Pokethread to end all Pokethreads, Part 2

[kaid]

The Starters

The 4th Gen

The Retro Classics

This thread is to discuss and compare the chances, popularity, and kewlness of the pokemon listed. If you want me to add someone, ask in a PM. if enough people ask for someone, I'll add it.

Personally, I favor Lucario.

 

[DainBramaged]

I'm no expert, but shouldn't that be Sceptile, not Grovyle in your starters?

 

[M]

Two Kanto starters and all of the Johto starters are missing, and do the the starters have to be in their final form? Some would seem more adaptable to Brawl in their basic form eg. Bulbasaur, Totodile, Treecko. Also something noone seems to have noticed, Machop has been in every generation's game. Surely that would mean something.....

 

[kaid]

There's an image limit, so I had to make cutbacks. Very few people have suggested the 2n'd gen starters for Brawl.

 

[commonyoshi]

You want second gen? Dunsparce for Brawl. Hax power!

I remember fervently bumping the original topic during the summer. I hope this works out better.

 

[M]

You should probably put Pichu and Mewtwo in there because we don't know if they will be back. Oh, and Ditto is big in popularity so it has a chance - no matter how ridiculous it is, Nintendo will find a way if they want it.

 

[DragoKnight]

Feh, fire's over-repped in that list. Fire's always over-repped, but that's a moot point.
I have high expectations that Lucario will make the cut (popular DP pogey representing the new gen, obvious option), though I'm not too sure about whom else would. My second guess would be Meowth, likely as a low-tier option. Plusle aned Minun must die. I like the Cubone addition, simply because it's Cubone.

EDIT: Kinda dumb for someone with my username not to name Dragonite, really. I don't think Drago would be very well-suited to the game, but of course I wouldn't complain if it made the cut. Mwa.

 

[M]

Feh, fire's over-repped in that list. Fire's always over-repped.

Agreed. Less fire. Less electricity. More anything else.



Maybe water, grass or poison types...

 

[splat]

Less fire? There is no fire innit yet! >.>

anyway, i want the hyparactive crazy monkey called vigoroth in Brawl.

look at it, it's hot =D

 

[Kirye]

Lucario ftw.

No fire types, no grass types, no more electric types, Lucario seems to be the best new gen Pokemon suited for Brawl.

 

[kaid]

Less fire? There is no fire innit yet! >.>

Roy, Captian Falcon, Bowser, Samus, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Ness, Kirby, Game n Watch, Young Link, Zelda... and Mewtwo and Gannondorf each have "Dark fire" attacks.

There's already enough fire in the game.

 

[shadenexus18]

Roy, Captian Falcon, Bowser, Samus, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Ness, Kirby, Game n Watch, Young Link, Zelda... and Mewtwo and Gannondorf each have "Dark fire" attacks.

There's already enough fire in the game.

You can't have enough pyromaniacs in the game; nevertheless, you do bring up a good argument. With that being said, they need to introduce a pokemon that uses an element other than fire & thunder, namely Lucario.

 

[splat]

Roy, Captian Falcon, Bowser, Samus, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Ness, Kirby, Game n Watch, Young Link, Zelda... and Mewtwo and Gannondorf each have "Dark fire" attacks.

There's already enough fire in the game.

oh yeah, those =P
I was plunging my head in pokémon, were there aren't any of.. yet.

I'd be hard to think of a moveset of a 4-feeted pokemon, since they can't punch or something alike. that'll scrape like half of the pokemon..

 

[KingK.Rool]

Lucario probably has the best chances, though I will go on supporting Deoxys. Properly made, he could be a very fun and unique character (four different forms each with their own specialty, though at the cost of... something... maybe the B moves?).

I wouldn't be disappointed to see one of the Hitmon's, though.

 

[kaid]

Lucario probably has the best chances, though I will go on supporting Deoxys. Properly made, he could be a very fun and unique character (four different forms each with their own specialty, though at the cost of... something... maybe the B moves?)

Deoxys is nice too... but transformation CANNOT be the B move, unless it is simply a modifier to base stats. (Tries to imagine Defence form Kirby vs Speed form Kirby)

 

[mastr0fmyd0main3]

Why is it that only 5 of the 9 "Retro Classics" are true "classic" pokemon? Does anyone else feel like most pokemon that go beyond the original 150 are just tools?

Just put in an original pokemon...please sakurai.

 

[Wrath`]

Roy, Captian Falcon, Bowser, Samus, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Ness, Kirby, Game n Watch, Young Link, Zelda... and Mewtwo and Gannondorf each have "Dark fire" attacks.

There's already enough fire in the game.

Some of those characters you mentioned not have much fire.
Roy=yes
C.F=yes
Bowser=one move of his is fire the reg b
Samus=elemental fire and gun fire are two diffrent things
Mario=somewhat yes
Luigi=same as M
Peach=one move b l,r
Ness=one move
Kirby=1 m
Do i have to keep going they need at least 4 or more fire type moves to be concidered fire users.

And besides hitmons and machamp would be better than lucario because they are pure fight

 

[kaid]

Some of those characters you mentioned not have much fire.
Roy=yes
C.F=yes
Samus=elemental fire and gun fire are two diffrent things
Mario=somewhat yes
Luigi=same as M
Do i have to keep going they need at least 4 or more fire type moves to be concidered fire users.

And besides hitmons and machamp would be better than lucario because they are pure fight

Samus DOES have 5 fire moves. Downtilt, upsmash, Fair, Missile and bomb.


And wern't you complaining earlier that Lucario didn't have anything interesting? Now you say the Hitmons are better because they are MORE limited?

Watch the Youtube link. It will open your mind.

 

[Wrath`]

Not more limited.More potential.Moves like fire,ice,ect.. punch by hitmonchan,asome kicks by hitmonlee,sweet grabs by machamp

 

[kaid]

You have not seen the movie. Lucario has more potential than them.

 

[Wrath`]

You have not seen the movie. Lucario has more potential than them.

If falco and lucario made it to ssbb i would like to find you and beat you with falco.

If you want me to see the movie give me a good link so i can get there.

 

[kaid]

Click the banner in my sig.

And many have said the same of my Mewtwo.

 

[Black/Light]

Roy, Captian Falcon, Bowser, Samus, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Ness, Kirby, Game n Watch, Young Link, Zelda... and Mewtwo and Gannondorf each have "Dark fire" attacks.

There's already enough fire in the game.

Please, list the fire attacks by these characters. From what I remember Falcon and Ganon have the most with 2 to 3 fire attacks. And what "dark fire" does M2 use?
edit- I think your getting fire effects mixed up with true fire attacks. A Missile and bomb are explosions/ Ganon and Zelda use magic.
I forgot the one fire attack Zelda may know but I know that Ganon's only came from being a Falcon clone (which he aint going to be anymore). . . and is magic that looks like fire.
They seem to just have slaped fire effects on Roy to make him look less cloney (also, may not come back. . . more real fire space).
Ness has PK fire, Browser has B/ Y Link has fire arrows right. . and? Peach/ G&W/ Kirby have how many fire attacks?
Still don't know what "dark fire" M2 has. . .

 

[kaid]

Roy: ^B, vB, and B
Captian Falcon: vB, B, <B, Fsmash.
Bowser: B
Samus: downtilt, upsmash, Fair, <B, vB
Mario: B
Luigi: B, <B, ^B,
Peach: <B
Ness: <B
Kirby: Dash a, Sometimes B
GW: Fsmash
Y.Link: B, vB
Zelda: <B, upair

M2: a, dash a, Fsmash, Dsmash, Usmash, B, Fair, Fthrow.

 

[marthsword]

Roy: ^B, vB, and B
Captian Falcon: vB, B, <B, Fsmash.
Bowser: B
Samus: downtilt, upsmash, Fair, <B, vB
Mario: B
Luigi: B, <B, ^B,
Peach: <B
Ness: <B
Kirby: Dash a, Sometimes B
GW: Fsmash
Y.Link: B, vB
Zelda: <B, upair

M2: a, dash a, Fsmash, Dsmash, Usmash, B, Fair, Fthrow.

Young link: Dair

 

[Black/Light]

Roy: ^B, vB, and B
Captian Falcon: vB, B, <B, Fsmash. I would call that just a fire effect but I forgot how it looks
Bowser: B 1 attack. . .
Samus: downtilt, upsmash, Fair, <B, vB Bolded seems to be just different variations of one move. Bombs/ missiles are explosives
Mario: B 1 attack
Luigi: B, <B, ^B, Forgot how his stuff looks but aint B> some luigi missile?
Peach: <B 1 move
Ness: <B 1 move
Kirby: Dash a, Sometimes B1 move. Im not counting his B seeing as it changes.
GW: Fsmash1 move. . .and really, that?
Y.Link: B, vB1 move, Bv is a explosive
Zelda: <B, upair Forgot how her stuff looks so no comment

M2: a, dash a, Fsmash, Dsmash, Usmash, B, Fair, Fthrow. those mainly just seem like they have a firey effect to them. . .I don't see any of them as real fire. Most don't even really look like fire to me and B is Shadow ball so it looks more smokey to me.

Like I edited, I think your getting fire like effects mixed up with actual fire attacks. Bombs/ missiles are explosives .
And really, fire arrows. . .

 

[kaid]

Like I edited, I think your getting fire like effects mixed up with actual fire attacks. Bombs/ missiles are explosives .
And really, fire arrows. . .

Does it matter? they have fire effects and/or flame sprites associated with them.

Explosions count.

 

[Wrath`]

Does it matter? they have fire effects and/or flame sprites associated with them.

Explosions count.

Yes it matters so you can shut up about having too many fire types.
rayquaza+charzard

 

[Black/Light]

Does it matter? they have fire effects and/or flame sprites associated with them.

Explosions count.

Explosions don't actually count as fire attacks seeing as the attacks at hand is allready have they own name. . . explosives. Kind of like trying to say M2 uses magic, might have some things alike but their really not the same.

Also, you don't look at how many of these "fire users" may be canned. Roy and a decloned Ganon (but he really has no fire moves) could make room for Blaze to be the main true fire user.

 

[kaid]

Explosions don't actually count as fire attacks seeing as the attacks at hand is allready have they own name. . . explosives. Kind of like trying to say M2 uses magic, might have some things alike but their really not the same.

Also, you don't look at how many of these "fire users" may be canned. Roy and a decloned Ganon (but he really has no fire moves) could make room for Blaze to be the main true fire user.

But the results are what I am counting. Over half the characters in the game have some kind of flame or explosion, and Samus, Mewtwo, and Captian Falcon use them for significant parts of their movesets. Big impressive flame effects are Captian Falcon's area of expertese. Can you make a Blaziken that doesn't use impressive flame effects?

 

[Wrath`]

But the results are what I am counting. Over half the characters in the game have some kind of flame or explosion, and Samus, Mewtwo, and Captian Falcon use them for significant parts of their movesets. Big impressive flame effects are Captian Falcon's area of expertese. Can you make a Blaziken that doesn't use impressive flame effects?

No you cant but thats not the point.The point is that half the people you call fire user we dont think are so this argument is pointless

 

[kaid]

So not being able to be unique is irrelivant? Because Captian Falcon is there first.

 

[Black/Light]

But the results are what I am counting. Over half the characters in the game have some kind of flame or explosion, and Samus, Mewtwo, and Captian Falcon use them for significant parts of their movesets. Big impressive flame effects are Captian Falcon's area of expertese. Can you make a Blaziken that doesn't use impressive flame effects?

Well, we are counting 2 different things.

And now Falcon is the big fire expert huh? I only see 2 big flashy fire attacks. . .Falcon punch and Falcon kick.
And trying to make one character the only "expert" of so-and-so is just lame. Look at Link, he has a throwing bomb bv/ Boomerang B>/ arrows B. I guess he is the projectile expert. . .but OZ NOES! Samus has a bomb Bv/ Missile B>/ Charge ball B! Well, I guess she could be the bombs expert seeing as she has 2 bomb attacks. . . OMG Snake!
See where Im going?

Blaze has the OK to use all the fire they want to give her.

So not being able to be unique is irrelivant? Because Captian Falcon is there first.

TWK is right. . .
And Samus was the bomb expert but now we know Snake will be using bombs. . .is he not unique?

 

[kaid]

You forgot the flame uppercut.

You will note that none of Link and Samus's attacks have similar effects, aside from their grabs. Even that, Sami's is bright and glowing, wereas Link has a hook.

It doesn't matter that Pichu and Pikachu play differently, because their effects look similar enough that people don't care. Appearences are everything.

 

[Black/Light]

No, I don't count B^ because it looks like a mid air grab into a explosize.

And you may want to take note that Blaze and Falcon attacks can very well be the other side of the coin when it comes to Samus and Link. By this I mean that their attacks could look massivly different and play in 2 completely different ways but they could still both use the same element (fire).

Lets use a different clone example. . . Falco. Falco uses a blaster/ reflicter/ B^/B> and ect which are all things Fox uses. But even if he is a clone people still love him because he plays completely different even with the use of items and effects that Fox had. Now, take the fact Blaze wouldn't a clone in consideration.
So 2 completely different move-sets that play completely different yet use the same element would be shot down by fans yet Falco is loved and his move-set/ items (element in a way) are a ripped directly from Fox. . .but he plays different to?

 

[kaid]

I didn't count ^B either. I was refering to <B.

Marth and Roy are very different, too, but they both focus on swordplay. Noobs swear by Roy, tourny players master Marth, and people STILL want Roy dropped.

 

[Kirye]

You guys can complain about why Blaziken should be in, but all 'fire attack' arguments aside, let's get down to something, shall we?

Blaziken is just ONE out of how many Pokemon? 700-800 now? I honestly stopped counting after Ruby, I just see it as a bunch of Pokemon in the game, no set numbers. And out of all these hundreds, how many of them are important? And how many of them are shown in only one episode of the cartoon, or not included in a movie? Many of them. I know it's a side fact, but Pikachu, Mewtwo, and Jigglypuff have all been considered more IMPORTANT than others, because of the cartoon which shows the most life in Pokemon than a 'catch and slave until you throw em back in the box' game.

Now, Mewtwo has a big fanbase because of Pokemon: The First Movie, Pikachu is Ash's main Pokemon, and he's been shown in every single episode of the cartoon. (As far as I know, I also stopped watching cartoons once I started working in the mornings). And as I remember, Jigglypuff was in a good few episodes as that crazy pokemon that wanted people to hear her singing, but she had LIFE. What's Blaziken have? Nada. He's been in a few episodes, he's a good starting pokemon in the third gen games, but that's all.

Now here's personal opinion. No, he would not be good in Brawl, no he's too generic to be considered a good Pokemon, no we don't need another fire user, as much as you can whine about how there aren't any fire users in Melee when there obviously was.

Who cares if he won't be a clone? He's not a good Pokemon in general! Even if you could come up with pages to debate me about why an ugly *** bird should be in the next installment of a fighting game, go for it, but unless you somehow convinced Sakurai of that too, you fail anywho. As we know, if Sakurai does add more Pokemon to this game, it'll be one that represents the new generation, and one that has a fanbase, maybe a movie? In those cases, Deoxys and Lucario seem to fit the description better than Blaziken doesn't it?

So no mo Blaziken. o.< There are much better choices.

 

[M]

. As we know, if Sakurai does add more Pokemon to this game, it'll be one that represents the new generation,

As much as I don't want Blaziken in the game we still don't have a THIRD gen rep, and we we don't have many other good choices. I'll choose Lucario over Blaziken anyday, but they wouldn't have a fourth gen Pokemon in before the third. Deoxys may have been considered a good choice, but the whole forms thing would ruin the character.

 

[kaid]

As much as I don't want Blaziken in the game we still don't have a THIRD gen rep, and we we don't have many other good choices. I'll choose Lucario over Blaziken anyday, but they wouldn't have a fourth gen Pokemon in before the third. Deoxys may have been considered a good choice, but the whole forms thing would ruin the character.

Don't be so sure. Deoxys aside, they DID but a FE 8 (or so) character in without including the earlier games...

And Deoxys, if he did get in, would use the forms as part of his animations, not as a separate move.

 

[Wrath`]

@ kiry 497 to be exsact.

In apokemon battle blze would truly beat lucario if both are at same lv. becuse blazes fight moves are s-effective against steel.End of story.

Were also forgeting one thing WHO'S GOING TO REP THE 2ND GEN OF pokemon