Pound Prizes

[Coney]

lmfao GIMR never said gaming isn't a job, you imbecile. he was just summarizing what he thought 3 was saying, erroneous or no.

 

[Laijin]

lol I liked how we just changed subjects:

Current Discussion: Is gaming considered to be a job?

 

[Tommy_G]

A game can't be a job if it doesn't have a good return on the amount you put into it. As of now, the smash community isn't at a high enough level to pay out enough to make it a job.

It's like saying if you try to play in amateur bowling tournaments that pay out $50 every week for first. You're not even guaranteed that money. I'd love to see anyone live on that.

is genesis 2 cancelled? NOOOOO. is Whobo cancelled? NOOOO. now this is a ridiculous point.

I wouldn't be surprised when it gets canceled if Plank actually got sued.

 

[BigWenz]

A game can't be a job if it doesn't have a good return on the amount you put into it. As of now, the smash community isn't at a high enough level to pay out enough to make it a job.

It's like saying if you try to play in amateur bowling tournaments that pay out $50 every week for first. You're not even guaranteed that money. I'd love to see anyone live on that.

so ur saying people who work but still dont have enough money for all the essentials dont have a job? WOOOW the ignorance.


also im pretty sure the guys running genesis 2 already addressed this issue and they know that pot money should never get touched. DBR's credibitliy isnt damaged cause of Planks mistake. and if it does get damage then thats just ***ing stupid.

 

[DJRome]

note, gimr is just clarifying the point that 3 has made. it likely is not his opinion

 

[Coney]

wow djrome are we the same person

we should date

 

[Pi]

Smash worked fine for me though. Seeing the rate that I won in each game for years has been able to earn me more than enough. Or, at least it should have. But when TOs don't pay out or stupid unlucky stuff happens or people steal then it becomes another story. It's like working at a shop for 6 months then suddenly they decide you won't get paid.

Whats wrong with gaming as a job when you win? he would be OK if TO's didn't steal

And TO's wouldn't have to 'steal' if things went according to their plan.
But they don't always go according to plan, and there is no contractual obligation between the TO's and the winners of their tournaments in most cases.
And the fact that his HAS happened multiple times, even though I agree that it shouldn't, should give you some indication of the nature of these tournaments.

They are not a reliable source of income. and should not be treated as such.

Go try to finance something when your source of income is from winning underground video game tournaments. You'll get laughed at and told to grow up kid.

look, gaming as a job has nothing to do with what's happening.


It's like 3 is saying: Mew2king gaming isn't a job so you shouldn't be surprised when not getting paid. I see a total disconnect.

The reason I brought it up is because M2K has said on multiple occasions that smash is his job, and that he needs the money from these tournaments, and cried over how many times he's been screwed over yet he still claims to count on these things as a source of income.

 

[Tommy_G]

so ur saying people who work but still dont have enough money for all the essentials dont have a job? WOOOW the ignorance.

I'm going to reply to this and just completely ignore your future posts. Clearly you haven't grown up enough to see what's actually important in life.

A job is to make money to sustain yourself in life. You can't call a hobby a job if it doesn't pay you enough for it. You can't put "Super Smash Brothers Player" on a resume.


If playing a game is work to you........wow.

 

[Laijin]

Basically. Anything can be a job.
Gaming isn't a good job, but its still a job.
If your making it your main source of income though, you better at least be on Justin Wong's level of playing like 10+ games and winning/placing in all of them, otherwise its not a very good job.

 

[Albert.]

There is absolutely no reason to respond to anything else that 3 or Laijin has to say at this point.

They have proven that they have different beliefs/morals/opinions than the sensible people, it's WHATEVER.

Continuing to address their posts will just bring more headaches.

 

[ranmaru]

What tournament host would want to make any major tournaments after something like this is blown out of proportion?

No, it's not a joke.

I don't think they should cancel because of this. We just must be more careful with tournaments we go to, and hope that the TO's are careful as well.

: D

You have to get on with life. We can't just cancel everything because of a TO's mistake. No one should take that risk in the future. I know I won't.

 

[BigWenz]

I'm going to reply to this and just completely ignore your future posts. Clearly you haven't grown up enough to see what's actually important in life.

A job is to make money to sustain yourself in life. You can't call a hobby a job if it doesn't pay you enough for it. You can't put "Super Smash Brothers Player" on a resume.


If playing a game is work to you........wow.

dude u clearly havent been to soup kitchens and done community service. ive talked to these people and some of them work get money but still dont have money for food and by ur definition the work they are doing isnt a job cause they not being paid enough. GTFO u ignorant *****.

also their are people who sell enough drugs to sustain themselves but u cant put that on a resume either. so again eat a **** u ignornat S.O.B.

edit My bad at thinking GIMR was saying gaming isnt a job. i apologize for that.

 

[DJRome]

wow djrome are we the same person

we should date

shhhhh, they'll point out we actually are and then it'll be 2v1 and thus we lose lol

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Wow, I am surprised that the change of pace is to the categorizing of smash lol

 

[Pierce7d]

Please keep the flaming and personal insults to a minimum.

And by minimum, I mean don't do it.

That means everyone.

 

[S0FT]

I'm am formally inviting everyone agreeing with what plank did, to a tournament I'll host in Georgia. Its 30 bucks a person. I need a new car, so everyone come out.

 

[Pi]

Smash worked fine for me though. Seeing the rate that I won in each game for years has been able to earn me more than enough. Or, at least it should have. But when TOs don't pay out or stupid unlucky stuff happens or people steal then it becomes another story. It's like working at a shop for 6 months then suddenly they decide you won't get paid.

No M2K, what you're doing is as if you were working at a shop for 6 months, and they decide they're not going to pay you, and then you still work at that shop as your sole source of income.

Smash has proven time and time again, to you specifically, that it is unreliable as a means of making a steady income. Yet you still claim to depend on the money form it to support you and your family.

Make better decisions, if you're realistically trying to live off smash then you might want to at least consider getting some concrete evidence that you'll be receiving return on your investment.

I'm am formally inviting everyone agreeing with what plank did, to a tournament I'll host in Georgia. Its 30 bucks a person. I need a new car, so everyone come out.

Yea, ****ing plank and his new debt, shattered reputation, letting down of his community car

 

[DJRome]

sorry soft, im already running that tournament

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246495

 

[BigWenz]

No M2K, what you're doing is as if you were working at a shop for 6 months, and they decide they're not going to pay you, and then you still work at that shop as your sole source of income.

Smash has proven time and time again, to you specifically, that it is unreliable as a means of making a steady income. Yet you still claim to depend on the money form it to support you and your family.

Make better decisions, if you're realistically trying to live off smash then you might want to at least consider getting some concrete evidence that you'll be receiving return on your investment.

but getting money from winning tournaments shouldn be unreliable though. The idea that if u place well enough in tournies you get money. this has been the norm since the beginning. if u are going to deviate from this norm then the T.O. must inform everyone of this change.

 

[Coney]

it SHOULDN'T be unreliable

but it IS unreliable

and we have MANY EXAMPLES of such

that's the WHOLE POINT

why are people TALKING ABOUT THIS

 

[S0FT]

Bigwenz if someone really believes that not getting paid when you win a tournament is acceptable, then you have already lost the battle.

The reason it keeps happening is because of enablers like the people in this thread. If you keep siding with people that dont pay the winner for whatever the reason... its going to keep happening. Which is why I keep trying to bring up how we should talk about how to prevent this in the future.. but it seems everyone is to busy enabling plank to care.

 

[BigWenz]

Bigwenz if someone really believes that not getting paid when you win a tournament is acceptable, then you have already lost the battle.

yea and thats a damn shame.

and i think that contract thing someone posted: http://img.imgcake.com/smashIOUpngyj.png

should be made standard. that would solve this problem.

 

[Xelyst]

This is the exact same as me in 2005-2008. Then mom kept asking for help and I started to run out of something I needed. A combination of selfish people taking advantage, stealing, lying, TOs not paying out, and just plain bad luck at times is why I'm in the situation I am now. Now the money is important and being unable to receive it when you deserve and earn it is not fair. What is important to me is fairness and people getting what they worked for / deserve.

yah being taken advantage of or ***ked over usually means enough is enough

kevin just started tasting first so he could be satisfied with that alone maybe ... your used to it

plank ***ked up... what sucks is there are plenty teddy bear huggers defending him for being irresponsible

 

[Pi]

but getting money from winning tournaments shouldn be unreliable though. The idea that if u place well enough in tournies you get money. this has been the norm since the beginning. if u are going to deviate from this norm then the T.O. must inform everyone of this change.

.........
Yes I know it 'shouldn't' be that way in an ideal world
But we're not in an ideal world because in an ideal world Winterfest wouldn't have been in the situation they were in
And Pound wouldn't have been in the situation they were in

It's poor planning on both parts, that is the point I'm trying to make, and the fact that this isn't the first time something like this has happened, and nothing was put in place to prevent this from happening, should really shed some light on how reliable these things are as a means of making money.

I'm not saying its right, I'm saying IT HAPPENS
If you choose to ignore this fact then you're making a bad judgment call
this is why you don't ****ing play smash to pay the bills
apart from the fact that your peer may also be a bad decision maker, there's always the possibility that you don't take first, or maybe your car breaks down on the way to the venue and you get DQ'd, or maybe your controller breaks and you have to use one you're un familiar/comfortable with
or your flight gets delayed, or the tournament doesn't finish, or this or that or the other

grow up and realize that smash is not a job

Bigwenz if someone really believes that not getting paid when you win a tournament is acceptable, then you have already lost the battle.

The reason it keeps happening is because of enablers like the people in this thread. If you keep siding with people that dont pay the winner for whatever the reason... its going to keep happening. Which is why I keep trying to bring up how we should talk about how to prevent this in the future.. but it seems everyone is to busy enabling plank to care.

yea and thats a damn shame.

and i think that contract thing someone posted: http://img.imgcake.com/smashIOUpngyj.png

should be made standard. that would solve this problem.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=299186

look it's someone doing something constructive ^
let's ignore it and keep posting about stuff we need to do in the pound prizes thread

 

[Plairnkk]

There is nothing positive that comes out of me posting except for restarting the flaming**. I didn't post for two weeks because I was trying to WORK THIS **** OUT with the hotel and get back any sort of money I possibly could before I posted saying the situation. I didn't let people know ahead of time because this was a TERRIBLE DISASTER and I didn't get charged the final bill until the END OF THE TOURNAMENT so how do you expect me to tell you beforehand? Excuse me for my ignorance and naivety, but I was still under the impression that people would obey the RULES of the tournament they are choosing to attend GIVEN THOSE RULES. LISTEN TO YOURSELVES. If you weren't willing to pay the money to stay in a hotel room with 4 people like I stated 200 times, then don't come.

Maybe if smashers took even the smallest bit of accountability EVER it would not have turned out this way. You want every benefit in the world but aren't even willing to play your own small part.

Smashers are KNOWN to procrastinate until the very last minute and my contract was on a sliding scale of money. The more rooms rented the cheaper then venue. I did make an error, but a large part of my error was putting any sort of faith in this community to be mature and responsible. The fact that people are trying to make the argument that cramming into rooms is "accepted" and the "standard" is absolutely ridiculous. With my calculations I would've been able to pay everyone out in full EASILY with even COMPARABLE numbers to *Pound* 4. I could've STILL paid people out with the number of people who DID come if rooms weren't crammed into.

I said hundreds and hundreds of times not to do this in the thread, and due to people cramming and the no-shows which were charged to me (I feel that if people rented the hotel room and didn't cancel it and didn't show up THEY should be charged, however this is not the hotel policy on events and I was forced to cover there rooms) there were not enough rooms rented so the price of the venue was MORE EXPENSIVE. I am the one organizing the event and if you all BLATANTLY ignore what I say and just cram into rooms and this situation comes as a result of it, YOU ALL are each held accountable who participated in this as well (Ally how many people were in your room, for example?) You can't simply disregard hotel policy and the policy of the tournament, acknowledge that you disregarded it, and then ***** that because of this I didn't have the funds to pay out and I should've "expected people to cram into rooms".

Whether breaking the rules is the standard in this community or not, I do not strive for my tournaments to be the standard. When I say things I expect people to follow them, and if not, they receive the consequences.

If a player is not on time they are disqualified. If players would not have crammed into rooms decreasing the number of rooms rented, which was posted 100x more than any sort of information about distribution of the incoming funds BTW, this would have never happened. You all can not hold me to this ridiculous moral standard of putting myself into over $10k of debt because of this situation when you all cannot hold yourselves to the moral standard of honoring the request of the hotel AND of the TO.


Chibo, your post is simply not accurate. Those were only the funds distributed to the hotel. There were many external factors which change these numbers.

-Some entrants listed did not actually attend - I allowed for registration at the door and so I had extra people listed who did not show up and I never received money for. They just got disqualified.

-Some people were entered with NO venue fee/fees at all due to either helping with the tournament, registering early, etc. I had no money to pay TO's because before I realized I was going to get either further boned, I was trying to save as much money as possible so that I could pay out the winners.

-Some people won entries from other tournaments where the promotional idea was that the winners got free entry/venue to *Pound* 5.

-Refunds for setups

-Money for supplies. Paper, pens, whole punch, wristbands, nametags, labels, etc etc. Everything i need to run the tournament costs money.

-Paid VGbootcamp hotel room for helping with the event, this was agreed on upon us long before any information about prizes had come to light. Also had to pay for the Uhaul for the tvs to be carried back and forth from an hour away and the gas for each way in the uhaul.

-Paypal takes out almost 2% of ALL transactions.

-I know for the fact off of the top of my head multiple people who did not pay their spectator fee. I am too busy throughout the whole weekend to enforce these things and keep tabs on everything throughout the venue, and I know I saw multiple people who did not pay their fees.

-Various other small expenses that go into making a tournament like this happen. Helping pay for people to get rides back to airports when they booked the wrong airport, etc.



Had I have known ahead of time the attendance and that people were still going to cram into rooms, I may have made my investments differently. Coming from a community with little to no integrity as a whole, I am totally blown that you are attempting to challenge my integrity. I came at this situation apologizing in a totally mature way and what do I get in return? After 5 years of being with this community and serving them I get lynched on a cross, harrassed via social networks and on here, and overall just treated like total ****. By reading through this thread it is quite obvious that certain people do not even read my entire posts and/or are way too blinded by their ignorance as a whole.

Also everything M2K says basically is a total lie, as usual, but I figure that's common knowledge by now. I'm not sure if you really believe this stuff in your head sometimes M2K, but your ability to fabricate an entire story around a situation is.....phenomenal.

I post when I have time to read everything and make an accurate post responding to the people who I feel I need to respond to/people who even have somewhat valid points. The majority of you are ridiculous children who are just spamming the boards with impossible requests and not even reading the things I say and actually considering them, so you aren't even worth addressing.


HEY DJ ROME, remember when at Pound 4 I bought like 10-15 gamecubes off of you and btw half of those gamecubes never even worked, and did you hear a peep from me? I didn't say **** or try to get money from you because i figured you got screwed and didn't know they were broken and were just trying to help. I wish now I would've never given you that money for broken gamecubes since you are the most ignorant childish poster BY FAR of everyone in this thread, and I am 100% with everyone insulting your intelligence because it is quite obviously lacking.

I understand that I made a mistake, and whether that mistake was overstepping my bounds and trying to make something TOO great or whether it was relying on people who are, apparently, the most unrealiable people in existence it destroys me inside that I have to hurt ANYBODY in this community. That is NEVER what I wanted to have happen, but I'm glad I get to see the true faces of everybody by their reactions on the situation. I would have gladly tried to help raise the funds with tournaments or something rather than this being my last event ever, but at this point with all the threats and how negatively my entire reputation I've built over the years is now perceived, that is hardly even possible.

I've lost my patience with you jackals, I hope that you are truly happy.... I don't know why any of you who are reacting so harshly to me would ever expect that this would be an acceptable way to go about getting the money to the prizewinners. Stop being drama llamas and get out of the thread if you aren't involved or if you're going to continue to bring your retardedly errant moral opinion on the matter when there wasn't even a chance for me to make a moral decision, the funds were gone before they could have ever been used for prizes. My card had been ran days before the tournament, and they took out the amount they did, leaving me with nothing.

I am trying to post all of this so people realize it was a MISTAKE and there were a lot of factors that contributed to this happening. I could've easily just ran away from the entire problem but that is NOT the kind of person I am. I am not legally obligated to do ANYTHING for you all, I was just trying to help everyone UNDERSTAND what happened and seek advice on how to potentially help in the future since I simply do not have the funds nor do i make the funds to pay these off. Instead I get met with immediate lawsuit threats and conspiracy theories that I stole blahblahblah money. So feel free to continue to flame and be immature, rude, horrible people and undermine everything I've tried to do for this community for the past 5 years and see how far that gets you with me.

 

[BigWenz]

.........
Yes I know it 'shouldn't' be that way in an ideal world
But we're not in an ideal world because in an ideal world Winterfest wouldn't have been in the situation they were in
And Pound wouldn't have been in the situation they were in

It's poor planning on both parts, that is the point I'm trying to make, and the fact that this isn't the first time something like this has happened, and nothing was put in place to prevent this from happening, should really shed some light on how reliable these things are as a means of making money.

I'm not saying its right, I'm saying IT HAPPENS
If you choose to ignore this fact then you're making a bad judgment call
this is why you don't ****ing play smash to pay the bills
apart from the fact that your peer may also be a bad decision maker, there's always the possibility that you don't take first, or maybe your car breaks down on the way to the venue and you get DQ'd, or maybe your controller breaks and you have to use one you're un familiar/comfortable with
or your flight gets delayed, or the tournament doesn't finish, or this or that or the other

grow up and realize that smash is not a job

yes those things can happen but that doesnt prevent it from being a job. it prevents it from being a GOOD job.

think of it this way professional poker players their job is to play poker. Poker is part skill but also part luck. But because u may not always win, does that stop it from being a job?

 

[rhan]

lol I liked how we just changed subjects:

Current Discussion: Is gaming considered to be a job?

LOLOLOLOL Huge laugh cuz I just read the last 5 pages (20 ppp).

There is absolutely no reason to respond to anything else that 3 or Laijin has to say at this point.

They have proven that they have different beliefs/morals/opinions than the sensible people, it's WHATEVER.

Continuing to address their posts will just bring more headaches.

I'm pretty sure that Laijin and 3 are the most realistic people here. Everyone's expecting Plank to pay out. This would be morally right but he's not legally bound to pay anyone but himself.



If you're religious in anyway then the only thing we as people can do is leave the judgement up to the higher power. Otherwise there really is no point in arguing about what should happen rather then what is going to happen.

Also to the person that said that 3 and Laijin are pro Plank.. lmaoooooo



and there was another post stating a while back stating that Plank needs to plan better. Well no ****. But what I believe is that he knew what he was doing when he took this deal thinking that everyone would benefit. But rather then cancel the event all together (Which would save him some of the debt) he went with it and dragged everyone involved down with him hoping in the end it would pay off.



TL;DR: When the numbers weren't adding up and the tourney wasn't as popular as he'd hoped, he should have dropped the whole idea then instead of making the debt greater and a lot of people hate him.

Laijin definitely isn't pro plank. 3 feels bad for him. lmao

Plank's allowed to do whatever he wants with the money due to no legal bonding.

Edit: Reading Plank's post now. I will scratch out the words I may eat in a few.

 

[S0FT]

*sigh* 3....

If people like you just accept that people taking money from the pot is acceptable then they are going to keep taking it.

This has happened enough to where it is no longer just the TDs fault when something like this happens. It is all of ours. "fool me once.." kind of thing.

If asking every td to sign something that agrees to pay the winners the correct percentage of the pot is what it takes. Then that's what we need to do.

As a smasher how can you tell someone they are not entitled to the money they won.

If no one cares about the money, like is said in these posts.

Then WHY are we playing for money at all?

 

[CT Chia]

Edit: I didn't see Planks latest post when I typed this

Did you miss the part where I said its already been answered before in the thread several times? I don't feel like retyping out everything. The thread isn't that long. I'm sure you can find it.

Edit: Basically. We won't really know anything about that until Plank makes another post about it. But as of now the "unaccounted money" isn't looking to be likely true

I think I read something to the effect of this. Is omitting variables still pure math?

I already posted exactly how i feel about the situation in the "Pound 5" thread in the tourney discussion, so I won't get into it here. I just wanted to add a couple pieces of information concerning the calculations for missing funds.

While you're figuring only the difference of ((entry fee + venue fee) - (hotel fees incurred) = remaining funds), you're forgetting about his other expenses. Primarily:

--Paypal percentage cuts from all processed funds (approximately 2.5% of all money through paypal, or about $400)
-Door security (OP description mentioned it, paying $10 an hour throughout the event)
-$15 refund per full setup brought by the community (no idea how many setups the community brought, though, or even if he actually refunded people)
-The price of purchasing all the TV's/Cubes which he supposedly stockpiled (The cached thread stated at the time that he had 30 tv's & 15 cubes so far, i'm sure even those weren't cheap.)
-Webhosting costs for his preregistration page, if any.
-He apparently hired an 8-person staff to help run the pools/brackets, at the cost of $50 a person

And the fact that your venue fee calculation is already an overestimate, seeing as how there were not 394 individuals at the tournament but rather that is just a combined number of entry-fee sources.

Total everything up, and the "missing funds" figure really starts to shrink fast, lol.

-Paypal fees are very small, as you said its like 1.5-2.5%. The fact that I used a safe estimate for the average venue fee more than makes up for this, plus any at the door registration.
-There was no security at the venue afaik, even over night or anything. I don't believe anyone ended up volunteering for it. I helped VGBC pack up their stuff Sat night and as we left I had mentioned the lack of security. They had to pack everything up every night because of the lack of security. If the venue had security it would have been combined with the venue charges.
-I mentioned the setup refund in my initial numbers. I safely estimated everything to account for variables like this. Keep in mind that a majority of the setups came from Plank and VGBC, and he didn't pay any money directly to VGBC for their 40 setups
-His own TVs and Cubes he bought for the event, you're right there
-His site was hosted on a free server
-Tant received no money for being the main Brawl TO, doing the 2nd most amount of work TO wise there (2nd to Plank). If he didn't receive this $50 you're talking about, no one did

So basically the paypal fees and buying TVs and cubes before the event. This can still be taken care of with my safe estimations of how much he collected in venue fees, but if there is any extra, its NO WHERE near $5,000. I doubt it would even reach $1,000.

 

[Summonedfist]

didn't really read the whole thread...

but for those who doubt plank is it THAT hard to call the hotel about it? or can i assume that it'll be "classified client information" and won't be confirmed/released?

as for the job, i don't think one can "employ" themselves to a game. it should only really be considered a source of income, unless you want to call that the definition of a job lol

but yeah, thread moves so fast lol

 

[DJRome]

okay, now i know plank is confused and likes to embellish the story for your own appearance.

i sold you exactly 8 cubes with melee. at a sum of somewhere between 280-300 dollars. as someone who has meticulously worked with online electronics business buying selling fixing things from eBay, i tested each of those cubes at the time of arrival, at the dukes i had hosted several times before pound, and also before packing them for pound 4. maybe they broke in the meantime as you traveled with them, but my details are exact. anyone in nc can attest to my care with such matters being that i am a cheap bastid and complain a lot when things are broken or wronged

i see your point about the card being run, and that is the mistake of not separating the funds, but i can see you had no choice after that decision was made if indeed true

 

[Pi]

Bigwenz if someone really believes that not getting paid when you win a tournament is acceptable, then you have already lost the battle.

The reason it keeps happening is because of enablers like the people in this thread. If you keep siding with people that dont pay the winner for whatever the reason... its going to keep happening. Which is why I keep trying to bring up how we should talk about how to prevent this in the future.. but it seems everyone is to busy enabling plank to care.

*sigh* 3....

If people like you just accept that people taking money from the pot is acceptable then they are going to keep taking it.

This has happened enough to where it is no longer just the TDs fault when something like this happens. It is all of ours. "fool me once.." kind of thing.

If asking every td to sign something that agrees to pay the winners the correct percentage of the pot is what it takes. Then that's what we need to do.

As a smasher how can you tell someone they are not entitled to the money they won.

If no one cares about the money, like is said in these posts.

Then WHY are we playing for money at all?

I didn't say it was acceptable to fund the whole tournament with the pot
I'm saying that taking care of venue fees has always come first, always.
When things go according to plan, nobody realizes this because the pots seem adequate, but every time the attendances hasn't been satisfactory no TO has shouldered the responsibility to pay for the venue out of their own pocket, this is how it's always been.

There are very few smashers out there who play solely for money. The rest of us play for other reasons.

Although if there was a big national tournament, and they announced the prizes to be a trophy, I would still go if the turnout looked good. The problem is that because we've linked the scale of a tournament so much so to the expected pot that if there wasn't one garanteed many people wouldn't go even though 90% of those people realistically didn't have a shot at that money any way.

I don't care if it's worth it for M2K or armada to show up, I'll go if it's big enough.

 

[Laijin]

There is absolutely no reason to respond to anything else that 3 or Laijin has to say at this point.

They have proven that they have different beliefs/morals/opinions than the sensible people, it's WHATEVER.

Continuing to address their posts will just bring more headaches.

You know its pretty funny.
Cause I have the exact same opinion about you, DJRome, etc etc.

Edit: Sensible is pretty subjective. In this case, you guys are the ones who lack good morals and sensible opinions to me. Expecting plank to go into 10k+ of debt is absurd.

 

[GOTM]

yo, plank blows

 

[DJRome]

You know its pretty funny.
Cause I have the exact same opinion about you, DJRome, etc etc.

Edit: Sensible is pretty subjective. In this case, you guys are the ones who lack good morals and sensible opinions to me. Expecting plank to go into 10k+ of debt is absurd.

well, i guess therein lies the difference. i still believe he is 9.5k in debt to the winners

 

[Mew2King]

Wait that's it?

Everything I said is a total lie?

EVERY WORD IS TRUTH

you are the one who is lying

 

[rhan]

well, i guess therein lies the difference. i still believe he is 9.5k in debt to the winners

Believing and being legally bound are two different things.

Also read Plank's post and it's mostly blaming us as a whole for ignoring the rules. Where some of us actually obeyed the rules and still got ****ed over. Oh well..

 

[Laijin]

well, i guess therein lies the difference. i still believe he is 9.5k in debt to the winners

And whether or not he wants to pay them at this point is 100% completely up to him. He has zero obligations to at this point. I'm not saying he shouldn't or should, I'm pretty neutral about that. He's the only one that can answer that. Just know theres nothing you can do to force the money out of him.

 

[Tyr_03]

lol sounds like Plank really ****ed this one up.

No johns. You owe money *****.

 

[DJRome]

yes, i know rhan. but then we're only discussing out opinions anyways.

and what did you expect from plank? we all know the situation and seeing such a response. . .

yes laijin, 0 legal obligations. but morally can we all agree he should pay them back?