Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon Released! Discuss here!

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Not a bad trailer, like the new mons and the evolutions are version exclusive, surprising...

Yeah, it's better than what we got last week.

I don't mind them being version-exclusive, as I don't intend to use any of those in my team.

 

[DJ3DS]

Overall, the new trailer is probably the best in a while, largely thanks to Oranguru. Not because of the flood of Harambe memes it caused in less than 5 minutes but because it's a cool typing (Normal/Psychic is surprisingly good) and because Instruct (whilst it'll be useless in singles) is potentially really, really interesting in doubles. There's the obvious double earthquakes from Primal Groudon in VGC sort of stuff, but if this has good enough speed? Slap on a Choice Scarf, pair it with an obnoxiously slow but powerful Pokemon with good spread moves holding a Choice Band (Rhyperior is the first thing that comes to mind) and presumably watch a Scarved, Banded Pokemon with the ability to switch moves absolutely go to town. It can potentially still have a singles niche as well; just don't teach it that move.

Sun's exclusive is only really interesting for the leaks it gives credence to; as the ability is far too niche and useless in singles and the typing is bland.

Speaking of bland, whilst I was expecting Rockruff's evos to appear I wasn't expecting them to be so boring. No secondary types? No particularly exciting ability? For Pokemon hyped up like these were it's a thorough buzzkill.

Pikachu's Z-Move mostly made me cringe due to the stupidity of the dancing, but let's talk about Eevee for a second - particularly, that it learns Baton Pass. +2 in every single stat in one turn that you can Baton Pass over to a Pokemon of your choosing? I'd be surprised if Eevee doesn't get serious use in singles in some tier due to this alone.

 

[Murlough]

If you are referring to smogon tiers, baton passing speed plus any other stat is banned unfortunately.

Eviolite Eevee may see some serious use though. At least in LC.

I'm actually impressed. I am dissappointed with rockruffs evos (especially the version exclusive thing. Why? Just do the espeon/umbreon thing...) but that character customization though! Very impressive.

Compared to games like Destiny this game actually makes character customization fun and unique assuming we didnt just see everything (and there is no way we did.)

I don't care much for the monkeys but god do they sound terrifying in VGC format. Wonderguard passed to the first one...as was said above, spamming two earthquakes from Primal Groudon every turn? The monkeys are here to take doubles man.

I am actually starting to like the poses...I must be riding the hype too much. I hope those animations are able to be shortened or outright skipped though...they take up so much time. Especially eevee's.

 

[DJ3DS]

If you are referring to smogon tiers, baton passing speed plus any other stat is banned unfortunately.

Eviolite Eevee may see some serious use though. At least in LC.

I was referring to those in general as I didn't realise Smogon had got to the point where they ban an entire team archetype rather than figure out how to counterplay it.

How about some other disgusting Oranguru applications? Pair it up with a Choice Band Giga Impact Slaking to give it the ability to throw this move out every turn. To give some perspective, the move OHKOes virtually every Pokemon that doesn't resist it, and comfortably 2HKOes most which do, even Skarmory...

 

[Tizio Random]

I can't choose between picking the boy or the girl, the boy has some customization this time around unlike in X&Y!

 

[Murlough]

I was referring to those in general as I didn't realise Smogon had got to the point where they ban an entire team archetype rather than figure out how to counterplay it.

How about some other disgusting Oranguru applications? Pair it up with a Choice Band Giga Impact Slaking to give it the ability to throw this move out every turn. To give some perspective, the move OHKOes virtually every Pokemon that doesn't resist it, and comfortably 2HKOes most which do, even Skarmory...

They didn't do that actually. If you want to boost every stat but speed and pass it that is fine. But with speed too it becomes "broken."

I don't know exactly why but I'd assume a monster that outspeeds, outdamages, and outtanks everything in the game (in singles) with brain-dead setup was deemed unfair in a competitive envirnment. At least there are options in doubles.

....thats insane. I'm willing to bet that the monkey will rip doubles a new one straight after release. I just hope it isn't mega khanga all over again....wait. 4 power up punches are possible with the monkey and Mega Khanga...assuming megas aren't completely removed.

Rip Doubles hello Rotation battles?

 

[MajinBuu272]

anyone else notice that moon seems to be getting the better mons? dont get me wrong i like the sun pokemon too but the moon pokemon seem to be a bit cooler imo. (Sun for life tho)

 

[Murlough]

I personally like the sun mons better.

 

[DJ3DS]

They didn't do that actually. If you want to boost every stat but speed and pass it that is fine. But with speed too it becomes "broken."

I don't know exactly why but I'd assume a monster that outspeeds, outdamages, and outtanks everything in the game (in singles) with brain-dead setup was deemed unfair in a competitive envirnment. At least there are options in doubles.

....thats insane. I'm willing to bet that the monkey will rip doubles a new one straight after release. I just hope it isn't mega khanga all over again....wait. 4 power up punches are possible with the monkey and Mega Khanga...assuming megas aren't completely removed.

Rip Doubles hello Rotation battles?

I'd have to read more on it but in all my time battling BP strategies had tons of counterplay.

So many disgusting Oranguru possibilities. Mega Kanga is probably one I'll try in the Maison for easy BP, but there are even uglier things you can do. I'd like to see how it works with negative priority moves, because if it removes the negative priority as it instructs the move that's a whole new can of worms, such as firing off a guaranteed Mega Kanga Focus Punch.

 

[Murlough]

Just viewed some youtube comments (why?) and actually saw a really interesting comment.

What if Oranguru's move works on Z-moves? Evoboost twice? This gen is wild.

 

[MajinBuu272]

The sun version exclusive monkey (cant remember its name, simi-something) has potential with its ability too, it could technically receive any ability in the game, parental bond, fur coat, ect.

 

[DJ3DS]

The sun version exclusive monkey (cant remember its name, simi-something) has potential with its ability too, it could technically receive any ability in the game, parental bond, fur coat, ect.

It's much more situational though. If it worked in singles then it would make the Pokemon genuinely quite scary as it could come in and copy very powerful abilities like Pure Power, but I don't think it does so the most I've seen suggested is copying a Shedinja teammate (which, given they made the Wonder Guard ability unable to be swapped, seems unlikely to work).

Moon definitely got the better end of the stick here.

 

[MajinBuu272]

yeah, it'll probably be like skill swap and have certain abilities it cant use such as wonder guard or multicolor, best way i see to easily copy an ability in doubles is to switch it in while you have at leas 1 weakened Pokemon on the field

 

[Aetheri]

They didn't do that actually. If you want to boost every stat but speed and pass it that is fine. But with speed too it becomes "broken."

I don't know exactly why but I'd assume a monster that outspeeds, outdamages, and outtanks everything in the game (in singles) with brain-dead setup was deemed unfair in a competitive envirnment. At least there are options in doubles.

....thats insane. I'm willing to bet that the monkey will rip doubles a new one straight after release. I just hope it isn't mega khanga all over again....wait. 4 power up punches are possible with the monkey and Mega Khanga...assuming megas aren't completely removed.

Rip Doubles hello Rotation battles?

I think Speed Boosters have something to do with it...Ninjask, Yanmega and Scolipede...

Use Agility then get Speed Boost the same turn...that's plus three on one turn...if they get greedy that's max speed after two turns...

 

[Fluttershy]

there's actually quite a few ways to remove Baton Pass as a threat that Smogon doesn't really care for.. Whirlwind/Roar, Taunt, Clear Smog/haze, and just the setup part that make it gimmicky.. But if they are able to set up which is rather easy with certain speed boost pokemon namely Ninjask, and Scolipede.. but if you can get the boosts anything that gets Priority moves is going to deal some damage.. (just imagine Bruxish with a few Quiver dances and Dazzling lol)

I think Speed Boosters have something to do with it...Ninjask, Yanmega and Scolipede...

Yanmega doesn't get Baton Pass though
Instruct is probably going to be banned in competitive Doubles lol

 

[Murlough]

I think Speed Boosters have something to do with it...Ninjask, Yanmega and Scolipede...

Use Agility then get Speed Boost the same turn...that's plus three on one turn...if they get greedy that's max speed after two turns...

Yeah then pass it to something like sigilyph or clefable with cosmic power, then whence at max speed and both defenses pass it to a dragon dancer.

Profit. Everything else on the team can be based around countering counter play. Is toxic a viable move against baton passing? Well I'll add a mon immune to poison, a magic bouncer, and or a heal beller.

This archetype had a cool concept but games against it pretty much solely came down to whether or not you could hax out the opponent. Worse than stall tbh.

 

[DJ3DS]

From the Sun/Moon website:

"Oranguru sometimes act on their own initiative and will use items that only humans normally use. From a Trainer’s perspective, they can be hard Pokémon to handle at times. Allegedly, there have been sightings of Oranguru using Poké Balls!"

This just got a whole lot darker...

From having just looked it up, the reason Baton Pass got banned is because Magic Bounce Espeon invalidated the more popular methods of dealing with in phazing. There were plenty of alternative methods of dealing with it, just none that Smogon were prepared to entertain using.

As an example, having a Ghost type Pokemon with Curse completely invalidates Baton Pass teams as Curse is passed along the chain. Back when I laddered (Gen 5 DW Ubers) I had a Chandelure with this move and never lost to a Baton Pass team.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Passimian looks pretty nice. Not amongst my favorites of this gen but still pretty appealing. Primeape will remain my favorite Fighting monkey though.
Oranguru's just there for me. Looks like it could be really useful in doubles but otherwise I just don't care much. What's with that Normal/ Psychic typing though?
Version exclusivity for Lycanroc's kinda disappointing but at the same time I don't care too much since I can still get my hands on the Midnight version without trading. Pure Rock for both though... eh. I think that's kind of disappointing yet at the same time the amount of pure Rock types (especially if we just take final evolutions into account) is pretty small, so it's no big deal.
Pikachu's Z-Move looks cool but unfortunately it won't be used over Light Ball.
Eevee's actually gives it reason to be used for once lol.

 

[DJ3DS]

Passimian looks pretty nice. Not amongst my favorites of this gen but still pretty appealing. Primeape will remain my favorite Fighting monkey though.
Oranguru's just there for me. Looks like it could be really useful in doubles but otherwise I just don't care much. What's with that Normal/ Psychic typing though?
Version exclusivity for Lycanroc's kinda disappointing but at the same time I don't care too much since I can still get my hands on the Midnight version without trading. Pure Rock for both though... eh. I think that's kind of disappointing yet at the same time the amount of pure Rock types (especially if we just take final evolutions into account) is pretty small, so it's no big deal.
Pikachu's Z-Move looks cool but unfortunately it won't be used over Light Ball.
Eevee's actually gives it reason to be used for once lol.

Normal/Psychic is a surprisingly decent typing, especially for doubles - as it's only weak to Bug/Dark, neither of which are common attacking types due to their lack of good spread moves. I think it works fine with regards to flavour as well.

 

[Aetheri]

Normal/Psychic is a surprisingly decent typing, especially for doubles - as it's only weak to Bug/Dark, neither of which are common attacking types due to their lack of good spread moves. I think it works fine with regards to flavour as well.

Knock Off, Foul Play, and Sucker Punch are actually pretty common moves competitively though...there's also Pursuit trappers...

But yeah Normal/Psychic is a good typing as the Ghost and Fighting weaknesses are removed from both types...

 

[DJ3DS]

Knock Off, Foul Play, and Sucker Punch are actually pretty common moves competitively though...there's also Pursuit trappers...

But yeah Normal/Psychic is a good typing as the Ghost and Fighting weaknesses are removed from both types...

Foul Play is probably going to be meaningless against this Pokemon, as is (certainly) Sucker Punch - and when was Pursuit a common move in competitive doubles formats like VGC? Incredibly useful in singles, don't get me wrong, but not here. Knock Off also suffers in such formats; as most have a Mega and a Primal that's half the team it potentially doesn't deal increased damage or an effect to.

 

[Z25]

The monkeys both have a lot of potential with their abilities. I could see both be banned by smogen depending on their limits.

Also you could give passimian protean. Which could help it out depending on it's movepool.

And I like both game's exclusives. They've done a great job this time, making it hard to choose which version. Going to stick with sun though, but it's nice that each version exclusive appeals to a large crowd.

 

[Erureido]

Copy and pasting my thoughts from the Nintenzone social.

Both monkeys look pretty neat, though I'm digging Passimian more. I like its color scheme more, as well as the design. It looks like a mixture of a rugby and a football player. The berry as a helmet and a berry as a ball are really nice touch. It's ability looks really interesting too. While it won't do much in Singles, it's got a lot of neat strategies for Doubles. It's up there among my favorite Alola Pokemon at the moment, and I have a feeling I'll like the Pokemon even more when I play the games.

Oranguru looks cool too. Nice to see Girafarig and Meloetta won't be the only Normal/Psychic-types now. It looks like another Doubles-oriented Pokemon thanks to its new move Instruct, and the combination with Telepathy will be pretty good.

I'm surprised that both Lycanroc forms didn't gain a secondary-type. I think it's for the best though. Giving it another type will probably increase the number of weaknesses it has, so I guess leaving it at Rock is good for now. Sand Rush on Midday Lycanroc sounds pretty cool. I think it's guaranteed that Speed will be its defining stat at this point. Vital Spirit on the Midnight Form is good too, but I'm not sure which stat will it focus on more.

Loving the trainer customization updates. Huge improvement from X/Y. What really makes me excited is that your character can wear glasses now!

Pokemon Refresh looks like a highly improved Pokemon Amie. I like how you can cure status conditions by grooming your Pokemon now.

I can already tell Ash's Pikachu will gain access to that special Z-move some point in the anime. Eve's Z-move is interesting in that it's the first one that doesn't attack the opponent. Those stat boosts look pretty nice. The eyes on each of the Eeveelutions during the attack looks rather off though, but I guess that's just me.

Looking forward to more news on October 4!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm finding that Lycanroc's Midday Form will probably be the superior choice, thanks to Sand Rush being an ability option for it. Set up a Sandstorm, and it would not only get a 1.5x special defense boost, but its speed would be doubled.

As for Passimian, its Receiver ability could prove to be quite an interesting ability to utilize in a double battle or triple battle; if its teammate has an ability such as Huge Power, Passimian could potentially acquire it if the teammate falls in battle. Just don't pair Passimian with anything that has Truant, Slow Start, or Defeatist.

Oranguru could also prove to be a neat Pokemon to use in a double battle or triple battle, since with Telepathy, it can't be harmed by its own teammate's multi-target attacks. And as for Instruct, that could prove to be handy for any teammates who have speed problems, though the move might have problems being used effectively if Oranguru's speed isn't very good.

 

[Murlough]

The issue with Passimian is that everyone will know what its ability is.

Either the opponent will get rid of Passimian first or will be unthreatened by the ability Passimian would recieve. Unless explosion shenanigans become a thing but I doubt that would be a common strategy.

Basically there is easy counterplay to that kind of ability.

 

[Z25]

The issue with Passimian is that everyone will know what its ability is.

Either the opponent will get rid of Passimian first or will be unthreatened by the ability Passimian would recieve. Unless explosion shenanigans become a thing but I doubt that would be a common strategy.

Basically there is easy counterplay to that kind of ability.

You'd also know what oranguru has as well. As people will know that telepathy will be the go to ability for it.

There's still going to be ways people will be creative with this ability. We'll just have to wait and see how it will be used and affect the meta.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The issue with Passimian is that everyone will know what its ability is.

Either the opponent will get rid of Passimian first or will be unthreatened by the ability Passimian would recieve. Unless explosion shenanigans become a thing but I doubt that would be a common strategy.

Basically there is easy counterplay to that kind of ability.

I do know that Receiver will probably be restricted, much like with Defiant and Competitive. Defiant and Competitive would only activate if the Pokemon's stats were lowered by the opponent, so self-inflicted stat drops, and stat drops caused by teammates won't do anything.

If anything, Receiver will probably only activate if the teammate got KO'd by an "opposing" Pokemon.

 

[DJ3DS]

I do know that Receiver will probably be restricted, much like with Defiant and Competitive. Defiant and Competitive would only activate if the Pokemon's stats were lowered by the opponent, so self-inflicted stat drops, and stat drops caused by teammates won't do anything.

If anything, Receiver will probably only activate if the teammate got KO'd by an "opposing" Pokemon.

Both Defiant and Competitive are much more useful due to the prevalence of Intimidate (doubles in particular) and Defog (singles).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Both Defiant and Competitive are much more useful due to the prevalence of Intimidate (doubles in particular) and Defog (singles).

Still, I'm just saying that to keep Receiver from being abused, it'll probably be set so that it will not activate unless the teammate gets KO'd by an opposing Pokemon.

 

[Aetheri]

Still, I'm just saying that to keep Receiver from being abused, it'll probably be set so that it will not activate unless the teammate gets KO'd by an opposing Pokemon.

I thought that was rather clear that's how it activates...

 

[MajinBuu272]

More on the 4th!!
#HypeTrain

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I thought that was rather clear that's how it activates...

Allows the Pokémon to inherit the ability of an ally when the ally faints.

The description doesn't mention that the ally has to be KO'd by an "opposing" Pokemon.

 

[Murlough]

More on the 4th!!
#HypeTrain

Please for the love of all that is both pocket and moster please let starter evos be revealed.

Please...

 

[Aetheri]

I posted this in the Nintenzone but I figured I'd post it here also, just to see if I get some more opinions regarding it...

some speculatory food for thought regarding the starters and their evolutions...

Spoiler

Some things to note about the starters...they all have some humanoid hybrid qualities...and while a lot of starters do have such qualities, it's interesting to note that each one may be based off of a particular Cryptid, similarly to Lycanroc...

Rowlet being the Owlman, Litten being the Weretiger, and Popplio being the Mermaid....

The Owlman is a legend that is similar to the Mothman, that originated in England in town of Mawnan in the county of Cornwall...In addition to their description of being a human-owl hybrid they are often described as having red eyes being a very prominent characteristic...it does appear that Rowlet's evolution indeed has red eyes also...

Weretigers are an actual legend, similar to werewolves, except well, tigers...The legend originated in India, that speak of creatures that are half-human and half-tiger...Some legends in southeast Asia speak of different tribes of people actually having the true form of animals, while Tibetans and natives of Yunnan, the Na-hsi took on the form of Tigers...

And I'm sure most of you are aware of Mermaids...but one interesting tidbit is that it is believed that the legend of Mermaids were inspired by the accounts of (more than likely drunk) sailors upon discovering these of all creatures...

Spoiler: I really hope they were drunk

I mean that does not look like a beautiful sea maiden

Although there are accounts of mermaid like beings in other Ancient mythologies including Greek...Sirens, while not necessarily the same as mermaids, are sometimes described to have a similar appearance as mermaids being a maiden with a fish's tail...

With all that said...I wonder if this holds more weight to the idea of the starters getting two forms for their final stages, since they have a secret in common with Rockruff and since Lycanroc is also based off of a Cryptid, as well as having a second form based off of the actual animal...
Regardless as time went on I have warmed up to the starters evolutions quite a bit more...Even Litten's, while I'm not a fan of the whole 'wrestler' motif I have to admit that it still has a pretty cool design...Will definitely be more appeasing if it does end up being a Dark type as well...Not necessarily because "ermagerd not anudder fire/fighting," but I just like Dark a lot more..

 

[Z25]

I posted this in the Nintenzone but I figured I'd post it here also, just to see if I get some more opinions regarding it...

This is a pretty well thought out theory! I like, it good job.

Cryptids being the base for these 3, and maybe 3 more if there are other forms, would be pretty awesome. The potential themes for sun and moon are looking good. Hope some of them come to light.

 

[Murlough]

I've been thinking the same thing.

I hope this means a quadraped tiger instead of JUST Mr. Fire/Fighting number 4. The siren and archer I have no issues with.

 

[MajinBuu272]

I've been thinking the same thing.

I hope this means a quadraped tiger instead of Mr. Fire/Fighting number 4. The siren and archer I have no issues with.

Please dont let litten evolve into fire/fighting

 

[Z25]

Watch Litten have a Fire Dark evolution and fire Fighting one.

Then they only reveal the fighting one.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Watch Litten have a Fire Dark evolution and fire Fighting one.

Then they only reveal the fighting one.

Nah, they reveal both at the same time... and both are Fire/Fighting types.

 

[Z25]

Nah, they reveal both at the same time... and both are Fire/Fighting types.

In fact, rowlett's and Poplio''s are also fire fighting lol.