Poll, how many Marth user's started using the CG?

[Smashbros_7]

I just want to know.

Simply because if you used to play against Ness players BEFORE the glitch, do you play them normally or abuse the glitch?

 

[BacklashMarth]

I don't need a chaingrab to beat those little kids. Don't get me wrong tho i like Lucas.

 

[Vall3y]

not use cg -> be a scrub

 

[Sans Glutin]

This is a dumb thread. I'm sure any Marth player that gets into a tourny against a Ness/Lucas are going to use it. They would be stupid not to.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Or maybe they have a better method of beating them. Did anyone consider the fact that the CG has nothing to do with skill? Its more of a prefference. I just don't like chaingrabbing since other techniques are just as good for raising damage. Lets see, i think lucas can get out of the CG at 20% right. A f-throw to fair does how much damage again? How about fair to f-smash? I mean c'mon you can get a lot more damage faster that way. The chaingrab takes time. Tournaments do have time limits don't they?

 

[∫unk]

If a Lucas practices they can easily get out of it. Ness on the other hand....

In all honesty, I'd rather have them stay a easily gimpable character like Ness rather than whatever their secondary may be (it may be Snake for all we know).

It's like if I ever see a Fox at a tournament I'm just going to counterpick Pikachu. CG up to ~80% is ridiculous.

And Backlash CG is used because it's guaranteed unanswerable free damage every time you successfully do it. The same can't be said for any other attack. There's a reason why M2K was one of the best and it largely had to do with his CGing.

 

[BrawlBro]

In all honesty, I'd rather have them stay a easily gimpable character like Ness rather than whatever their secondary may be (it may be Snake for all we know).

hahahahah so true.

The ultimate mindgame= letting your opponent win so they dont pick snake.

 

[BacklashMarth]

If a Lucas practices they can easily get out of it. Ness on the other hand....

In all honesty, I'd rather have them stay a easily gimpable character like Ness rather than whatever their secondary may be (it may be Snake for all we know).

It's like if I ever see a Fox at a tournament I'm just going to counterpick Pikachu. CG up to ~80% is ridiculous.

And Backlash CG is used because it's guaranteed unanswerable free damage every time you successfully do it. The same can't be said for any other attack. There's a reason why M2K was one of the best and it largely had to do with his CGing.

I know why people use the CG. I'm not even gonna say i will never use it. However, I don't agree with other ppl saying you are stupid for not using it. Like I said, the CG infinite is more an issue about prefference. You can know how to do something and still not use it for a perfectly legitimate reason. For example, falco is offstage and is using up+p. Marth knows he can go down there and spike him (keep in mind i am implying falco will die either way) but he chooses not to. It's the same thing with the infinite. Sure i can infinite Ness, but what if i wanna mess with him, or maybe I'm sure i can beat him without it. Just consider this.

 

[e__]

They seem incredibly cheap to me if they're infinite. But I still can't stop others from using them.

 

[Benjamin Linus]

I know why people use the CG. I'm not even gonna say i will never use it. However, I don't agree with other ppl saying you are stupid for not using it. Like I said, the CG infinite is more an issue about prefference. You can know how to do something and still not use it for a perfectly legitimate reason. For example, falco is offstage and is using up+p. Marth knows he can go down there and spike him (keep in mind i am implying falco will die either way) but he chooses not to. It's the same thing with the infinite. Sure i can infinite Ness, but what if i wanna mess with him, or maybe I'm sure i can beat him without it. Just consider this.

i understand what your saying but to put it simply people chain grab because they are lazy. in brawl because chain grabs rack up easy damage and take very little effort people abuse it. its the safest way to deal damage. it can also mentally effect your opponent depending on who your playing.

 

[Wander]

I generally don't abuse the chaingrab against Lucas and Ness, but I may occasionally. It's not something I make a point of, though.

 

[YagamiLight]

I don't need that chaingrab to beat Ness or Lucas with Marth. If I find myself losing very badly though, eh, I'll consider it. They'll probably counterpick once they see Marth anyways.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Or maybe they have a better method of beating them. Did anyone consider the fact that the CG has nothing to do with skill? Its more of a prefference. I just don't like chaingrabbing since other techniques are just as good for raising damage. Lets see, i think lucas can get out of the CG at 20% right. A f-throw to fair does how much damage again? How about fair to f-smash? I mean c'mon you can get a lot more damage faster that way. The chaingrab takes time. Tournaments do have time limits don't they?

Spoken like a true scrub... Oh wait your join date is April 2008! Against Lucas, everyone knows he can get out, so I direct the following statement to the NESS ghain only:

Simple fact, landing three chaingrabs is far safer, reliable and deadly than trying to land hits, which can be worked around. Heck, I only need to get the bugger to a percent that kills with a FSmash, which isn't high at all. It would only take... 30 seconds or so to get there. So its not even a time related issue. Its just a matter of boredom. But seriously, any competent player at a tournament would switch characters after getting CG to death. So, even the boredom issue is bunk.

Simpily put: the only ones who actually CARE about this CG are scrubs, and casuals who go on this site. Any tournament player that places high consistently and aims to do so (which is who this site is aimed at) sees this as another tool to exploit in the struggle to get to the top. Enough said.

 

[Dark Sonic]

If a Lucas practices they can easily get out of it. Ness on the other hand....

Can't Marth just dash grab Lucas if he DIs away.

And even if he can't, Marth still gets a free dancing blade, f-smash, ect, from the grab.

 

[Steel]

When trying to CG a lvl 3 CPU Ness he seemed to be able to jump out of it after a few grabs.

 

[Zankoku]

I don't use it because I suck at easy things. And I haven't played a very good Ness/Lucas in tournament yet.

 

[xMiMix]

Never use it, ever.
Only once I have as a joke to show my friend though

 

[-Frozen-]

Haha i tried it today while fooling around in matches with a friend, needless to say, its really not that awesome of a tech. Fthrow> Fsmash works well for me, and builds up the same amount of damage in like, half the time.
-not to mention, its a gay chaingrab anyways. Haha its not even cool or fun to do. -not to mention, its only workable on Ness and semi on Lucas anyways. It's nothing to go spaztic over.

I'll just stick with using Marth the old-fashioned way. =p

 

[BacklashMarth]

Spoken like a true scrub... Oh wait your join date is April 2008! Against Lucas, everyone knows he can get out, so I direct the following statement to the NESS ghain only:

Simple fact, landing three chaingrabs is far safer, reliable and deadly than trying to land hits, which can be worked around. Heck, I only need to get the bugger to a percent that kills with a FSmash, which isn't high at all. It would only take... 30 seconds or so to get there. So its not even a time related issue. Its just a matter of boredom. But seriously, any competent player at a tournament would switch characters after getting CG to death. So, even the boredom issue is bunk.

Simpily put: the only ones who actually CARE about this CG are scrubs, and casuals who go on this site. Any tournament player that places high consistently and aims to do so (which is who this site is aimed at) sees this as another tool to exploit in the struggle to get to the top. Enough said.

Ok, i wanna say a few things beforehand
1) i don't like using the chaingrab
2) i don't care who does
3) the chaingrab is....well...ugly
4) it probably is better to use the infinite in a tournament if you wanna win
That being said, I wanna remind ppl that the question at the beginning was "who uses the chaingrab" not "should marth infinite ness in a tourney". I am answering the question by saying i don't use the CG cuz its boring, ugly, and not to mention slow. By the tim the CG gets ness to a KO %, i could have very easily gimped or spiked him. Sure CG'ing is easy, but since when did "easy" and tournament" get used in the same sentence? I personally don't wanna be booed at a tournament. I'd rather have ppl say "you just got PWNED".

 

[Smashbros_7]

I don't use it because I suck at easy things. And I haven't played a very good Ness/Lucas in tournament yet.

But I bet it's your dream, right Ankoku?

Sure, Marth can CG Ness into oblivion, but the Matchup was always bad.
It went from being a 7-3, to a 9-1.

 

[Zankoku]

My dream? If I really wanted to, I could set aside two minutes and practice it. Levitas and I were among the first people to verify exactly how the grab-release chaingrab worked and how it might be possible to escape.

Seriously, this thing is easy. I just don't like to do it because I have enough trouble staying awake playing Brawl as it is.

 

[MarthK7]

I personally wouldn't use the CG in any competitive play, be it tourney or casual. I prefer to win from skill, in fact, to me that is the only way to win. Explioting a player's weaknesses is part of any fighting game. But when all you have to do is land a grab and get his damage to 130 or so and then throw for a KO doesn't really take a lot of skill. In my opinion, the ness player would be in his rights to knock the controller out of the CGers hand lol.

 

[∫unk]

I know why people use the CG. I'm not even gonna say i will never use it. However, I don't agree with other ppl saying you are stupid for not using it. Like I said, the CG infinite is more an issue about prefference. You can know how to do something and still not use it for a perfectly legitimate reason. For example, falco is offstage and is using up+p. Marth knows he can go down there and spike him (keep in mind i am implying falco will die either way) but he chooses not to. It's the same thing with the infinite. Sure i can infinite Ness, but what if i wanna mess with him, or maybe I'm sure i can beat him without it. Just consider this.

You're being silly. Marth grab attack may be better than Marth's throw in terms of damage and set up. I'm testing that out right now. So you may have to get used to looking dumb with Marth.

And your Falco analogy doesn't make any sense. Nothing compares to easy unanswerable damage.

If everyone doesn't give up on Ness you'll probably find a Ness player that's better than you. As you said you would rather get owned than win with a CG. If you're so worried about how the grab looks and what the crowd thinks then you should pick up a secondary like Yoshi. That will gather the attention you are looking for.

And stop calling it dunking. It's not cool and really makes you look dumb. You're pretty much calling some well known term something you want to. It's as if I referred to WDing as "junking" because I can.

Can't Marth just dash grab Lucas if he DIs away.

And even if he can't, Marth still gets a free dancing blade, f-smash, ect, from the grab.

Problem is, if you're mashing A, then then can DI back and away where a dash grab is hard to time because you've been mashing A (even with quick reactions). If you aren't mashing A, they go for the jump escape (actually they always go for the jump escape but if you're pummeling them it doesn't happen and they just slide back).

The Marth part of the CG isn't hard... after doing it to my friend 1000+ times he's learned to get out of it pretty easily. Still works on random Lucas' though (and will probably work on anyone but a veteran Lucas).

 

[Zankoku]

Just spam C-Stick down or forward. It'll grab attack while you're holding him, and dsmash/fsmash when you let go.

 

[∫unk]

Who are you responding to? I know how to do the grab. If you use the c-stick it's harder to grab attack as fast as you possibly can (resulting in more jump escapes). Plus it's harder to re-grab so that's only useful for higher percentages.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm saying that at a high % there's no point in regrabbing because you can just fsmash/dsmash out of the grab release anyway.

 

[∫unk]

That doesn't work with everyone.. i'm talking about release grabbing against everyone.

 

[Crizthakidd]

if im up a stock im not gonna use the CG T______T just fight them effectivly and use it to rack up a good 20% done and done

 

[Megavitamins]

The most I ever use it is 2 consecutive times, thats it. However, I do abuse it to get a kill move in though. (Grab, when they escape f-smash)

 

[Doodx]

i only tried it once and never tried it again
its gonna make brawl so boring because doing the cheapest things is not that fun becus u do them all the time and get used to them and cant play without them which can make u suck

 

[Proverbs]

I don't use it and I don't see the point in using it. And Lucas can be CGed by Marth. You have to dash grab him, but can still do it infinitely.

As it is Brawl has had some issues becoming competitive, don't ruin the small chance it currently has. Ness is a great character and so is Lucas, so don't be stupid and take them out of competition, making this game less playable competitively.

The only time I'd ever use this is as a joke or something and that's it.

 

[BacklashMarth]

You're being silly. Marth grab attack may be better than Marth's throw in terms of damage and set up. I'm testing that out right now. So you may have to get used to looking dumb with Marth.

And your Falco analogy doesn't make any sense. Nothing compares to easy unanswerable damage.

If everyone doesn't give up on Ness you'll probably find a Ness player that's better than you. As you said you would rather get owned than win with a CG. If you're so worried about how the grab looks and what the crowd thinks then you should pick up a secondary like Yoshi. That will gather the attention you are looking for.

And stop calling it dunking. It's not cool and really makes you look dumb. You're pretty much calling some well known term something you want to. It's as if I referred to WDing as "junking" because I can.



Problem is, if you're mashing A, then then can DI back and away where a dash grab is hard to time because you've been mashing A (even with quick reactions). If you aren't mashing A, they go for the jump escape (actually they always go for the jump escape but if you're pummeling them it doesn't happen and they just slide back).

The Marth part of the CG isn't hard... after doing it to my friend 1000+ times he's learned to get out of it pretty easily. Still works on random Lucas' though (and will probably work on anyone but a veteran Lucas).

Hold on, I hear something. It kinda sounds like no one besides you caring that I call spiking "dunking". No one else seems to have a problem with it, and plus they know what I'm talking about. If you wanna call it "junking" go right ahead. Keep in mind that its rather difficult to "look" dumb when no one can see you online (who made you the cool police anyway?). About getting pwned instead of using a CG, let me reiterate. I "may consider" using a chain grab against ness in a tournament. I probably won't since I'm just planning on being able to beat ness w/o the CG, is that a problem? For me, tournaments are just a way for me to test my skill level against others. Shoot, Lucas might even be my alternate. You can do whatever you want and I hope you do know that I can't physically force you to do anything just by having my own prefference.

 

[nonamedn00b]

I use chain grabs with all characters that have them but I really don't find it fun, it really makes the matches boring, but I do in the end chaingrab.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I don't use it and I don't see the point in using it. And Lucas can be CGed by Marth. You have to dash grab him, but can still do it infinitely.

As it is Brawl has had some issues becoming competitive, don't ruin the small chance it currently has. Ness is a great character and so is Lucas, so don't be stupid and take them out of competition, making this game less playable competitively.

The only time I'd ever use this is as a joke or something and that's it.

Yes, because it will THIS infinite that will cause the demise of Brawl in the competitive community. Dedede's capability to infinite a few characters was almost completely ignored. The IC's ability to do it to the WHOLE CAST in a VARIETY OF WAYS has been ignored (with the exception of Texas).

Infinites do not break games. They just break characters. And even then, Ness and Lucas are only screwed with you choose the right characters. Thats a handful in a possible 37*37= 1369 matchups. If Brawl is doomed to fail competitively, its not because of a few screwed matchups.

Against good players, that understand the nature of this CG, pulling it off will be harder. The match is still intense for both players because its coming down to landing that grab. You can't be obvious about trying to grab, or you won't land it. You'll just keep getting pummeled in the face for trying. If I'm facing a newbie Ness that can't avoid grabs well, I would rather end the match quickly anyway, because I wasn't likely going to have a fun time anyway.

That said, everyone who complains about the "boring" and "dishonourable" aspects of this CG need to also need to realize that this is competition, where we throw lots of money on the line, and we'd like to get some of that money back. A few boring, but guaranteed matches during a tournament are not an issue when I've BET a significant amount of money!!! And that's assuming I meet Ness during a tournament, which wasn't often BEFORE the CG was discovered.

I wouldn't be surprised if Backlash hasn't attended a tournament of 50+ where the first place prize was worth 500 or more. Even if he has, he probably doesn't place high at all. >.>

 

[∫unk]

Hold on, I hear something. It kinda sounds like no one besides you caring that I call spiking "dunking". No one else seems to have a problem with it, and plus they know what I'm talking about. If you wanna call it "junking" go right ahead. Keep in mind that its rather difficult to "look" dumb when no one can see you online (who made you the cool police anyway?). About getting pwned instead of using a CG, let me reiterate. I "may consider" using a chain grab against ness in a tournament. I probably won't since I'm just planning on being able to beat ness w/o the CG, is that a problem? For me, tournaments are just a way for me to test my skill level against others. Shoot, Lucas might even be my alternate. You can do whatever you want and I hope you do know that I can't physically force you to do anything just by having my own prefference.

Complaining and pointing out something stupid are completely different.

People don't care because you're an internet random. Just because no one has taken time to point it out doesn't stop it from looking dumb. I'm trying to help you out but do whatever you want.

You try to be smart by saying you can't "look" dumb online, then ironically make a lame analogy to the "sound" that no one cares. But if you want to be a english nazi then fine. It's just dumb.

lol if you think you can beat every Ness. And the definition of tournaments is individuals testing their skill level against others so I would imagine that's why you show up to tournaments. Lucas being you're alternate has nothing to do with this conversation.

This discussion is dumb. /end conversation

 

[BacklashMarth]

Yes, because it will THIS infinite that will cause the demise of Brawl in the competitive community. Dedede's capability to infinite a few characters was almost completely ignored. The IC's ability to do it to the WHOLE CAST in a VARIETY OF WAYS has been ignored (with the exception of Texas).

Infinites do not break games. They just break characters. And even then, Ness and Lucas are only screwed with you choose the right characters. Thats a handful in a possible 37*37= 1369 matchups. If Brawl is doomed to fail competitively, its not because of a few screwed matchups.

Against good players, that understand the nature of this CG, pulling it off will be harder. The match is still intense for both players because its coming down to landing that grab. You can't be obvious about trying to grab, or you won't land it. You'll just keep getting pummeled in the face for trying. If I'm facing a newbie Ness that can't avoid grabs well, I would rather end the match quickly anyway, because I wasn't likely going to have a fun time anyway.

That said, everyone who complains about the "boring" and "dishonourable" aspects of this CG need to also need to realize that this is competition, where we throw lots of money on the line, and we'd like to get some of that money back. A few boring, but guaranteed matches during a tournament are not an issue when I've BET a significant amount of money!!! And that's assuming I meet Ness during a tournament, which wasn't often BEFORE the CG was discovered.

I wouldn't be surprised if Backlash hasn't attended a tournament of 50+ where the first place prize was worth 500 or more. Even if he has, he probably doesn't place high at all. >.>

Ok, attacking me directly now are we? Lets see, I've been to only 2 tournaments. The first one I got destroyed by a ness & peach combo (pkfire and down smashed to death). The second one was when the game came out and i placed about 3rd out of about 20 (not impressive I'm sure but could have won if I knew more about pit's frickin level). I was at a disadvantage cuz i couldn't choose my character, i had no idea how to play with the remote, and other people had already played the game. That being said, don't assume that this means i suck. Am I the only one that goes to tournaments to test myself? Winning money is good and all but some tournaments don't give prize money. What then? When you win a preliminary tournament, they don't always offer money or any other prize. Maybe they just give you a trophy. I guess tournaments don't have any meaning w/o a cash reward. Speaking of which, when was the last time you won (or "placed high") in a tournament?

To Junk:
I don't think what i said was an analogy. There is a sound when no one cares, its called silence. I appreciate you trying to keep me from appearing ignorant, but I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself. No, i don't think i can beat "every" ness. Actually, now that I think about it, it MAY be possible with the CG.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Ok, attacking me directly now are we? Lets see, I've been to only 2 tournaments. The first one I got destroyed by a ness & peach combo (pkfire and down smashed to death). The second one was when the game came out and i placed about 3rd out of about 20 (not impressive I'm sure but could have won if I knew more about pit's frickin level). I was at a disadvantage cuz i couldn't choose my character, i had no idea how to play with the remote, and other people had already played the game. That being said, don't assume that this means i suck. Am I the only one that goes to tournaments to test myself? Winning money is good and all but some tournaments don't give prize money. What then? When you win a preliminary tournament, they don't always offer money or any other prize. Maybe they just give you a trophy. I guess tournaments don't have any meaning w/o a cash reward. Speaking of which, when was the last time you won (or "placed high") in a tournament?

If you go to tournaments that give out prices that don't mean anything, then sure, you have every right not to use everything in your power to win. It would be no different then playing with your crew/friends. I never use the CG whenever I play with my crew, there is no point. Winning the match isn't my goal when I practice. I am merely arguing that when you have money on the line, you're goal is to win. Purposefully holding yourself back when you could be progressing to your goal just doesn't make sense.

And you know what, I'm sorry for bringing your tournament experience into this. It was a low blow, and I shouldn't have done it. I'm authentically sorry.

My own experience in 50+, $500+ is limited to one top 16 placing in a Brawl tournament. In Melee, I have many more top 16's and a few top 8's and one fourth place. In other words, I have NEVER made money at tournament. =P Probably why I have such a urge to actually WIN all that money I throw away. xD

Once again, I'm sorry for attacking you. It was very immature of me.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Don't worry, i wasn't offended. Ok, I will agree with you that it is smarter to abuse every advantage you have in a tournament involving money. I wanna win a tournament very badly as well. I just have a hard time doing infinites on people cuz of the way i lost the 1st tourny i went to. If money is on the line, you can probably count on me using the CG (I'll have to ignore the booing and apologize to my opponent at the end of the match though to clear my conscience, yea, I have one).

P.S. Nice job placing that well in those tournaments. I swear my area needs to have more tournaments. There havent been any since the game came out.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Don't worry, i wasn't offended. Ok, I will agree with you that it is smarter to abuse every advantage you have in a tournament involving money. I wanna win a tournament very badly as well. I just have a hard time doing infinites on people cuz of the way i lost the 1st tourny i went to. If money is on the line, you can probably count on me using the CG (I'll have to ignore the booing and apologize to my opponent at the end of the match though to clear my conscience, yea, I have one).

P.S. Nice job placing that well in those tournaments. I swear my area needs to have more tournaments. There havent been any since the game came out.

You'd probably be surprised. I used to live in the middle of nowhere, but often your closest urban centre has them, just not well advertised. Sure, they are usually small (less than 20), but its still competition outside of Wifi (which in my opinion KILLS players timing). In that location, I could get down to Toronto in 2 hours, so I could still attend big one occasionally. I just made weekends of it.

Nowadays, I have a GF and a full-time job. I can't attending tournaments unless I'm lucky or I schedule it off. So, I go less frequently then I used to, unfortunately. I did get extremely lucky in the fact that my GF actually likes attending tournaments herself (she's a nerd herself, she won't admit it though!). So, I attend a tournament once, maybe twice in a month now. It kinda makes me sad.

If you're bold, you can always try to run your own. Gaming stores are usually open to smaller ones...

 

[BacklashMarth]

Sounds good, thanks. I'll consider making my own local tournaments. I pwn a lot of my friends so I will probably just advertise it at a local gamestop or something to get some good players in it. I'd kill to have a GF who actually liked Super Smash Bros. Last one was a frickin HALO and FPS addict.