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Points of clarification about Casual Vs. Competitive that everyone needs to read(WOP)

Air Marshall Fiddy Cent

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chyea mayn dis discussion is whack yo. i go to southern CA tournies all the time an usually get in tha top 40% (i aint sayin im great or anythang) an i still treat my homies who play against fo fun wit respect. what the deal?
 

Mike G

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wha?! 100 mm?!

Sliq, I accept ur challenge. I'm a skilled casual smasher that playes items on. Beamswords, mr saturns and bombs are my faves...

Im a beast at FFAs with mewtwo so this will be cake =]
 

Sliq

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Sliq, I accept ur challenge. I'm a skilled casual smasher that playes items on. Beamswords, mr saturns and bombs are my faves...

Im a beast at FFAs with mewtwo so this will be cake =]
T_T

Look at Mike G. trying to trick me.
 

Kashakunaki

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SSBM in tournaments is usually played without items. The game itself was originally intended by Our Lord God Sakurai Himself to be played with items, if not; originally they would not have been there.
WRONG! Sorry, but I had to get this out here. If Sakurai intended the game to be played with items and only items, he wouldn't have given us an option to turn them off, now would he? It's our decision whether we WANT to or NOT, and it has been therefore the DECISION of the COMPETITIVE, let me say it once more for emphasis, COMPETITIVE scene to play without them. Why? Who gives a ****! I'm not gonna explain it because it is irrelevant. It was their choice as a community and it isn't stopping you from playing with them.

'Nuff said about that.
 

Smooth Criminal

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WRONG! Sorry, but I had to get this out here. If Sakurai intended the game to be played with items and only items, he wouldn't have given us an option to turn them off, now would he? It's our decision whether we WANT to or NOT, and it has been therefore the DECISION of the COMPETITIVE, let me say it once more for emphasis, COMPETITIVE scene to play without them. Why? Who gives a ****! I'm not gonna explain it because it is irrelevant. It was their choice as a community and it isn't stopping you from playing with them.

'Nuff said about that.
QFT.

Now, can mods please close this thread?

Smooth Criminal
 

Elec Man EXE

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Why is this thread here... it has absolutely nothing to do with Brawl. Whatsoever. There is no "competetive" in Brawl yet. Not to mention there's no wavedashing.

Threads that actually relate to Brawl, but are in the wrong section (EG Dojo Update posts) get closed immedietly. Why is this, a thread with practically zero Brawl relevence, still open...
 

Micahc

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Holy shiznit this thread moves fast. Anyway... chances are people will just turn off Items in Brawl simply because we're not accustomed to playing with them on in Melee.
 

Mike G

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T_T

Look at Mike G. trying to trick me.

LOL sliq, you know that huge amonts of money put down like that would attract players from the the tournament threads like me :)

but you are right, I havent met a causual that gave me any challenge in this game since I myself was one before I crossed the line to competitive.

casuals should also cross that line instead of yelling and trying to be heard from the other side.
 

Sliq

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LOL sliq, you know that huge amonts of money put down like that would attract players from the the tournament threads like me :)

but you are right, I havent met a causual that gave me any challenge in this game since I myself was one before I crossed the line to competitive.

casuals should also cross that line instead of yelling and trying to be heard from the other side.
I'll still MM you, just not for 100$. ;>_>
 

slikvik

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Before I became a competitive player, I went to my first tournament in Maryland. Although I didnt know at the time, alot of "pros" showed up to this tournament. The player I teamed with was also casual(and still is). We did remarkably well in teams(7th place), outplacing some well known players. I took out a decent competitive player. From that point, I decided to get better at the game and am now competitive

Here are the full results if anyone cares
http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2220641&postcount=1

I figured I'd support the casuals for once. I see alot of casuals say that they have attended "good" tournaments and did well but never show any proof.

edit: Also at the time I knew what advanced techniques were but did not use them
 

Uchiharakiri

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WRONG! Sorry, but I had to get this out here. If Sakurai intended the game to be played with items and only items, he wouldn't have given us an option to turn them off, now would he? It's our decision whether we WANT to or NOT, and it has been therefore the DECISION of the COMPETITIVE, let me say it once more for emphasis, COMPETITIVE scene to play without them. Why? Who gives a ****! I'm not gonna explain it because it is irrelevant. It was their choice as a community and it isn't stopping you from playing with them.

'Nuff said about that.
Even in the quote box you quoted me on, it proves something. I never did say " Sakurai intended the game to be played with only items." did I. Read a little more carefully next time please. Though I will admit on my part I probably should have added made it be "Sakurai originally intended the game to be played with OR without items and not just no items solely.", my bad, but still; you have a bad, too.
 

Uchiharakiri

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Why is this thread here... it has absolutely nothing to do with Brawl. Whatsoever. There is no "competetive" in Brawl yet. Not to mention there's no wavedashing.

Threads that actually relate to Brawl, but are in the wrong section (EG Dojo Update posts) get closed immedietly. Why is this, a thread with practically zero Brawl relevence, still open...
Beats me dude, I said the same thing lonnng way ago.
 

nuro

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This is ********.

You guys are making this into "Smash Boards Politics," Just play the game and stop discussing stuff that doesn't make bit of difference guys (Picollo reference).

Questioning what is a glitch and what isn't is the same type of question like "What came first the chicken or the egg?" They are never ending, never knowing, and never having any real importance.

If noobs don't like tournaments they shouldn't go! It's that simple there should be no *****ing.

The creators gave us options so we can use them however we want. Who gives a **** if they intended us to play a certain way. By this logic we should all be playing on 2 minutes instead of stocks because it is 2 minutes by default.

In the end you need to realize this game is going to be played like its going to be played with or without these vapid Smashboards Politics.
 

MookieRah

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Omfg It's Michael Gordon!!!!!!

LOL sliq, you know that huge amonts of money put down like that would attract players from the the tournament threads like me

but you are right, I havent met a causual that gave me any challenge in this game since I myself was one before I crossed the line to competitive.

casuals should also cross that line instead of yelling and trying to be heard from the other side.
MikeG noticed that this thread was crouch canceling, and came in to deliver a dress that shattered the world.

You are my hero mangz.
 

Uchiharakiri

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LOL sliq, you know that huge amonts of money put down like that would attract players from the the tournament threads like me :)

but you are right, I havent met a causual that gave me any challenge in this game since I myself was one before I crossed the line to competitive.

casuals should also cross that line instead of yelling and trying to be heard from the other side.
MikeG noticed that this thread was crouch canceling, and came in to deliver a dress that shattered the world.

You are my hero mangz.
...

Before I became a competitive player, I went to my first tournament in Maryland. Although I didnt know at the time, alot of "pros" showed up to this tournament. The player I teamed with was also casual(and still is). We did remarkably well in teams(7th place), outplacing some well known players. I took out a decent competitive player. From that point, I decided to get better at the game and am now competitive

]Here are the full results if anyone cares
http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2220641&postcount=1

I figured I'd support the casuals for once. I see alot of casuals say that they have attended "good" tournaments and did well but never show any proof.

edit: Also at the time I knew what advanced techniques were but did not use them
Only way you could discredit that is to say everyone beneath him (who were probably likely using AT's), simply just sucked at Melee. In which case, if you do, it can be then said that even with AT's, if someone else sucks less than you even if they're casual, they can still beat you. If you disagree with the previous sentence however, it can be easily said that AT's then do not entirely decide wether someone is "sucky" or not. Slivik had crossed the line being casual, if not at the very least treaded past it even slightly.
 

MookieRah

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If you knew how awesome Mike G was you would have put more than a mere elipsis :-P. I'm not just saying that because he was one of the most influential Peach players worldwide, he also happens to be one of the nicest most laid back human being on the planet.

Also, he said what he meant without adding any sting to it. I know that you and others may read that as him bragging or boasting, but the fact is he isn't trying to say that at all, he is merely pointing out that he, in his LONG LONG time on the scene hasn't come across a casual player that gave him a challenge.
 

MookieRah

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How important shffling is depends on the character you play. You can excel with certain characters without it
It still stands that if you can't shffl then you aren't very good. I say that because shffl'ing is rather simple, and if you are going that far out of your way to avoid learning how to learn that I can't imagine someone getting that great. It also goes without saying that it limits your character choices.
 

Sliq

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Only way you could discredit that is to say everyone beneath him (who were probably likely using AT's), simply just sucked at Melee. In which case, if you do, it can be then said that even with AT's, if someone else sucks less than you even if they're casual, they can still beat you. If you disagree with the previous sentence however, it can be easily said that AT's then do not entirely decide wether someone is "sucky" or not. Slivik had crossed the line being casual, if not at the very least treaded past it even slightly.
Actually, he can be discredited if the tournament was a bracket, and if the bracket was seeded retardedly. If the all of the best teams were on one side of the bracket, and he was on the other, that could account for their placement, because all of the better veterans would be busy knocking each other out while him and his partner played weaker opponents.

I'm not saying that is what happened, but without actually seeing the bracket, it is hard to say. Speaking of which, I should really check to see if that tournament had a bracket posted. O_O

Edit: There is no bracket there. I'm not dissing slikvik, btw, just showing that placement can be influenced easily by odd bracketing and such.
 

Uchiharakiri

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If you knew how awesome Mike G was you would have put more than a mere elipsis :-P. I'm not just saying that because he was one of the most influential Peach players worldwide, he also happens to be one of the nicest most laid back human being on the planet.

Also, he said what he meant without adding any sting to it. I know that you and others may read that as him bragging or boasting, but the fact is he isn't trying to say that at all, he is merely pointing out that he, in his LONG LONG time on the scene hasn't come across a casual player that gave him a challenge.
Fair enough, you're not slacking in that area too much either.

Actually, he can be discredited if the tournament was a bracket, and if the bracket was seeded retardedly. If the all of the best teams were on one side of the bracket, and he was on the other, that could account for their placement, because all of the better veterans would be busy knocking each other out while him and his partner played weaker opponents.

I'm not saying that is what happened, but without actually seeing the bracket, it is hard to say. Speaking of which, I should really check to see if that tournament had a bracket posted. O_O
Fair enough too, neither of us can really know, regardless I stand by my last statement in by doing so I mean that I think that at the least it was an okay argument.

Edit: "There is no bracket there. I'm not dissing slikvik, btw, just showing that placement can be influenced easily by odd bracketing and such."

Yes, quite, but there is no arguing that there indeed is evidence on his part.

Needless to say, I have to go to sleep right now because I'm rly rly feeling lame physically, peeces.
 

Wight

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I liked what you said at first, but then you got so opinionated and cocky that now, i wouldn't think closing this would unjustified.
 

MookieRah

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Edit: There is no bracket there. I'm not dissing slikvik, btw, just showing that placement can be influenced easily by odd bracketing and such.
I can attest to this happening quite often actually. I don't know how many times I run into the top players of tournaments early on and get tossed into loser's bracket, just to slaughter some random dude 3 rounds in. I have no idea how that dude managed to get that far AT ALL. It actually happened at the most recent tournament I attended.

Also, teams don't usually go round robin, and all the other methods of seeding things properly. Because of this such randomly good placements can occur. At INNsomnia 3 (I think it was the 3rd one, but it was the one where Mike and Bluchu teamed, he would remember this too) I teamed with Theif, a Tuscaloosa smasher, and our team was pretty **** good. We had some friendlies with Mike and Bluchu and did amazingly well. I think we only got placed somewhere in the middle, because we were put out by Darkrain's team, and a team composed of my crewmates JC and Scrib. The final placements were Mike G's team placing first, JC and Scrib taking second (yes, they beat darkrain's team, it was quite epic), and Darkrain and his partner taking 3rd.
 

BananaNut

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You can't be good and not shffl. Everything else argue about all you want. Shffling is a necessity.

When I fist played a competitive player, I didn't know how to shffl, although I did know how to L cancel. I was Doc and He was Falco.

I acctually killed him before he killed me (on the fist stock), and it was a very close match.

Now I'm not saying Shffling is not important, but the defenition of good is debatable.
 

AlphaZealot

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Look at Pound 2 from the summer. 200 people.
ChuDat, in getting to the winners finals, had to beat: Mew2King, Forward, PC Chris, Aho (who he has a losing record against on the local scene), and a few other people. Jaino had to beat...Chillin. Jaino ended up getting third, losing to Mew2king and ChUDat. Basicly, the four best players at the tournament were all in one half of the bracket, and as a result things were pretty screwy.
 

Cless

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Yeah, but was he a seasoned competitive player? I can say I'm a competitive player all I want, but I'm inexperienced. Doesn't matter how good I am or aren't with tech skills, I'm still inexperienced.
 

BananaNut

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@Cless

Acctually he was, he showed me why certian stages were baned, and taught me more techs, and pretty much inspired me to take the game to a new level. Before that I didn't know Doc's down B could be used for recovery. He's played in some tourneys and even won one (I think, I'm not sure.).
 

Sliq

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Look at Pound 2 from the summer. 200 people.
ChuDat, in getting to the winners finals, had to beat: Mew2King, Forward, PC Chris, Aho (who he has a losing record against on the local scene), and a few other people. Jaino had to beat...Chillin. Jaino ended up getting third, losing to Mew2king and ChUDat. Basicly, the four best players at the tournament were all in one half of the bracket, and as a result things were pretty screwy.
I haven't really ever had a murder bracket or a bracket that was overly easy, but I know people have.

I don't care so much about players as much as I do about their character selection (i.e. I love fighting Cpt. Falcon and Marth, but hate fighting certain other characters which will go unmentioned).

So my favorite bracket ever would be like fighting Jiano, Darkrain, and G-Reg.
 

slikvik

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Actually, he can be discredited if the tournament was a bracket, and if the bracket was seeded retardedly. If the all of the best teams were on one side of the bracket, and he was on the other, that could account for their placement, because all of the better veterans would be busy knocking each other out while him and his partner played weaker opponents.

I'm not saying that is what happened, but without actually seeing the bracket, it is hard to say. Speaking of which, I should really check to see if that tournament had a bracket posted. O_O

Edit: There is no bracket there. I'm not dissing slikvik, btw, just showing that placement can be influenced easily by odd bracketing and such.
Well, you're right about that. In singles I took out FOB, a decent doc main(i think he has some vids on youtube if you doubt his skill level). It was definitely an upset. I really wish the guy posted brackets because I cant even remember all the teams we played. It was such an epic tournament looking at who showed up. I probably had an easier bracket than most though looking at the results. For what its worth, TA seeded the bracket(pretty sure it was g-reg or plank). I doubt they would seed terribly.
 

MookieRah

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Acctually he was, he showed me why certian stages were baned, and taught me more techs, and pretty much inspired me to take the game to a new level.
There is a HUGE variety in skill with competitive people. My guess is that he wasn't that great by competitive standards. Do you remember what he went by?
 

Sliq

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Well, you're right about that. In singles I took out FOB, a decent doc main. I really wish the guy posted brackets because I cant even remember all the teams we played. It was such an epic tournament looking at who showed up. I probably had an easier bracket than most though looking at the results. For what its worth, TA seeded the bracket(pretty sure it was g-reg or plank). I doubt they would seed terribly.
It depends on if they seeded it, or like had RR first, because someone good can just play like an idiot and take like 3rd seed when they could easily get 1st seed, messing up the brackets.

Chillindude did stupid crap in his pools at Pound 2. I got first seed, and he got like 2nd or 3rd seed or something. Needless to say, I played him SECOND round, and was not pleased.
 

slikvik

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**** MD/VA. I have no region. no really...
It depends on if they seeded it, or like had RR first, because someone good can just play like an idiot and take like 3rd seed when they could easily get 1st seed, messing up the brackets.

Chillindude did stupid crap in his pools at Pound 2. I got first seed, and he got like 2nd or 3rd seed or something. Needless to say, I played him SECOND round, and was not pleased.
lol, chillin always messes around in pools
 

Sliq

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lol, chillin always messes around in pools
I know, he did it at FC too...I really hate that kind of thing because it can basically **** up an entire bracket.

Also, Mookie, corgi puppy is also pleased:

 

Cerulean_Charizard

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Erm, I'd never lost to my friends while playing SSBM (a bit unfair, as they'd never got a Gamecube for starters...), but after seeing this thread, I feel like a total n00b! I'd already known about the Pokemon competitive battling but I didn't know there was a metagame for SSB too. ^^'

I'd say people should just play the game how they want, and come to like, a comprimise between casual and competitive gamers? As for me, I'm a casual, but I respect the competitives for their skills and such. Meanwhile, I still can't finish Event matches on 1-player! >.<'
 
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