situational. You can check out my Tech Skill guide a few threads down if you want. It has all of the "core" techs that Falco needs to be able to use at any given time, and it sort of goes from simplest/easiest to most complicated/difficult.




And I agree with Battlecow on the MM discussion. LOL

 

[Pi]

Rrrgh, Pi's friend, not cool. Once people start taking only a little of the money to be "nice" after MM's, everyone expects you to do it and then you feel like a jerk for saying "uh, no, I'm gonna take your money."

HONOR THE INSTITUTION

i was fine w/ him taking my 20$ it's not a huge deal and don't expect charity from anyone

so if u wanna MM me at apex i'm down i'll have just as much trouble accepting ur cash as u would mine

bones u 2

 

[Bones0]

I'll MM your Marth... >___>

 

[Pi]

hmmmm i kind have a marth
i'll have to let u kno at apex, may or may not train him up to win ur $$

 

[Bones0]

Pre-johns? Damn bro, that's weak.

 

[Pi]

sorry bro i was all set to mm u but i didn't kno u only knew 1 matchup lol

 

[Bones0]

Such is the curse of me living in the middle of ****ing nowhere. 2 hours from DC, 2 hours from Philly, and 30 minutes from a Marth main who just refuses to play secondaries. FML -.-

 

[Tee ay eye]

Why would you JC a grab if you are CCing (which means you're not moving)?

so you grab out of your CC instead of d-tilt

 

[Mew2King]

im better when im confident. Part of the reason I **** Fox is cuz I'm so confident

 

[Bones0]

so you grab out of your CC instead of d-tilt

Hmmm, well wouldn't it be faster and easier to hold L/R and mash A?

im better when im confident. Part of the reason I **** Fox is cuz I'm so confident

You're going to win Apex.