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Points of clarification about Casual Vs. Competitive that everyone needs to read(WOP)

autobzooty

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Hi guys, how's it going?
The thing is, I don't play to win. I play for fun. I think that this is where casuals and competitive players really disconnect from each others' thought processes.

For example, I don't think wavedashing is fun. Like I said, I think it ruins the spirit of the game. The spirit of the game takes priority over victory, to me. So yeah, you could beat me with wavedashing without much effort, probably. But I would rather play someone in a match with no wavedashing and lose than win by wavedashing.



You should realize that everywhere you go you are going to have to establish yourself. You should approach things with a bit of humility and be open to learning things. Also, while the world is bigger than smashboards, you won't find a better, more established site than smashboards for discussing the world of competitive smash.
I've found that humility is a bad approach in this community, and I don't need you to preach the facts of life to me. I don't take kindly being treated like that.

This is actually my second account. Not a lot of friendly faces around here, so I establish myself by fighting on the losing team. People around here seem pretty narrow minded and like to feed on each other's ideals and pat each other on the back.

Call me a disrupter, but there doesn't seem to be loads of people here to represent people like me.
 

Zankoku

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How is wavedashing not fun? : O

It's second only to wavelanding for fun things to do between stocks.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
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Umeå, Sweden
I've found that humility is a bad approach in this community. This is actually my second account. Not a lot of friendly faces around here, so I establish myself by fighting on the losing team. People around here seem pretty narrow minded and like to feed on each other's ideals and pat each other on the back.
Funny, how when I first signed up here I didn't post at all until I had read a lot. I realized I had no idea about how things worked, so I spent my time reading and learning everything I could. I didn't agree with everything, but I learned it. By the time I started posting I had a good feel for the community.

On the other end of the scale there are people that come here thinking they know everything to the competitive scene and discuss their proposed changes to us. You haven't done this in particular; however, this is just something that happens all the time.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
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There is a bigger world, sure, but Smashboards is the only place where people who are any good at the game congregate (except Joe Bushman staying at Gfaqs).


Face it, there is no way to tell who is the better overall smash player when looking accross the gap of pro vs casual.

THERE IS NO WAY, DON'T KID YOURSELF.

One will want items, one will not, one will want Final Destination, one will not. It's infuriated to see people claim and disclaim and claim and disclaim arguments that don't even matter in the first place.
Sorry buddy, time and time again we've run into people thinking they can compete so long as its by their rules (items, what have you). The competitive player STILL owns these types of people. It has nothing to do with stages or items, really, but the fundamental concept of getting your *** attacked. There is no way to get an item when you spend your entire life inside of one of Mew2Kings combos.

, it was an unintentional oversight on the developers' part and that's why I don't like to use it. It ruins the spirit of the game.
Say the original maker of soccer (European football) decided to make the ball in the shape of a, well American football (sorta oval in shape). Would you blame people for switching over to a spherical ball? Would you say that ruined the designers original spirit of the game? It is impossible for the designer to forsee everything that will occur in their game, and that happens to be part of the beauty of the entire video game industry.

I don't need to personally know each and every person that worked on the game to have a valid opinion here, so how about you stop trying to change my mind and accept that not everyone agrees with you. No amount of arguing is going to make either one of us more correct.
Valid opinions are gained through experience. Tell me, have you ever been to a tournament? How many people have you played against? Have you ever played against someone from a different county than you? How about a different state? How about a different COUNTRY? While I can't say for sure, I'm willing to venture a guess that you usually play with your small group of dedicated friends...and not much more. Go out and actually experiance what its like to play Smash against someone GOOD.

I don't judge by post count but by the content of your posts. Remember that you said "But understanding the way programming works isn't the key to understanding that it's a glitch. Any moron can tell that's a glitch just from looking at the move. Nintendo POLISHES their games, they're not going to purposely put in a fundamental action that looks like a glitch, feels like a glitch and, for the record, IS a glitch."

You said it with AUTHORITY, as if you were right. There is simply no evidence to support your "wavedashing is a glitch" theory because every point you could make about it could be applied to TONS of things within the game. You can't selectively apply your logic, if you apply it to one thing you need to apply it to EVERYTHING.

PS: I can't spell.

EDIT:
The thing is, I don't play to win. I play for fun. I think that this is where casuals and competitive players really disconnect from each others' thought processes.
I play for fun too. When I'm winning at something, I'm having fun. I don't honestly believe you would have fun if you played me. Not because of the tactics I would use, but because you would LOSE and I would also refuse to use more than one hand, meaning NO advanced tactics (IE level playing field). If your tellin me you would have fun playing one of your friends over and over without winning a single match, than more power to you, but for me, I like to compete, I like to win.
 

autobzooty

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Hi guys, how's it going?
I decide what the spirit of the game means to me, just like you can decide for your own self. To tell the truth, it doesn't really matter to me what the developers had in mind when the made the game. It's just what I've come to expect.

I don't play in tournaments because people wavedash. I play against CPUs because I'm homeschooled and don't have a great deal of people to play the game with. It's pretty pathetic, but it's true. All these things together help me define the spirit of the game, and no one can change my mind.



As far as the whole "wavedashing is a glitch" argument goes, I think we're all arguing based on our own definitions of what a glitch actually is. I say it's a glitch definitively because wavedashing meets my definition of a glitch to the letter. But if you asked me to verbalize my definition of a glitch, I probably couldn't because, A) The very idea of attempting that makes me weary, and B) It's more of an idea than it is a magic definition that will make everything clear to everyone.
 

EDreams

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Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
330
I don't play in tournaments because people wavedash. I play against CPUs because I'm homeschooled and don't have a great deal of people to play the game with. It's pretty pathetic, but it's true. All these things together help me define the spirit of the game, and no one can change my mind.
Then stop trying to change other people's minds already. If you admit yourself that you're debating with no experience or knowledge of the community or competitive play, then don't debate it at all.

You don't decide what they think is the "spirit of the game" for them either.
 

autobzooty

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Hi guys, how's it going?
Funny, how when I first signed up here I didn't post at all until I had read a lot. I realized I had no idea about how things worked, so I spent my time reading and learning everything I could. I didn't agree with everything, but I learned it. By the time I started posting I had a good feel for the community.

On the other end of the scale there are people that come here thinking they know everything to the competitive scene and discuss their proposed changes to us.
Yeah, I did the same thing on my first account. I kinda poked around on the Mario board for a little while and was impressed by all the new techniques I didn't know about. The first thing I did was learn to wavedash.

I practiced until I was decent at it and tried to start applying it to different techniques, but I started realizing that I wasn't really having as much fun anymore, so I just went back to my old way of playing.

Then stop trying to change other people's minds already. If you admit yourself that you're debating with no experience or knowledge of the community or competitive play, then don't debate it at all.

You don't decide what they think is the "spirit of the game" for them either.
I don't think the point should be ARGUED, but that doesn't mean that it isn't worth discussing and talking about. I joined this conversation because there aren't many casual players to talk about what their thoughts are in this thread.

Just try to deal with a different perspective without blowing a gasket.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
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I practiced until I was decent at it and tried to start applying it to different techniques, but I started realizing that I wasn't really having as much fun anymore, so I just went back to my old way of playing.
But your old way of playing was against computers :-(. If you had a consistent group of people to play with that were interested in improving then you would have probably had a whole lot of fun. All in all, it seems that you just got screwed when it comes to people to play with.
 

EDreams

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You want a casual player? Fine. I only play with my brother, I don't wavedash or shffl or do anything even remotely basic, I don't play with items simply as a result of hating them, I play on every stage just because. I main Ice Climbers and I can't even desync.

But I know that tournament rules were decided for a reason after years of discussion. I know I have no experience with the tournament scene and trying to change it would be foolhardy because of that. I know how to agree to disagree based on the fact I have no knowledge, and they do, and I can understand they have logical and factually-based reasoning for their decisions.

You can't. You don't.
 

autobzooty

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Hi guys, how's it going?
But your old way of playing was against computers :-(. If you had a consistent group of people to play with that were interested in improving then you would have probably had a whole lot of fun. All in all, it seems that you just got screwed when it comes to people to play with.
Yeah, I kinda did. I was really looking forward to Brawl's online component so that I could finally play against some decent opponents, but it seems that 1v1 matches online are a no-go. I just hope they made better AI for Brawl.

I had a real match just once, though. I played Mario and my opponent played as Fox. He insisted that we had one CPU opponent for a 1v1v1 match or he would stand no chance. So the CPU was Marth.

We played Hyrule Temple and his strategy was to run away and let Marth fight me. Then after I was weak and had just a few stocks left, he would go in for the kill.

But in the end, I beat Marth and still managed to beat him. It felt good to win a real match for once (especially against odds like that), but I think that after a while of losing to cheap tactics like that it would get frustrating. Although, frustration is an important part of the game, I guess.


What was my point again?


You want a casual player? Fine. I only play with my brother, I don't wavedash or shffl or do anything even remotely basic, I don't play with items simply as a result of hating them, I play on every stage just because. I main Ice Climbers and I can't even desync.

But I know that tournament rules were decided for a reason after years of discussion. I know I have no experience with the tournament scene and trying to change it would be foolhardy because of that. I know how to agree to disagree based on the fact I have no knowledge, and they do, and I can understand they have logical and factually-based reasoning for their decisions.

You can't. You don't.
Listen, I know why they made the rules for tournaments, alright? I have a vast understanding of the way the world works and why people don't want unpredictability in their tournaments. Don't shove words down my throat and put yourself above me for being such an understanding guy.

I'm not trying to change the way the world works, but why not say an idea I think is neat? I'm not an idiot, and I'm sick of arguing with you, so just bugger off, alright?
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
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Yeah, I kinda did. I was really looking forward to Brawl's online component so that I could finally play against some decent opponents, but it seems that 1v1 matches online are a no-go. I just hope they made better AI for Brawl.
There will be 1v1 online through friend codes! You can meet all sorts of people on this site and get friend codes. You will be able to find people around your skill, below it, and above it more than likely. It's gonna be pretty sweet.
But in the end, I beat Marth and still managed to beat him. It felt good to win a real match for once (especially against odds like that), but I think that after a while of losing to cheap tactics like that it would get frustrating. Although, frustration is an important part of the game, I guess.
For starters, that guy is a douche. People can claim all they want about lame strategies, but that takes the cake. Even with some of the lame things people do, it's still hella fun for me and pretty much everyone else. Also, I don't know of anyone who pulls lame crap like that in a friendly match.
 

autobzooty

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Hi guys, how's it going?
There will be 1v1 online through friend codes! You can meet all sorts of people on this site and get friend codes. You will be able to find people around your skill, below it, and above it more than likely. It's gonna be pretty sweet.

For starters, that guy is a douche. People can claim all they want about lame strategies, but that takes the cake. Even with some of the lame things people do, it's still hella fun for me and pretty much everyone else. Also, I don't know of anyone who pulls lame crap like that in a friendly match.
Yeah, I'm hoping to get some friend codes from this place when the game launches, and I may even enter a tournament or two once I get my sealegs. I have high hopes for this game.

And, by the way, thanks for being a friendly face.
 

TheMagicalKuja

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How is wavedashing not fun? : O

It's second only to wavelanding for fun things to do between stocks.
Random question, Ankoku: Do you like SUPPATENKO?!

I'm gonna side with MookieRah in regards to knowledge, and take a leaf from 4chan, a.k.a cesspool of the internet. Lurk moar. Read a lot, and understand everything. IT HELPS. Trust me on this, you will be less of a fool.
 

Whirling Birdo

Smash Rookie
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Dec 5, 2007
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Yeah, well I'm a not very skilled casual player who doesn't care how anyone plays as long as they have fun.

Oh yeah I went there................
 

edde

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couldnt agree more

i know to do most of the advanced techniques, and i use in my games wavedash, shhfl (short hop fast fall l cancell, i just cant type the name right), edge jumping, and im quite ok at edge teching... what i dont agree with you is that you say hyrule temple sucks... i find it a pretty cool stage, i mean. i neve rplay on it to define fights like to find out whose best among my friends or so, i just like to use the stage some times to have fun or so


well, besides that, i can feel you, one f these days ifound a post like... ike is awesome, he sucks but he is awesome for casual play... i really didnt see much the point... what makes casual play fun is making it more competitive, not using a character that is just slow


now ill be just wondering what will be the glitches/advanced techniques that will define brawl gameplay
 

Metalknux

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I expect this thread to be closed, it's just like every other before it. Now with that out of the way...my response!

Yes, sadly I read through all of that so I'll just respond to a few excerpts I found most thralling.

1. "Their "arguments" normally focus on some abstract "way the game was meant to be played", which we all know actually means "way I want to play the game". To this I can only say, who killed Sakurai and made YOU king?"

SSBM in tournaments is usually played without items. The game itself was originally intended by Our Lord God Sakurai Himself to be played with items, if not; originally they would not have been there. To that I can only say, nobody killed Sakurai, he's still the king, and he says the game was originally intended to be played with items, no matter what you possibly say about the game being better for tournaments without items, no discussion. The game however is still intended as well to be played without items with the emergence of the tourney scene, it still stands that the people who you perceive to be "whining" are only speaking a truth no matter how much they use it to cover whatever ineptitude you see from them.

2. "With the exception of a few rare douche bags the whole notion of elitism is false, most advanced players would be more than happy to explain advanced techniques to you."

You confirm in this quote of yours elitist douchebags exist with "With the exception of a few rare". Thusly because of this the notion of elitism in the Smash community is not false and is a very real thing, no matter how few or many people are such. I will also add my two cents and now label you an elitist because of your quote outlined in number 2. I will also add that just the same there are elitists in Smash, so as well are there those you call whiny and annoying noobs who particularly apparently don't want to try and "embetter" themselves. We are at a cross roads now, do you believe there to be more whiny annoying noobs than there are elitist douchebags, or do you think there are just about the same number of them, or are there less? Depending on your answer, you will either have had no reason to start this thread, for example, if there are as many annoying whiny noobs as there are elitists, why post at all, I could BEGIN to understand why you would post if there were more annoying whiny noobs; but I do not believe there are. "So why are there so many people that think tournaments are the scourge of Smash?", well, friend; there aren't that many people that think tournaments are the scourge of Smash. I'll give a humble guess and say there are about as many as there are elitist douchebags.

3. "Just don't be surprised when no one shows up, because virtually no one wants to play competitively with items. "

See kids here is an example of elitism, "no one wants to play competitively with items". My friend and I always play with items on Battlefield, and we are much better than your average run off the mill "noob". And I still win most my battles bar none, predominantly, I have been winning much more than he, items don't seem to be helping him -too- much. When you say such a thing with an absolute terminology such as "no one" you effectively try to say literally no one does, while I, a well skilled Smasher, do. I am humble and never would do such, and you are not, you are elitist.

4. "Then one day, they come up against someone using advanced techniques with tournament rules, get destroyed, then become angry and bitter towards tournament rules and techniques like wave dashing."

It seems that the whiny annoying noobs have made you become angry and bitter towards not only them but casual yet skilled players such as me, as I have found quite a few offensive and frankly, annoying and elitist sounding comments from you. Sorry dude but that's just the way it is.

5. " Nothing, the anti-competitive crowd just doesn't like the fact that some people are better than them at the game"

You basically just said "This person doesn't like me because I'm better than them.". I will now give you a situation in...lets say, school, where this would conceivably be said. Okay, now take into your mind a popular, and arguably snobby and pretentious cheerleader, looking at a gothic but deep down nice kid. She will say "That kid doesn't like me because I'm better than them." And the gothic kid who his nice and doesn't judge on appearances alone will hear this, and finally think; with the evidence at hand... "What a pretentious elitist *****.". Basically what I'm trying to say is, don't let other people's angers(the idiots) or ways(actual casual nice players) make you ever say such a thing, because once you do; you WILL become that thing.

Any matter, in closing...I love Hyrule Temple. Once in Final Battle I was fighting my friend as Pichu and he was Fox, I had picked up a bob-omb, faked as if to throw it at him and he like an idiot freaked, turned reflecter on. L-canceled my jump, threw the bob-omb into the air, dash grabbed him out of his reflector, did Pichu's back throw, and ended up throwing him down into the falling bob-omb. Epic, you can't get that kind of stuff in Tournaments. Also, mods, I ask you deep from my heart like the creator did and close this thread, it's the same as every other one before it ever.

"Please get this stickyed, and please don't close this, it is incredibly important."

I mean really...sticky?!...wow.
Lol. I thought you knew what you were talking about until you said you L-canceled a jump. You can't cancel jumps, you cancel(reduce lag from) aerial attacks.

Oh yeah, and topic creator, most casuals don't like tournaments because they "don't use the game to its full potential".

I'm also getting tired of people saying, "Items are in the game, that's how he intends for you to play," and others saying "There's an item switch, they're obviously supposed to be off," I'm pretty sure he intends for you to play however the hell you want to, and doesn't give a **** whether items are on or off.
 

AllanT

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Oct 19, 2007
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you know this reminds me of something i heard earlier- wifi tournaments. with anyone it wouldn't work at all, and nobody does time matches anyway.

i've personally never been to a tourney so i cant really say anything about them, i just know that casual players will like to play casually.
 

TheBuzzSaw

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As far as the whole "wavedashing is a glitch" argument goes, I think we're all arguing based on our own definitions of what a glitch actually is. I say it's a glitch definitively because wavedashing meets my definition of a glitch to the letter. But if you asked me to verbalize my definition of a glitch, I probably couldn't because, A) The very idea of attempting that makes me weary, and B) It's more of an idea than it is a magic definition that will make everything clear to everyone.
This is the problem right here. You think that the definition is subjective and open to debate when it really is not. "Glitch" has a concrete definition in the world of software, and if you would just read my blog without thinking "this guy thinks he's all bad writing his own blog" you would understand that. The wavedash is a connected series of legitimate events. There is no glitch anywhere in the process!
 

autobzooty

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Hi guys, how's it going?
This is the problem right here. You think that the definition is subjective and open to debate when it really is not. "Glitch" has a concrete definition in the world of software, and if you would just read my blog without thinking "this guy thinks he's all bad writing his own blog" you would understand that. The wavedash is a connected series of legitimate events. There is no glitch anywhere in the process!
I don't trust people who cite themselves as a source.
 

The Hypnotist

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The thing is, I don't play to win. I play for fun. I think that this is where casuals and competitive players really disconnect from each others' thought processes.

For example, I don't think wavedashing is fun. Like I said, I think it ruins the spirit of the game.


Call me a disrupter, but there doesn't seem to be loads of people here to represent people like me.
You are aware you can win and have fun. You play computers, but odds are you don't play cruel melee because you have to win. Why do you think wavedashing ruins the spirit of the game, I'm just curious.

I don't play in tournaments because people wavedash. I play against CPUs because I'm homeschooled and don't have a great deal of people to play the game with. It's pretty pathetic, but it's true. All these things together help me define the spirit of the game, and no one can change my mind.
So in Brawl, you'll play against me via Wifi? If not, why not?
 

The Hypnotist

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This is the problem right here. You think that the definition is subjective and open to debate when it really is not. "Glitch" has a concrete definition in the world of software, and if you would just read my blog without thinking "this guy thinks he's all bad writing his own blog" you would understand that. The wavedash is a connected series of legitimate events. There is no glitch anywhere in the process!
Buzz, I'll say it again, I know you're right, you know you're right. Anyone who knows how to listen and read know your right, but he just doesn't want to read so please don't waste your time. Besides it's off topic.
 

TheBuzzSaw

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Buzz, I'll say it again, I know you're right, you know you're right. Anyone who knows how to listen and read know your right, but he just doesn't want to read so please don't waste your time. Besides it's off topic.
Yes, Captain!
 

autobzooty

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Mar 19, 2007
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Hi guys, how's it going?
You are aware you can win and have fun. You play computers, but odds are you don't play cruel melee because you have to win. Why do you think wavedashing ruins the spirit of the game, I'm just curious.



So in Brawl, you'll play against me via Wifi? If not, why not?
I play cruel Melee from time to time, but usually I get frustrated and quit. :p

As far as the "spirit of the game" goes, it's a bit abstract and hard to explain. Like most moves in brawl, this one is physically impossible, but it's impossible in a different way, understand? It just doesn't make sense in the context of the game. Yeah, Mario can shoot fire out of his hands, but why the heck is he sliding backward across the stage without moving his feet?

That's the best explanation I can come up with.



And I'd love to play you over WiFi, but you're probably way better than me because I only play CPUs.
 

Uchiharakiri

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Dec 23, 2005
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Lol. I thought you knew what you were talking about until you said you L-canceled a jump. You can't cancel jumps, you cancel(reduce lag from) aerial attacks.

Oh yeah, and topic creator, most casuals don't like tournaments because they "don't use the game to its full potential".

I'm also getting tired of people saying, "Items are in the game, that's how he intends for you to play," and others saying "There's an item switch, they're obviously supposed to be off," I'm pretty sure he intends for you to play however the hell you want to, and doesn't give a **** whether items are on or off.
That is old, it's also been clarified subsequently on later pages, I even left the original unedited out of goodwill, sadly we see what that brings.
 

WoapGang

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This is the problem right here. You think that the definition is subjective and open to debate when it really is not. "Glitch" has a concrete definition in the world of software, and if you would just read my blog without thinking "this guy thinks he's all bad writing his own blog" you would understand that. The wavedash is a connected series of legitimate events. There is no glitch anywhere in the process!
So if we go by what your saying the Black Hole isn't a Glitch either is it? or the Green Shell 999% Damage thing. It would all technically be a "connected series" of events also would it not?
 

Metalknux

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I know this "wavedashing, glitch or not" topic has pretty much already been addressed, but I will attempt to put it in simple terms. Wavedashing is not a glitch. The game developers realized that something had to happen when you airdodge into the ground, because if you abruptly cancelled your momentum just by touching the ground, it wouldn't be very realistic. So they just made you slide. I'm assuming they expected it to be something that happens every once in a while, and isn't very conspicuous or battle-changing. Then pros found a different approach. They short hopped and then performed this maneuver, and did it pretty fast so all you see is a slide. They're doing something that was intended, just really fast. That doesn't make it a glitch.

Edit:
That is old, it's also been clarified subsequently on later pages, I even left the original unedited out of goodwill, sadly we see what that brings.
Please just bypass what I posted earlier. That was before I read the rest of the thread.
 

The Hypnotist

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Yes, Captain!
Sorry, I'm not trying to come off as assertive or anything. It's just why wasye your time, everyone who knows how to participate in a thread knows your right. The people that can read. Your blog is great, and everyone who reads it knows that, just don't waste your time with some people, or make a thread about wavedashing... again.
 

MookieRah

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Umeå, Sweden
Yeah, I'm hoping to get some friend codes from this place when the game launches, and I may even enter a tournament or two once I get my sealegs. I have high hopes for this game.

And, by the way, thanks for being a friendly face.
Sounds awesome. Good luck on your internet adventures. Also, don't be a stranger when the game comes out, toss me a friend code when the time comes.
 

SmashBro99

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,199
Location
CT.
3DS FC
4957-2747-2945
How will this effect online play? I'm not turning off items because some people don't like the randomness/fun in the game. =\

For the record I DO play competetively, but I like to play casual too.

But if you want a fighting game with no items or anything to take away from your "m4d sk1lls", go play an actual fighter.
 

EDreams

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
330
Items aren't the only thing that separates Smash Bros from a traditional fighter. Not even close.
 

The Hypnotist

Smash Lord
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,435
Location
Pinole, California (The Bay Area)
I play cruel Melee from time to time, but usually I get frustrated and quit. :p

As far as the "spirit of the game" goes, it's a bit abstract and hard to explain. Like most moves in brawl, this one is physically impossible, but it's impossible in a different way, understand? It just doesn't make sense in the context of the game. Yeah, Mario can shoot fire out of his hands, but why the heck is he sliding backward across the stage without moving his feet?

That's the best explanation I can come up with.



And I'd love to play you over WiFi, but you're probably way better than me because I only play CPUs.
You just have to win. That's why you don't play cruel melee. And you think we're competitive. We're not, you are. I would LOVE to play gimpyfish, or M2K, or Chu Dat, even though I'd get owned, but it'd be fun(ny). You get frusterated.

I understand your problem with wavedashing, even though it is a terrible arguement IMO.

I'm curious, what do you think about edge hogging (grabbing the edge so if someone is recovering they can't grab it)? Chain Throwing (Throwing, and before they can do anything, grab and throw them again... repeat)? Dash Dancing (running back and forth in place)? Short Hop Lasers?

Your are very unopen, or you just have a bias against wavedashing for some reason (most likely you can't do it, or you don't know what it really is).

BTW, in Melee who do you main, personally I play as Peach and the Ice Climbers (and a bit of Marth).

And I'm looking forward to playing you online someday.
 

autobzooty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
244
Location
Hi guys, how's it going?
You just have to win. That's why you don't play cruel melee. And you think we're competitive. We're not, you are. I would LOVE to play gimpyfish, or M2K, or Chu Dat, even though I'd get owned, but it'd be fun(ny). You get frusterated.

I understand your problem with wavedashing, even though it is a terrible arguement IMO.

I'm curious, what do you think about edge hogging (grabbing the edge so if someone is recovering they can't grab it)? Chain Throwing (Throwing, and before they can do anything, grab and throw them again... repeat)? Dash Dancing (running back and forth in place)? Short Hop Lasers?

Your are very unopen, or you just have a bias against wavedashing for some reason (most likely you can't do it, or you don't know what it really is).

BTW, in Melee who do you main, personally I play as Peach and the Ice Climbers (and a bit of Marth).

And I'm looking forward to playing you online someday.
Well I don't mind losing if I stand some sort of chance. I'm not gonna subject myself to defeat over and over at the hands of cruel melee, but I don't mind losing a match if it's a close one. Also it's a little different when you're playing a human opponent. It's more of a sport. Cruel Melee isn't really the same as fighting one of the pros at smashboards. Even i would like to try that (once or twice, mindyou).

i even thought it would be a cool idea to have computer AI that is perfect. i.e. perfect blocks, perfect dodge, perfect attacks, perfect timing. I just think it'd be fun to see how long you can last. but that too would need to be done in controlled doses.


And yes, I do know how to wavedash. I learned it, got decent at it, and quit because I didn't like it.

As for the other techniques...
Edgehogging is fair I think. I don't do it, myself, but I don't have a huge problem with it.

Chainthrowing is okay now and again, but if it's used constantly it get's a little annoying, don't you think?

I wasn't aware that dash-dancing had a practical application. I think it's in the same category of techniques as wavedashing just because it looks so unnatural, but seeing as there's no way to use it efficiently I don't think it's a big deal. I do it while I'm waiting for the computer to respawn. Heck, I even wavedash while I wait for the computer to respawn sometimes.

I don't really have an opinion on short hop lazers because i've never been in a match where it was used. I assume it's just fox or falco hopping while they shoot so they can keep moving? sounds fair to me.




I main with Mario. I understand he's a bit of an underdog as far as the tier list is concerned (I've never seen the official tier list, I only know the Fox and falco are on top), but I enjoy playing as him. We have a bit of a history together, you see.
 

5150

Banned via Administration
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
2,386
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Madison, WI
Well I don't mind losing if I stand some sort of chance. I'm not gonna subject myself to defeat over and over at the hands of cruel melee, but I don't mind losing a match if it's a close one. Also it's a little different when you're playing a human opponent. It's more of a sport. Cruel Melee isn't really the same as fighting one of the pros at smashboards. Even i would like to try that (once or twice, mindyou).

i even thought it would be a cool idea to have computer AI that is perfect. i.e. perfect blocks, perfect dodge, perfect attacks, perfect timing. I just think it'd be fun to see how long you can last. but that too would need to be done in controlled doses.


And yes, I do know how to wavedash. I learned it, got decent at it, and quit because I didn't like it.

As for the other techniques...
Edgehogging is fair I think. I don't do it, myself, but I don't have a huge problem with it.

Chainthrowing is okay now and again, but if it's used constantly it get's a little annoying, don't you think?

I wasn't aware that dash-dancing had a practical application. I think it's in the same category of techniques as wavedashing just because it looks so unnatural, but seeing as there's no way to use it efficiently I don't think it's a big deal. I do it while I'm waiting for the computer to respawn. Heck, I even wavedash while I wait for the computer to respawn sometimes.

I don't really have an opinion on short hop lazers because i've never been in a match where it was used. I assume it's just fox or falco hopping while they shoot so they can keep moving? sounds fair to me.




I main with Mario. I understand he's a bit of an underdog as far as the tier list is concerned (I've never seen the official tier list, I only know the Fox and falco are on top), but I enjoy playing as him. We have a bit of a history together, you see.
******** gg
 

The Hypnotist

Smash Lord
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,435
Location
Pinole, California (The Bay Area)
Well I don't mind losing if I stand some sort of chance. I'm not gonna subject myself to defeat over and over at the hands of cruel melee, but I don't mind losing a match if it's a close one. Also it's a little different when you're playing a human opponent. It's more of a sport. Cruel Melee isn't really the same as fighting one of the pros at smashboards. Even i would like to try that (once or twice, mindyou).

i even thought it would be a cool idea to have computer AI that is perfect. i.e. perfect blocks, perfect dodge, perfect attacks, perfect timing. I just think it'd be fun to see how long you can last. but that too would need to be done in controlled doses.


And yes, I do know how to wavedash. I learned it, got decent at it, and quit because I didn't like it.
What the hell does "got decent" mean?

As for the other techniques...
Edgehogging is fair I think. I don't do it, myself, but I don't have a huge problem with it.

Chainthrowing is okay now and again, but if it's used constantly it get's a little annoying, don't you think?
Not if you know how to DI.

I wasn't aware that dash-dancing had a practical application.
Mind Games.

I think it's in the same category of techniques as wavedashing just because it looks so unnatural, but seeing as there's no way to use it efficiently I don't think it's a big deal. I do it while I'm waiting for the computer to respawn. Heck, I even wavedash while I wait for the computer to respawn sometimes.

I don't really have an opinion on short hop lazers because i've never been in a match where it was used. I assume it's just fox or falco hopping while they shoot so they can keep moving? sounds fair to me.
Your right about what SHLing is. But it's very very good., much more important than wavedashing! It means Falco can shoot you (and stun you) while moving closer to you. Which means it's easy for him to approch you and follow up with anything.


I main with Mario. I understand he's a bit of an underdog as far as the tier list is concerned
The tier list doesn't effect you at all considering your skill level (or mine). Eggz plays as Mario and I play as Peach, Peach is way better than Mario according to the list but Eggz would 4-Stock me.

(I've never seen the official tier list, I only know the Fox and falco are on top), but I enjoy playing as him. We have a bit of a history together, you see.
Your way of playing is much more repitive than our way. We can do so much more, so many options. You should watch some professional matches, I think you'd be impressed. You like Mario, go and youtube "the cape" and "eggz".
 

autobzooty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
244
Location
Hi guys, how's it going?
Your way of playing is much more repitive than our way. We can do so much more, so many options. You should watch some professional matches, I think you'd be impressed. You like Mario, go and youtube "the cape" and "eggz".
Got decent means that I first learned how to wavedash and waveland consistently without screwing it up. then i started to learn how to actually use it, like wavedashing while attacking. i didn't get very good at that before i decided to stop.



I've chaingrabbed computers and they just sit there and take it. maybe it's not so one-sided when you use it on a real person? i wouldn't know, i was a little curious, actually.




mind games dont work on computers. :p



i would probably use the cape on the lasers if that started happening, but maybe it's not so easy to stop.


I've actually watched a lot of pro mario matches and combo videos. it was one of the first things i started looking at on these boards when i started a few years ago. i'm trying to learn some of their techniques and i am making a bit of progress lately, mostly in the area of short-hopping into a combo starter. other than that, when i'm looking for a challenge i fight a level 9 fox and a level 9 falco which is good for training my instincts.


I was actually hoping to exchange friend codes with a mario player when brawl comes out so that i could get some pointers to improve my game.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
Does "the cape" still even play? I am pretty sure that eggz does, but I haven't heard from cape since... I dunno, it's been over a year.
I wasn't aware that dash-dancing had a practical application.
Dash dancing is sooooo underrated. I remember back in the day when I didn't do it cause I felt the same way. Honestly, you don't really know how useful it is till you get very good at it, and then it just clicks one day. Trust me, it's very good, and you can use it to bait, confuse, and make it seem like you are actually about to do something when you are really just waiting for them to make a move. That is also just the tip of the ice burg too.
I've chaingrabbed computers and they just sit there and take it. maybe it's not so one-sided when you use it on a real person? i wouldn't know, i was a little curious, actually.
Chain grabbing isn't a big deal anymore cause of the fact that everyone knows how to DI properly now. It's dropped in effectiveness quite a bit. It's still good though, don't get me wrong.
i would probably use the cape on the lasers if that started happening, but maybe it's not so easy to stop.
Falco players will work around it. The cape has a lot of lag so they could bait you into using the cape and go in for an attack or something. You just have to sorta wing it in those situations.
 

autobzooty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
244
Location
Hi guys, how's it going?
Does "the cape" still even play? I am pretty sure that eggz does, but I haven't heard from cape since... I dunno, it's been over a year.
Dash dancing is sooooo underrated. I remember back in the day when I didn't do it cause I felt the same way. Honestly, you don't really know how useful it is till you get very good at it, and then it just clicks one day. Trust me, it's very good, and you can use it to bait, confuse, and make it seem like you are actually about to do something when you are really just waiting for them to make a move. That is also just the tip of the ice burg too.

Chain grabbing isn't a big deal anymore cause of the fact that everyone knows how to DI properly now. It's dropped in effectiveness quite a bit. It's still good though, don't get me wrong.

Falco players will work around it. The cape has a lot of lag so they could bait you into using the cape and go in for an attack or something. You just have to sorta wing it in those situations.
Hahaha, now I really wanna play a human opponent.
 

The Hypnotist

Smash Lord
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,435
Location
Pinole, California (The Bay Area)
Mookie beat me to it. And I don't know if THE CAPE still plays, but then again, we still all watch Mike G videos.

Chain throwing a human is nothing like like a CPU.

You should get "good" at wavedashing, and then quit. It's pretty hard.

And if you were playing a Falco the cape would be way to slow to reflect anything.

And bro, you should check out Dr. Mario. Watch some good pros, seriously, youtube The Cape, Eggz, Bob$.

And I'm also curious what do you think about teching? Does that look "unnatural"? Or powersheilding?
 
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