Diddy Kong
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I actually think the match goes about 50-50 if Mewtwo can kill Luma effectively.
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If Mewtwo has to be the second lightest character in the same because of "the ways he can kill" instead of his body size and type like everyone else in the game, then Captain Falcon should be lighter than Jigglypuff and able to be killed at 50%.Why do people always turn to official Pokedex descriptions (which can be pretty wack themselves... did you know Joltik
is small enough to fit in your hand?) to complain about Mewtwo's weight? Nobody does that with Charizard who should
supposedly be lighter, but he gets a pass because heavy=good. Weight in this game can be compared to stamina
in other fighters, and Mewtwo has little of it because of the multitude of ways he can kill. Powerful smashes (including a dsmash
unpunishable on shield, and a frame 5 Usmash with good reach), two killing throws, killing projectile, reflector,
deadly edgeguarding, having a swift and powerful shadow claw (also potent as an air punish), strong spike, nair that
can drag people to their doom, and bair that can sometimes Wall of Pain, and he can go really deep to do it on top of all
that. With how lethal Mewtwo can be if played well, it's only fair that he goes down pretty quickly if he's hit himself.
At least, that's how I see it now.
Falcon's weight and falling speed make him open to even bigger combos than Mewtwo (heck, it's not tooIf Mewtwo has to be the second lightest character in the same because of "the ways he can kill" instead of his body size and type like everyone else in the game, then Captain Falcon should be lighter than Jigglypuff and able to be killed at 50%.
I think his worst matchups are all of the rushdown characters like ZSS, Diddy, etc. However, he can go against the other characters to a pretty decent degree. Just don't try to rush in on characters with Mewtwo though. =P
Yeah I should have thought about the heavyweights. But yeah Mewtwo does have several ways to space and mix up in this game. Much better than he was in Melee.Occasionally rushing is fine except against heavies. You don't want to make a habit of it, but M2 can certainly mix up how he applies pressure against most of the cast.
Mmm, sorry, but no, I think Villager has the advantage at high level. You might not want to reflect too much, we can pocket it all back. We'll especially be baiting a reflect if we're planting a tree.I think one of the few matchups in our favor is against Villager. This is primarily because of Confusion being so good and Villager's projectiles being so slow. When I say projectiles, I don't just mean Lloyd Rocket. I'm also talking about Timber, side smash, and Fair.
In my experience, when playing against people around my skill level, Villager feels easy. Is this the general consensus?
Well to be fair you're making it seem harder than it is.Mmm, sorry, but no, I think Villager has the advantage at high level. You might not want to reflect too much, we can pocket it all back. We'll especially be baiting a reflect if we're planting a tree.
And Villagers just send gyroids to keep you busy so while you're busy reflecting Villagers should punish. And fair is not that slow, Mewtwo struggles being so tall against that too, and with his laggy double jump.
Plus a pocketed fully charged shadow ball will kill quite early or definitely break shields.
Villager can pester Mewtwo from afar, forcing him to be the one to approach, pocket so many powerful things, and avoid most slow combos with nair.
Even disable is pocketable! I think at the very least it's 45:55 in Mewtwo's favor. A slight disadvantage. It's by no means an impossible fight, but Villager just has much better tools. Mewtwo will have to be tricky and smart. Very careful with the reflect. Reflecting a pocketed shadow ball could do the trick if Villager isn't expecting it: again. Villager has the advantage, Mewtwo has to be smart.
Well sure, at high level play Mewtwo's should expect Villager's to pocket those, but the original poster was fighting a lil inexperienced Villager so, thought it was worth mentioning.Well to be fair you're making it seem harder than it is.
Lloyd Rocket is slow, there's a certain timing for Confusion where you can both reflect and have enough time to avoid or punish Villager's approach, unless the rocket is so far away that Villager can catch up to it, but at that point Mewtwo could move slightly backwarda and avoid the rocket all together (or try challenging Villager in the air if he wants to).
Mewtwo will obviously not reflect a Tree, but he can easily reflect an F-Smash or the Growing Sprout. Villager's ground game is sort of outclassed by Mewtwo's tilts. In the air Villager's F-Air and B-Air might be annoying specially because of Mewtwo's height but I still haven't been completely walled out by a Villager using them, they can also be reflected if used predictably.
I can't claim to know the matchup or how easy or hard it is, but honestly I've never played a Villager who has even made me sweat, of course I've never played a Villager that's close to my level yet either. If you're a decent Villager we could try playing some games and seeing how that goes.
I didn't think ya were, don't worry bout that! I just think Villager has the advantage. And yes, we can pocket our tree back, like all our projectiles, which is why I'm not very threatened by the reflector. If we're chopping down that tree it's because we want you to reflect it so we can pocket it or we're feeling lucky I guess.Sorry, I was by no means implying that the matchup was completely one-sided. I meant to say that Mewtwo had only a slight advantage, but an advantage nonetheless.
I don't think there's enough time for you to punish a baited Confusion with anything other than dash attack. (Villager's dash attack can also be reflected, by the way.)
Also, how come you guys think it's a bad idea to use Confusion on Timber? I don't know how that would usually play out in high level play (and I'd like your input on that) but I feel like it's somewhat safe. Confusion is active for a lot of frames and it has great range. This means that you can use it a little bit early and you can space it so that you're not close enough to get hit by the actual Timber. I do know that villager can pocket it, but after it's been reflected once the Timber just moves so damn slow that you can only be hit by it if you're caught by surprise. At this point, I guess it is risky since whoever gets hit loses their stock or their shield.
Actually, Lloyd Rockets baits are normally punished with an aerial, ANY aerial if Mewtwo Confuses the Rocket as it reaches him. However if Mewtwo is close or mid range he can start the confusion way before the Rocket reaches him (Confusion has a lot of active reflect frames), allowing him to reflect AND act out of the reflect fast enough to avoid any punishment. If Villager is close enough to punish your "correctly-timed" Confusion then that means that he had ample time to catch up to the rocket which means you were a little farther away than mid range and by that point your best option is probably something else that isn't reflecting (unless you see the Villager coming in for a dash attack or something).Sorry, I was by no means implying that the matchup was completely one-sided. I meant to say that Mewtwo had only a slight advantage, but an advantage nonetheless.
I don't think there's enough time for you to punish a baited Confusion with anything other than dash attack. (Villager's dash attack can also be reflected, by the way.)
Also, how come you guys think it's a bad idea to use Confusion on Timber? I don't know how that would usually play out in high level play (and I'd like your input on that) but I feel like it's somewhat safe. Confusion is active for a lot of frames and it has great range. This means that you can use it a little bit early and you can space it so that you're not close enough to get hit by the actual Timber. I do know that villager can pocket it, but after it's been reflected once the Timber just moves so damn slow that you can only be hit by it if you're caught by surprise. At this point, I guess it is risky since whoever gets hit loses their stock or their shield.
I won't be able to play you today, but I'll add you. Add me and we can play some games tomorrow. I don't think I am the best Mewtwo out there considering I only have a little less than 2 weeks using him (since I wasn't able to play for close to 3 weeks after he was released), but I consider myself quite decent at using him.Well sure, at high level play Mewtwo's should expect Villager's to pocket those, but the original poster was fighting a lil inexperienced Villager so, thought it was worth mentioning.
Some of the things you're saying...yeees, but Villager shouldn't be any closer than mid-range until he gets a hit, so the tail isn't so worrisome.
In any case, I'd love some matches to understand the MU better. I worry I've only fought inexperienced Mewtwo's who kept feeding me shadow balls.
I still think Ganon is an easy fight for Mewtwo though.I've tried and tried but I feel like I can't get past Mewtwo's weight and size.
He's just too damn light.
It is absolutely ridiculous that he is the second lightest character in the game. Not only does it not make sense for his character, but it's completely unjustifiable for him to be that light and vulnerable, even competitivelycompetitively (no, being strong doesn't mean hinder him to that degree. He basically has the Little Mac thing going on, except he doesn't have the super armor to use his awesome offense as a defense).
I can't get by it. I may have lost my 17th consecutive against Ganon (part of a larger losing slump where I've been losing to him consistently over the course of the week), and I can't do it anymore. No matter how well you do, it seems like one **** up and you're done, unapologetically.
I wanted to make Mewtwo my secondary but he just is too weak defensively to hold that position. At best, I feel like I can use him as a counterpick against people like Megaman.
I'm so frustrated. I've been playing with him nonstop and I can't even feel myself getting any better with him.
I don't see it. He's so extra powerful, just one combo and you're in critical condition. You can't make mistakes against that character.I still think Ganon is an easy fight for Mewtwo though.
I look at it this way. If mewtwo was heavier, say mario weight. He might survive like 20% longer on average per stock?I've tried and tried but I feel like I can't get past Mewtwo's weight and size.
He's just too damn light.
It is absolutely ridiculous that he is the second lightest character in the game. Not only does it not make sense for his character, but it's completely unjustifiable for him to be that light and vulnerable, even competitivelycompetitively (no, being strong doesn't mean hinder him to that degree. He basically has the Little Mac thing going on, except he doesn't have the super armor to use his awesome offense as a defense).
I can't get by it. I may have lost my 17th consecutive against Ganon (part of a larger losing slump where I've been losing to him consistently over the course of the week), and I can't do it anymore. No matter how well you do, it seems like one **** up and you're done, unapologetically.
I wanted to make Mewtwo my secondary but he just is too weak defensively to hold that position. At best, I feel like I can use him as a counterpick against people like Megaman.
I'm so frustrated. I've been playing with him nonstop and I can't even feel myself getting any better with him.
It sounds like you're just being punished for overcommiting. Also getting spiked by Ganon means you're doing something horribly wrong, specially as Mewtwo. If you get punished trying to complete a string then don't try it again under the same circumstances, you're obviously going to be punished again.I don't see it. He's so extra powerful, just one combo and you're in critical condition. You can't make mistakes against that character.
How often have I been spiked to hell or air Ganon punched across the screen when I'm simply trying to follow up on a combo or string together some type of damage? You damn near have to hit and run and you can't do that with a guy who can get beat all game and still win off of one mental error.
The Ganondorf I play ruthlessly outmatches my Mewtwo consistently. It's become so one sided now that I don't even learn anything from my losses.
If Ganondorf is regularly hitting you with Warlock Punch, that is a problem with you man.I don't see it. He's so extra powerful, just one combo and you're in critical condition. You can't make mistakes against that character.
How often have I been spiked to hell or air Ganon punched across the screen when I'm simply trying to follow up on a combo or string together some type of damage? You damn near have to hit and run and you can't do that with a guy who can get beat all game and still win off of one mental error.
The Ganondorf I play ruthlessly outmatches my Mewtwo consistently. It's become so one sided now that I don't even learn anything from my losses.
His forward air punch, usually under the circumstance of me trying to beat him out with a Shadow Claw after launching him in the air.If Ganondorf is regularly hitting you with Warlock Punch, that is a problem with you man.
I feel like I play very defensively, especially since I don't feel like I have an opportunity to mess up and survive. I always try to get a lot of space between me and him and use tilts and the more I think about it, the more I feel like my game in general revolves around punishing. I don't feel like I can be aggressive Mewtwo unless I'm playing a character who relies heavily on projectiles.It sounds like you're just being punished for overcommiting. Also getting spiked by Ganon means you're doing something horribly wrong, specially as Mewtwo. If you get punished trying to complete a string then don't try it again under the same circumstances, you're obviously going to be punished again.
What I am saying is that this Ganon player would probably beat you with any other character anyways, it isn't the matchup, it's the skill gap.
His forward air punch, usually under the circumstance of me trying to beat him out with a Shadow Claw after launching him in the air.
I feel like I play very defensively, especially since I don't feel like I have an opportunity to mess up and survive. I always try to get a lot of space between me and him and use tilts and the more I think about it, the more I feel like my game in general revolves around punishing. I don't feel like I can be aggressive Mewtwo unless I'm playing a character who relies heavily on projectiles.
I play this dude every day, his Ganon only consistently beats my Mewtwo. And it's because at 60%, I'm literally always flying through the air until I'm KO'd.
EXACTLY my point in my postMewtwo feels, in some aspects, like the development team rushed his hitboxes and overcompensated when deciding his weight. I could definitely be wrong, and a lack of changes wouldn't lead me to changing characters, but I think Mewtwo is deserving of some basic tweaking.
In the end, I'm just glad we have him at all! :3
I got some good feedback on Rosa I will be writting up later on today but there are 2 things wrong here.Rosalina with customs feels very uphill. Her hitboxes beat all of ours, she absorbs Shadow Ball for free, and she has a great harassment projectile that we cannot meaningfully reflect back at her. She KOs earlier than we do, too.
Approaching her with aerials is dangerous; Dtilt on Luna seems like the best bet. Nair is a pretty good option since you snag Rosalina and Luma. Disable and Confusion are dangerous because Luma is still free.
I don't know the Mario matchup as well.
The range I am talking about is about half of SmashVille (maybe even a little more), it isn't as close as it may sound.As a Rosalina main, I'd like to say a few things about shadow ball and gravitational pull:
Most decent Rosalinas will not gravity at a close distance. They are aware that it has some cooldown, so it will mostly be used to stop mewtwo from forcing Rosalina to approach. With Luma, a close range small shadow ball becomes very unsafe as Rosalina can just run up and dash attack while Luma blocks the shadow ball.
I see the matchup as slightly favoring Rosalina and Luma (-1) because:
-uncharged shadow balls are practically useless when Luma is around
-Rosalina's juggling > Mewtwo's juggling
-Mewtwo's kill moves > Rosalina's kill moves
-Both can zone well, but Rosalina and Luma have slightly better range and priority
I can't say I've experienced horror stories of Luma interrupting confusion, but I do know that for regular grabs
Luma can't attack until Rosalina is released (he panics). Mewtwo even has dthrow to smack Luma with if he does get one.
Yes Disable doesn't pierce so Luma can tank it, however Mewtwo can just short hop to hit the tall Rosalina in the face
so it's not a perfect defence. What IS a problem is that Luma indeed can freely attack when Rosa is stunned, so you'll
likely be punished when you do land it unless spaced perfectly.
Now, I've just tried Confusion on a level 9 CPU in training, and whenever she had Luma by her side he floated up with
her, so I don't see how he can interrupt it in the middle unless he's separate but nearby. And as for hitting Mewtwo afterwards,
business as usual; just shield and punish.
Wouldn't reflecting a shooting star bit at least take a small chunk of Luma's health? Or does it not reach when
reflected at a comfortable distance?
Yeah, there's some knockback growth attached to how much percent Luma has tacked on it. After doing a bit of training mode, down tilt seems to be the way to start any Luma killing pattern. The tipper won't send Luma into tumble until 10% or so, but the sweetspot closer to Mewtwo will always send it up, and put it into a favorable position to finish it off with some other hit.The shooting star bit does around 5% damage. I understand that Mewtwo can only reliably reflect it from far
away but it's far from a waste of time to do so.
Also, doesn't Luma become easier to launch the more it's hurt?
Are you sure the custom one does 5% damage, I thought it did much less to "balance" the fact that it's faster and has longer range. What's the tradeoff for choosing this custom then?The shooting star bit does around 5% damage. I understand that Mewtwo can only reliably reflect it from far
away but it's far from a waste of time to do so.
Also, doesn't Luma become easier to launch the more it's hurt?
Either go into training mode, or a versus match and test it for yourself. There is definitely knockback growth on Luma.Are you sure the custom one does 5% damage, I thought it did much less to "balance" the fact that it's faster and has longer range. What's the tradeoff for choosing this custom then?
Also I am fairly certain Luma doesn't get launched easier on more damage. Every attack launches her a set distance and that's it. It's why you have attacks like Falcon's F-Tilt send her flying away across the stage even at 0%. At least that's what I think.
That's interesting to know. Is there any way to tell how much damage Luma currently has?Either go into training mode, or a versus match and test it for yourself. There is definitely knockback growth on Luma.
For instance, at 0% Luma won't be sent into tumble from an uncharged Mewtwo forward smash, but after one or two hits, it'll be sent a short distance away, and then further as it tacks on more damage.