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Pokemon Trainer (Red!) Discussion

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
BRoomer
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Messages
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Jimmy, you've got some backwards logic, my friend.

First there was Pikachu, a good addition and the face of Pokemon, but he wasn't the main hero.
No, but he is the mascot, and the only one between the two of them who ever actually fights.


In fact he was nothing more than a tool Red used to get to the end of the game.
Pardon? Pikachu and the rest of Red's pokemon are the one's who did all the work. o_O


Pikachu fought, but who trained him?
No one. Training is a bunch of bologna. All Red does is shout orders. The game and the anime would like you to believe that the trainer actually trains pokemon, but he doesn't. He's just throws balls and shouts.


Who had to beat all of the Team Rocket thugs?
PIKACHU. Who's doing the Thunderbolting here?


Who actually directed Pikachu to do the right thing?
Yeah, Red does give orders. Pikachu is still the one who deserves the credit. This is why I still don't like the PT as a character.

POKEMON TRAINER! So I am pleased with his well deserved inclusion.
I really don't think the PT deserves the spot—he's just an avatar. I do support his inclusion in Brawl solely because playing as those 3 pokemon and having to switch between them is interesting and looks really fun. But Red's going to take all the credit, as he always does.
 

Al Calnos

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Yes, good idea. I thought of that, but didn't think anyone else brought it up, guess I should have done my homework. In addition to that I couldn't be happier with the main protagonist from Pokemon series getting his spotlight. First there was Pikachu, a good addition and the face of Pokemon, but he wasn't the main hero. In fact he was nothing more than a tool Red used to get to the end of the game. Pikachu fought, but who trained him? Who had to beat all of the Team Rocket thugs? Who actually directed Pikachu to do the right thing? POKEMON TRAINER! So I am pleased with his well deserved inclusion.

If you think about it, Pikachu's only role in the first game was that it was the first electric-type you'd come across in your adventure, and you didnt even have to capture it.
 

Fawriel

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What I like the best is that with Venasaur as a four legged character, no one can use that as an excuse against Wolf Link!
Yeah!
Actually, the fact alone that he's a quadruped is awesome enough for me.
That fact alone ensures a different style of play than most other characters.
And most people actually forget that Ivysaur is the only one of its line that can stand on two legs. =/
Looks like even Sakurai forgot. =D
And who cares! Quadrupeds rule, bipeds drool!
PT is from now on always called Pete. (At least by me^^)
But wouldn't that mean that PT Pete pitifully competes with Pit when Pit's pitted against PT Pete?
That would be the pits.



Ignore this, for the love of god.
I am so gonna main Squirtle. It'[s not even funny how much he is gonna own.
It's hilarious, actually.
[lots of stuff]
Word.

Although, he IS iconic.
 

Odlanier

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
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In case no one noticed the edit of my post, here it is again: That's Rumble Falls, and Red is simply standing in the background. No Pidgeot, No Platform.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Messages
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But wouldn't that mean that PT Pete pitifully competes with Pit when Pit's pitted against PT Pete?
That would be the pits.



Ignore this, for the love of god.
I'm afraid I can't do that.

Alliteration is always allowed when. . . illiterate lions. . . something something. Ah, forget it.

I lol'd. I don't know why.

Well, really it was more of a stifled snicker, but close enough.

Although, he IS iconic.
To an extent. I've just always hated how he always gets the credit for "battling". I mean, even in Brawl. Who's going to be standing there grinning when Squirtle, Ivysaur, And Charizard win a match? PT. The best his pokemon are gonna get is the chance to stand behind him. It brings a tear to my eye.

EDIT:

In case no one noticed the edit of my post, here it is again: That's Rumble Falls, and Red is simply standing in the background. No Pidgeot, No Platform.
I guess he'll jump along with the movement of the stage then. Good find. I didn't notice that was Rumble Falls.
 
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Jimmy, you've got some backwards logic, my friend.

Pardon? Pikachu and the rest of Red's pokemon are the one's who did all the work. o_O

No one. Training is a bunch of bologna. All Red does is shout orders. The game and the anime would like you to believe that the trainer actually trains pokemon, but he doesn't. He's just throws balls and shouts.
well in the anime, training is one thing (there are scenes when Ash really was "training" them). in the game, that is pretty much true (the exp points go up the more he yells :chuckle:). wut the game and anime DO want (heh heh DO WANT...srry) is to make people believe the Pokemon pretty cant do any attacks once theyre caught IMO XD.
 

Fawriel

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To an extent. I've just always hated how he always gets the credit for "battling". I mean, even in Brawl. Who's going to be standing there grinning when Squirtle, Ivysaur, And Charizard win a match? PT. The best his pokemon are gonna get is the chance to stand behind him. It brings a tear to my eye.
First off, glad I was able to amuse you.
I still got that swing in me, baby!

Now, I don't think it will be like this.

Remember.
In the games, when you beat the Elite Four, your Pokemon are entered into the Hall of Fame along with you.
In the anime, Ash and any other good trainer always cheers for their Pokemon and hugs it and loves it to death after winning and even after losing.
As subtle as it is, the games always try to share a certain wisdom of battling together, being friends, sharing experiences and such. And Sakurai already made the representation nigh perfect so far. So I'm sure the Pokemon will get enough credit.

The trainer's only the "background character" after all. :p
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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well in the anime, training is one thing (there are scenes when Ash really was "training" them). in the game, that is pretty much true (the exp points go up the more he yells :chuckle:). wut the game and anime DO want (heh heh DO WANT...srry) is to make people believe the Pokemon pretty cant do any attacks once theyre caught IMO XD.
Kind of, but even then, all Ash basically did was tell Pikachu to iron tail a bunch of rocks, right? I didn't see Ash sparring with Pikachu or building an obstacle course for him. You have a point though—at least the anime tries harder to get the point across.

First off, glad I was able to amuse you.
I still got that swing in me, baby!

Now, I don't think it will be like this.

Remember.
In the games, when you beat the Elite Four, your Pokemon are entered into the Hall of Fame along with you.
In the anime, Ash and any other good trainer always cheers for their Pokemon and hugs it and loves it to death after winning and even after losing.
As subtle as it is, the games always try to share a certain wisdom of battling together, being friends, sharing experiences and such. And Sakurai already made the representation nigh perfect so far. So I'm sure the Pokemon will get enough credit.

The trainer's only the "background character" after all. :p
You make a valid point, sir. I can only hope you're right.

The only thing that would probably still bother me would be the announcer spouting "This games' winner is. . . POKEMON TRAINER". It's not that big of a deal, it just still seems like more credit than he deserves.
 
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Kind of, but even then, all Ash did was tell Pikachu to iron tail a bunch of rocks, right? I didn't see Ash sparring with Pikachu or building an obstacle course for him. You have a point though—at least the anime tries harder to get the point across.

You make a valid point, sir. I can only hope you're right.

The only thing that would probably still bother me would be the announcer spouting "This games' winner is. . . POKEMON TRAINER". It's not that big of a deal, it just still seems like more credit than he deserves.
yea. i see it as like training an pet to do a trick though. just that trick looks cool haha
 

Odlanier

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In the end, the reason PT is there is probably because Sakurai wanted a Zelda/Sheik type Pokemon Team, and the only way to do that was to incorporate a Pokemon trainer.
 

Nergal

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Jimmy, you've got some backwards logic, my friend.


No one. Training is a bunch of bologna. All Red does is shout orders. The game and the anime would like you to believe that the trainer actually trains pokemon, but he doesn't. He's just throws balls and shouts.


PIKACHU. Who's doing the Thunderbolting here?


Yeah, Red does give orders. Pikachu is still the one who deserves the credit. This is why I still don't like the PT as a character.

I really don't think the PT deserves the spot—he's just an avatar. I do support his inclusion in Brawl solely because playing as those 3 pokemon and having to switch between them is interesting and looks really fun. But Red's going to take all the credit, as he always does.
You clearly don't know what the hell you're talkin about. First off, Pikachu doesn't come with thunderbolt, they have to learn it through TM (which costs alot by the way), or TRAINING. Pikachu doen't pay for s**t, which includes food, medicine, etc. Pikachu doesn't come up with those brilliant battle strategies. So yeah, Red does deserve credit.
 

Ash Hol

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I really don't like the Idea of this at all. whatr the a attacks gonna be? I just don't think he deserves to be in the game. Grrrrrrr, oh well.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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You clearly don't know what the hell you're talkin about. First off, Pikachu doesn't come with thunderbolt, they have to learn it through TM (which costs alot by the way), or TRAINING.
My, you sound a bit hostile.

It's been a while since I've played Pokemon Blue or Yellow (I don't have Red), but I distinctly remember Pikachu learning Thunderbolt on his own. He didn't COME with it, but he did learn it.

Pikachu doen't pay for s**t, which includes food, medicine, etc.
No he doesn't. That has nothing to do with training though. And the wild Pikachu out there seem to be doing pretty well without "paying for ****".

Pikachu doesn't come up with those brilliant battle strategies. So yeah, Red does deserve credit.
"Brilliant battle strategies"? Like, "USE AGILITY!"? Sure, on the show Ash will tell Pikachu to dodge things or maybe even do something to alter the battlefield, but in the game Red doesn't do anything. Pikachu dodges and attack because he's evasive enough, not because Red told him to.
 

jimmysilverrims

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You see, they give plenty of credit to the Pokemon, In the introduction picture, It's not just PT, but all of his Pokemon there, which means they are all equals.

P.S: Red does do a lot of the work. He has to go through all of this crap, walking around the entire land (searching far and wide) and doing meaningless errands that last a good chunk of the game (Sliph Co., Saffron etc.) and I didn't even use the Pokemon for most of the time. Sure, they fight. But that was one of the easy parts of the game. I mean, which was harder: Telling your Pokemon to do certain moves, or finding your way through caves (Victory Rd. Anyone?) and the Pokemon aren't really heros. They just do whatever they're told. If you gave your Pokemon to a trainer more powerful than you, your Pokemon YOU TRAINED would kick your butt until you blacked out, which makes them no more than tools. No diffrent from a deck of Yu-Gi-Oh Cards, or a Giga Pet. They say you have to love your Pokemon to win, but I showed mine no love, I just used it to fight, and guess what, I WON THE GAME. Now, I hate to seem heartless, all I'm saying is that Red is the hero and at best, Pikachu (and all other Pokemon) are sidekicks.

PSS> That was a freekin' long PS ^^^
 

Odlanier

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I think the fact that he's never gotten credit pefore lets PT get as much credit as he wants now. If you want the pokemon to get credit, just play as Pikachu himself.

Here's a poem for Nothing Rhymes with Circus:
There was one day that was very fun,
The day we went to the CIRCUS.
However, one man had a very loud voice,
This voice would always IRK US.
 

BRoomer
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I really don't think the PT deserves the spot—he's just an avatar. I do support his inclusion in Brawl solely because playing as those 3 pokemon and having to switch between them is interesting and looks really fun. But Red's going to take all the credit, as he always does.
Thats silly logic, in real battle it's the generals decisions and ideas that win the battle even if it's the solders fighting in that battle. The leader or decision maker is a very important position in a team.
 

Nergal

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Messages
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My, you sound a bit hostile.

It's been a while since I've played Pokemon Blue or Yellow (I don't have Red), but I distinctly remember Pikachu learning Thunderbolt on his own. He didn't COME with it, but he did learn it.

Case in point.

No he doesn't. That has nothing to do with training though. And the wild Pikachu out there seem to be doing pretty well without "paying for ****".

Wild pokemon just battle to live. Trained pokemon live to battle, & are much stronger.

"Brilliant battle strategies"? Like, "USE AGILITY!"? Sure, on the show Ash will tell Pikachu to dodge things or maybe even do something to alter the battlefield, but in the game Red doesn't do anything. Pikachu dodges and attack because he's evasive enough, not because Red told him to.
Pikachu isn't very strong initially, plus, being evasive doesn't mean squat if your opponent was trained to be fast & accurate. Again pokemon can become alot stronger if you specialize their training, better known as EV training. Look it up.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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You see, they give plenty of credit to the Pokemon, In the introduction picture, It's not just PT, but all of his Pokemon there, which means they are all equals.

P.S: Red does do a lot of the work. He has to go through all of this crap, walking around the entire land (searching far and wide) and doing meaningless errands that last a good chunk of the game (Sliph Co., Saffron etc.) and I didn't even use the Pokemon for most of the time. Sure, they fight. But that was one of the easy parts of the game. I mean, which was harder: Telling your Pokemon to do certain moves, or finding your way through caves (Victory Rd. Anyone?) and the Pokemon aren't really heros. They just do whatever they're told. If you gave your Pokemon to a trainer more powerful than you, your Pokemon YOU TRAINED would kick your butt until you blacked out, which makes them no more than tools. No diffrent from a deck of Yu-Gi-Oh Cards, or a Giga Pet. They say you have to love your Pokemon to win, but I showed mine no love, I just used it to fight, and guess what, I WON THE GAME. Now, I hate to seem heartless, all I'm saying is that Red is the hero and at best, Pikachu (and all other Pokemon) are sidekicks.

PSS> That was a freekin' long PS ^^^
And that's where I disagree with you. I see the pokemon themselves as the main draw to the game and Red as just the avatar with which to incorporate them. Pokemon were invented, and then they made Red as a way for the player to use the pokemon. They didn't make Red and then go "Hey. . . we should give him some animals to fight with". That's all. The pokemon are the characters and Red is the tool with which to present them. That's the way I see it.

Also, I'm not really sure why people are jumping on me here. I just said I don't like Red as a character—I never have. And I don't like the fact that he's the one who gets credit for things. True enough, a general or whatever gets more credit for leading an army, but the difference is that the general at least DOES fight as well (to my understanding). That does deserve some credit. And if he doesn't, then I don't like that either. It's just my opinion. Get over it.

P.S. Nergal, I did goof on Thunderbolt. You were right, it's a TM in the games. I guess I've had the move for so long I've forgetten it was in a TM. Doesn't really matter though.
 

Yukiwarashi

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Whoa, I'm seeing a lot of Red discrediting here....


Red doesn't do anything? He's the one who catches the Pokemon and trains them against other ones. When the Pokemon is weak, he uses an item on them or takes them to the Pokemon Center so they're healed. In the games you can do various things to raise your Pokemon's affection for you. And it's Red the trainer who decides where to go in the world of Pokemon, his Pokemon just do the battling. It's not like a Pokemon will say "Hey, Saffron City has been taken over by Team Rocket! Let's do something about it!" It's the trainer. Red's inclusion in Brawl is perfect. He's the one who encourages and lets the Pokemon battle to become stronger, and the Pokemon's strength is the result of his dedication. After all, the game itself says that wild Pokemon get jealous of human trained Pokemon, and they will never be as strong as a human trained Pokemon.
 

Odlanier

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What's interesting is that Pikachu can function in Brawl all by himself, while Squirt,Ivy, and Char need a trainer... odd...
 

jimmysilverrims

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No he doesn't. That has nothing to do with training though. And the wild Pikachu out there seem to be doing pretty well without "paying for ****".
Actually Nothing Rhymes with Circus (Which is incorrect Pircus, Irk us. Take your pick.) I had to do A LOT to keep My pokemon alive, buying tons of Potions, Revives, HP UPs, PP Pluses, Attack X's and loads of other stuff to have my Pokemon work effecently. So yeah, I had to buy **** to keep my Pokemon alive.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Whoa, I'm seeing a lot of Red discrediting here....


Red doesn't do anything? He's the one who catches the Pokemon and trains them against other ones. When the Pokemon is weak, he uses an item on them or takes them to the Pokemon Center so they're healed. In the games you can do various things to raise your Pokemon's affection for you. And it's Red the trainer who decides where to go in the world of Pokemon, his Pokemon just do the battling. It's not like a Pokemon will say "Hey, Saffron City has been taken over by Team Rocket! Let's do something about it!" It's the trainer. Red's inclusion in Brawl is perfect. He's the one who encourages and lets the Pokemon battle to become stronger, and the Pokemon's strength is the result of his dedication. After all, the game itself says that wild Pokemon get jealous of human trained Pokemon, and they will never be as strong as a human trained Pokemon.
Admittedly, the fact that he heals his pokemon and such is nice, and he deserves some credit for the role he plays. My point is just that he doesn't deserve all the credit he gets. Like at the end of the game when the elite four talks about who you (the trainer) have an inherent gift for raising pokemon and all that. I just think it's crap. Sure, the game's going to say that pokemon caught by a trainer will be stronger than a wild pokemon. OF COURSE, the game will tell you that—you're a TRAINER. The point is to make the object of the game appealing. If it said that all you were doing was removing animals from their natural habitat to start beating each other up, I don't think so many people would like that plotline.

My point is just that without a trainer, a pokemon can still fight. Without pokemon, the trainer can't. The trainer helps by healing the pokemon and present the pokemon with battles the pokemon wouldn't be exposed to if it were left in the wild that help it become stronger. But it's not like the trainer has some kind of special ability that makes his pokemon faster or stronger. The pokemon are given orders, but when it comes down to it, they're the ones winning the battles as far as I'm concerned. That's my opinion.
 

Odlanier

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I'm not sure which side I'm on...
True, the Pokemon win fights, but not alone. Would S,I,and C come up with the brilliant idea of tagging out when they're tired? I don't really think so. The Pokemon Trainer deserves credit at least for deciding which Pokemon to use, if not for doing the actual fighting.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Actually Nothing Rhymes with Circus (Which is incorrect Pircus, Irk us. Take your pick.) I had to do A LOT to keep My pokemon alive, buying tons of Potions, Revives, HP UPs, PP Pluses, Attack X's and loads of other stuff to have my Pokemon work effecently. So yeah, I had to buy **** to keep my Pokemon alive.
You're not the first one to tell my random words that rhyme with "circus". Several people have mentioned the weirdest words to me. I don't care.

And I don't want to mock your training abilities, but I personally rarely had to buy my pokemon those things. I basically only had to use them a lot for the Elite Four. And yes, healing is important, as I said. But all I'm saying is that the wild pokemon clearly don't NEED those things, since they don't have anyone to buy them for them. They survive well without a trainer, even if they're not as strong (who says they even want to be?)

Honestly though, I think you're all taking my opinion a little too close to heart. I just don't like Red. I support him in Brawl due to how interesting his pokemon look like they're going to be to play as. It's just my personal view that the PT would get more credit than he deserves when the announcer says "PT wins". Please just get over it.
 

Odlanier

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you realize that what you're all arguing over is incredibly stupid and, at this junction, irrelevant right?
I agree, let's talk aboutsome actual strategic things, such as how much lag there'll be within changes. OO! I've got that! Let's see...

notice that Ivysaur disappears, Charizard's pokeball is already going onto the stage. Iguess this means very little lag.
 
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Admittedly, the fact that he heals his pokemon and such is nice, and he deserves some credit for the role he plays. My point is just that he doesn't deserve all the credit he gets. Like at the end of the game when the elite four talks about who you (the trainer) have an inherent gift for raising pokemon and all that. I just think it's crap. Sure, the game's going to say that pokemon caught by a trainer will be stronger than a wild pokemon. OF COURSE, the game will tell you that—you're a TRAINER. The point is to make the object of the game appealing. If it said that all you were doing was removing animals from their natural habitat to start beating each other up, I don't think so many people would like that plotline.

My point is just that without a trainer, a pokemon can still fight. Without pokemon, the trainer can't. The trainer helps by healing the pokemon and present the pokemon with battles the pokemon wouldn't be exposed to if it were left in the wild that help it become stronger. But it's not like the trainer has some kind of special ability that makes his pokemon faster or stronger. The pokemon are given orders, but when it comes down to it, they're the ones winning the battles as far as I'm concerned. That's my opinion.
Technically he does make the pokemon stronger and faster and all that stuff... With Effort Values... I don't know if you know this or not but each pokemon in the game gives various effort values. For example if you defeat a Pichu you will get one Effort Value in speed. So if you defeat four pichus you your speed will go up by 1 point when your pokemon levels up. Wild pokemon cannot gain effort values. So a pokemon with a Trainer will be stronger than a wild pokemon. Also Wild Pokemon do not get to choose what moves they have when they level up, so if a wild Politoed learns splash at level 34 it doesn't get to choose wether or not it wants to remove bubble beam from its moveset... It has to.
 

jimmysilverrims

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Okay, Pokemon Trainer is the Batman to Pikachu's Robin.

Moving on...

I have seen only on moveset Idea for PT's Pokemon and they really didn't ipress me incredibly. If I could see a good one (Or make a good one myself) That would be better than beating this dead horse.

PS. Percuss isn't fictional.

percuss
v.t. strike, tap, especially part of body in medical diagnosis. percussion, n. act of striking violently; impact of violent sound on ear; musical instrument as drums, etc., sounded by being struck. percussive, a.

There is also hircus, which I found funny:

hir·cus (hûrks)
n. pl. hir·ci (-s)

The odor of the armpits.
See tragus.
 

Black/Light

Smash Master
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. . . .Red "deserves" to be in smash because he is in the game. There, so Sakurai says he "deserves" it so he does.
(He is the main character for goddess's sake)

The end. . .
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Messages
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Technically he does make the pokemon stronger and faster and all that stuff... With Effort Values... I don't know if you know this or not but each pokemon in the game gives various effort values. For example if you defeat a Pichu you will get one Effort Value in speed. So if you defeat four pichus you your speed will go up by 1 point when your pokemon levels up. Wild pokemon cannot gain effort values. So a pokemon with a Trainer will be stronger than a wild pokemon. Also Wild Pokemon do not get to choose what moves they have when they level up, so if a wild Politoed learns splash at level 34 it doesn't get to choose wether or not it wants to remove bubble beam from its moveset... It has to.
I did not know about this, so thank you for enlightening me. But it doesn't really matter. I'm not talking about this in terms of programming, I'm speaking in terms of a "true" (if you will), Trainer-to-pokemon relationship.

You may earn these Effort Value things in the game, but that's only because it makes sense to do so for the purposes of the video game. It isn't somehow part of the plot that the trainer has something special about him that magically awakens a pokemon's true potential. From a literal view, the way I see it, the reason caught pokemon get stronger than wild pokemon is because the trainer takes the pokemon to battle different, tougher enemies. That's one of the things the trainer is useful for. And yes, he does deserve credit for that.

All I'm saying is that I think the position of trainer is played up too much. I did not expect to have to defend myself like this—it's just my opinion. I don't know why you all seem so adamant about fighting me about it.

PS. Percuss isn't fictional.

percuss
v.t. strike, tap, especially part of body in medical diagnosis. percussion, n. act of striking violently; impact of violent sound on ear; musical instrument as drums, etc., sounded by being struck. percussive, a.

There is also hircus, which I found funny:

hir·cus (hûrks)
n. pl. hir·ci (-s)

The odor of the armpits.
See tragus.
I never said it was fictional. I believe you, I just don't care. Why did you bother posting this?
 

jimmysilverrims

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Finally!

And, to reiterate what I just said: 'Pokemon Trainer is the Batman to Pikachu's Robin. So let's just drop it and start talking about PT vs. Pikachu!

To the Venasaur dissapearing as Charizard's Pokeball goes out dissapoint's me a little. I'll miss the Red beam that puts Pokemon in their balls in the Anime, but this is much more true to the games, so I like this one too. Less lag is good, I was worried that during the exchange someone could charge up a smash and KO me as soon as I change.
 

Nergal

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The pokemon are probably invulnerable for a brief moment upon switching in.
 

Odlanier

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
197
about PT vs. Pikachu... Pika doesn't have a stamina meter, he can stay out as long as he wants. This is, of course, because if PT's Pokemon didn't, there would be a whole new Zelda/Sheik stuation.
Also, this is either a wild Pikachu, or you are its trainer, because it doesn't have one. Unless you count the fact that his intro in SSB64 was coming out of a pokeball...
 
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